Does anybody else think that Bret was in the wrong for Montreal.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Bret thought it was a lame idea all meant for one moment where Owen stumbles once arriving in the ring. I can see why he'd lambast the reason for Owens untimely demise, but I dont know that he outright blamed Vince. I'm sure he figured they were careless a bit and was angered by this. Totally justifiable, but it's not like he pursued Vince with owens death over his head.
He just supported Martha.

[Scott Delaney]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Sadly, that argument held more footing than your original; pointlessness.

So in other words, Kane Knight didn't screw Scott Delaney. Scott Delaney screwed Scott Delaney.

Don't worry though - if you ever step foot in my household, my parents will boo you out of the building!

[McLegend]

O not the Bret Hart didn't draw line. Bret Hart was a draw. Unless you are Jeff Jarrett you don't win a title five times without being a draw.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Originally Posted by Scott Delaney Then why didn't Flair say something like, "I hope my kid grows up to be like HBK and HHH one day?" Why do you automatically assume that Flair is sucking up to the kliq when he bashes Bret Hart? Does it not occur to you that the man may actually have a point? Threat Fart DID NOT draw worth a dime. That's a FACT.

Right, when Flair starts selling out 82,000 seat arenas and working in front of crowds like the wwe always did, as compared to most of the times when Flair was champ working in the nwa, then maybe Flair can talk about that and sound credible.
Bret was a surefire WORLDWIDE champion. The guy was immensely over, not just in the us, but everywhere else, and that is why the wwe was pretty damn succesful and huge in other parts of the world, and guess what, it was the Hitman that was the featured star for these tours. TV ratings and ppv draws arent the only thing you go by, as the entire business was in a funk back then for those stats. How can you blame Bret when he's the one stuck wrestling Lafitte and Isaac Yankem?

[McLegend]

Delany, we don't see eye to eye on things, but I think you are an excellent poster. Keep up the good work

[Scott Delaney]

Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o. I'm sure he figured they were careless a bit and was angered by this. Totally justifiable, but it's not like he pursued Vince with owens death over his head.

Did Bret ever apologize for his actions? No. And yet this is the same guy that cries because HBK never apologized to him.


The bottom line is this. Bret is not Mohandas Ghandi.....regardless of how he tries to portray himself to other Canadians. Bret isn't a 100% dick like Vince McMahon, but he's no saint either.

In terms of selfishness, Bret ranks right up there with HBK, Hulk Hogan, Triple H, etc.

HBK said it best.


"Bret Hart claims to stand for some moral fiber that doesn't exist in his real world....yet he stands in judgment of others."


Those poignant words from Shawn are more damaging to Bret than any Sweet Chin Music, Sharpshooter, kick to the head, or screw job could ever do.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Originally Posted by legend O not the Bret Hart didn't draw line. Bret Hart was a draw. Unless you are Jeff Jarrett you don't win a title five times without being a draw.

Exactly. The champs at the time in the mid 90's were all draws, as they were the one's drawing as best as they could with what was possible back then.
The business fluctuates, and basically, you see wrestling as a whole lose and gain popularity, mostly due to the product, and not just based solely on who is the champ. No man will draw Attitude type numbers if the product and characters are horrid.

[Scott Delaney]

Originally Posted by legend Delany, we don't see eye to eye on things, but I think you are an excellent poster. Keep up the good work

thank-you legend.

Speaking of legends.....

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Scott Delaney So in other words, Kane Knight didn't screw Scott Delaney. Scott Delaney screwed Scott Delaney. Don't worry though - if you ever step foot in my household, my parents will boo you out of the building!

It'd be funnier if you had something you were actually debating.

[Zen v.W.o.]

Originally Posted by Scott Delaney Did Bret ever apologize for his actions? No. And yet this is the same guy that cries because HBK never apologized to him. The bottom line is this. Bret is not Mohandas Ghandi.....regardless of how he tries to portray himself to other Canadians. Bret isn't a 100% dick like Vince McMahon, but he's no saint either. In terms of selfishness, Bret ranks right up there with HBK, Hulk Hogan, Triple H, etc. HBK said it best. "Bret Hart claims to stand for some moral fiber that doesn't exist in his real world....yet he stands in judgment of others." Those poignant words from Shawn are more damaging to Bret than any Sweet Chin Music, Sharpshooter, kick to the head, or screw job could ever do.

