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Old 04-04-2016, 12:20 AM   #1721
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Ok show. Takeover was better. Didn't see Kalisto/Ryback but don't think I missed anything. AJ/Jericho was good, not sure if the feud continues or not. New Day/ LoN was what is was just a set up for the legends. Women had the best match of the show I think. Brock and Ambrose was short but good. Think Corbin still need time in NXT but I'd say he's moving up after tonight. Taker promised blood and there was no blood but a pretty good match. Reigns winning was pretty predictable.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:21 AM   #1722
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Is Heyman revealing that he's actually The CyNick? I think he is.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:21 AM   #1723
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Kalisto/Ryback was a very vanilla match. Honestly felt like a dark match (which in a way it kind of was)
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:21 AM   #1724
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Tomorrow's crowd is going to be foaming at the mouth to let them know how they feel.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:22 AM   #1725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
all of this sounds logical and understandable but then you look at the main event that just happened

Wyatt has flaws of course, but Reigns has shown nothing that warrants him getting the push he has

(hence every single person's problem with the whole affair)
Granted, I didn't watch the show.

However - why have guys like Paul Heyman, Steve Austin, etc. all had interviews stating that Reigns is a very good wrestler?

Guys like Heyman and Austin point to the fact that the WWE need to let Reigns act more naturally on the mic, etc., as opposed to critiquing his wrestling. Austin advocates a heel turn for Reigns, but flat out states that Reigns' "brings it" from the wrestling side of things.

Guys like Paul Heyman and Austin always tell it like it is.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:23 AM   #1726
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Also, I have no problems with Jericho beating Styles.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:23 AM   #1727
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SPOILER: show


and good night
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:23 AM   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Bottom line for tonight's show is the standard WWE: One step forward, two steps back.
two steps back seems way too conservative to me
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:23 AM   #1729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Tomorrow's crowd is going to be foaming at the mouth to let them know how they feel.
More the reason to have Reigns' finish off the show as champ.

Controversy sells.

Kudos to the WWE for responding correctly to the trollish fans.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:24 AM   #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
Granted, I didn't watch the show.

However - why have guys like Paul Heyman, Steve Austin, etc. all had interviews stating that Reigns is a very good wrestler?

Guys like Heyman and Austin point to the fact that the WWE need to let Reigns act more naturally on the mic, etc., as opposed to critiquing his wrestling. Austin advocates a heel turn for Reigns, but flat out states that Reigns' "brings it" from the wrestling side of things.

Guys like Paul Heyman and Austin always tell it like it is.
I understand their opinions have more weight because their perspective is MUCH more informed than ours, but it's still just their opinion, so I personally can't say they "tell it like it is" but more so "they tell it how they feel it is"

edit: also, Im not saying I disagree with them, or with you.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:25 AM   #1731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
Granted, I didn't watch the show.

However - why have guys like Paul Heyman, Steve Austin, etc. all had interviews stating that Reigns is a very good wrestler?

Guys like Heyman and Austin point to the fact that the WWE need to let Reigns act more naturally on the mic, etc., as opposed to critiquing his wrestling. Austin advocates a heel turn for Reigns, but flat out states that Reigns' "brings it" from the wrestling side of things.

Guys like Paul Heyman and Austin always tell it like it is.
I'm sure he is capable, but the way the WWE has packaged him has given the crowd no reason to care whether or not he is a decent wrestler.

If he needs a mouthpiece, then give him one. When he was with the Shield, he was "shielded" (ha ha!) from having to speak because Rollins did the talking and he was just "the muscle" and it worked.

If they have to go the Heyman/Lesnar route with him, then friggin' do it.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:26 AM   #1732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Tomorrow's crowd is going to be foaming at the mouth to let them know how they feel.
That's actually what I was looking forward to tonight. The crowd just shitting on Reigns. They ended up being way more apathetic than I expected though. Which is much worse.

Though that could have been WWE fucking with the audio since apparently a lot of people were saying they heard piped in cheers and weird audio changes.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:26 AM   #1733
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For some crazy reason i want to see Reigns vs Corbin. Probably get KO vs Reigns first
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:28 AM   #1734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
I'm sure he is capable, but the way the WWE has packaged him has given the crowd no reason to care whether or not he is a decent wrestler.

