MLB 2010-2011 Off Season Thread

[Droford]

Max Sherzer in 2.1 ip gave up 12 runs to the Os today. Good thing it didn't count but pitches Sunday vs the Yankees and misses the Os on their opening homestand lol damnit

Also, Jake Fox hit his 10th HR and I think they have to keep him on the roster somehow..

[Damian Rey]

Padres made a flurry of moves in recent days. They traded for INF Alberto Gonzalez, who will likely be backing up shortstop. That move lead to the optioning of Everth Cabrera to AAA.

Wade LeBlanc was optioned to AAA (YES), while Corey Luebke will break camp as the long reliever, though I suspect he will crack the starting 5 by the end of the year.

Rob Johnson was named the backup catcher, which got Guillermo Quiroz reassigned to minor league camp.

And, with Corey Patterson on the DL with a sore hamstring, former 3 round pick and Padre prospect outfielder Cedric Hunter gets the nod for the opening day roster. Honestly, I think this is a tryout for either the left or right field spots next year, as one of, if not both og Ludwick and Venable could be gone or no longer starting come 2012.

The bummer is Mat Latos got put on the DL with bursitis in his throwing shoulder. Thankfully, there's a shit ton of off days in April, so they don't need a 5th starter.

[Damian Rey]

I'd say losing a reliable go to guy in the rotation, like Pettite was, is a huge loss. Yea, you can say "well he only threw x amount of innings", but the fact is, they're relying on an unproven starter in Nova, who could continue to grow or get shalacked, and a wash up in Garcia, who is being backed by another washup in Colon, with plan C being Millwood in the minors, who hasn't been what I would call stellar.

Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble.

The bullpen looks stellar, and the offense is what it is, but a great set up relief core isn't going to do squat if the middle and back end of the rotation can't give them the lead.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I'd say losing a reliable go to guy in the rotation, like Pettite was, is a huge loss. Yea, you can say "well he only threw x amount of innings", but the fact is, they're relying on an unproven starter in Nova, who could continue to grow or get shalacked, and a wash up in Garcia, who is being backed by another washup in Colon, with plan C being Millwood in the minors, who hasn't been what I would call stellar. Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble. The bullpen looks stellar, and the offense is what it is, but a great set up relief core isn't going to do squat if the middle and back end of the rotation can't give them the lead.

I'd say they had 2 huge losses. Both pitching. First they lost on Lee. HUGE LOSS and then Pettitte didn't come back: ANOTHER HUGE LOSS! Do you know what I think will happen? They will tread water for maybe 2 to 3 months just until the deadline and then put together a package for a good pitcher. By then some pitchers may even cost less (Player wise of course) because of the team. By then Garcia will be gone. Ivan Nova may be gone (If he doesn't do well) I admit the Yankees have problems major problems but I think they have enough skill to stand tough just until the trading deadline.

I am actually a little worried not about the season but who will be traded. I think Montero will probably be traded. But, if we need to trade Banuelous I would be extremely sad. He had a really good spring and I really don't wanna lose him. I can't wait till I see him get a call up.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J I'd say they had 2 huge losses. Both pitching. First they lost on Lee. HUGE LOSS and then Pettitte didn't come back: ANOTHER HUGE LOSS! Do you know what I think will happen? They will tread water for maybe 2 to 3 months just until the deadline and then put together a package for a good pitcher. By then some pitchers may even cost less (Player wise of course) because of the team. By then Garcia will be gone. Ivan Nova may be gone (If he doesn't do well) I admit the Yankees have problems major problems but I think they have enough skill to stand tough just until the trading deadline. I am actually a little worried not about the season but who will be traded. I think Montero will probably be traded. But, if we need to trade Banuelous I would be extremely sad. He had a really good spring and I really don't wanna lose him. I can't wait till I see him get a call up.

Isn't Banuelos a starter, and close? If that's the case, they're better off keeping him and bringing him up and starting Montero than trading them for some veteran. Honestly, who is out there right now that looks like a viable option to trade for that's actually worth it?

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Isn't Banuelos a starter, and close? If that's the case, they're better off keeping him and bringing him up and starting Montero than trading them for some veteran. Honestly, who is out there right now that looks like a viable option to trade for that's actually worth it?

He is a starter and he's close. But in my honest opinion he isn't 2011 close. He's maybe 2012 close or 2013 close. The kid just turned 20 years old this month and all though we may see some of our prospects I think he's got a year or two before he actually does anything in the majors. And Montero isn't gonna be starting just yet. His spring was so shitty they sent him back to the minors which I couldn't be more angry/upset/sad about. Gustavo Molina will be in Montero's place. Now will Montero be back? Most likely!