I dont see what Bret has to apologize for, in relation to the screwjob incident. imo, he did nothing wrong.

Now if you are referring to backstage shit that happened among them throughout 1996 and 97, HBK doesnt apologize for that, and I doubt Bret will either.

[McLegend]

LOL Heyman

[Zen v.W.o.]

Originally Posted by Scott Delaney Zen my dear friend . . . . . . . . . . You have been punk'd! Thanks for keeping it a secret LC. ~Heyman. p.s.

lol, you bitch! I was prepared to battle as long as possible.

[hb2k]

So you're basically implying two things with your post: 1) Wrestling IS real. 2) If Bret Hart jobbed to HBK in Canada, Bret Hart would lose respect amongst Canadian fans.

Did I say wrestling was real? No. I said that you saying Movies and Wrestling have exactly the same rules attatched makes you a fucking goof. Don't put words in my mouth.

I never said Bret would lose the respect of Canadian fans, I said that Canada, for Bret, was the market where he was most effective and most popular, so possibly hurting a good thing business wise made no sense, seeing as he was heading to WCW with that popularity in place.

This is the Sports-ENTERTAINMENT business. Bret "The Hitman" Hart is a wrestling CHARACTER.

No shit! You fail to realise you're own point - it's a character in a business that Bret felt he had to protect, because the character, in this business, is what makes him money.

[Just John]

Yeah, but Bret Gave Shawn a hell of a lotta shit backstage WAY before the incident

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Scott Delaney Bret complaining that he didn't want to lose the belt to HBK in Canada because he's a hero there, would be the same as Mel Gibson's Braveheart character stating that he didn't want to die in Scotland, because he's a hero there.

Mel Gibson's braveheart character? You fucking idiot!

The reason why it's constantly brought up in Canada, is because Canadian marks like Zen v.W.o and Rob can't let go of their ridiculous deep rooted grudge. The WWE play upon it. Outside of Canada, the screwjob is rarely ever brought up.

I'm not Canadian. And it is very much brought up on outside Canada. Every time Vince brings it up, it causes worldwide conversation.

[hb2k]

And Shawn was a total dick, what's that gotta do with anything?

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Scott Delaney It comes up for 3 reasons, and 3 reasons only: 1) Bret Hart holds a deep grudge, and can't get over something that happened 8 years ago. 2) Some Canadian fans like to cheer "You Screwed Bret!" chants at live events because its fashionable, while others like The avenger, Zen v.W.o., and Rob are grudge carrying goof balls themselves..which is why they relate so well to Threat Fart. 3) Vince McMahon knows that any Bret Hart reference will garner fan interest. Hence, Vince continues to bring up the Montreal Screw job in certain areas, because it garners great heat.

You are seriously mentally ill. Although I shouldn't be arguing with people who play fake internet characters on message boards so I blame myself really.

1- Bret has mentioned a ton of times he doesn't hold a grudge.

2- Again, I'm not Canadian. Never cheered "you screwed Bret" at a WWE show either.

3-He should be embarrassed that the most popular guy in the WWE today is a 48 year old who doesn't even work for them any more and hasn't had a match for the company in 9 years.

And did you know that Bret Hart wanted to do his DVD without any mention of Montreal? Guys like Dave Meltzer, Paul Jay (Wrestling With Shadows) and Carl DeMarco (WWE Canada) had to convince Bret to even do the project with Montreal being mentioned since he was so insistant on it not being in the DVD that he was refusing to do it if it was mentioned.

And if you watched the DVD, you'd know he is clearly over Montreal. And if you haven't then check this - Bret Hart is a 48 year old man who has had 8 concussions in 3 weeks which ended his career. He divorced his wife. He then lost his closest brother in a tragic accident he shouldn't have even been doing. Then he lost both his parents and broke away from his own family. Then he had a stroke which doctors told him he would struggle to walk again. He doesn't watch wrestling anymore. He has a new wife and moved out of North America and has absolutely ZERO interest playing a fake wrestling character again. If he had interest, he'd have been on WWE TV years ago. And he still only speaks of Montreal when people bring it up to him (and even then it's as brief as it can be).