If he needs a mouthpiece, then give him one. When he was with the Shield, he was "shielded" (ha ha!) from having to speak because Rollins did the talking and he was just "the muscle" and it worked.

If they have to go the Heyman/Lesnar route with him, then friggin' do it.
I can agree with that.

You can turn Reigns heel and give him a mouthpiece.

For some reason, the guy I have in mind is Eric Bischoff but I realize that this will never happen.

Would be pretty cool to see Bischoff being Reigns' manager, and then having them go up against a face Lesnar/Heyman at some point.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:28 AM   #1735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
SPOILER: show


and good night
That might just be the best sell of the Stunner ever... even better than The Rock
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:29 AM   #1736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
More the reason to have Reigns' finish off the show as champ.

Controversy sells.

Kudos to the WWE for responding correctly to the trollish fans.
I don't think that's what's going on. First, fans aren't trolling. They're vocalizing their displeasure with the show and product in general. Part of the perils of a live audience.

Second, they have a business to run. If the customer hates the current product they are at greater risk of cancelling. They are lucky the cost is so low, otherwise people would be much more willing to cancel. God help them if they decide to increase the price even two dollars in its current state.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:29 AM   #1737
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Awww....
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:34 AM   #1738
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Match of the night: The women's title match
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:34 AM   #1739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owenbrown View Post
That might just be the best sell of the Stunner ever... even better than The Rock
And more importantly, was a solid "Wrestlemania moment."

It baffles me that people think the League of Nations will not benefit in any way from this experience. To each their own I guess.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:35 AM   #1740
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:35 AM   #1741
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Well the ladder match was super exciting with some brutal spots and an awesome finish.

Jericho/AJ seemed off to me, just like all of their matches. Jericho has lost a step or two and it shows so bad.

New Day/Lads was fun, and the finish was pretty cool. HBK looked awesome.

Women's match was really good, one of the best matches on the show.

Shane/Taker was boring to me. That spot was stupid and I'm sorry to say, makes Shane look like a fucking idiot.

Lesnar/Ambrose was your generic WWE street fight, major let down for me.

Battle Royal was cool for Shaq but then the rest was lame.

Main event was carried by Triple H being fucking increadible, but ruined by the obvious choice.

Overall, I'd say the worst Wrestlemania in a LONG time. Usually there is at least one match that is four stars or over, I'd say maybe the ladder match is 4 stars.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:35 AM   #1742
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I would just like to know the rational behind why they went with that main event. If they have a plan and have done market research and determined that this is the best way because Roman tests well with whatever their target audience is, then I at least would understand where their heads are at. If it's just Vince and some yes men in a room saying "Roman has got the look, he's the guy. I just know it," then anyone who owns stock should be selling asap.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:37 AM   #1743
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Sup Dawgs?

I know you all missed my presence/presents here in this thread tonight. Had a Co-Worker over to watch Mania, and thus was not actively posting.

Thought overall it was an "a'ight" show. Lots of strange decisions (Ryder winning, New Day Losing, Ambrose once again looking ineffective) but overall the matches were good.

Best match was probably the Women's Match..... Shane/Taker good too, but felt that was more due to "big stunts".....
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:37 AM   #1744
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Shane and taker couldn't go last. You couldn't end wrestlemania with Shane being stretchered out.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:40 AM   #1745
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If you had told me during the Kelly Kelly era that the best match of a WM was going to be a woman's match, I would have thrown you out of a window for saying such blasphemy. Yet, here we are.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:45 AM   #1746
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Everyone should go watch Shinsuke Nakamura ' s entrance 5 or 29 times and meet back here after for some better vibes.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:05 AM   #1747
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After Raw I'm gonna take off for a while and give wrestling a break. I've been watching for 23 years, and it "breaks my heart" not to follow the product, but I think I'm just worn out and not interested anymore.

The ladder match was good... but seeing multi-man ladder matches every year has kinda gotten dull. I feel like we're not really getting anything new any more. And when Miz climbed the ladder two minutes into the match, was on the third rung and didn't hop down when the ladder was tipped over... come on please, a bit of realism would be nice. Ryder winning was an amazing surprise, but I doubt it'll go anywhere. Was probably done for the "miracle ending" feel-good moment. Ryder will likely lose it tonight.

Styles vs. Jericho was good. I don't mind Jericho winning, as AJ will still get a rub from this.

