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Old 07-15-2007, 01:08 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
WRESTLING'S A WORK
SO ARE PUSHES

To make 2 future legends and the main star of wrestling today either pass out or have to be saved from his submission move is a pretty damn good push.
Last edited by James Steele; 07-15-2007 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:11 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
By promotional weight, I meant the kind of super push reserved for tippy-top guys (or those they want to turn into tippy-top guys). Some on your list remain to be seen, but of those who you listed...

Edge, for a long time, was ripped. His first big singles push came around 2003(?) when he returned from neck surgery and he was super-buff. Now, he looks kinda average, but he's already made it to the top.

Kane? Please! The guy has the kind of large, monster physique WWE loves.

Even though I wouldn't say they were on steroids, Umaga, Booker T and JBL all have those larger-than-life, heads-turning-in-airports bodies that Vince adores. I would hardly say "unremarkable".

The only guy you can really justify there is Shawn Michaels (and possibly Kennedy, at a push). Nobody else on that list has ever had a prolonged sniff at the top rung of the ladder.
When you said "unremarkable physiques", I thought you meant the scott steiners and chris master's of the world.

Edge- If you broke your neck, I bet your doctor would prescribe you steroids to help you heal faster. Edge hasn't ever looked like a ripped mutant.

Kane and JBL are just big dudes. I would find it hard to say JBL has ever shot up and Kane hasn't looked like a ripped machine since he came back from injury.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:12 AM   #123
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And aren't people pushed based on their size?

Example: Bobby Lashley.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:13 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
And aren't people pushed based on their size?

Example: Bobby Lashley.
Cena,Lashley,Bats, and Nitro are the only obvious roiders who are getting major pushes right now. Wrestling is about who draws. People have always payed to see sideshow freaks. Yeah, they are the headline but 3 or 4 out of a roster of god knows how many isn't a bad ratio.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:15 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
When you said "unremarkable physiques", I thought you meant the scott steiners and chris master's of the world.

Edge- If you broke your neck, I bet your doctor would prescribe you steroids to help you heal faster. Edge hasn't ever looked like a ripped mutant.
Actually when Edge returned from his injury on that draft special where he was drated to Raw and where he speared Bishoff he was a ripped mutant.

Now he isn't a ripped mutant anymore, but he was at one point.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:28 AM   #126
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Is it just me, or has this turned suspiciously like a baseball arguement?
I mean, "He's big! He must be on 'roids!" It's the samething we've heard about baseball for two years now.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:30 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Cena,Lashley,Bats, and Nitro are the only obvious roiders who are getting major pushes right now. Wrestling is about who draws. People have always payed to see sideshow freaks. Yeah, they are the headline but 3 or 4 out of a roster of god knows how many isn't a bad ratio.
Benoit was on steriods and he didn't look like a jacked up freak like Batista. Even though he was big, but not just Batista like big.

So I think it's safe to assume that there is more then 3 or 4 on the gas in the WWE right now.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:31 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisat928
Is it just me, or has this turned suspiciously like a baseball arguement?
I mean, "He's big! He must be on 'roids!" It's the samething we've heard about baseball for two years now.
And we have heard it wrestling for 30 years and nothing has changed.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:32 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Actually when Edge returned from his injury on that draft special where he was drated to Raw and where he speared Bishoff he was a ripped mutant.

Now he isn't a ripped mutant anymore, but he was at one point.

That is a screen-cap of his return to raw. There is a difference between "buff" and "roid monkey."

Here is a picture of him the next week on RAW:



Here is a pic from the week after that:



Yeah, he is way buffer but far from shooting up every 48 hours.

Here is a pic from the next week:



Here is a pic from the week after that:



Yes, he was quite the ripped mutant upon his return.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:33 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Benoit was on steriods and he didn't look like a jacked up freak like Batista. Even though he was big, but not just Batista like big.

So I think it's safe to assume that there is more then 3 or 4 on the gas in the WWE right now.
I said only 3-4 guys getting a huge push in WWE. Also, if you don't think Benoit looked roided up...you are in denial.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:34 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
And we have heard it wrestling for 30 years and nothing has changed.
Because just like baseball players, wrestler makes the choice. The only realistic thing ANY company can do is have drug tests and consequences for failed tests.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:35 AM   #132
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I think Benoit did look roided up.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:36 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Because just like baseball players, wrestler makes the choice. The only realistic thing ANY company can do is have drug tests and consequences for failed tests.
Yes and they can have policy that does not have to get taken off their webiste, because it has so many loopholes.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:38 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
I think Benoit did look roided up.
It was obvious. I respected Benoit in the ring just as much as everybody did, but he was on the juice and it was obvious. Thats why people think Benoit looked roided up. He was given a pass on it because he could work better than anybody in wrestling. The problem with most roid monkeys is they can't work (Lex Luger, Hogan, Warrior, etc.)
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:39 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
Yes and they can have policy that does not have to get taken off their webiste, because it has so many loopholes.
Please tell me some loopholes besides the prescription thing. I can't believe people are outraged that people can have a prescription (by a doctor) for a drug and it not be taken into account for their drug test.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:49 AM   #136
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You can pass a drug a test with a ratio of 10/1. I'm sure a doctor isn't going to seriously prescribe something that is going to give you testrone level that high.

