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Old 05-10-2004, 08:48 PM   #1721
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Originally Posted by Rob
Dennis Bergkamp only scored 3 goals in his last 2 years in Italy. Does it mean the Premiership is shit?
Well that would explain why RvN scores as many as he does
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:53 PM   #1722
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Well that would explain why RvN scores as many as he does
Very good.

Come to think of it, Henry never set Italy on fire either.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:54 PM   #1723
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Originally Posted by Rob
Very good.

Come to think of it, Henry never set Italy on fire either.
But didn't he play right wing alot of the time, and it was Wenger that transformed him into an attacker? I'm sure it was Juve that played him right wing.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:59 PM   #1724
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Originally Posted by Dazz
But didn't he play right wing alot of the time, and it was Wenger that transformed him into an attacker? I'm sure it was Juve that played him right wing.
It's all excuses with you isn't it?
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Old 05-10-2004, 10:50 PM   #1725
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Left wing btw for Henry
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Old 05-10-2004, 10:54 PM   #1726
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Yeah I wasn't sure, , he is right footed so I assumed it was right wing.
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Old 05-10-2004, 10:59 PM   #1727
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Originally Posted by Rob
Dennis Bergkamp only scored 3 goals in his last 2 years in Italy. Does it mean the Premiership is shit?

Again, I'm not defending the quality of the Scottish league so why harp on about it?
Bergkamp's not an out and out striker though like Sutton so its not a fair comparison.

He's had a great season this season most would say and I bet he hasn't got more than 10 goals probably way less.
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:41 AM   #1728
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Originally Posted by Dazz
Ha, Flo used to be the man, he scored some really important goals for Chelsea. But couldn't cut the mustard in Sctoland. And then was whack when he went to Sunderland. If you ask me, it sums up how rubbish the Scottish league is when Chris Sutton scores three goals for Chelsea in a season, one of which being against Hull, and another in the qualifying for the Champions League, he was a real joke, and was rubbish in his last couple of seasons in Blackburn. Look at how well he got on in Scotland, what a joke.
He was actually brilliant for Blackburn, which is why Chelsea spent £8 million on him. He had a couple of injury hit seasons after Shearer left, but Sutton was great there, when fit.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:19 AM   #1729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
I love the comment about "lining their pockets" though. Just shows how little every who is saying it knows. Rangers, unlike the Real's of the world, are trying to manage that debt now and ain't paying out big wages any more.
Consider this then.

Prso has gone on a free transfer, on a 3 year contract. He is 29, and has left a club in the Champions League final, furthermore, with Morientes going back to Real Madrid, he is guaranteed First team football, in a side which is gradually being rebuilt. The guy will be on at least £40,000 a week, at least.

You've gotta look at the reasons why anyone would sign for a club like Rangers. Sure they have history, but why would you sign for a club in a city which isn't exactly the most pleasant in the word, leaving the French Riviera. Why would you go and play football in a league where you have 5 big games a year? Prso isn't the same as Boumsong, he's coming to the last 5 years of his career, and a 3 year contract will be a nice little pay day. Boumsong was probably offered big bucks to go and play for a couple of years so Rangers could make money on him. Furthermore, Rangers are highly unlikely to be playing in the Champions League beyond the 1st round, and then, if they manage to get into the Uefa Cup, the chances are they will get knocked out. In a poor league, Rangers are miles behind the only other team who are capable of winning the title, why would Prso swap a more competitive league, because any number of sides could win the French league, for Scotland? It can only be for money.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:20 AM   #1730
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Also, the Thai PM has bought a stake in Liverpool with PUBLIC FUNDS

I am seriously pissed off that Parry would consider anything so incredibly dodgy
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:36 AM   #1731
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I remember when we played in front of nearly 50 000 each week, nobody callled us a big club
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:36 AM   #1732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Sid
Also, the Thai PM has bought a stake in Liverpool with PUBLIC FUNDS

I am seriously pissed off that Parry would consider anything so incredibly dodgy
Apart from that, the guy is also an atrocious cunt. He isn't averse to a bit of government-sponsored murder.
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Old 05-11-2004, 12:18 PM   #1733
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Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
He was actually brilliant for Blackburn, which is why Chelsea spent £8 million on him. He had a couple of injury hit seasons after Shearer left, but Sutton was great there, when fit.
He was good when they won the championship, he turned rubbish, and couldn't cut it in his last few seasons at Blackburn.