New Day vs. League of Nations was alright for what it was. New Day are so over it's insane. Didn't like the post match stuff though. I'm sure if I was in the stadium I'd mark the fuck out hearing the glass shatter or the car crash, but when you're seeing it on TV for the millionth time it's so boring and just doesn't excite me anymore. Four guys in their prime couldn't handle a limping Mick Foley, an HBK who hasn't wrestled in six years or a fat, out of shape Austin who looked as though he could barely do the Stunner.

A decent drawn-out program puts guys over. Foley's feud with Orton helped Orton in 2004 because it showcased what Orton could bring to the table. Even if Orton has lost the feud, he'd have benefited from the program. But out-of-shape, old legends coming back and just squashing young guys in their primes doesn't really put anyone over, and it's been done so many times.

Lesnar vs. Ambrose was going well, but kinda ended way too soon and seemed pretty tame and uneventful. A HUGE let down. Was hoping Ambrose would really push Lesnar to the limit, but off the top of my head right now I can barely remember any spots.

Women's title match...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin
If you have told me during the Kelly Kelly era that the best match of a WM was going to be a woman's match, I would have thrown you out of a window for saying such blasphemy. Yet, here we are.
Brilliant match! Fast-paced, action-packed with some fun spots and a real competitive vibe. Have never given a fuck about the "divas", but this was the best match of the night. Well done women!

Hell in a Cell was alright but would have been better ten years ago. I really want Undertaker to fuck off but nope, I fear we have a few more years of fat 'Taker matches.

Battle Royal... meh.

Main event... absolute bullshit. Boring as fuck. Triple H is only as good as the guy he's working with, and Reigns is, well... Reigns.

I'm bored of Wrestlemania squash matches for the sake of trying to break records. I'm tired of legends always coming back and squashing modern talent. The Rock's shit goes down the same every time... his words towards Bray Wyatt and the inevitable beating the Wyatts would get (and the League of Nations stuff) reads as "you're good. You've got the talent, the charisma... but you'll never be better than the Attitude Era guys". The Wyatts aren't gonna get any kind of rub from this, it's been done so many times now. I'm bored.

I'll watch Raw, post-Mania shows are usually the best shows of the year, but if something holy batshit crazy insane doesn't happen to excite me, I'm gonna take a few months off and maybe I'll get more interested again. So disappointed.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:11 AM   #1748
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You should watch Takeover as a palate cleanser before your hiatus, Rammy.

Or, at least, Zayn/Nakamura from entrances to pinfall.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:14 AM   #1749
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I don't have an issue with the Foley/HBK/Austin bit with LON. Mainly because outside of Barrett (who's apparently leaving soon) Rusev, Alberto and Sheamus all have the combined charisma of wet towels. Sure, they're all solid hands in the ring, but for as long as they've been around, none of them (outside of MAYBE Barret) have even a hint of future main eventer in them.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:20 AM   #1750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyman View Post
Why aren't more people happy to see Ryder going over big time?.........or that Kalisto guy getting a solid win over Ryback?

Can't please em' all?
In the case of Kalisto, and kind of related to your theory of sharing air-time with legends, I think it's more a case of the quality of what we're seeing, rather than the fact we're seeing it.

Kalisto has two wins over Ryback now, clean. Should be a big deal, but nobody really gives a fuck because the matches were pretty boring. I like both guys, but long matches do not favor Ryback, especially when his opponent is a midget who he should be eating for breakfast.

Likewise for Kalisto, they would probably be able to showcase him better, working in matches where he can fly around a bit and show what he can do, rather than going in matches with guys who's matches shouldn't last more than two minutes.

As for the legends thing, it's like I said above about Foley/Orton. Even if Orton had lost that feud in 2004, it'd have showcased what he could do and give him some legit exposure. Being squashed by a legend can have it's place, but when it happens EVERY FUCKING TIME it's basically saying "you'll never be as good as the Attitude Era guys". Just for once, I'd love to see Rock or Austin or someone get in a guy like Bray Wyatt's face, and for Wyatt to just hit the Sister Abigail and walk off, without being made to look like a bitch.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:22 AM   #1751
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I'll have to remember to save & print out this thread & read it while watching this WM over again in the future. The stuff in here is amazing!



