Embarrased to be a CANUCKS fan - Page 4

**VonErich Lives** · 03-11-2004, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yashamaga

Bertuzzi still meant to hurt him, no doubt about it. You can't compare throwing and punching though; one you have total control of and the other you just don't

Wait, so when you throw a punch you don't mean to hurt someone?

(Yash, LB was talking about this on WAAF yesterday).

Everytime you put someone into the boards the goal isn't to say hello, it's to hurt them, cross checks, fights, etc... the goal is always to cause damage, so to invovle the cops on one case, means to involve them on every case.

Then would be football, when a WR goes accross the middle and Rodney Harrison puts a legal hit on them, the goal is to cause pain, so the guy doesn't want to go across the middle again.

**Adder** · 03-11-2004, 11:34 AM

Considering other players have sucker punched other players before this incident I believe that the way some of you guys are going on is ridiculous. Same as the American media. All these "experts" weighing in their opinion. Shut up already, hockey has inherint risks, and by stepping on the ice you acknowledge that. No one expects to have their neck broke, but this happening isn't simply Bertuzzi's fault. The entire NHL and NHLPA bear some of the blame for letting the sport get to this level and only now crying foul when someone is hurt so badly.

**VonErich Lives** · 03-11-2004, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder

Considering other players have sucker punched other players before this incident I believe that the way some of you guys are going on is ridiculous. Same as the American media. All these "experts" weighing in their opinion. Shut up already, hockey has inherint risks, and by stepping on the ice you acknowledge that. No one expects to have their neck broke, but this happening isn't simply Bertuzzi's fault. The entire NHL and NHLPA bear some of the blame for letting the sport get to this level and only now crying foul when someone is hurt so badly.

I still don't see how you go from a hard hitting game that alows fighting to cheap dirty shots...

Anyway, the league has suspended him for the season and playoffs and will review it next season, as to if/when he is reinstated.

**The Outlaw** · 03-11-2004, 12:37 PM

Yeah just read that he's suspended for season and playoffs.

They also fined the canucks 250,000 dollars.

**Heyman** · 03-11-2004, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

Yeah just read that he's suspended for season and playoffs.

They also fined the canucks 250,000 dollars.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Canucks trade Bertuzzi at the end of the season (assuming that Bertuzzi becomes available to play next season).

Canucks can get another solid D-Man and some other shit.

**The Outlaw** · 03-11-2004, 01:20 PM

Yeah I agree.

**Splaya** · 03-11-2004, 01:31 PM

Official word out of ESPN is that he is suspended for the remainder of the season and the playoffs and then must apply for reinstatement next year in August or September and the league will decide then. If they do not think he is ready to be back then he will be suspended indefinitely. As was stated before the Canucks have also been fined 250,000 dollars

I totally agree with the length and reinstatement parts of the suspension. The NHL did this in a timely manner and did not give itself a black eye and sure as hell proved it is not a joke. They will be a joke though when they lockout next year but that's another story for another time.

**VonErich Lives** · 03-11-2004, 01:41 PM

my only concern is the word is, his reinstatement depends on the condition of moore, and I don't think the penalty should be on the "Result" but the action... What if he did the same thing but the guy walked away?

It's kinda like (not sure if the NHL still does it) the penalty would increase if you drew blood and you'd see players picking at their lip to get blood.

**Splaya** · 03-11-2004, 01:45 PM

So ur telling me he picked at his face until he drew blood while coming down?

**Ol Dirty Dastard** · 03-11-2004, 02:32 PM

lol @ Morcheeba comparing this to Tucker on Peca, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

**The Icon of Elisim** · 03-11-2004, 02:36 PM

That suspension is fair I'd say. I'm just surprised that the NHL had the guts to go through with it. Rating are awful and the Bertuzzi thing did give them some press, and any publicity is good press. If they had let him play in the post season it could have given the games some attention, especially if it was against the Avs.

**Ol Dirty Dastard** · 03-11-2004, 02:52 PM

Good thing he's gone, nice to see they're finally taking this shit seriously.

**Heyman** · 03-11-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Icon of Elisim

That suspension is fair I'd say. I'm just surprised that the NHL had the guts to go through with it. Rating are awful and the Bertuzzi thing did give them some press, and any publicity is good press. If they had let him play in the post season it could have given the games some attention, especially if it was against the Avs.

Only a douchebag like Vince McMahon would think about 'ratings' and 'publicity' as opposed to sticking by 'what's right'.

