Holy ass, TNA is hard to watch

[McLegend]

good point.

[Volare]

Hatred is right

I guess someone just started watching with TNA and has no Fuckin clue what it's all about.

Plus he's in-love with a Cheap Main Eventer missing his "glory days", and someone who made the biggest mistake of his career *IMO*

[M-A-G]

One thing that bugs me about the whole "Is TNA good?" argument is that when someone starts mentioning the bad things about TNA, someone comes in and gives the defense of "Well, the WWE is doing bad things, too". Of COURSE the WWE is doing bad things and implements elements that suck. No one's talking about the WWE though. The focus is on TNA and why it's been difficult for some viewers to watch. I have yet to enjoy a single TNA event and like I mentioned sometime ago, I actually fell asleep for the first time watching a wrestling show and that show was, you guessed it, iMPACT. No one's saying the WWE is the most awesomest thing in wrestling right now because a thread pointing out the flaws and problems could be posted in a heartbeat. People are just venting their grievances about TNA. I'm sure these people are already familiar with WWE and their negatives so they don't need somebody to point them out in an attempt to defend the negatives of TNA. When you point out to someone that WWE is also doing horrible things that TNA is doing, you're agreeing that TNA is horrible as well and making the case for that person.

[Xero]

Originally Posted by M-A-G One thing that bugs me about the whole "Is TNA good?" argument is that when someone starts mentioning the bad things about TNA, someone comes in and gives the defense of "Well, the WWE is doing bad things, too". Of COURSE the WWE is doing bad things and implements elements that suck. No one's talking about the WWE though. The focus is on TNA and why it's been difficult for some viewers to watch. I have yet to enjoy a single TNA event and like I mentioned sometime ago, I actually fell asleep for the first time watching a wrestling show and that show was, you guessed it, iMPACT. No one's saying the WWE is the most awesomest thing in wrestling right now because a thread pointing out the flaws and problems could be posted in a heartbeat. People are just venting their grievances about TNA. I'm sure these people are already familiar with WWE and their negatives so they don't need somebody to point them out in an attempt to defend the negatives of TNA. When you point out to someone that WWE is also doing horrible things that TNA is doing, you're agreeing that TNA is horrible as well and making the case for that person.

It's usually TNA sMARKS who say WWE is doing bad (unless the WWE was brought up earlier) when someone says something about TNA that they can't defend properly.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by PureHatred The match might be awesome. but by the time the main event rolls around, every conceivable cage spot has been done, a lot of them probably pretty poorly. The whole thing just ends up being pointless, so even if the last mathces ARE great, the interest level has waned. At least for the non-marks.

And even for a lot of the marks. The Mutants in the Impact Zone might get a hardon for "OMG! THEY DI THAT SPOT FOR THE NINTH TIME TNIGHT), but people, normal people, will get bored too.

What this says is "This is all we have."

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 It's usually TNA sMARKS who say WWE is doing bad (unless the WWE was brought up earlier) when someone says something about TNA that they can't defend properly.

Well yeah.

TNA fans can't justify that they're fanboys. That's okay, there are WWE fanboys too. They're like marks on steroids, just like a company likes them: Dumb and rabid.

A lot of these guys worship TNA because it's an alternative. Most of them, as such, cannot actually give you specifics even. Most of the arguments I've had on TNA's own message board don't even bother to bring up either the good wrestlers or the staples: They could go for Daniels, Sabin, Styles, etc. But their defense will always be "Yeah, like your precious WWE is any better?"

The default assumption is that you're a WWE fanboy just because you have problems with TNA. It's like it's a conspiracy--The only reason TNA doesn't have 5.0 ratings is because some "Bad apples" at home don't care enough to watch and everyone else is jjust following along...

They don't want to admit that spots are not enough for most people. They don't want to admit that Jarrett is a severe deterrent. They don't want to admit that TNA makes some seriously shitty booking/purchase decisions. They don't want to admit that most people like drama in their wrestling. They don't want to admit most of these things, because they don't know the product beyond "ZOMG! It's not WWE!" And think everyone'll just jump on the bangwagon because of that alone.

TNA makes some really stupid decisions. And so does WWE. WWE can afford it: They are the alpha male, the leader in ratings, and the watermark of current wrestling entertainment.

People will watch WWE because they've grown up with it, it's been around, and they know the people. They can work in ways TNA cannot, becase they need to establish themselves

Triple H can afford tol hold down talent because he's a name, he makes appearances on Letterman and O'Brien, casual fans are more likely to know him, etc. JJ cannot do the same because he was a midcard jobber who lost to Chyna and hasn't been a household name since...Errr...Line?