Yeah he needs to get over Montreal though

As for him taking being a hero seriously. Fair play to him. It's about time some people in the public eye remembered kids look up to them.

[hb2k]

Yeh, I never got why people knocked a guy for taking that role seriously, when people get ragged on hard if kids look up to them and they're drugged up losers in reality...

[Just John]

Shawn says in his book that Vince wanted to take the blame for it, and was kinda using Shawn for bait, Shawn knew about it, and kinda helped Vince slightly. But then again leading up to the event, Bret was being VERY unprofessionable and was owed it. And Shawn being a christian I dont think he'd lie, he said that when he told Bret he lied, but thats the first time he ever had.

Either way, its over with, whats happened has happened and Bret was going to WCW anyway so it doesnt make a major difference.

[hb2k]

And Shawn being a christian I dont think he'd lie

LMFAO

I'm a huge Shawn fan, but don't believe much of what he says in his book. He also says that Bret wasn't in the Gorilla position after Mania 12. The Bret DVD shows that...

a) Shawn told Hebner to tell Bret to "get the fuck out the ring, this is my time in here"

b) Bret was filmed going straight from the ring to the locker room. Which means either Bret was pissed at what Shawn said and was legit ticked off by that, or, more likely, he was filmed going back intentionally for the storyline, and he wasn't supposed to be in the Gorilla position.

Only one example there...

[Just John]

Mabye you're right, I mean, the book is the only full account of things Ive heard about the Montreal Screwjob, and so its the only thing I can really relate to for this, but either way, like I said its all over and done with now. It doesnt matter whether Shawn screwed Bret, Vince screwed bret, or Bret screwed Bret, Bret got screwed and whether he had it coming or not is the controversy. But its over with now and I guess not much can be done.

[Nowhere Man]

Originally Posted by Scott Delaney How about the fact that after Owen's death, Bret actually had the audacity to use Owen's death to further lambast Vince...for his own selfish reasons.

So being angry at a man whose hairbrained idea for a stunt got his brother killed is selfish?

[Evolution]

According to Foley's first book, the first thing HBK said when he got backstage after the Montreal match was "There's no way I'm accepting his fucking belt like this!", threw it down and walked to the locker room. HHH picked it up and brought it to the locker room for Shawn. Was Foley lying?

Also, saw a Bret Shoot Interview on TWC a while back, and he was being a complete dick over the Owen incident. He was acting like Vence had pushed Owen off the catwalk or something. Saying things like "Yeah, let's drop little Stephanie or Shane off the roof and see if they continue the show".

Although dropping Stephanie 50 feet is not nessesarily a bad idea, Bret is missing the important part of that Blue Blazer stunt.

Vince had asked Owen if he would mind doing it. Owen said he had no problem with it. With abseiling equipment, you know the risks. Unfortunately, Owen fell victim to them.

P.S. Bret Hart is an over-hyped crybaby pussy. Shawn Michaels is innovative, and puts in 100% wherever he has matches. By the time 1997 came around, Bret was just going through the motions, having the same match day-in, day-out. He has so much in common with Ric Flair in that respect. They could have been great friends if they wren't dicks to each other.

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by Evolution According to Foley's first book, the first thing HBK said when he got backstage after the Montreal match was "There's no way I'm accepting his fucking belt like this!", threw it down and walked to the locker room. HHH picked it up and brought it to the locker room for Shawn. Was Foley lying?

I swear people just get dumber and dumber. No Foley did not lie. That was TRUE. Now ask yourslef, why do you think Shawn screamed that in the locker room? Just think for 1 minute. Answer: Because he was HIDING the fact that he was in on it. It's called "not wanting to be caught." Hence him lying to Bret in the lockeroom.

Originally Posted by Evolution Vince had asked Owen if he would mind doing it. Owen said he had no problem with it. With abseiling equipment, you know the risks. Unfortunately, Owen fell victim to them.

Would like to kow where you heard Owen had no problem with it. Because it's been published in a lot of material that Owen did not want to do the stunt and had a bad feeling about it.