And it was £10Million.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:33 PM   #1734
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Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
They won the Fairs Cup a long time ago, that's about it.

Rangers blew it, really. They had the potential in the early 90s to go places, they spent big money on some bad players (£12 million on Tore Andre Flo, for example), and never lived up to their potential in the Champions League, despite qualifying for it for years on end.
In fairness, they weren't far off winning the bloody thing in 93 and very nearly ended up in the final itself when there was talk about them replaying it after Marseilles got stripped of the title.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:38 PM   #1735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazz
He was good when they won the championship, he turned rubbish, and couldn't cut it in his last few seasons at Blackburn.

And it was £10Million.
Dazz, don't be stupid. The only reason Chelsea spent so much money on him was because of his form at Blackburn. Seriously, use your head. I realise you were probably only about 7 when Sutton was playing for Blackburn, but he was top class, aside from a couple of season where he struggled with injury, and where Blackburn, as a team, struggled. Why would Chelsea even think of signing him if he'd gotten so bad, as you are saying?

Besides, Chris Sutton offers alot more to a football team than just goals. He's an excellent player.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:41 PM   #1736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
In fairness, they weren't far off winning the bloody thing in 93 and very nearly ended up in the final itself when there was talk about them replaying it after Marseilles got stripped of the title.
Yeah, but the Champions League was just two groups of 6 back then. Different prospect to now. That was an odd season, too. But Rangers did have a good side who could have been challenging more often. That's why I say they blew it. They spent the big money and ****ed up more often than not.
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:05 PM   #1737
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Two groups of four actually, and to be fair to Rangers, they did still have to make it through all the earlier rounds to make it to the final eight, from where they would have a claim of being one of the top four in Europe when all was said and done, but yes, I'm not going to disagree with Rangers underachievement in Europe over the years by and large. It's a bit like that old three pin plug joke with them...
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:16 PM   #1738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
Two groups of four actually, and to be fair to Rangers, they did still have to make it through all the earlier rounds to make it to the final eight, from where they would have a claim of being one of the top four in Europe when all was said and done, but yes, I'm not going to disagree with Rangers underachievement in Europe over the years by and large. It's a bit like that old three pin plug joke with them...
The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Leeds happened to be abysmal that season, too, nearly getting relegated from the Premier League, never mind being absolutely shite against Rangers in the Champions League. So basically you had alot of poor teams, along with Barcelona and AC Milan, and Barcelona are the biggest underachievers of all time in terms of Europe.

I remembered the groups being bigger for some reason. Maybe it just seemed like alot of matches to be on tv when I was 11 and didn't have Sky. I remember Rangers being one minute away from
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:53 PM   #1739
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Speaking of Scotland,Rangers and Celtic sent scouts to the Leicester/Pompey game to check on Marcus Bent.

Also,West Brom have inquired about Dickov.

Got that from ITV teletext division 1 news.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:02 PM   #1740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Leeds happened to be abysmal that season, too, nearly getting relegated from the Premier League, never mind being absolutely shite against Rangers in the Champions League. So basically you had alot of poor teams, along with Barcelona and AC Milan, and Barcelona are the biggest underachievers of all time in terms of Europe.

I remembered the groups being bigger for some reason. Maybe it just seemed like alot of matches to be on tv when I was 11 and didn't have Sky. I remember Rangers being one minute away from
Come on now. That's like saying the previous European Cup's don't mean what they do now because it was all knock out stages. You can't use teams underachiving as an excuse either. AC Milan actually won the thing (being that Marseille were stripped of it and it was total politics that Rangers never got to the final).
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:10 PM   #1741
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Marcio Amoroso is in Scotland for talks with Celtic. Obviously didn't get what he was looking for in England.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:18 PM   #1742
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The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Certainly the tournament was weaker, but that's because only the best of the best were allowed in it. Now, whilst I personally prefered it that way, being an old school sort of guy, none of this "come 4th in the league but you're the best in Europe" rubbish, I totally understand why they modified it into the modern day Champions League - more big teams playing more matches equals more money spinning ties and bigger TV ratings, exactly the sort of thing you'd expect UEFA to want, so I'm not arguing that at all. Now, if only I can get them to scrap that stupid "You got knocked out of the Champions League? Shame. Fancy a go at the UEFA Cup?" nonsense.