**Adder** · 03-11-2004, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives

my only concern is the word is, his reinstatement depends on the condition of moore, and I don't think the penalty should be on the "Result" but the action... What if he did the same thing but the guy walked away?

[...]

Um, yeah. That's part of what I said, that you disagreed with.

Let me reiterate, this isn’t the first time someone's been sucker punched, or hit with a stick, or whatever...

Quote:

ME Earlier
The entire NHL and NHLPA bear some of the blame for letting the sport get to this level and only now crying foul when someone is hurt so badly.

**The Outlaw** · 03-11-2004, 05:03 PM

A cheap shot is a cheap shot, not the NHL's fault that some people are chicken shits.

**BCWWF** · 03-11-2004, 05:19 PM

A cheap shot is one thing, a cheap shot that breaks someones neck is something else.

You can compare an elbow to the gut while scrumming at the boards the same type of thing as full out punching someone int he back of the head and then falling on them.

**AlphaBean** · 03-11-2004, 05:24 PM

Last season I didn't watch much hockey at all, except when the Wild beat the 'nucks in the playoffs. Then, I saw Bertuzzi beat the living shit out of everyone who came near him. And when I came on message boards, I saw people doing the

Bertuzzi

thing.

Had Moore not had his head bent down (

) the way he did, Bertuzzi would have likely just gotten a penalty, or a short suspension. Moore tried to break his fall with his face... I'm not saying it's his fault, but knowing how to fall is usually the difference between a broken nose, and a broken neck. It's a major rule in sport.

I haven't read the thread, sorry, but I've glanced and seen people say this in other words... I think Bertuzzi did what was in his power, and that's to abuse another player. To be fair and consistent, to prevent anything like this from happening again, all cheap shots should result in an extended suspension.

Just think about it -- this was in retaliation to Moore's hit on what's his name. Had he been suspended for that hit, he wouldn't have broken his neck.

Don't bitch at me for saying that, I don't think it's right, even though it is true. But honestly, you have to draw a line. It's like legalizing drunk driving, unless you get into an accident and hurt somebody, then it's illegal.

**BCWWF** · 03-11-2004, 05:36 PM

Good points made by AlphaBean. As the time passes since the incident, I am beginning to see it more clearly, and I am sure that if Moore wasn't severely injured Bertuzzi would only have gotton a few games. Inconsistancy.

**VonErich Lives** · 03-11-2004, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splaya

So ur telling me he picked at his face until he drew blood while coming down?

LMAO... no, was giving examples of how th NHL rules.

They seem to rule more on the result then the intent.

IE: stick you to the jaw it's a penalty, I stick you to the jaw and draw blood it'se worse.

**VonErich Lives** · 03-11-2004, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder

Um, yeah. That's part of what I said, that you disagreed with.

Let me reiterate, this isn�t the first time someone's been sucker punched, or hit with a stick, or whatever...

Can't blame the NHL. There are rules, he broke them.

Figting and hitting has always been part of the NHL, (ok, brief time in the mid 90's they tried getting rid of it).

But there is a difference between hard hitting and fighting and cheap shots.

**The Icon of Elisim** · 03-11-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heyman

Only a douchebag like Vince McMahon would think about 'ratings' and 'publicity' as opposed to sticking by 'what's right'.

There are a lot of people like Vince McMahon in the television industry.

Plus the world does revolve around money, something that the NHL needs

**da_king** · 03-11-2004, 07:51 PM

i'm sure the media outrage had a large part to play in the suspension, the league doesn't want to look bad and by leaving it open-ended they can prety much please everyone by saying it could be longer. laying that fine on the team is ridiculous, especially when you consider that hitchcock himself came out and said that "havlat will eat his lunch" and of course the resulting brawl the following game. seems like the league just makes up stuff as they go along, they don't have any concrete guidelines to go by just whatever prescedent was set previously and going by that it should've been 12 games. players have had careers ended by cheap shots that reulted in less of a suspension but of course the nhl is just worried about what sensationalist media types are saying, so they make an example out of somebody in order to suck up to them. oh well they've set a new prescedent so they better stick by it but we all know that's not gonna happen.

**Adder** · 03-11-2004, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

A cheap shot is one thing, a cheap shot that breaks someones neck is something else.

Are you implying Bertuzzi meant to break his neck?

