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Old 07-30-2009, 01:36 PM   #1
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Well, I'm not gonna get in an argument about Sox vs Yanks with you. It just saddens me, and not just as a Red Sox fan but as a baseball fan.
I even admitted as much when A Rod's name came out. It's just sad for the game. I wouldn't expect Yankees fans to be that reasonable though. They're loudmouths who don't even like the game that much (not directed at you Inno)
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:38 PM   #2
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Every team has those fans, not just Yankee fans. Hell, Mets fans are worse.

Torii Hunter didn't know? REALLY?
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:42 PM   #3
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Since Red Sox fans gave A-Rod the steroid chant, I hope Ortiz receives nothing less next week
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Since Red Sox fans gave A-Rod the steroid chant, I hope Ortiz receives nothing less next week
Fair enough
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:53 PM   #5
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wow.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:56 PM   #6
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Tori Hunter? What are you referring to Inno? was his name on the list too?
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:26 PM   #7
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I had a feeling he was juicing. Ever since David Ortiz said in that interview that everyone taking steroids should be banned from baseball for a year. When I heard that it made me real suspicious.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:05 PM   #8
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Mike Piazza, Ken Griffey Jr., and Albert Pujols are the only 3 guys I have left. Really hope none of them juiced.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vito 22 View Post
Mike Piazza, Ken Griffey Jr., and Albert Pujols are the only 3 guys I have left. Really hope none of them juiced.
I maintained their innocence. But I also maintained a lot of guys innocence and that shit hit the fan.
I never thought Manny did. Despite my dislike for Arod as a player, I always considered him clean and a saving grace for the home run record.

I would really like to believe Piazza, Griffey and Pujols are clean. For the good of baseball I hope they are. If they weren't the shit will probably hit the fan soon.
I just can't help but doubt everyone now. Even Cal Ripken isn't off limits anymore. I think that would be a huge death blow to the integrity of baseball and the fans.


This all sucks and won't go away. It's not going to anytime soon either. That list has more big names on it.
It has to. If Manny and Ortiz were the last "big news" to come off that list, they'd just release the whole thing.
It's more than just mid-level players on that list. The fact that it's still being divulged one or two at a time shows that there are more "gems" on it.

It will disgust me, but I have a feeling Pujols might be down the line.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
I maintained their innocence. But I also maintained a lot of guys innocence and that shit hit the fan.
I never thought Manny did. Despite my dislike for Arod as a player, I always considered him clean and a saving grace for the home run record.

I would really like to believe Piazza, Griffey and Pujols are clean. For the good of baseball I hope they are. If they weren't the shit will probably hit the fan soon.
I just can't help but doubt everyone now. Even Cal Ripken isn't off limits anymore. I think that would be a huge death blow to the integrity of baseball and the fans.


This all sucks and won't go away. It's not going to anytime soon either. That list has more big names on it.
It has to. If Manny and Ortiz were the last "big news" to come off that list, they'd just release the whole thing.
It's more than just mid-level players on that list. The fact that it's still being divulged one or two at a time shows that there are more "gems" on it.

It will disgust me, but I have a feeling Pujols might be down the line.
If Pujols is on the list, the home run record is tarnished forever. Ever since A-rod's report came out, I've believed that Pujols is the last remaining person to get there legit
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:06 PM   #11
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He'll probably say the same thing as A Rod did. "I stopped taking them in 2003 once the testing came out" or whatever.
Like A Rod, he may even be telling the truth. I hope so. It just sucks because once your name is tainted the cloud of suspicion will always be there.


In Manny's case, he's now a double offender. He tested positive in 03 and again this year.
None of this is any good for anyone's reputation, but I would say he doesn't really have a leg to stand on now. Such a great hitter too. He was a first ballot hall of famer no doubt.

This is all just a shame. The only real consolation to any fan who feels upset about their team/players being linked is that a high percentage of players on all teams were involved. Not an excuse, but a sad state of affairs.

What I think sucks most about all this steroid stuff (which seems like it will never end) is that it's the fans who pay. The players do the crime, and they get exposed in the media, but they keep their big contracts and their awards and they mostly don't care.
It's the fans who get punished.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:08 PM   #12
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YES! Fuck Big Papi. I knew it. No way do you go from a scrub DH with the Twins to the most feared hitter in baseball. Fuck the Sox. All the shit we get for Arod and Giambi...now its your turn
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:12 PM   #13
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god, can you imagine being one of these guys who has juiced, but nobody knows and just sitting there waiting to see if your name gets released. It's got to be eating people up inside. Like Ortiz before his name got released today
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:14 PM   #14
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At least the Yanks didnt win any Steriod driven rings....god I hate the Red Sox. Now if only some mets come out as roiders, so they can shut the fuck up too
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
At least the Yanks didnt win any Steriod driven rings....god I hate the Red Sox. Now if only some mets come out as roiders, so they can shut the fuck up too
You did, but I'm not going to get into this. Are you implying that steroid use wasn't rampant in 1998, 1999, and 2000? That's when it was at it's peak.
All of the teams in the majors had juicing players, and you can't fault the team for the actions of individuals.