Still, to suggest the tournament was just a load of shit back then is a bit of an exaggeration. That year, the competition included Marseille, Milan, PSV, Porto, Gothenburg, Barcelona and Stuttgart, amongst others, along with Leeds and Rangers, and that era would usually see around a dozen very good teams (champions of England, Scotland, Holland, France, Portgual, Spain, Holland and Italy along with any who made it out of Dynamo Kiev, Gothenburg, Red Star, Steaua, Spartak, Anderlecht and Panathinikos, back when some of those were better than they are now).

Leeds happened to be abysmal that season, too, nearly getting relegated from the Premier League,

They were never in any danger, though going from champions to not winning a single away game all season is pretty appauling.

never mind being absolutely shite against Rangers in the Champions League.

Ahh, now that I will agree with you on - it was billed as the big Battle of Britain clash, and Rangers ended up walking in, winning both legs 2-1 if I remember correctly.

So basically you had alot of poor teams, along with Barcelona and AC Milan, and Barcelona are the biggest underachievers of all time in terms of Europe.

I just covered how that was a bit far fetched. Besides, Barcelona are certainly huge underachievers in Europe (despite being one of only four clubs to win all three major European trophies) but they were the reigining European champions that year, so you can hardly downplay their involvement.

I remembered the groups being bigger for some reason. Maybe it just seemed like alot of matches to be on tv when I was 11 and didn't have Sky. I remember Rangers being one minute away from

You may have been one minute away from completing the sentence.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:19 PM   #1743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
Come on now. That's like saying the previous European Cup's don't mean what they do now because it was all knock out stages. You can't use teams underachiving as an excuse either. AC Milan actually won the thing (being that Marseille were stripped of it and it was total politics that Rangers never got to the final).
No, I think bringing the group format in made it easier to win the competition for big clubs, with the fewer teams. When it was a 100% knock-out tournament, it was more difficult. A well-organised, lesser team could beat a bigger one over a knock-out tie, but over 6 games in a group I think the best teams usually show their class.

I mean, look at the group Rangers contest. It had Club Bruges and CSKA Moscow in it. Decent teams, but not the cream of Europe. Rangers were not,as good as they were, and never have been, one of the four best teams in European football.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:21 PM   #1744
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AC Milan actually won the thing
Whilst they were generally accepted as champions (they got to play in the World Club Cup anyway), they were never officially given the title after Marseille were stripped of it - in all reality, there was never a European champion that year due to all the controversy that went on afterwards.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:26 PM   #1745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
The earlier rounds were the equivalent of preliminary rounds now i.e. full of shit. Bear in mind that the idea of bringing in 2nd, 2rd and 4th placed teams from top European countries is a recent one, so the tournament was alot weaker back then, overall, with fewer teams.

Certainly the tournament was weaker, but that's because only the best of the best were allowed in it. Now, whilst I personally prefered it that way, being an old school sort of guy, none of this "come 4th in the league but you're the best in Europe" rubbish, I totally understand why they modified it into the modern day Champions League - more big teams playing more matches equals more money spinning ties and bigger TV ratings, exactly the sort of thing you'd expect UEFA to want, so I'm not arguing that at all. Now, if only I can get them to scrap that stupid "You got knocked out of the Champions League? Shame. Fancy a go at the UEFA Cup?" nonsense.

Still, to suggest the tournament was just a load of shit back then is a bit of an exaggeration. That year, the competition included Marseille, Milan, PSV, Porto, Gothenburg, Barcelona and Stuttgart, amongst others, along with Leeds and Rangers, and that era would usually see around a dozen very good teams (champions of England, Scotland, Holland, France, Portgual, Spain, Holland and Italy along with any who made it out of Dynamo Kiev, Gothenburg, Red Star, Steaua, Spartak, Anderlecht and Panathinikos, back when some of those were better than they are now).
Oh yeah, I would prefer it if the competition was restricted to the champions only, myself. The UEFA Cup meant alot more, back then too, which was good. The Cup Winners Cup was always kind of a novelty, though.