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Not trying to hate on the Yankees, but with Joba having his usual issues, and having only two reliable starters, their rotation is in trouble.

Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.

Originally Posted by Vox Populi There's been talk of a Liriano deal off and on throughout the offseason, but understandably the Twins are asking big for him.

I don't know if the Yankees would bite on that. The Twins, as you said, are justifiably asking for the moon, and I think theyre more likely to keep Liriano and either extend him for a reasonable price or take the draft picks when the time to make that decision comes. I do not think they're going to get hosed like they did with the Santana deal.

Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J He is a starter and he's close. But in my honest opinion he isn't 2011 close. He's maybe 2012 close or 2013 close. The kid just turned 20 years old this month and all though we may see some of our prospects I think he's got a year or two before he actually does anything in the majors. And Montero isn't gonna be starting just yet. His spring was so shitty they sent him back to the minors which I couldn't be more angry/upset/sad about. Gustavo Molina will be in Montero's place. Now will Montero be back? Most likely!

I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on. I don't know if the Yankees would bite on that. The Twins, as you said, are justifiably asking for the moon, and I think theyre more likely to keep Liriano and either extend him for a reasonable price or take the draft picks when the time to make that decision comes. I do not think they're going to get hosed like they did with the Santana deal. I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

20 is really young for anyone to break into the majors. We may see Noesi, Betances, etc.etc. I just don't think he'd be ready today. It's better to maybe wait a while longer let him be in the minors then at some point you let Colon go and let him get his feet wet by being sixth starter sometimes for this season then he'll be ready to be a number 2 or a number 3 come 2012 or 2013.

They might be going the Bryce Harper route. Which I don't think is such a bad idea. Bryce Harper is ready to go right now. But, he will probably end up being a September call up. And maybe they are hoping Banuelous is a September call up too.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J 20 is really young for anyone to break into the majors. We may see Noesi, Betances, etc.etc. I just don't think he'd be ready today. It's better to maybe wait a while longer let him be in the minors then at some point you let Colon go and let him get his feet wet by being sixth starter sometimes for this season then he'll be ready to be a number 2 or a number 3 come 2012 or 2013. They might be going the Bryce Harper route. Which I don't think is such a bad idea. Bryce Harper is ready to go right now. But, he will probably end up being a September call up. And maybe they are hoping Banuelous is a September call up too.

I think if Harper came up today, he'd get owned for awhile. With pitching, if you have great stuff, you can get away with things. Hitting is different. Harper could come up, but he's gonna be facing savvy veteran pitchers who know how to get guys out. He wouldn't be facing those kinds of guys in the minors, where kids are still developing mechanics and what not.

I agree. No need to rush period. Garcia, Colon, Millwood is the totem pole I'm seeing for the 5th starter role. If that collapses, I can see them trying to acquire a solid, middle to back end innings eater, who, while not a sexy name, can give them quality innings. It's just a matter of who fits that profile that's currently out there.

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.

And for 5/6ths of the season, that leaning resulted in extremely Burnettish numbers.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

Most scouts and baseball people have said he could come up and be a decent pitcher right now in the majors. But he's still really young and only pitched 15 innings above A ball. He needs to get time in the minors to build up his innings count and stuff like that.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

And this really goes back to my other point earlier. With a weak rotation the Yankees will still win a ton of games because of their offense. In June and July when he put up ERAs above 5 he went 6-3.

The Yankees rotation isn't flashy or anything but if the back-end guys (Nova and Garcia) put up average stats this rotation will be better than last years. Obviously assuming CC is CC. I mean Garcia alone last year pitched 18 quality starts, Vasquez had 10. Pitching that many decent games will get these guys wins on the Yankees.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Dragon His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

Thank you for the correction. As such, it turns out that from JUNE 1st on, the most important months of the season, Hughes' ERA was actually over a 5, and that doesn't even factor in the fact that he looked completely lost in the playoffs.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

Who? I went through quick but I found two guys that had better years than Hughes that were 24 or younger - Price and Buchholz. Other guys -

Matusz - 175 IP 4.30 ERA 1.34 WHIP 98 ERA+

Bergeson - 170 IP 4.98 ERA 1.43 WHIP 85 ERA+

Davis - 168 IP 4.07 ERA 1.35 WHIP 97 ERA+

Cecil - 172 IP 4.22 ERA 1.32 WHIP 98 ERA+

Hughes - 176 IP 4.19 ERA 1.24 WHIP 102 ERA+

Like I said, I went through quick so probably missed a guy or two but what about Hughes makes him worse than other 24 year olds in the division. Obviously Price and Buchholz were on another level last year.

