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Old 07-25-2013, 06:48 PM   #1761
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I don't know guys. Flacco over Brees and Ryan doesn't seem that ridiclious.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:52 PM   #1762
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Yes, it does. If you take Brees or Ryan off their teams - they go to shit. You could plug any average QB into the Ravens last year and they probably still win the Super Bowl. Just because you win a Super Bowl doesn't make you a QB God.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:54 PM   #1763
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How good were The Saints with Drew Brees this year?
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:59 PM   #1764
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The offense wasn't the problem. That is like using Dan Marino's lack of championships to say he sucks. It is a very complex team sport, so you can't just use the teams holistic success to accurately measure an individual's ability or talent level.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:00 PM   #1765
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The Ravens defense this year was good, but it wasn't great.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:08 PM   #1766
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Uhhh if you think the 2012 New Orleans Saints' problem was Drew Brees then I don't know what to tell ya bud.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:09 PM   #1767
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They got good when it mattered in the playoffs, and kept the offense in the games by causing turnovers. The Ravens were +8 in turnovers.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:10 PM   #1768
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The Broncos game and the 2nd half of the Super Bowl were exceptions, but they bowed their necks when it mattered in OT and the final minutes.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:16 PM   #1769
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I'm not saying Flacco sucks, but FFS he isn't a Top 5 QB or a Hall of Fame QB. He is a solid starting QB who was surrounded by a legitimate experienced defense and a legit force of a running game. Let's not forget about Boldin and Torrey Smith at WR. Pitta and Rice got a lot of catches too. This year will be the test for Joe Flacco because he lost his #1 WR and the defense is being rebuilt. They won't get extra possessions and he will have to complete more passes. Great QBs don't complete less than 60% of their throws.

Drew Brees IS the New Orleans Saints. Joe Flacco wasn't the identity of the Ravens. He might be now, and that is where the test will be.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:30 PM   #1770
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Flacco is just a slightly less ugly (or uglier, I can't decide) Eli Manning. Compare Eli's 2011 playoff run with Flacco's 2012. Eli's was arguably better, and I don't see anybody sucking him off this year. Oh what, he had a bad 2012? So what happens when Flacco inevitably falls flat on his face this season? Will he still be a better QB than Brees? Get real
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:00 PM   #1771
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If you give me the choice for my starting QB for 2013 and I have to chose between Ryan, Brees, and Flaaco. I'm going Matt Ryan, but I'm thinking hard about him over Flacco.

Drew Brees is on the downward end of his career, and he likes throwing to the other team.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:13 PM   #1772
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In no order, QBs I'd take in 2013 over Flacco: Brees, Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning, Stafford, Wilson, Luck, RGIII, Newton, Romo, Roethlisberger, and Ryan. I could be talked into Cutler or Eli, probably Kaepernick too if I could punch that stupid smug look off his face as part of the deal. I'd say Flacco is pretty squarely average.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:28 PM   #1773
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Really, McLegend? Really?


Joe Flacco: 317/531 (59.7% Completion), 3817yds (7.19 avg), 22 TD/10 INT, Longest Pass: 61yds

Drew Brees: 422/670 (63% Completion), 5177yds (7.73avg), 43 TD/19 INT, Longest Pass: 80yds

Matt Ryan: 422/655 (68.6% Completion), 4719yds (7.67avg), 32TD/14INT, Longest Pass: 80yds

You will throw more interceptions when you throw the ball more, have the shittiest defense in the NFL, and have the shitbird circus they had going on.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:30 PM   #1774
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I would strongly disagree with Stafford. He's not that good.

Also Cutler hasn't done anything in his career. He just has a good arm. That's the only thing he has.

I don't know what I'm getting with Romo. He's to up and down. Cam Newton's horrible 2nd season scares me.

I'm actually not going to disagree with the rookies. All promising futures.

I would take Rothlisbeger and Eli over Flacco to.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:31 PM   #1775
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A great QB does not complete less than 60% of his passes. FFS, 60% is considered the standard for high school QBs.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:33 PM   #1776
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Really, McLegend? Really?