**VonErich Lives** · 03-11-2004, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da_king

i'm sure the media outrage had a large part to play in the suspension, the league doesn't want to look bad and by leaving it open-ended they can prety much please everyone by saying it could be longer. laying that fine on the team is ridiculous, especially when you consider that hitchcock himself came out and said that "havlat will eat his lunch" and of course the resulting brawl the following game. seems like the league just makes up stuff as they go along, they don't have any concrete guidelines to go by just whatever prescedent was set previously and going by that it should've been 12 games. players have had careers ended by cheap shots that reulted in less of a suspension but of course the nhl is just worried about what sensationalist media types are saying, so they make an example out of somebody in order to suck up to them. oh well they've set a new prescedent so they better stick by it but we all know that's not gonna happen.

You don't compare this to the McSorley incident? if not, why? because of the stick?

Heck, most people say in the McSorley case he was swinging the stick at his shoulder not his head...

I think thats what they looked at for guidelines... but, the NHL making it up as they go, wouldn't be to far off either.

**Adder** · 03-11-2004, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Good points made by AlphaBean. As the time passes since the incident, I am beginning to see it more clearly, and I am sure that if Moore wasn't severely injured Bertuzzi would only have gotton a few games. Inconsistancy.

OK, glad to see you "see this". This is the part that I'm maddest about.

**da_king** · 03-11-2004, 08:35 PM

vel i compare it most to the matt johnson incident because that was a sucker punch from behind which caused a player to hit his head on the ice. i beleive that player had to retire as a result (forget his name at the moment though) and i think that was a twelve game suspension. what mcsorely did was a stick swinging incident which is less similiar. if the league decides they all of a sudden want to crack down then they need to let the players know that such and such an infraction will result in x number of games missed rather then waiting for something to happen and then guesing on a number.

**Adder** · 03-11-2004, 08:41 PM

Beukeboom

**Guest #1** · 03-11-2004, 08:42 PM

The biggest problem I have with the situation is that after the Naslund hit, fans in Vancouver were screaming for Moore's blood. After the first game back, there was so much pressure on call-in shows and on the street sentiment that the Canucks let it go. This put so much pressure on media to keep it in the face of the team. Unfortunately, we got what we asked for, In Spades. Then the fans turned on Bertuzzi and wanted to run him out of town. I don't think the fans of Vancouver can look at this guilt free, and try to take the high road. Bertuzzi, the team and the fans were all culpable and the punishment the league sent down is probably just for all parties.

**BlackRavyyn** · 03-11-2004, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da_king

vel i compare it most to the matt johnson incident because that was a sucker punch from behind which caused a player to hit his head on the ice. i beleive that player had to retire as a result (forget his name at the moment though) and i think that was a twelve game suspension. what mcsorely did was a stick swinging incident which is less similiar. if the league decides they all of a sudden want to crack down then they need to let the players know that such and such an infraction will result in x number of games missed rather then waiting for something to happen and then guesing on a number.

Good point da king

And the player's name is Jeff Beukeboom...

**The Outlaw** · 03-12-2004, 01:55 AM

Moore did not try to break his fall, as you could plainly see his whole body went limp.

**VonErich Lives** · 03-12-2004, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guest #1

The biggest problem I have with the situation is that after the Naslund hit, fans in Vancouver were screaming for Moore's blood. After the first game back, there was so much pressure on call-in shows and on the street sentiment that the Canucks let it go. This put so much pressure on media to keep it in the face of the team. Unfortunately, we got what we asked for, In Spades. Then the fans turned on Bertuzzi and wanted to run him out of town. I don't think the fans of Vancouver can look at this guilt free, and try to take the high road. Bertuzzi, the team and the fans were all culpable and the punishment the league sent down is probably just for all parties.

Hasn't Naslund gone on record a few times that it was a clean hit?

That he (Naslund) was off balance, but it was a clean hit?

(I never saw it, but everything I've heard it was clean).

**Guest #1** · 03-12-2004, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives

Hasn't Naslund gone on record a few times that it was a clean hit?

That he (Naslund) was off balance, but it was a clean hit?

(I never saw it, but everything I've heard it was clean).

Naslund did say the hit was clean. Granted it was opportunistic, but it was a clean hockey hit. Naslund took much of the blame himself for putting himself in a vunerable situation. All I can say is, he's a classy player.

**BCWWF** · 03-12-2004, 06:13 PM

Yeah, I heard that the hit wasn't even that bad. Also Naslund > Bertuzzi

**da_king** · 03-12-2004, 08:41 PM

being in this market i can tell you without a doubt that naslund really is a classy guy. his interviews are usually pretty good without all the cliche's that a lot of athletes tend to spew out and he comes across as really genuine and honest in his comments. also regarding whether the hit on naslund was clean or not, it doesn't matter in the eyes of team mates, they want to send the mesage that their star player is off limits and maybe scare people into not hitting him as hard the next time around.