Originally Posted by Evolution P.S. Bret Hart is an over-hyped crybaby pussy. Shawn Michaels is innovative, and puts in 100% wherever he has matches. By the time 1997 came around, Bret was just going through the motions, having the same match day-in, day-out. He has so much in common with Ric Flair in that respect. They could have been great friends if they wren't dicks to each other.

Shut up and quit bringing your personal feelings into a discussion that you started off with "facts." Makes your comments seem less valid.

[McLegend]

Persoanl feelings about who is better shouldn't be brought into this discussion. That is a subject for it's own thread.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by just john And Shawn being a christian I dont think he'd lie

LO f'ing L

That was too funny.

Christians Lie. They Cheat. They Steal. They Murder. They rape. They eat tacos from an off-ramp hobo.

[Kane Knight]

I gotta say, if losing so much of your family to the business that incapacitated you, at the hands of the same folks that screwed you makes you a pussy, we should all definitely aspire to be more like pussies.

I love how people call him a crybaby when he's dealt with more adversity than most folks on this forum ever will, and handled it with more dignity than most ever could.

I know personal feelings aren't really what this thread is about, but jeez. Try not to be so stupid when coming up with excuses to snipe the man. Bret's moved on better than most fans on either side of the debate.

[Scott Delaney]

FACT: Threat "the shitman" Fart acted highly inappropriately when Owen Hart passed away. Not only did he basically accuse Vince McMahon/WWE of killing his brother, but also used Owen's death to further prolong his own agenda (attack Vince, attack the WWE, continue to talk about the screw job, etc.). In a sense, Bret Hart disrespected Owen. Ric Flair says the same thing.


FACT: By refusing to do the job to HBK, Bret basically admitted that two wrongs make a right. HBK refused to job to me, so I'll refuse to job to him. By doing this, Bret proved that he was no better than HBK in terms of moral character. Bret chose NOT to take the high road. He chose to go down to HBK's level. Fact.


FACT: Bret doesn't understand the difference between real life and sports-entertainment. Bret felt that if he jobbed in Canada, he'd lose the respect of Canadian fans. Give me a break. Even if Threat Fart had done the right thing and jobbed cleanly, he'd still be an (overrated) icon in Canada.


FACT: Most of the people who sympathize deeply for Bret 'Ghandi' Hart, are people who are whiners themselves. Think about the type of people that defend Bret on here. Lara Emily, Rob, and Kane Knight are all grudge-carrying whiners who are bitter against the world. They use Bret Hart's screwjob as a way of venting their own personal bitterness in life.

Ever heard the saying, "Birds of a feather stick together?"


FACT: Bret Hart is a very very good wrestler, but he is NOT a great one. As great as his technical ability was, the man had no aerial ability whatsoever. Shawn Michaels on the other hand, did. Big time. Bret Hart could take a medicore wrestler, and make him look like a million bucks. Shawn Michaels on the other hand, could take a piece of shit and make him look like a million bucks.

Bret then has the audacity to accuse HBK of being a clown because he "skins the cat" during his matches, and uses aerial moves. Bret then accuses Flair of using unrealistic moves during his matches, and also claims that he doesn't sell moves well.

Again - a JOKE. It's just another example of Shitman Fart lashing out.


For one thing - this is the SPORTS-ENTERTAINMENT business. Who cares if HBK skins the cat during his matches? Who cares if Flair pretends to get 'knocked out' and falls to the ground?

THE FANS ENJOY IT!


Maybe if Bret actually realized that this is the sports-entertainment business.....a place where showmanship is a positive, he wouldn't sound like a complete tool.


But then again........maybe if Bret realized this was the sports-entertainment business, he wouldn't have thrown such a hissy fit over the idea of jobbing in Canada....in fear of losing the respect of his fans.


FACT: Bret Hart clearly has NOT gotten over the Montreal screw job. Why else would he speak about it in almost every single interview? If he really had gotten over it, don't you think he'd say something like, "You know what......I'd prefer to not talk about Montreal anymore. It happened 8 years ago, and I think we should move forward."


NO! Instead - Bret continues attack Shawn Michaels, etc. in these interviews. That right there is the single greatest proof that Bret Hart has NOT gotten over anything.