I guess unless you are breaking it down to Hughes had two terrible months and other guys didn't. I didn't look that deep into the stats but I'm sure I could find most of these other guys having some terrible months.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

I'm definitely not writing them off, but they got worse than last year. Their replacement for Crawford might be in-house but that doesn't mean he's gonna be putting up Crawford like numbers any time soon.

Their team has a ton of potential obviously but they're breaking in a couple rookies this year. Maybe they go crazy and produce right out of the gates but more likely than not they'll go through some growing pains.

They might have the second best rotation in the division but its not like it doesn't have as many questions as other teams in the division. They have Price who should be great, followed by Shields who was as bad as Burnett last year, two guys who had solid years last year in Davis and Niemann and a rookie in Hellickson. They have a ton of potential but still have questions.

[Evil Vito]

The Mets were bringing their entire Opening Day lineup to Viera today, complete with Beltran in right. Then before the game Bay gets scratched with a ribcage injury and he may start on the DL.

Unreal. The good news is that the DL trip could be backdated and he'd likely only have to miss a week or so, and Luca Duda's having a good spring as his likely replacement anyway. But it just feels like such a kick in the groin/typical Mets luck that as soon as the most injury prone guy on the team is announced as ready for Opening Day, somebody else goes down.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 The Mets were bringing their entire Opening Day lineup to Viera today, complete with Beltran in right. Then before the game Bay gets scratched with a ribcage injury and he may start on the DL. Unreal. The good news is that the DL trip could be backdated and he'd likely only have to miss a week or so, and Luca Duda's having a good spring as his likely replacement anyway. But it just feels like such a kick in the groin/typical Mets luck that as soon as the most injury prone guy on the team is announced as ready for Opening Day, somebody else goes down.

Yeesh. The backdating thing is good news though. I'm wondering how Beltran will hold up. Honestly, RF in Citi Field is no walk in the park. That stadium is huge, and I have a feeling they're going to need to have some built in rest days for Beltran.

Honestly, I don't why they haven't discussed a possible move to 1st base, and wouldn't be surprised to see it go down that way if Beltran stays in the NL after this year. He has more than enough athleticism to play there, and it would prolong his career.

[Evil Vito]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey Yeesh. The backdating thing is good news though. I'm wondering how Beltran will hold up. Honestly, RF in Citi Field is no walk in the park. That stadium is huge, and I have a feeling they're going to need to have some built in rest days for Beltran. Honestly, I don't why they haven't discussed a possible move to 1st base, and wouldn't be surprised to see it go down that way if Beltran stays in the NL after this year. He has more than enough athleticism to play there, and it would prolong his career.

Collins already said Beltran will have built-in off days, he expects him to play 5 out of every 7 games or so - at least until he proves he can handle a full workload. Problem is with Bay gone, the Mets OF on days Beltran is off will be Duda-Pagan-Willie Harris or Scott Hairston. Harris and Hairston have had beast springs but...yeah, it's Spring Training.

It makes sense that they never discussed moving him to 1B though - because Sir Isaac Davis is there. I can't see Beltran as a 1B. If anything I'm sure a team will let him DH if need be. Beltran being healthy and productive in the first half is huge, ditto for Reyes because both are likely to be out the door if the Mets aren't in reasonable striking distance by July (which for Alderson might mean 1-2 games out since I think he's already made up his mind that he's trading them otherwise).

Admittedly, out of the top 6 guys in the order (Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis) if you told me I had to pick one to go without I'd likely say Bay anyway. Still I hope his (seemingly inevitable) DL trip is short.

[Damian Rey]

Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 Collins already said Beltran will have built-in off days, he expects him to play 5 out of every 7 games or so - at least until he proves he can handle a full workload. Problem is with Bay gone, the Mets OF on days Beltran is off will be Duda-Pagan-Willie Harris or Scott Hairston. Harris and Hairston have had beast springs but...yeah, it's Spring Training. It makes sense that they never discussed moving him to 1B though - because Sir Isaac Davis is there. I can't see Beltran as a 1B. If anything I'm sure a team will let him DH if need be. Beltran being healthy and productive in the first half is huge, ditto for Reyes because both are likely to be out the door if the Mets aren't in reasonable striking distance by July (which for Alderson might mean 1-2 games out since I think he's already made up his mind that he's trading them otherwise). Admittedly, out of the top 6 guys in the order (Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis) if you told me I had to pick one to go without I'd likely say Bay anyway. Still I hope his (seemingly inevitable) DL trip is short.