Joe Flacco: 317/531 (59.7% Completion), 3817yds (7.19 avg), 22 TD/10 INT, Longest Pass: 61yds

Drew Brees: 422/670 (63% Completion), 5177yds (7.73avg), 43 TD/19 INT, Longest Pass: 80yds

Matt Ryan: 422/655 (68.6% Completion), 4719yds (7.67avg), 32TD/14INT, Longest Pass: 80yds

You will throw more interceptions when you throw the ball more, have the shittiest defense in the NFL, and have the shitbird circus they had going on.
Yeah but what I'm saying if Flacco played in that system he would put up good numbers to.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:34 PM   #1777
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Flacco is good but no way he's Top 5 good yet like Jaws has for his list.

Flacco is getting the same QB hype Eli got after his 1st win being proclaimed as a great QB when it took Eli a few more years to really show it off.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:35 PM   #1778
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A great QB does not complete less than 60% of his passes. FFS, 60% is considered the standard for high school QBs.
I don't think Drew Brees is great anymore. We've seen the best of him.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:35 PM   #1779
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I would strongly disagree with Stafford. He's not that good.

Also Cutler hasn't done anything in his career. He just has a good arm. That's the only thing he has.

I don't know what I'm getting with Romo. He's to up and down. Cam Newton's horrible 2nd season scares me.

I'm actually not going to disagree with the rookies. All promising futures.

I would take Rothlisbeger and Eli over Flacco to.
Stafford and Cutler were on shit teams running for their lives. They both would excel with the tools Flacco has.

Romo is shit. Cam Newton will be just like Vince Young, only he'll have to give back his Heisman and National Championship ring eventually.

Big Ben and Eli are great QBs, but Ben should be in jail and Eli isn't better than Peyton.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:36 PM   #1780
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I always thought Eli Manning was good. Even prior to his Super Bowls.

He always scared the hell out of me.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:37 PM   #1781
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I don't think Drew Brees is great anymore. We've seen the best of him.
Drew Brees: 422/670 (63% Completion), 5177yds (7.73avg), 43 TD/19 INT, Longest Pass: 80yds

If that is downhill and not great, then Flacco is a never was.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:39 PM   #1782
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Yeah but what I'm saying if Flacco played in that system he would put up good numbers to.
No he wouldn't. He can't even complete 60% of his passes.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:42 PM   #1783
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Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
In no order, QBs I'd take in 2013 over Flacco: Brees, Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning, Stafford, Wilson, Luck, RGIII, Newton, Romo, Roethlisberger, and Ryan. I could be talked into Cutler or Eli, probably Kaepernick too if I could punch that stupid smug look off his face as part of the deal. I'd say Flacco is pretty squarely average.
I'd put Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton Manning, Ryan, Eli, and Roethlisberger ahead of Flacco right now.

The others are either debatable (Romo, Cutler), wait another season (Luck, Kap, Wilson, RG III) or behind him (Newton, Stafford).
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:45 PM   #1784
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No he wouldn't. He can't even complete 60% of his passes.
If he played in that system with those receivers he would complete at least 60% of his passes.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:49 PM   #1785
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I would strongly disagree with Stafford. He's not that good.

Also Cutler hasn't done anything in his career. He just has a good arm. That's the only thing he has.

I don't know what I'm getting with Romo. He's to up and down. Cam Newton's horrible 2nd season scares me.

I'm actually not going to disagree with the rookies. All promising futures.

I would take Rothlisbeger and Eli over Flacco to.

I'm still on the fence with Stafford. His upside interests me much more than Flacco's. Granted, he does own the most hollow 5,000 yard season in NFL history, but he's still only 25 and he has the best WR in the game to work with. Big things ahead.

Cutler is pretty meh. You basically know what you're getting with him. Unfortunately, since coming to Chicago he's had maybe 2 good offensive linemen his entire tenure. Honestly I think Cutler's much better when staying in the pocket, and with no protection he can't really do that at all. If Chicago had what could even be considered a below-average O-line Cutler would look a lot better than he has. I still think I'd take Flacco over him though.

Romo gets shit on way more than he should. For all the retards claiming he isn't clutch and a choker, they conveniently brush aside the fact that he lead the NFL in fourth-quarter comebacks last season (5).

