MLB 2010-2011 Off Season Thread

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey They "acquired" him via the Rule 4 draft. His name is Phillip Hughes. I don't think he's lights out, but after CC and Pettite, he was there to lean on.

And for 5/6ths of the season, that leaning resulted in extremely Burnettish numbers.

[Hardkore Kidd J]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I think if Harper came up today, he'd get owned for awhile. With pitching, if you have great stuff, you can get away with things. Hitting is different. Harper could come up, but he's gonna be facing savvy veteran pitchers who know how to get guys out. He wouldn't be facing those kinds of guys in the minors, where kids are still developing mechanics and what not. I agree. No need to rush period. Garcia, Colon, Millwood is the totem pole I'm seeing for the 5th starter role. If that collapses, I can see them trying to acquire a solid, middle to back end innings eater, who, while not a sexy name, can give them quality innings. It's just a matter of who fits that profile that's currently out there.

Yeah, I'm not expecting any "Sexy names" Most of them would be damn near impossible to get anyway (Hernandez, JJ, Cain, Lincecum, etc.etc.etc.)

All though I would prefer one of our minors pulling the job if one of them doesn't work out but they can't really be an "Innings eater" Someone has gotta stick though. With Garcia, Colon, Millwood, and even Prior. I hardly doubt that all 4 of them will fail at the same time. If they do then we go out and find someone. But we got 4 guys. One of them I think is gonna stick. I could be wrong I hope not. But, if I am we have got other choices like trading.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Damian Rey I'll have to do some more digging on him, then. Could've sworn I read somewhere that he could come up and pitch for the Yankees today. I'll have to scour my Keith Law prospect rankings. I don't think Montero going down is such a bad thing. Let him get some time in AAA to get going and build his confidence back up, and when he's ready, he will get his chance.

Most scouts and baseball people have said he could come up and be a decent pitcher right now in the majors. But he's still really young and only pitched 15 innings above A ball. He needs to get time in the minors to build up his innings count and stuff like that.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Wait, when did they acquire a second reliable starter? Burnett takes all of the heat, but after April last year, Hughes was putting up extremely comparable numbers to him.

His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

And this really goes back to my other point earlier. With a weak rotation the Yankees will still win a ton of games because of their offense. In June and July when he put up ERAs above 5 he went 6-3.

The Yankees rotation isn't flashy or anything but if the back-end guys (Nova and Garcia) put up average stats this rotation will be better than last years. Obviously assuming CC is CC. I mean Garcia alone last year pitched 18 quality starts, Vasquez had 10. Pitching that many decent games will get these guys wins on the Yankees.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I think most of the panic is that this is the first time in forever that Boston is clearly better than the Yankees. Still think New York makes the playoffs.

[Vox Populi]

Originally Posted by Dragon His May ERA was 3.00. June and July he struggled putting up ERAs above 5. August - 4.22 and September - 4.85 ERA.

Thank you for the correction. As such, it turns out that from JUNE 1st on, the most important months of the season, Hughes' ERA was actually over a 5, and that doesn't even factor in the fact that he looked completely lost in the playoffs.

He really only had those two terrible months. He was definitely inconsistent but for a 24 year old in the AL East thats not too bad.

Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a little too confident in the Yankees than I should be but I don't think so. Boston took huge steps forward but TB took big steps back. And I really don't think Baltimore or Toronto are ready to make a run.

Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Except for the fact that when you compare it to other AL East starters' age 24 seasons, it actually is.

Who? I went through quick but I found two guys that had better years than Hughes that were 24 or younger - Price and Buchholz. Other guys -

Matusz - 175 IP 4.30 ERA 1.34 WHIP 98 ERA+

Bergeson - 170 IP 4.98 ERA 1.43 WHIP 85 ERA+

Davis - 168 IP 4.07 ERA 1.35 WHIP 97 ERA+

Cecil - 172 IP 4.22 ERA 1.32 WHIP 98 ERA+

Hughes - 176 IP 4.19 ERA 1.24 WHIP 102 ERA+

Like I said, I went through quick so probably missed a guy or two but what about Hughes makes him worse than other 24 year olds in the division. Obviously Price and Buchholz were on another level last year.