Hate to say it, but WWE can afford to give Hogan and Flair title shots. TNA can't afford to give Nash a title shot. And that's not even counting the tricep tear he'd get hoisting the title.

WWE can afford to be a lot dumber, so when they bring this shit up, they lose.

[PureHatred]

Along those lines, people tend to forget that the WWF was doing some stupid things during the Monday Night Wars era, too. But they were better than WCW.

That's it. Be better.

As KK said, TNA is not in a position to make the kind of basic booking mistakes they've made up to this point. Seriously, if you look at them they are a lot like Jim Crockett Productions in that they seem to be "succeeding" despite themselves.

They need to be producing shows that are over-all better than their competition. Not just a PPV with one blow away match and then everything else is crap. Not two decent segments and an hours worth of jobber matches.

I will buy the TNA once I see one show that is top to bottom better than what their competition is producing.

[Xero]

TNA has to stop doing what WCW did. They're bringing in some of the old names who the WWE never thought to re-sign/sign. If they're going to hire big names, spread the fucking money around, don't go throwing million dollar contracts to the first guy you see at an indy event just because they were huge 5 to 10 years ago.

Christian was the only signing (out of him, Sting and Steiner) who they should have signed to a huge contract, and rightfully so. He hasn't been played out to the point that he's a generic huge star, playing their old gimmick/trying to change them to a gimmick that doesn't work because people don't buy them as anything else but what they played when they were huge. That's the key. He isn't a Sting or a Steiner, so while he WAS in the WWE, TNA can take his momentum and make him a real superstar for them.

Steiner and Sting will always be known as the main eventers who used to be in WWE and/or WCW. Christian can be know as the main eventer who made a real name for himself in TNA.

[The One]

To be fair Xero, Steiner has been flawless thus far. And while it's true the best compliment I have heard about him is "He is like he was towards the end of WCW", I can justify them bringing him in because Scott Steiner is very entertaining if done correctly. Given that his time on top of WCW was not all that long (really main eventing for less then a year) and his time in WWE was not all that meaningful...it IS possible, should Steiner stick around for a while, that Big Bad Roiding Daddy could make the most impact and have the most memorable part of his career be in TNA. Much like Jeff Jarrett was a former WCW World Champion and a WCW Main Eventer for a few years, I would argue his time in TNA is more what he will be remembered for (good or bad). Oh and Sting has proven to bring in ratings (on the ONE iMPACT! he actually showed up to).

Now I know I personally like to rip the shit out of TNA, fuck, who doesn't. One, it's fun to piss off sMARKS who are clueless on how to defend their product other then to say "WWE sux!1!1!!!!" and two, it's just so fucking easy. BUT there is a secert part three as to why I can rip into TNA so easily. I watch TNA religiously. It has actually become a tradition with my room mate (who hasn't watched wrestling since the late 80's) and I to sit down with a few beers and watch "iMPACT!". I watched Saturday Night Main Event, that was the last WWE event I watched and honestly it was probably a few weeks since I had watched WWE before that.

Simply put, I just don't watch WWE anymore. And it's not even that I am too busy too, I just don't care. While TNA is filled with problems, I still care about the product. It is new, it is different, and while the traditional form of story telling in the ring is slaughtered, TNA has a diferent form of marketing. Establish though short breif segements who will fight at the PPV, then throw them in jobber matches with the announcers talking about their PPV oponite, then throw an over the top gimmick to the match itself. Is it the traditional way to promote a PPV match during the national TV deal era? No. But actually as weird as it sounds, it is more true to the origins of pro wrestling. Now I am not suggesting we revert back to that style, but at least TNA is trying some other then the stale format WWE is using.

And let's be honest for a second, the X-Division...no it doesn't use a single ounce of wrestling psychology...but how many fans even know what wrestling psychology is? Or care to know? Or care if it's there or not. They do flashy moves. I will even admit once in a while I am impressed by some of the meaningless flash. Do I think it's good wrestling? No. I think it's flashy moves that grab people's attention. And that is what TNA needs right now, to grab people's attention and increase their fan base. WCW did the same thing with the Cruisers. Let's be honest, once the division stopped focusing on Malenko, Jericho, etc. and started focusing on Juvi, Rey, etc. it was all flash...exactly like the X-Division. And it works. People sit up and take notice of it. A lot of people used to the only reason to watch WCW was because of the Crusers...well TNA is kind of basing their entire fan base off that idea.