The early rounds were, however, full of shit. Glentoran played in it back then. I doubt they could even afford the trip to Milan now if the competition was the same format.

All the teams you mentioned were decent to good, but this is my point. Rangers were only decent to good themselves, so it's all relative. You can't make the point that Rangers were a minute away from getting to a Champions League final and expect that statement to hold the same weight it does now.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:27 PM   #1746
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Originally Posted by Rob
Marcio Amoroso is in Scotland for talks with Celtic. Obviously didn't get what he was looking for in England.
He would be a good signing. Lost his way a bit at Dortmund, but he was brilliant in Italy.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:42 PM   #1747
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Oh yeah, I would prefer it if the competition was restricted to the champions only, myself. The UEFA Cup meant alot more, back then too, which was good. The Cup Winners Cup was always kind of a novelty, though.

The early rounds were, however, full of shit. Glentoran played in it back then. I doubt they could even afford the trip to Milan now if the competition was the same format.

All the teams you mentioned were decent to good, but this is my point. Rangers were only decent to good themselves, so it's all relative. You can't make the point that Rangers were a minute away from getting to a Champions League final and expect that statement to hold the same weight it does now.
True, it's certainly a LOT harder to win now - I think where you said it's easier for a big team to win it now, what you were trying to say is that it's more likely to be won (and dominated by) the big teams, it's certainly harder to win it for ANYONE now. And I don't think Rangers were ever a minute away from making it since Marseille held the advantage going into the final round of games in their group anyway (at which point Marseille won and Rangers only drew).

As for the early rounds, it depended really. I don't think there was any seeding, so it all depended who was drawn against who. You did get some weak ties in there (yeah, Glentoran for example) but by comparison, it's the same with the F.A. Cup. At the end of the day, it holds true with any knockout tournament that the team who is technically the best can be beat by an underdog on a lucky day, but to an extent, that's half the fun. I don't want to see Real Madrid winning the Champions League every other year, I want to see Steaua Bucharest outplaying Barcelona in the final and then making a mockery of them in the ensuing penalty shoot out.

Speaking of the F.A. Cup and the Cup Winners Cup, am I the only one that wants to see the CWC return? A novelty it may have been, but it always gave some teams a shot at winning a European trophy that never would have otherwise whilst still having to play a couple of big teams along the way to prove their worth. The likes of West Ham, Slovan Bratislava, Dynamo Tblisi, Magdeburg, Mechelen and, good lord, Glasgow Rangers - all respectable enough teams who would have never won the European Cup or, probably, the UEFA Cup. Millwall might actually hit the big time...
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:49 PM   #1748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91
True, it's certainly a LOT harder to win now - I think where you said it's easier for a big team to win it now, what you were trying to say is that it's more likely to be won (and dominated by) the big teams, it's certainly harder to win it for ANYONE now. And I don't think Rangers were ever a minute away from making it since Marseille held the advantage going into the final round of games in their group anyway (at which point Marseille won and Rangers only drew).

As for the early rounds, it depended really. I don't think there was any seeding, so it all depended who was drawn against who. You did get some weak ties in there (yeah, Glentoran for example) but by comparison, it's the same with the F.A. Cup. At the end of the day, it holds true with any knockout tournament that the team who is technically the best can be beat by an underdog on a lucky day, but to an extent, that's half the fun. I don't want to see Real Madrid winning the Champions League every other year, I want to see Steaua Bucharest outplaying Barcelona in the final and then making a mockery of them in the ensuing penalty shoot out.

Speaking of the F.A. Cup and the Cup Winners Cup, am I the only one that wants to see the CWC return? A novelty it may have been, but it always gave some teams a shot at winning a European trophy that never would have otherwise whilst still having to play a couple of big teams along the way to prove their worth. The likes of West Ham, Slovan Bratislava, Dynamo Tblisi, Magdeburg, Mechelen and, good lord, Glasgow Rangers - all respectable enough teams who would have never won the European Cup or, probably, the UEFA Cup. Millwall might actually hit the big time...
I meant the early group format favoured the big sides. The format they brought in this year is perfect, in my opinion, for the expanded comeptition. More knock-out rounds is the right way to go.