Cam Newton plays on a shit team. He was the Panthers' leading rusher last year. Not bad for a "horrible" year eh? Quick, name me a WR on the Panthers not named 33 year old Steve Smith. Oh. Yeah. Cam still put up decent stats with a god-awful poorly-run team (their GM is one of the worst since Millen. Fun read: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...competent-best). Cam is one of those QBs that I don't know what I feel about. Part of being a great QB is having the physical tools, as well as the mental tools. Cam is physically beastlike but mentally I don't know if he has what it takes to be great. I could be talked into Flacco over him, but Cam's upside is pretty tempting.

The rookies all looked amazing last year. In Flacco's defense, he's been above-average/good for 4 seasons now, so he's got a better track record. Again, a case of incredible upside trumps consistency here for me.
Last edited by road doggy dogg; 07-25-2013 at 08:52 PM. Reason: downloading torrents = slow ass internet... added quoted post for clarity
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:54 PM   #1786
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No he wouldn't. He can't even complete 60% of his passes.
I'm as anti-Flacco as anybody, but you put him in Sean Payton's offense and he easily completes 60% of his passes. C'mon. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:00 PM   #1787
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Drew Brees: 422/670 (63% Completion), 5177yds (7.73avg), 43 TD/19 INT, Longest Pass: 80yds

If that is downhill and not great, then Flacco is a never was.
That's not that impressive. I mean by the numbers it is impressive. Everyone puts up insane numbers now though. Then of course he had a horrible defense so he has to chuck it up all the time, and so he is going to have big numbers.

I think he is a fantasy QB who will put up good numbers even though I don't think he's not that good anymore.

He's just a stats guy.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:10 PM   #1788
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Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
I'm still on the fence with Stafford. His upside interests me much more than Flacco's. Granted, he does own the most hollow 5,000 yard season in NFL history, but he's still only 25 and he has the best WR in the game to work with. Big things ahead.

Cutler is pretty meh. You basically know what you're getting with him. Unfortunately, since coming to Chicago he's had maybe 2 good offensive linemen his entire tenure. Honestly I think Cutler's much better when staying in the pocket, and with no protection he can't really do that at all. If Chicago had what could even be considered a below-average O-line Cutler would look a lot better than he has. I still think I'd take Flacco over him though.

Romo gets shit on way more than he should. For all the retards claiming he isn't clutch and a choker, they conveniently brush aside the fact that he lead the NFL in fourth-quarter comebacks last season (5).

Cam Newton plays on a shit team. He was the Panthers' leading rusher last year. Not bad for a "horrible" year eh? Quick, name me a WR on the Panthers not named 33 year old Steve Smith. Oh. Yeah. Cam still put up decent stats with a god-awful poorly-run team (their GM is one of the worst since Millen. Fun read: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...competent-best). Cam is one of those QBs that I don't know what I feel about. Part of being a great QB is having the physical tools, as well as the mental tools. Cam is physically beastlike but mentally I don't know if he has what it takes to be great. I could be talked into Flacco over him, but Cam's upside is pretty tempting.

The rookies all looked amazing last year. In Flacco's defense, he's been above-average/good for 4 seasons now, so he's got a better track record. Again, a case of incredible upside trumps consistency here for me.
Cutler's online have been horrible, and he has been in a bad offensive system to. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I feel like a good enough QB, (and maybe they have to be great so it might be unfair to Cutler this next statement) can make a bad offensive line good.

Manning and Brady never have bad lines, but I feel like if you put Cutler on their teams Cutler still gets sacked more than they do.

I hope Cutler does well, because I like his dickhead attitude, but I feel like at some point you are what you are. I know that's kind of ESPN statement, but I feel like there is some truth to it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:19 PM   #1789
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Would much rather have Eli than Flacco. Eli obviously has some games where he just looks flat out terrible, but when he's on he's capable of having a monster game. I'll never forget Week 3 against Carolina last year. Yeah the Panthers are bad, but Nicks didn't play and Cruz got double teamed all game. Eli just shrugged it off and made Ramses Barden of all people look like a million bucks. Felt like the game was over one drive in when it was just clear the good Eli had arrived.