-He uses his column in Calgary to basically remind his fans how great he is.

-Bret actually became a bigger icon in Canada from the Montreal Screw job (as sad as this is). Bret has milked it for all its worth (another reason why Threat Fart won't let Montreal go). Bret may never actually bring up the Montreal Screw job in conversations himself, but he jumps at the opportunity to speak about it when he does (knowing that his retarded fan base will do it for him). Again - it's a good business tactic by Brett, but the morality of it is questionable. With this in mind, Bret is NO different from the people that he chastises (Vince, HBK, etc.).



Don't kid yourselves people.

In the late 90's, Bret stated that he would never to business with the WWE ever again.

Fast forward a few years later, and he's creating a DVD with them....for money.


When Bret eventually does decide to step foot within the WWE ring again (and you know it will happen) it won't be for the fans...........it will be for his own ego and his own pay check.


The only way this won't happen, is if Threat Fart decides to hang himself....and join the rest of the Fart Foundation in heaven.

Originally Posted by Kane Knight I love how people call him a crybaby when he's dealt with more adversity than most folks on this forum ever will, and handled it with more dignity than most ever could.

More dignity? Broadcasting his own personal struggles with the rest of the world (for attention and ego) qualifies as dignity?!?!

Please.

Rob 3-He should be embarrassed that the most popular guy in the WWE today is a 48 year old who doesn't even work for them any more and hasn't had a match for the company in 9 years.

Most popular guy in the WWE eh?

I'm sure Mr. Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Austin might have something to say about that.


You Bret Hart marks are so biased in your love for Bret 'Ghandi' Hart, that you fail to see any logic whatsoever.

Ummmmm......uhhhhhhhh......I ummm ya know.......what he said.

[CharismaInjection]

Well, I think Vince & Michaels were sure in their heads that Hart was going to dump the belt in the bin when he got to WCW.

[hb2k]

Bret Hart is a very very good wrestler, but he is NOT a great one. As great as his technical ability was, the man had no aerial ability whatsoever.

I lost all respect for any of your claims right there.

Also, do you really thing "Threat 'Shitman' Fart" is witty? This has gotta be some 11 year old kid with ideas and comments like this...

[Schoenauer]

This "Threat Fart" thing is so first grade humor... I wonder if Scott just hates Canadians because they're better than him.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Schoenauer This "Threat Fart" thing is so first grade humor... I wonder if Scott just hates Canadians because they're better than him.

We are (Hey, if Rob gets to be Canadian, so do I, dammi!)

[The MAC]

EXPLAIN the WM12 thing about bret not being in gorrilla position/.what does that term mean ?

thanks you

[Rob]

Originally Posted by hb2k LMFAO I'm a huge Shawn fan, but don't believe much of what he says in his book. He also says that Bret wasn't in the Gorilla position after Mania 12. The Bret DVD shows that... a) Shawn told Hebner to tell Bret to "get the fuck out the ring, this is my time in here" b) Bret was filmed going straight from the ring to the locker room. Which means either Bret was pissed at what Shawn said and was legit ticked off by that, or, more likely, he was filmed going back intentionally for the storyline, and he wasn't supposed to be in the Gorilla position. Only one example there...

Well they were meant to do an angle where Bret and Shawn would feud so the idea was Bret would leave without showering and not meet with Shawn after the match to build on it. They screwed over Bret again there though because they dropped the angle part and made out Bret is a dick. Dude is hardly gonna go from LA to Calgary still dressed in his wrestling singlet though is he?

And I'm officially ignoring all comments by a certain prick here.

[Scott Delaney]

BUMP!

Seriously - I can't see ANYONE defending Bret Hart after the thorough shit-kicking I gave with my posts.

[Scott Delaney]

If ANYONE on here can successfully negate anything that I said in my last few post (the "Sweet Chin music to Bret Hart fans" post), then I'll concede defeat.

Until that time however - I have ZERO reason to believe that anything I have said in this thread is false.

[Y3J]

ALEAYALEALHLAELALAYELAHALAHA!!!!

[FourFifty]

Everytime an internet fan talks about Montreal and Bret Hart a fairy drops down DEAD!

[Kane Knight]

Captain Dick nor Jesus Christ could not help my faith.