And then we have the mysterious X-Factor of the PPVs. Not to sound like a TNA sMARK, but TNA's PPVs are simply incredible. They are worth the $30. Plain and simple. I don't think anyone can really argue TNA puts on better quality PPVs then anyone right now, beginning to end they have an easy flow to them, and while they can be jam packed with gimmick matches...that's what TNA is needing right now. They need as much flash, shinny, look over here and pay attention to us shit as they can have because they can sell anything on their name talents. Truly the only marketable name they have is Sting. No one else can draw on their name alone. And don't bring me Samoa Joe or AJ Styles...TNA is trying to compete on a national level, not sell out a 500 seat arena/bingo hall.

To the more trained eye and educated mind; TNA is like a hot person who drools on themselves because they are so dumb. But to the group of people TNA is trying to bring in to be their fan base, it's new. It's not affraid to "go there" with the special matches, and the X-Division wrestlers do things WWE guys simply don't do. For better or worse...casual marks think an all cage match PPV is a cool idea, flashy moves are sweet, and the 6 sided ring looks awesome. Or at least the casual marks I have had conversations with. And I have to admit...at least TNA is trying.

[Fox]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight They don't want to admit that spots are not enough for most people. They don't want to admit that Jarrett is a severe deterrent. They don't want to admit that TNA makes some seriously shitty booking/purchase decisions. They don't want to admit that most people like drama in their wrestling. They don't want to admit most of these things, because they don't know the product beyond "ZOMG! It's not WWE!" And think everyone'll just jump on the bangwagon because of that alone. TNA makes some really stupid decisions. And so does WWE. WWE can afford it: They are the alpha male, the leader in ratings, and the watermark of current wrestling entertainment. People will watch WWE because they've grown up with it, it's been around, and they know the people. They can work in ways TNA cannot, becase they need to establish themselves Triple H can afford tol hold down talent because he's a name, he makes appearances on Letterman and O'Brien, casual fans are more likely to know him, etc. JJ cannot do the same because he was a midcard jobber who lost to Chyna and hasn't been a household name since...Errr...Line? Hate to say it, but WWE can afford to give Hogan and Flair title shots. TNA can't afford to give Nash a title shot. And that's not even counting the tricep tear he'd get hoisting the title. WWE can afford to be a lot dumber, so when they bring this shit up, they lose.

First, to say that it's "okay" for Triple H to hold down up and coming talent (or even just talent that's far better than he is) because WWE is "the alpha male" is ridiculous. It's exactly the type of thinking that spun WCW (another promotion that was once on top) into the ground, with guys like Hogan, Nash, and Ric Flair staying in the main events when guys like Booker T, Scott Steiner, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, and DDP were ready to take the spotlight.


TNA isn't this hell-hole, shit-bird of a wrestling company that lots of people on this forum like to make it out to be. Sure they don't have the kind of money or establishment that WWE has, but everyone has to start somewhere, and for TNA to have a national TV deal and higher ratings on Saturday night's than WWE ever did; those are very, very good signs.

Pushing stars like Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, America's Most Wanted, Christian Cage, Abyss, Petey Williams, and Chris Fucking Sabin are also all good signs that TNA is doing things right.

To call the X-Division just a "spot division" is just ignorance, and proof that the speaker of such is simply ignorant to TNA's X-Division. Yeah, you're going to get your spot-heavy matches on Impact, but that's because they only have one hour, and they need to pack in as much "adrenaline rush" as they can get. Still, these matches are much more exciting than WWE's usual five minute fares on your average RAW or Smackdown. They are also well wrestled, with crisp execution and good pacing.

Then give the guys from the X-Division more time to wrestle, like on a PPV, and you get classics like Samoa Joe vs. Chris Sabin, either of the Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles Iron Man Matches, AJ Styles vs. Petey Williams from Genesis, Alex Shelley vs. Jay Lethal, and countless others. These matches are more than just spot fests; they have psychology and technique implemented throughout. It's far different and far more entertaining than WWE's slow, molasses-paced crap they spew out every week.

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 TNA has to stop doing what WCW did. They're bringing in some of the old names who the WWE never thought to re-sign/sign. If they're going to hire big names, spread the fucking money around, don't go throwing million dollar contracts to the first guy you see at an indy event just because they were huge 5 to 10 years ago. Christian was the only signing (out of him, Sting and Steiner) who they should have signed to a huge contract, and rightfully so. He hasn't been played out to the point that he's a generic huge star, playing their old gimmick/trying to change them to a gimmick that doesn't work because people don't buy them as anything else but what they played when they were huge. That's the key. He isn't a Sting or a Steiner, so while he WAS in the WWE, TNA can take his momentum and make him a real superstar for them. Steiner and Sting will always be known as the main eventers who used to be in WWE and/or WCW. Christian can be know as the main eventer who made a real name for himself in TNA.

First of all, saying "They're bringing in some of the old names who the WWE never thought to re-sign/sign" and then going straight to examples of Sting, Scott Steiner and Christian Cage make you look like an idiot.