I think one of the problems is that we (IWC) collectively talked ourselves into the idea that "no, Reigns winning as the main event is a bad decision and anything other than that match should close." We hyped ourselves in thinking that something, anything big would happen to prevent the inevitable finish we all saw coming. Then, they turn around and do it anyway and we are now completely let down from our own hype.

Do I think this WM was bad? Yes & No. I entered the night with very little expectations. There were some good matches, but a lot of stupid finishes with wrong winners. Zayn, Sasha, and AJ should have all been winners in their matches. Period. Ambrose IMO should have won against Lesnar, but if he was going to lose, make it a viable loss. That "street fight" was anything but a street fight. Taker winning honestly leaves next to nothing in a storyline that was starting to push forward with interesting alternatives. Everything else on the card seemed bland and too much of a Raw filler.

I still think it wasn't that great as a whole, but it could have been worse. Far from the worst Mania, but no where near the best.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:22 AM   #1752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
You should watch Takeover as a palate cleanser before your hiatus, Rammy.

Or, at least, Zayn/Nakamura from entrances to pinfall.
I love NXT, but when it all comes down to it, WWE IS pro-wrestling as far as I'm concerned. I need to either shut off wrestling for a while and just see how I feel, or continue watching whilst feeling nothing but disappointment and boredom.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:30 AM   #1753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCrippyZ View Post
I don't have an issue with the Foley/HBK/Austin bit with LON. Mainly because outside of Barrett (who's apparently leaving soon) Rusev, Alberto and Sheamus all have the combined charisma of wet towels. Sure, they're all solid hands in the ring, but for as long as they've been around, none of them (outside of MAYBE Barret) have even a hint of future main eventer in them.
Nobody said that any of them need to be main eventers, but it's the same reminder every single time, that todays superstars are inferior to those of the past. None of them will ever really achieve anything if they're constantly bitched out to old, out-of-shape fat guys (and HBK).
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:30 AM   #1754
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Quote:
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In the case of Kalisto, and kind of related to your theory of sharing air-time with legends, I think it's more a case of the quality of what we're seeing, rather than the fact we're seeing it.

Kalisto has two wins over Ryback now, clean. Should be a big deal, but nobody really gives a fuck because the matches were pretty boring. I like both guys, but long matches do not favor Ryback, especially when his opponent is a midget who he should be eating for breakfast.
I agree. It's similar to them pushing Reigns and Cena (at least in the past) as underdogs. Cena looks more than capable, especially when he always over comes the odds... and ESPECIALLY Reigns, who looks like pretty much a bad ass, mother fucking, ass kicker, who probably doesn't actually need to talk much to get over, ala Goldberg, Taker, Kane, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
when it happens EVERY FUCKING TIME it's basically saying "you'll never be as good as the Attitude Era guys". Just for once, I'd love to see Rock or Austin or someone get in a guy like Bray Wyatt's face, and for Wyatt to just hit the Sister Abigail and walk off, without being made to look like a bitch.
I agree, it's been over done to the point it's become an issue, where it's actively preventing newer talent from getting over or reaching the level of the past stars. Unfortunately, Vince doesn't seem to care enough to realize this and/or do something different.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:35 AM   #1755
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Enjoyed the show, even if I didn't agree with some of the decisions.

Ladder match was fun, but then they always are. I actually had kind of a gut feeling Ryder might win, as he has been winning more matches lately and delivered a phenomenal promo on wwe.com. Also figured Zayn vs Owen feud could continue without the title by sami taking owens out of the match, which is what ended up happening. Anyway, super happy for Ryder. Guy totally deserves it.

AJ and Jericho had their best match yet, but something still feels a little off. I honestly think it's Jericho being older and slower these days. It looked like they were on two different speeds. And my god will anyone be able to take Styles' springboard reverse DDT without botching it? Still a really good match, and I don't mind Jericho winning. As someone else said earlier, at some point Jericho needs to get a win or else beating him doesn't mean anything.

Divas match stole the show at wrestlemania. Still feels surreal, but those are the facts. Flair's interference in the finish didn't bother me that much as it wasn't direct interference like in previous matches. Charlotte still made becky tap all on her own. I would have preferred a becky or sasha win here, but I'm okay with charlotte retaining. She's earned a long reign.