**VonErich Lives** · 03-13-2004, 02:06 AM

Cam Neely went out of his way to say the hit from Ulf was clean....

03-13-2004, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da_king

being in this market i can tell you without a doubt that naslund really is a classy guy. his interviews are usually pretty good without all the cliche's that a lot of athletes tend to spew out and he comes across as really genuine and honest in his comments. also regarding whether the hit on naslund was clean or not, it doesn't matter in the eyes of team mates, they want to send the mesage that their star player is off limits and maybe scare people into not hitting him as hard the next time around.

Do you think they sent the right message though? IMO, another team will pick up from this, "Hey, if we target their star players, they will commit stupid penalties, so we should try and aggravate them more", or something to that extent. I don't know though, I can see your point.

**The Outlaw** · 03-13-2004, 02:51 AM

Yeah the hit on naslund was clean

**da_king** · 03-13-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by road doggy dogg

Do you think they sent the right message though? IMO, another team will pick up from this, "Hey, if we target their star players, they will commit stupid penalties, so we should try and aggravate them more", or something to that extent. I don't know though, I can see your point.

yeah they did send the right mesage and i suppose it is hard for me to be truley objective. it just seems that they wait for something to happen before sending a mesage instead being proactive in preventing such matters as well as being inconsistent with their punishments.

03-11-2004, 11:34 AM	#122
Adder A.W.O.L. Posts: 5,862	Considering other players have sucker punched other players before this incident I believe that the way some of you guys are going on is ridiculous. Same as the American media. All these "experts" weighing in their opinion. Shut up already, hockey has inherint risks, and by stepping on the ice you acknowledge that. No one expects to have their neck broke, but this happening isn't simply Bertuzzi's fault. The entire NHL and NHLPA bear some of the blame for letting the sport get to this level and only now crying foul when someone is hurt so badly.

03-11-2004, 12:37 PM	#124
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	Yeah just read that he's suspended for season and playoffs. They also fined the canucks 250,000 dollars.

03-11-2004, 01:20 PM	#126
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	Yeah I agree.

03-11-2004, 01:31 PM	#127
Splaya 1-0 TPWW Chess Master Posts: 17,212	Official word out of ESPN is that he is suspended for the remainder of the season and the playoffs and then must apply for reinstatement next year in August or September and the league will decide then. If they do not think he is ready to be back then he will be suspended indefinitely. As was stated before the Canucks have also been fined 250,000 dollars I totally agree with the length and reinstatement parts of the suspension. The NHL did this in a timely manner and did not give itself a black eye and sure as hell proved it is not a joke. They will be a joke though when they lockout next year but that's another story for another time.

03-11-2004, 01:41 PM	#128
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	my only concern is the word is, his reinstatement depends on the condition of moore, and I don't think the penalty should be on the "Result" but the action... What if he did the same thing but the guy walked away? It's kinda like (not sure if the NHL still does it) the penalty would increase if you drew blood and you'd see players picking at their lip to get blood.

03-11-2004, 01:45 PM	#129
Splaya 1-0 TPWW Chess Master Posts: 17,212	So ur telling me he picked at his face until he drew blood while coming down?

03-11-2004, 02:32 PM	#130
Ol Dirty Dastard boop/bop/beep Posts: 38,453	lol @ Morcheeba comparing this to Tucker on Peca, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

03-11-2004, 02:36 PM	#131
The Icon of Elisim Elitist Member Posts: 15,438	That suspension is fair I'd say. I'm just surprised that the NHL had the guts to go through with it. Rating are awful and the Bertuzzi thing did give them some press, and any publicity is good press. If they had let him play in the post season it could have given the games some attention, especially if it was against the Avs.

03-11-2004, 02:52 PM	#132
Ol Dirty Dastard boop/bop/beep Posts: 38,453	Good thing he's gone, nice to see they're finally taking this shit seriously.

03-11-2004, 05:03 PM	#135
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	A cheap shot is a cheap shot, not the NHL's fault that some people are chicken shits.

03-11-2004, 05:19 PM	#136
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	A cheap shot is one thing, a cheap shot that breaks someones neck is something else. You can compare an elbow to the gut while scrumming at the boards the same type of thing as full out punching someone int he back of the head and then falling on them.