Scott Steiner WAS in fact signed after the closure of WCW, and he was horribly booked (as WWE does with all superstars not created by Vince McMahon) by turning him face and using him as build-up fodder for Triple H's WrestleMania match against Booker T at XIX. He then wasted the rest of his time in WWE in monotony, having a semi-memorable but ultimately ridiculous feud with Test over Stacy Kiebler (Steiner, an obvious jackassy heel, was STILL being booked as a face).

Sting has been negotiated with and contacted by WWE several times since the end of WCW, but he doesn't wish to join their company because of the risque nature of the show.

And Christian Cage said it himself: WWE tried to keep him, but he knew where he would be treated better and where he would be happier: TNA.

That aside,

Sting has brought TNA the highest ratings in their short-time on Spike TV; higher than Christian Cage's ratings to be sure. To say that he doesn't effect the aura surrounding TNA as a whole is ignorance. Sting, while obviously no longer in his prime, is still a huge draw and a largely recognizable symbol to wrestling fans and non-wrestling fans alike. He's an icon in this business, and for someone who's never stepped foot in a WrestleMania, that's a huge accomplishment. If Sting can be brought in to help elevate the talent at TNA, simply by his presence and the kind of exposure that garners for TNA Wrestling, then all the better for it.

Scott Steiner, although only making three appearances for the company so far, has been built up as a totally legitimate bad ass, and someone not to be fucked with, and he's come off like one on TV. I haven't seen this kind of intensity from Steiner since his final days in WCW, and that is a GOOD thing. I certainly don't want to see the panty-waste bitch that he was in WWE. Steiner is gold when he's allowed to play the macho, cocky bad ass, and that's exactly what TNA is doing.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Fox First, to say that it's "okay" for Triple H to hold down up and coming talent (or even just talent that's far better than he is) because WWE is "the alpha male" is ridiculous.

New Rule: Posters must pass a literacy test or be banned.

Or, to break it down for you, Fox, "can afford to" =/= "it is okay."

It's really that simple. I am not endorsing it as good, I am saying that they can get away with it at the current time.

And yes, they can afford to. You can comapre them to WCW, but until TNA has an actual attitude era, it doesn't fucking matter. WWE could main event the same guys WCW did and still be on top, because WWE still has more crossover promotional appeal.

To be honest, I'd cream myself if TNA ever put WWE in a make or break situation, adapt or die. I'd be sitting there chain orgasming over that shit, but it's nowhere near that. TNA just isn't strong enough. WWE can bargain on a name, TNA has to rely on the faith of the network hosting them. They can't even shake a primteime slot. And you can argue that they might someday be capable of an Attitude Era, it's not there now, and it's not close.

But since most of your post was a fanboyish attempt to justify TNA being in the right direction, I'll just write it off as rabid fanboyism siezing up an otherwise normally passable mind.

I just want to say: You were really full of shit in that rant. But whatever. Not worth arguing with blind fanboyism.

[The Greater Power]

Wow, TNA is completely copying the whole DDP spying on Taker's wife thing with Alex Shelley spying on Christian's wife.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by The Greater Power Wow, TNA is completely copying the whole DDP spying on Taker's wife thing with Alex Shelley spying on Christian's wife.

I like that they're trying this angle. Drama is needed in their shows. Shelley's pairing with Abyss allows that drama to be transfered over to him. It works, I think.

What TNA needs to do, in my opinion, is tell stories on Impact!. The jobber matches are fine in small doses, but I'd much rather seem them put on an actual show, with developments. From Lockdown onwards, I think TNA should have a title defended every show. Title changes should occur more often on Impact!, plus more grudge matches should take place.

Heading into Lockdown, there were some pretty simple matches TNA could have run. Christian Cage vs. Alex Shelley for the NWA World Heavyweight Campionship was one, and that would serve as the title match of the show is was on. Rhino vs. Alex Shelley is another, and a NWA Tag Team Championship match would probably headline that show. A third match could have been Christian Cage & Rhino vs. Abyss & Alex Shelley, with a TNA X-Division Championship Match headlining.

Instead we get crappy semi-promo build. Matches can build towards something, too. TNA doesn't give enough away on free TV, and while this can be seen as a good thing, with their PPVs, they can afford to give a lot more away on Impact!. It certainly won't stop the PPVs from being good, and if Impact! reaches PPV quality, it still is only a third of a PPV's length, so assuming they are equal in quality per minute, you still get your money's worth from TNA PPV.

TNA needs to identify their shows a lot more, and let them tell a story leading into the PPV, because right now you can order and watch and still be up to speed. One of the better things about the Attitude Era was that if you missed a show, you'd miss a development.