Speaking of Keith Law, I just read what he had ot say about Ike Davis, and I like what I've read. I agree that keeping him at 1st base is the right thing to do.

That's good that the organization is protecting Beltran as much as possible. I think Bay being on the DL hurts, but it's not looking long term so we will see. Scot Hairston's pretty useless. He's adequate defensively, but he's horrible against RHP, especially with breaking balls. He really is a fastball only hitter, and that's only if he knows it's coming, and even then....

Alderson probably got the job and made up his mind he didn't like the majority of what the roster has to offer. I think David Wright needs to be extended long term, as he has been nothing less than a rock for that team. Not having a healthy, dynamic Reyes is going to hurt, too. I think Sandy is going to go the college hitter route to try and get some of those drafted bats fast tracked, like he did in San Diego.

Jays acquire Jayson Nix from the Indians for cash. I'm guessing this was due to Corey Patterson joining Podsednik on the d/l and the Jays not wanting to bring up Thames or Mastronianni and having them sit on the bench.

Hmm, Nix hits .224, has a shitty OBP. Just what we needed.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

well that's at least even with Patterson's numbers

call it a draw

[Vox Populi]

There's been talk of a Liriano deal off and on throughout the offseason, but understandably the Twins are asking big for him.

[Evil Vito]

Luis Castillo released for the 2nd time in a week and a half.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I think most of the panic is that this is the first time in forever that Boston is clearly better than the Yankees. Still think New York makes the playoffs.

[Vox Populi]

Remember, not all of the young AL East starters had their age 24 season last year. For the most obvious example, Lester's age 24 season dusts Hughes' in every conceivable way save run support and inexplicable levels of hype.

And yeah, the other 24 year olds in the division last season were either substantially more consistent that Hughes or finished like future studs, as opposed to blowing their wad 8 weeks in (predominantly against injury depleted and/or mediocre teams at that) and limping to the finish line.

While you're looking at numbers, though, may want to look at Ivan Nova's minor league career and see why the other 4 teams are salivating at the prospect of hitting against this guy 3 or 4 times.

[Dragon]

Obviously if were are comparing Hughes to some of the better pitchers in the game like Lester he doesn't match up. I'm not arguing that.

Going through quick again I don't see where your argument is coming from. Matusz had months with ERAs of 7.50 and 8.10, Bergeson had months with ERAs of 12.19, 11.17 and 6.32, Cecil had months with ERAs of 5.3 and 6.9, Davis had months with ERAs of 6 and 4.74. Not seeing much consistency here.

I'm not getting where you think Hughes pitched his best games against mediocre and injury depleted teams either.

And I know all about Nova. I'm not the biggest Nova fan at all and I'm not expecting him to be great. If he could be a solid 4-5 starter in the bigs I'd be happy.

I guess if you're argument is that other guys ended the season pitching better than Hughes I can't argue. But I don't see how that makes them substantially more consistent. Especially when you look at their ERAs on a monthly basis.

[Vox Populi]

That'd be why I said either/or and not both.

Now, where am I getting that Hughes' 2 months worth a damn were against injured, bad or struggling teams?

Let's see - he pitched against Boston twice, and in one of those appearances they knocked him around. Fell short of a quality start vs. Anaheim, he drew the Orioles in the throes of their April of .250 ball. He got the A's when the A's were all banged up, the White Sox when they were a .400 team due to injuries, the Tigers during a .400 month, the Indians and the Mets - 'nuff said on those 2, I assume. That's not exactly a stellar resume.

[Dragon]

Even if you're talking about "finishing like future studs" I don't see how that makes their seasons better than Hughes'.

Looking at the numbers overall Hughes was better than all of them except Price and Buchholz.

I'm sure I could look through any of these guys hot streaks and find excuses for why the team they were facing weren't good. I'm sure I could go through and find excuses for the end of the year as well. I'm guessing some of these guys faced Boston the last two months when they were a .500 team and hurt by injuries.

[Dragon]

And again you're talking about Hughes' "two good months" and not seeing that most of these other guys had months much much worse than Hughes worst ones.

[Vox Populi]

My whole point is that Hughes has yet to do anything to live up to the fairly insane level of hype or the somewhat blind support that he's received as a #2 starter in the most competitive division in baseball. Yankee fans are talking him up as the next big thing, but in reality he's an extreme fly ball pitcher who pitches to contact in general whose home stadium has a tendency of allowing fly balls to gain wings. One home run per 20 plate appearances at home is a shocking number even for Yankee Stadium.

[OssMan]

who here is going to OPENING DAY

Nationals representing here

[Innovator]

Let's unsticky this. Cmon.