And there are only a few guys I'd rather have than Eli in a close game. If the Giants are down by a score or two late I can never totally feel like it's over.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:21 PM   #1790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLegend View Post
If he played in that system with those receivers he would complete at least 60% of his passes.
Don't act like the Ravens had a bad WR corp last year. I don't think Flacco would magically complete more balls just because Sean Payton was his coach. He had Payton Manning's OC and didn't put up those kind of numbers did he? If Brees and Flacco swapped places, Brees would be far more successful at his job.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:34 PM   #1791
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Is Flacco elite?
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:34 PM   #1792
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Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
Would much rather have Eli than Flacco. Eli obviously has some games where he just looks flat out terrible, but when he's on he's capable of having a monster game. I'll never forget Week 3 against Carolina last year. Yeah the Panthers are bad, but Nicks didn't play and Cruz got double teamed all game. Eli just shrugged it off and made Ramses Barden of all people look like a million bucks. Felt like the game was over one drive in when it was just clear the good Eli had arrived.

And there are only a few guys I'd rather have than Eli in a close game. If the Giants are down by a score or two late I can never totally feel like it's over.
That's what's so frustrating about watching Eli play sometimes. He shows flashes of brilliance where he makes throws that no other QB can make, but then he also has games where he'll go like 10-25 for <200 yards and look generally miserable. He's definitely gotten way better in recent years but one of my first impressions of him his first few seasons was how erratic and inconsistent he was.

I do think Eli has one of the highest upsides for brief moments, but I don't think he's consistently AT that level for me to really consider it his norm. If that makes sense? Whereas (in my eyes), someone like Rodgers has a very high upside, but he'll approach it say 75% of the time compared to maybe 40% for Eli (arbitrary numbers). I don't know.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:34 PM   #1793
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He wasn't calling plays for Payton Manning. Jim Caldwell did a good job for the Ravens though.

Jim Caldwell replaced Cam Cameron during the season, and might it have been it past the midpoint of the season. I don't know though. So there had to be some issues with the system.


Yes Flacco receivers were good this year. Now Anquin Bolden is a great Receiver, but he's never opened. Flacco constantly has to fit the ball into tight places just to get him. Then of course Boldin catches it because he is really good.

Also no ones throws a better deep ball then Flacco. I love it when he throws a bomb.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:37 PM   #1794
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Is Flacco elite?
Fantastic question...

Lets establish who is elite

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers

Would we add anyone to that list?
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:43 PM   #1795
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Quote:
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Don't act like the Ravens had a bad WR corp last year. I don't think Flacco would magically complete more balls just because Sean Payton was his coach. He had Payton Manning's OC and didn't put up those kind of numbers did he? If Brees and Flacco swapped places, Brees would be far more successful at his job.
To be fair, Flacco's play improved dramatically when Caldwell was brought in. I think he's shown irrefutable proof that his coach/OC/system can really affect his performance. Payton is, for my money, the best offensive mind in the league right now. You don't think he would have a positive impact on his quarterback? I don't buy it.


That being said, if we're taking all QBs at face value right now, part of the reason I rate Brees so highly is because of his situation he is in. Yeah, he's in his mid-30s and we've most likely seen the best season he'll put up (which, btw, is probably the best of all time), but 80% of Brees the past 7 years is still better than probably 28 QBs in the league. His skill-set is a lot like (Peyton) Manning's, where even with diminished arm strength he's still got an incredible ability to find holes in the defense and beat you on short/intermediate passes.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:23 AM   #1796
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Sean Payton didn't call plays for Drew Brees in 2012 and he still threw a shit-ton of TD passes.

He has shown for an extended period of time that he can be the heartbeat and catalyst for the Saints and lead them to lots of wins. Just because he is 34 doesn't mean you take him out behind the barn the first chance you get. 34 isn't as old as it used to be in the NFL.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:09 AM   #1797
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LOL @ legend

Think I heard that matt ryan signed a $100 mill 5 year extention with the dirty birds, is this true??
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:25 PM   #1798
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For some reason I'm imagining bowls of cocaine and viagra in Irsay's suite following that halftime display.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:26 PM   #1799
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LOL @ legend

Think I heard that matt ryan signed a $100 mill 5 year extention with the dirty birds, is this true??
Mort reported that they're finalizing it. I've been looking for some kind of image or banner to send you, but I haven't found the right one yet, so I'm just going to say "Suck it Kris P" and leave it at that for now.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:05 PM   #1800
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I've done pretty well for myself writing off the Falcons every single year. They've never proven me wrong. I think I'll do the same this year.
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