03-11-2004, 05:24 PM	#137
AlphaBean Happy Inside Posts: 18,970	Last season I didn't watch much hockey at all, except when the Wild beat the 'nucks in the playoffs. Then, I saw Bertuzzi beat the living shit out of everyone who came near him. And when I came on message boards, I saw people doing the Bertuzzi thing. Had Moore not had his head bent down ( ) the way he did, Bertuzzi would have likely just gotten a penalty, or a short suspension. Moore tried to break his fall with his face... I'm not saying it's his fault, but knowing how to fall is usually the difference between a broken nose, and a broken neck. It's a major rule in sport. I haven't read the thread, sorry, but I've glanced and seen people say this in other words... I think Bertuzzi did what was in his power, and that's to abuse another player. To be fair and consistent, to prevent anything like this from happening again, all cheap shots should result in an extended suspension. Just think about it -- this was in retaliation to Moore's hit on what's his name. Had he been suspended for that hit, he wouldn't have broken his neck. Don't bitch at me for saying that, I don't think it's right, even though it is true. But honestly, you have to draw a line. It's like legalizing drunk driving, unless you get into an accident and hurt somebody, then it's illegal.

03-11-2004, 05:36 PM	#138
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Good points made by AlphaBean. As the time passes since the incident, I am beginning to see it more clearly, and I am sure that if Moore wasn't severely injured Bertuzzi would only have gotton a few games. Inconsistancy.

03-11-2004, 07:51 PM	#142
da_king Senior Member Posts: 18,763	i'm sure the media outrage had a large part to play in the suspension, the league doesn't want to look bad and by leaving it open-ended they can prety much please everyone by saying it could be longer. laying that fine on the team is ridiculous, especially when you consider that hitchcock himself came out and said that "havlat will eat his lunch" and of course the resulting brawl the following game. seems like the league just makes up stuff as they go along, they don't have any concrete guidelines to go by just whatever prescedent was set previously and going by that it should've been 12 games. players have had careers ended by cheap shots that reulted in less of a suspension but of course the nhl is just worried about what sensationalist media types are saying, so they make an example out of somebody in order to suck up to them. oh well they've set a new prescedent so they better stick by it but we all know that's not gonna happen.

03-11-2004, 08:35 PM	#146
da_king Senior Member Posts: 18,763	vel i compare it most to the matt johnson incident because that was a sucker punch from behind which caused a player to hit his head on the ice. i beleive that player had to retire as a result (forget his name at the moment though) and i think that was a twelve game suspension. what mcsorely did was a stick swinging incident which is less similiar. if the league decides they all of a sudden want to crack down then they need to let the players know that such and such an infraction will result in x number of games missed rather then waiting for something to happen and then guesing on a number.

03-11-2004, 08:41 PM	#147
Adder A.W.O.L. Posts: 5,862	Beukeboom

03-11-2004, 08:42 PM	#148
Guest #1 Just Hangin' Posts: 336	The biggest problem I have with the situation is that after the Naslund hit, fans in Vancouver were screaming for Moore's blood. After the first game back, there was so much pressure on call-in shows and on the street sentiment that the Canucks let it go. This put so much pressure on media to keep it in the face of the team. Unfortunately, we got what we asked for, In Spades. Then the fans turned on Bertuzzi and wanted to run him out of town. I don't think the fans of Vancouver can look at this guilt free, and try to take the high road. Bertuzzi, the team and the fans were all culpable and the punishment the league sent down is probably just for all parties.

03-12-2004, 01:55 AM	#150
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	Moore did not try to break his fall, as you could plainly see his whole body went limp.

03-12-2004, 06:13 PM	#153
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Yeah, I heard that the hit wasn't even that bad. Also Naslund > Bertuzzi

03-12-2004, 08:41 PM	#154
da_king Senior Member Posts: 18,763	being in this market i can tell you without a doubt that naslund really is a classy guy. his interviews are usually pretty good without all the cliche's that a lot of athletes tend to spew out and he comes across as really genuine and honest in his comments. also regarding whether the hit on naslund was clean or not, it doesn't matter in the eyes of team mates, they want to send the mesage that their star player is off limits and maybe scare people into not hitting him as hard the next time around.

03-13-2004, 02:06 AM	#155
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	Cam Neely went out of his way to say the hit from Ulf was clean....

03-13-2004, 02:51 AM	#157
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	Yeah the hit on naslund was clean