The actions of players really only tarnishes individual stats and accomplishments, or the sport as a whole.
You can't pick and choose what rings and wins count seeing as players from both sides were using steroids. That includes pitchers.

We can boo A Rod and Ortiz and assault their character all we want. That's fair as fans. But I've never once heard fans start going after teams as a whole, which is ridiculous.
If you're going to do that, you have to apply it to the entire steroid era. That goes back to the early 90s.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
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At least the Yanks didnt win any Steriod driven rings....god I hate the Red Sox. Now if only some mets come out as roiders, so they can shut the fuck up too


The Mets had Kirk Radomski, though.
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Old 07-30-2009, 07:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
At least the Yanks didnt win any Steriod driven rings....god I hate the Red Sox. Now if only some mets come out as roiders, so they can shut the fuck up too
I think its the 2000 title vs the Mets that is the one people believe is tainted due to how many roiders Yankees had on the team or were part of it during that year.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:17 PM   #18
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Maybe thats why he played so shitty earlier in the year. I mean think about it from a psychological stand point. A-rod's name gets released in that report, and Manny gets busted, so Papi has to be worried that his name will come out eventually. Eventually he just says Fuck it and just starts playing again.

Not saying that's the reason for his slump early on, but it could be a factor. Remember there was all that talk that the list would be released and then in early June, it was dropped. No one talked about "The List" until now
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:19 PM   #19
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And why is Pete Rose still banned?
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:22 PM   #20
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It's an interesting topic. Rose is banned for something that happened a long time ago for cheating the game and making money. Players who roid cheat the game and still make money. It would be very harsh, but a lifetime ban for players who roid
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:28 PM   #21
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Honestly Hanso, that was retarded but I'd rather not get into a Sox vs Yankees argument here.

There were roiders on all of the world series winning Yankees teams since 96, just as there were on every world series winning team since the problem began. Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox, Marlins, Diamonbacks...take your pick.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:30 PM   #22
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I would love to hear Schilling's comments on all this. He's got a pretty stern stance on the guys who have been caught. It would be very interesting to see what he has to say
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:46 PM   #23
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I would love to hear Schilling's comments on all this. He's got a pretty stern stance on the guys who have been caught. It would be very interesting to see what he has to say
When it comes out I'm sure he will sound like an asshole. Schilling is a huge dickhead with a very strong opinion about everything and anything. Fitting he backed a Republican Presidential candidate
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:35 PM   #24
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I'm disappointed to see that Ortiz was on the list, but honestly I am numb to the steroid scandal. I have accepted that they have been a part of the game for a very long time. The only thing that would absolutely shock me would be if Ripken, Griffey, and Gwynn admitted to using.
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:40 PM   #25
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I'm disappointed to see that Ortiz was on the list, but honestly I am numb to the steroid scandal. I have accepted that they have been a part of the game for a very long time. The only thing that would absolutely shock me would be if Ripken, Griffey, and Gwynn admitted to using.
Who's a bigger candidate for a bigger shocker: Pujols or Ripken or Griffey?
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:35 PM   #26
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I agree LC. I want to hear what Schilling says too

LC, I'd like to hear your thoughts on Hanso's claims about the Yankees never winning a steroid tainted World Series ring, or the overall notion that the witch-hunt should extend into teams as a whole and whether world series wins "count" or not.

Do you agree with him as a bitter yankees fan? Or do you agree that it should stay to the invidual since members of all teams were involved?
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:49 PM   #27
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I agree LC. I want to hear what Schilling says too

LC, I'd like to hear your thoughts on Hanso's claims about the Yankees never winning a steroid tainted World Series ring, or the overall notion that the witch-hunt should extend into teams as a whole and whether world series wins "count" or not.

Do you agree with him as a bitter yankees fan? Or do you agree that it should stay to the invidual since members of all teams were involved?
nah, steroids have been there forever in my opinion, so I know the Yankees had players juicing when they won

I'm not that kind of Yankee fan that just likes to say shit about Boston all the time. I am a baseball fan. I mean, I don't like the Sox, but I kind of got out of the whole "Yankees Rule, Sox suck" phase
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Old 07-30-2009, 02:41 PM   #28
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I think the level of shock would go Ripken, Griffey, Pujols. Ripken would be the most shocking, and Pujols the least.
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:47 PM   #29
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I think the level of shock would go Ripken, Griffey, Pujols. Ripken would be the most shocking, and Pujols the least.
Ripken never got tested (he left before the tests started) so hopefully if he did use steroids he keeps his trap shut about it, because that would be devastating.