Ambrose vs Lesnar was fun, but it was really short. And I don't see the point in Lesnar winning at all. Especially since Lesnar was almost completely dominant in the build up. It does literally nothing for lesnar, when a win could have done worlds for dean. I actually think that given Dean used every weapon he could and Lesnar barely used any if at all, and then Dean got dropped by one f-5, he comes out looking weaker than when he went in. Granted, it was an f-5 on chairs but we're talking about a semi-main eventer who's whole tagline going into the event was that he was indestructible, and Lesnar couldn't keep him down no matter what he did.

New Day vs LON was just kinda there for me. Some cool spots. Like everyone else though, I couldn't care less about LON so it kind of hindered my enjoyment. Marked out for the new day entrance though. Legends kicking ass was cool.

HIAC match was a decent spotfest. Obviously, shane diving off was insane. Not much else to say about it.

Corbin winning the battle royale was cool.

HHH match was okay I guess. HHH entrance was great, but steph's monologue reeked of trying desperately to get some last minute heat. Good lord was she looking hot though. Also found it funny that the only time Reigns got a pop was when he speared steph. Guess to get reigns over he's just got to beat on some women.

So yeah, enjoyed it, but I definitely enjoyed Takeover more.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:36 AM   #1756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad View Post
Nobody said that any of them need to be main eventers, but it's the same reminder every single time, that todays superstars are inferior to those of the past. None of them will ever really achieve anything if they're constantly bitched out to old, out-of-shape fat guys (and HBK).
I don't have as much of an issue with the Austin/HBK/Foley bit because I don't think the LON guys are or ever will be on the same level as Austin/HBK/Foley.

To me, Rock (and I'm not sure if it's his decision or Vince's necessarily) never really works long term with young guys to put them over anymore. If Rock or Vince think that just being in a segment with him is enough to get that person over, they're mistaken. If he comes back and does what he did tonight with someone like Bray, and it leads to something more substantial, like Bray going over Rock in a match, that'd be a different story, obviously.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:39 AM   #1757
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In the case of the legends stuff, even if you take away the context of "putting guys over" etc, it's just boring as hell coz it's the same thing every time. The last two Rock appearances you had the New Day and the Wyatts come out respectively, and both times I'm just rolling my eyes coz I know what's coming and how it'll go down.

My God how much I would freak out with excitement if the Wyatt's didn't take kindly to Rock's words and gave him a beat down. Would it be a great, happy, feel-good Wrestlemania moment? Probably not. But fuck me it would be totally out of the box and would get me interested because it's something unexpected.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:42 AM   #1758
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Quote:
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I don't have as much of an issue with the Austin/HBK/Foley bit because I don't think the LON guys are or ever will be on the same level as Austin/HBK/Foley.

To me, Rock (and I'm not sure if it's his decision or Vince's necessarily) never really works long term with young guys to put them over anymore. If Rock or Vince think that just being in a segment with him is enough to get that person over, they're mistaken. If he comes back and does what he did tonight with someone like Bray, and it leads to something more substantial, like Bray going over Rock in a match, that'd be a different story, obviously.
Absolutely! Bray wouldn't even need to win the match! The program itself will give him exposure and hopefully elevate him.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:43 AM   #1759
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If the intent was to get Ambrose over, I don't mind Lesnar winning that match, but it never really feel like Ambrose was a true threat to Lesnar, ala Taker, Reigns, Cena, HHH, etc. I left the match kinda feeling like there was no point to it. The match wasn't good enough to just have it as an entertaining WM one-off, nor was it good enough to really put Ambrose over as a legit bad ass threat.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:48 AM   #1760
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On the Wyatts and Rock Cena confrontation, I'm kind of with wwf fan on this.

I see where Heyman is coming from, and agree that getting one upped by a major star in a confrontation can actually help a great deal. That said, there is a difference between getting one upped and being made to look like a bunch of harmless buffoons, and that's exactly what happened to the wyatts tonight. They didn't even get a shot in on the rock before cena came down and they cleared house.

Everyone keeps saying "don't worry this will actually help the wyatts in the long run" years now, the defenders of the wyatts booking have been saying thiis. Literally years. My question now is "when?". Every time this happens, the wyatts get less and less intimidating. Now we're at the point where they aren't intimidating at all. They're a punchline. There are wyatt booking flowcharts out there. It's just sad, because there is no reason why Bray Wyatt shouldn't be the strongest heel in the company right now. More so than even Brock Lesnar.
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