I am glad we've got two novel sides in the Champions League final for variation's sake, though I wish Porto would ditch the cheating tactics for one game so the final isn't terrible. Can't be argued that it is probably the most exciting competition around at the moment, though, what with all the domestic leagues being wrapped up before the final couple of weekends, pretty much.

I liked the old European ties, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. In those days I believe the UEFA cup wasn't far behind the Champions League in prestige. The Cup Winners Cup was definitely the poor, vagrant cousin of those competitions, but it was worth having.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:01 PM   #1749
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Yeah, I was thrilled they brought back in more knockout ties - come to think of it, there weren't many small teams in there, were there? Lokomotiv Moscow were one, I guess you could call them the token surprise team.

I don't know if the UEFA Cup necessarily had more prestige, but it was certainly a LOT harder to win, since that was the tournament with all the big nations having up to four entrants, along with an extra round. Now there was a competition that only the big boys won.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:57 PM   #1750
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I have been to about 12 countries around the world including 4 continents and I've seen more people wearing Rangers and Celtic shirts than any French team.
I'd be curious to see how many of those people were Scottish ex-pats as oppoosed to fans native to those countries.
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Old 05-11-2004, 05:04 PM   #1751
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Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
Apart from that, the guy is also an atrocious cunt. He isn't averse to a bit of government-sponsored murder.
Yeah I did a bit of background research this arvo about the guy, not the most pleasant of people.

And yes, that is an understatement
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Old 05-11-2004, 05:41 PM   #1752
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Originally Posted by Mr. Monday Morning
I'd be curious to see how many of those people were Scottish ex-pats as oppoosed to fans native to those countries.
Well in Japan and Sweden, they were definately natives. The rest are debatable or I can't remember.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:17 PM   #1753
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Rob is deluding himself in here if he thinks Dado is joining Rangers for anything other than money. The guy obviously lacks ambition as he apparently rejected Milan for Rangers, according to the ever so reputable Daily Record.

Boumsong has also stated his desire to leave Rangers after 2 years. Thats the plan, join on a free, get used to British football and move to a Premiership club.

All this 'great' talk about Murray Park and their training facilities being the best for the youngsters coming through yet this season Celtic won all 3 Championships. The SPL, Under 21's and U19's. Stick your Murray Park up your ass.

Rangers are in £65m debt and even Murray has said that they only get away with it because of his role at Rangers and the finances he pumps in. The bank would be looking very unfavourably at them otherwise.

Celtic are the best team in Scotland. Rangers need a lot more than Prso, Rae and Boumsong. As for Marvin Andrews. Is that supposed to put fear in Celtic fans?

Dado and Boumsong are there for the pay packets. They're hardly there to win trophies now are they, considering Celtic are about 5 years ahead of Rangers.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:25 PM   #1754
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So Rangers bring in far more money than Monaco do year after year and play in front of 50,000 people every week and they aren't bigger than Monaco? Next thing you'll be telling me is Porto are bigger than Man United because they knocked us out of Europe.

Nobody said Monaco aren't a better team. Read the words carefully.
Its easy to bring in 50,000 fans when your one of the only two teams playing a decent game of football in your leauge though.
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Old 05-12-2004, 11:58 AM   #1755
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Liverpool have been linked with Dawson (about time), Barton (potential, but it could be the potential to be the new Lee Bowyer) and Shaun Wright Phillips (would be amazing)

Gronkjear has supposedly agreed terms with Birmingham
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Old 05-12-2004, 12:00 PM   #1756
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Oh, and Tottenham have released Poyet, Anderton and Ziege

Personally, I cannot believe Ziege has left them
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Old 05-12-2004, 12:12 PM   #1757
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Oh, and Tottenham have released Poyet, Anderton and Ziege

Personally, I cannot believe Ziege has left them
Yet they gave Jamie Redknapp a years extension!?

O Spurs, when will you learn................
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Old 05-12-2004, 01:13 PM   #1758
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Damn, who the hell is going to be stupid enough to pick up Sicknote?

*touches wood*
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:04 PM   #1759
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Damn it,now Birmingham are after Dickov aswell.So are West Brom.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:52 PM   #1760
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2-2 between Southampton and Newcastle at half time.

Good game but mainly because of Newcastle's poor defence.
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