Griffey wouldnt be shocking at all given the amount of injuries in the later part of his career when presumably he would have been off them.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:20 PM   #30
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lol @ The Miz from nowhere

This doesn't surprise me and is 'sad' from a 'baseball fan' point of view, but still lol@ Ortiz
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:25 PM   #31
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Mets have held the Rockies scoreless in their last 22 innings, and are now on a 5-game winning streak after this afternoon's game. Johan
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:41 PM   #32
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Hate the Mets.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:25 PM   #33
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George Sherill is traded to the Dodgers.


Thank you Baltimore for killing more of my fantasy team
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:27 PM   #34
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Manny and Big Papi popped positive, oh the irony. Remember when the Mitchell Report got released, and every team had somebody on the report, but Boston came out of it unscathed?

Karma's a bitch.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:46 PM   #35
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You can't just look at the championships either. You have to look at the teams defeated. It's not as though the teams the Red Sox, Yankees, or any other championship team from the era BEAT didn't have steroid users. Please. You can't just ignore the whole epidemic and focus on 2 guys, regardless of what they did.

So is it better to have lost while having steroid users than win? Are they any more guilty because they beat other tainted teams?
It's hard to look at it so black and white.

There's also different levels of performance enhancers. Don't know what the full story is. I'm not making excuses. His name is now tainted and it sucks, but I'm not entirely convinced that he was using them on the level of a Bonds or McGwire, nor am I convinced that he was using them from 2004 onward.
I'm not saying he didn't. Due to the boy who cried wolf factor you have to say he probably was, but there is also such thing as isolated incidents and mistakes.

Rationally thinking, I find it hard to believe that anyone would use steroids from 2004 onward. 2003 was when the whole steroid blew up, and any reasonable human being who was using them, or something close to it, would stop. That's why I'm inclined to believe Ortiz and even A Rod when they say they've been clean since then. Doesn't absolve them of what they did, but I guess I give the benefit of the doubt that they have a shred of common sense. Even a moron would know not to continue.

But there are some stupid people....
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:49 PM   #36
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While I'll admit before this whole steroid era was brought to light I kinda gave guys the benefit of the doubt but did anyone really think Trot Nixon wasn't on the sauce during his run with the Red Sox? It was pretty fucking obvious
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:52 PM   #37
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Also, this will be hot potato between markets. Boston's on the hot seat today, but the buck will pass.
There's no way this list's biggest names are out yet. They're being released systematically, with curious timing. Whoever's doing it is an evil genius. If there were no more "draws" on that list, it would just be released. Publications aren't going to pay big bucks for mid-level players breaking news.
The biggest tricks on the list are yet to be revealed. You have to imagine there are names on there squirreled away for a rainy day in the media.

It's just common sense. There will be more heartbreakers on that list, and if they're being saved for last they must be pretty crushing.

So to the Yanks fans who are having their day, don't be suprised when Derek Jeter has his day on the hotseat.
I'm not saying he's on the list. I hope to god he's not. I have some respect for the sport. I would be just as upset about Jeter on the list as I feel most Yankee fans who aren't base and jealous should feel about Ortiz.
But he'll probably be the final reveal....and Pujols.
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:32 PM   #38
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Also, this will be hot potato between markets. Boston's on the hot seat today, but the buck will pass.
There's no way this list's biggest names are out yet. They're being released systematically, with curious timing. Whoever's doing it is an evil genius. If there were no more "draws" on that list, it would just be released. Publications aren't going to pay big bucks for mid-level players breaking news.
The biggest tricks on the list are yet to be revealed. You have to imagine there are names on there squirreled away for a rainy day in the media.
Guarantee you this is how it will exactly be occurring especially with rival teams since nobody likes to be shown up by a rival's team or fans. So unless MLB just ends this mess and publishes the list, its going to be one of those "Roid Team of the Month" news.

The way the names are being released, the last set of names defiantly will be the mega names (like a Jeter or Pujols quality player).
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:56 PM   #39
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Canseco came out today and said he wasn't suprised. That's not very shocking since he buzzes around this pile of shit like a fly.
But he does have the "I told you so" factor on his side. He has been right about everything thus far. He's an asshole, but an honest asshole.
I bet Baseball's wishing they never blackballed him and pissed him off the way they did. He really has gotten his revenge.


Interestingly enough, he threw out another vague remark to cast more suspicion and accusation...he says that someone who's already in the HoF was a user, but didn't name a name.
I believe him, because he seems to tell the truth and know what he's talking about on the subject. But who?
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:46 PM   #40
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If I had to guess it would either be Ripken, Gwynn or Rickey Henderson.


And in a shocker, I'll go with Ripken
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