I guess unless you are breaking it down to Hughes had two terrible months and other guys didn't. I didn't look that deep into the stats but I'm sure I could find most of these other guys having some terrible months.

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Vox Populi Tampa's "big steps back" still leaves them holding, at worst, the second best rotation in the division, and the new bullpen isn't chicken feed by any means. They lost Crawford, but his eventual replacement has been in-house all along. It'd be foolish to write them off, much less out of contention.

I'm definitely not writing them off, but they got worse than last year. Their replacement for Crawford might be in-house but that doesn't mean he's gonna be putting up Crawford like numbers any time soon.

Their team has a ton of potential obviously but they're breaking in a couple rookies this year. Maybe they go crazy and produce right out of the gates but more likely than not they'll go through some growing pains.

They might have the second best rotation in the division but its not like it doesn't have as many questions as other teams in the division. They have Price who should be great, followed by Shields who was as bad as Burnett last year, two guys who had solid years last year in Davis and Niemann and a rookie in Hellickson. They have a ton of potential but still have questions.

[Vox Populi]

Remember, not all of the young AL East starters had their age 24 season last year. For the most obvious example, Lester's age 24 season dusts Hughes' in every conceivable way save run support and inexplicable levels of hype.

And yeah, the other 24 year olds in the division last season were either substantially more consistent that Hughes or finished like future studs, as opposed to blowing their wad 8 weeks in (predominantly against injury depleted and/or mediocre teams at that) and limping to the finish line.

While you're looking at numbers, though, may want to look at Ivan Nova's minor league career and see why the other 4 teams are salivating at the prospect of hitting against this guy 3 or 4 times.

[Dragon]

Obviously if were are comparing Hughes to some of the better pitchers in the game like Lester he doesn't match up. I'm not arguing that.

Going through quick again I don't see where your argument is coming from. Matusz had months with ERAs of 7.50 and 8.10, Bergeson had months with ERAs of 12.19, 11.17 and 6.32, Cecil had months with ERAs of 5.3 and 6.9, Davis had months with ERAs of 6 and 4.74. Not seeing much consistency here.

I'm not getting where you think Hughes pitched his best games against mediocre and injury depleted teams either.

And I know all about Nova. I'm not the biggest Nova fan at all and I'm not expecting him to be great. If he could be a solid 4-5 starter in the bigs I'd be happy.

I guess if you're argument is that other guys ended the season pitching better than Hughes I can't argue. But I don't see how that makes them substantially more consistent. Especially when you look at their ERAs on a monthly basis.

[Vox Populi]

That'd be why I said either/or and not both.

Now, where am I getting that Hughes' 2 months worth a damn were against injured, bad or struggling teams?

Let's see - he pitched against Boston twice, and in one of those appearances they knocked him around. Fell short of a quality start vs. Anaheim, he drew the Orioles in the throes of their April of .250 ball. He got the A's when the A's were all banged up, the White Sox when they were a .400 team due to injuries, the Tigers during a .400 month, the Indians and the Mets - 'nuff said on those 2, I assume. That's not exactly a stellar resume.

[Dragon]

Even if you're talking about "finishing like future studs" I don't see how that makes their seasons better than Hughes'.

Looking at the numbers overall Hughes was better than all of them except Price and Buchholz.

I'm sure I could look through any of these guys hot streaks and find excuses for why the team they were facing weren't good. I'm sure I could go through and find excuses for the end of the year as well. I'm guessing some of these guys faced Boston the last two months when they were a .500 team and hurt by injuries.

[Dragon]

And again you're talking about Hughes' "two good months" and not seeing that most of these other guys had months much much worse than Hughes worst ones.

[Vox Populi]

My whole point is that Hughes has yet to do anything to live up to the fairly insane level of hype or the somewhat blind support that he's received as a #2 starter in the most competitive division in baseball. Yankee fans are talking him up as the next big thing, but in reality he's an extreme fly ball pitcher who pitches to contact in general whose home stadium has a tendency of allowing fly balls to gain wings. One home run per 20 plate appearances at home is a shocking number even for Yankee Stadium.

[OssMan]

who here is going to OPENING DAY

Nationals representing here

[Innovator]

Let's unsticky this. Cmon.