You shouldn't be able to pass a drug test with a testrone level of 10/1.

Now if the WWE Wellness policy was so legit and didn't have all these loopholes why would they take if off their corporate website? WHY?


And Edge looks totally roided up there compared to what he looks like now.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:54 AM   #137
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I like how James Steele listed Jeff Hardy in his list of people who've been pushed with unremarkable physics or however you spelt it.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:00 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
I like how James Steele listed Jeff Hardy in his list of people who've been pushed with unremarkable physics or however you spelt it.
He may shoot up something, but it aint steroids.

Jeff Hardy has cleaned himself up and I hope he does well.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:03 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend
You can pass a drug a test with a ratio of 10/1. I'm sure a doctor isn't going to seriously prescribe something that is going to give you testrone level that high.

You shouldn't be able to pass a drug test with a testrone level of 10/1.

Now if the WWE Wellness policy was so legit and didn't have all these loopholes why would they take if off their corporate website? WHY?


And Edge looks totally roided up there compared to what he looks like now.
That thing is bullshit. 10:1 is automatic failure- prescription or no prescriptionn. 4:1 up to below 10:1 is investigated and you must provide prescriptions for anything found in your system. It is the same test given in the NFL and NBA.

EDIT: I can't find the clip on YouTube, but Ken Kennedy himself debunked the 10:1 thing. I think he would know about it a hell of a lot more than some greedy dirtsheet writer or ratings-hungry "news" anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kennedy
We have a strict drug policy in place. The WWE's wellness program was designed and instituted by the same doctor who implemented the NFL and the NBA's substance abuse programs. Contrary to what somebody recently said on one of these "tabloid" shows the WWE's allowed levels are exactly the same as the NFL. (Someone, I can't recall exactly who said it, said that the WWE allowed a 10:1 Testosterone to Epitestosterone level, which is false. We have a 4:1 level exactly like the NFL and the NBA.) In fact, I knew of someone who took an over the counter supplement from GNC which he didn't know was on the banned list, which caused him to have an elevated testosterone level. This individual was suspended and fined because of it. We can't even take Ephedrine which is another legal supplement that can be bought at any gas station in the country. Since I've been with the company, I've seen the few people that did have problems with drugs either sent to rehab to try and help them overcome their addictions, (sent to one of the top rehab facilities in the country and paid for in full by the WWE) or be fired for repeat offenses.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:45 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
It was obvious. I respected Benoit in the ring just as much as everybody did, but he was on the juice and it was obvious. Thats why people think Benoit looked roided up. He was given a pass on it because he could work better than anybody in wrestling. The problem with most roid monkeys is they can't work (Lex Luger, Hogan, Warrior, etc.)
James, some of your posts make me want to stab my eyes with a steak knife. I love your last sentence here and I love the 3 guys you name. You know who else were roid monkeys? Randy Savage, Dynamite Kid, Kurt Angle, Kerry Von Erich, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, Eddie Guerrero. Just naming names that come to me. Oh, by the way, Luger was a pretty solid worker back in the 80's.
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:31 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
James, some of your posts make me want to stab my eyes with a steak knife. I love your last sentence here and I love the 3 guys you name. You know who else were roid monkeys? Randy Savage, Dynamite Kid, Kurt Angle, Kerry Von Erich, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, Eddie Guerrero. Just naming names that come to me. Oh, by the way, Luger was a pretty solid worker back in the 80's.
Most of them could work, but it eventually caught up with them...but thats not what they are remembered for.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:26 AM   #142
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90% of the WWE roster is on the juice. Yes even the cruiserweights. Even the women are on GHB and/or HGH.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:28 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Just off the top of my head:

Of those in WWE today: Edge, CM Punk, Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton (arguable- but he doesn't have a freaky looking muscle build) ,MVP, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch, Booker T., Mr. Kennedy, Fit Finlay, Kane, JBL, Matt Striker, The Miz (he is getting a half-ass push in ECW), Elijah Burke,Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Chavo Guerrero.
At least 10 of those guys are very clearly on steroids or have been in a certain announcers case.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:40 AM   #144
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He asked me to name guys who didn't have "freakish physiques" that have gotten pushed. He didn't ask me to name people not on steroids.
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:49 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Rob
At least 10 of those guys are very clearly on steroids or have been in a certain announcers case.
Which ten? I played football with guys who had those builds and I know for a fact they weren't on steroids.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:50 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSteele
He asked me to name guys who didn't have "freakish physiques" that have gotten pushed.
No I didn't. I said that you could probably count on your fingers the number of guys with "unremarkable" physiques who have ever had a serious push from WWE (and I mean a real, genuine push towards main event-dom)

I can think of just a few. Flair, Bret, Shawn and Foley.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:32 AM   #147
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Most of them could work, but it eventually caught up with them...but thats not what they are remembered for.
so Hogan, Warrior and Luger are remembered for being roid monkeys? By who, you?
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:31 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by JamesSteele
Because just like baseball players, wrestler makes the choice. The only realistic thing ANY company can do is have drug tests and consequences for failed tests.
Yes, wrestlers make choices. They are human beings and humans have a brain. Nobody is disputing that. We're not robots. Who here is saying wrestlers can't make thier own decisions. That's a moot point.

Now, in saying that, why do you think so many wrestlers choose to use steroids or some other growth enhancement? It's been answered by guys here already. History shows the better the body, you are more likely to get a push and the better push you get, the more money you will make. At the end of the day, most people want to make the most money they can. Is this something new in a business?


Yes, the WWE has a drug policy. They say they have drug tests and consquences. For a company who claims this, the punishment line has been really thin, don't you think. Where is Batista, Lashley, HHH, Cena, Edge, Gene Snitsky on this line? Where is most of the roster? lol, but Joey Mercury gets caught. What a load of crap. He was fed to the wolves. He was a scapegoat in a room of users and abusers.

You mention Chris Masters? He failed a test, right? So, what was he doing wrestling for the IC Title on WWE's #1 Cable show? Jobbing or not, he's wrestling the Intercontinental Champion on Raw. The WWE really let him know who's boss. And his body is back to where is was. That right there gives me no hope of thier program. It's laughable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele
It was obvious. I respected Benoit in the ring just as much as everybody did, but he was on the juice and it was obvious. Thats why people think Benoit looked roided up. He was given a pass on it because he could work better than anybody in wrestling.
So, do you think that's cool?

Funniest comment of the day coming up right here

Quote:
Are you actually so jaded to actually believe WWE has done NOTHING to prevent these situations from happening. The Wellness Policy has shown results. What the fuck more do you want? Just because HHH hasn't ever failed a test and been fired?
The Wellness Policy has shown the results guys. Joey Mercury was fired. Randy Orton was sent home and now he's going for the World Championship. One of the most obvious users, Chris Masters, was caught and now he's back with the same body type again. hmm. Yep, that's all there is to it. Not much more to ask for I guess. The Wellness Policy has spoken.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:02 AM   #149
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You and Rob need to pull y'alls heads out of y'alls self-righteous asses and actually read some of the arguments besides going "ITS WWE'S RESPONSIBILITY! STUPID WWE MARK!"
I'm assuming you mean me. How self righteous of me to believe that WWE should keep their word to their stockholders and actually obey the law by not defrauding them!
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:04 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by NeanderCarl
No I didn't. I said that you could probably count on your fingers the number of guys with "unremarkable" physiques who have ever had a serious push from WWE (and I mean a real, genuine push towards main event-dom)

I can think of just a few. Flair, Bret, Shawn and Foley.
Steele? Pulling something out of his ass? Why, I never thought I'd see the day!
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:34 AM   #151
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Also, the logic seems to be that the policy works because we haven'[t heard anyone dying recently. And by that, I mean the last couple of days.

I mean, Benoit "slipped under the radar." He must've, apparently, just started doing steroids that day, according to Kennedy. And I'm sure RVD and Sabu had passed their drug tests. And how many other people do you think are slipping through the cracks of the "Wellness Policy?" Every instance will be downplayed. That's the corporate line. It's always sad to see the fans defend the company through actions that hurt not only their employees, but the business in general.
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:09 PM   #152
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Quote:
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Which ten? I played football with guys who had those builds and I know for a fact they weren't on steroids.

Bullshit.
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Old 07-15-2007, 09:37 PM   #153
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Bullshit.
He said football, not soccer.
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:19 PM   #154
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Marc Mero sounds like Tony Robbins
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:27 PM   #155
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I agree with you on everything except the 1st paragraph. Wrestlers need a union to fight for them to get decent benefits.
The very least the WWE could do is pay their staff's travelling expenses.
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