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Old 12-31-2017, 09:05 PM   #1
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There's very little detail given about the Empire's rise in the original film from what I recall. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't remember too much more than a general summary as to why they were there. The Emperor isn't seen until the second, and isn't a major player till the 3rd.

Even then, he's not the main villain. Vader is. Whether people like it or not, the Emperor was a tool to develop Vader as a character and give him a moment of redemption.

That's all Snoke is. A tool to further the plot and give the real main characters, Ren, who's clearly the big bad, and Rey something to do. Not to mention, trilogy isn't over yet. We don't know what they plan on doing in the next film. Snoke could very well be explained, even if briefly, in the next one.

Hinting at Ren's fall to the dark side has been a running storyline that's now played out but has not been completed in the last 2 films. But he's clearly the big deal here. Much like Vader was. Not the guy sitting in the chair barking orders at them.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:06 PM   #2
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You're right. Star Wars has always been poorly written. Should of expected it would be shit.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:09 PM   #3
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You're right. Star Wars has always been poorly written. Should of expected it would be shit.
Thats fair. Like most childrens films the writing is suspect
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:07 PM   #4
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Little dramatic there.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:11 PM   #5
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To each his own. Killing Snoke reshuffled the deck for episode 9. Killing him was the next step for Ren. He killed Snoke. He killed Han. He is unshackled.

If you want to complain about wasted characters I’ll give you Phasma.

Rey’s parents being nobodies is an answer. It may not be the answer you thought but it’s an acceptable answer that works with Rey’s character and the setup of this film.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:12 PM   #6
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Phasma is def the fett of this cycle. Character you want to be cool but isnt.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:25 PM   #7
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The retooling of the Force is by far the best thing they’ve done.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:36 PM   #8
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The variable is the viewer not the writing
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:41 PM   #9
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Obviously too young to have lived thru it, but where there complaints are the swerves the 2nd and 3rd film threw at the audience at time of release?

Like, were people upset at the "
..I am your father" like coming out of nowhere and rendering the "he murdered your father" line in the first film useless?

Were people upset that the Emperor was tossed to his death with little backstory? Legit curious.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
The variable is the viewer not the writing
Asking them to make sense of Snoke is not a die hard fan notion. My issues with their vehicle design and lightsaber choreography is nerd shit. Here I'm just saying using Snoke as a miniboss with no kind of context is lame. Even if this was a new franchise. He was clearly played on his mystery last time. He'd never be presented that way if they knew he was gonna get put down without so much as a motivation speech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 View Post
Like, were people upset at the "
..I am your father" like coming out of nowhere and rendering the "he murdered your father" line in the first film useless?

Were people upset that the Emperor was tossed to his death with little backstory? Legit curious.
Vader being Luke's father is a historic twist that paid off Obi-Wan's comments the movie before. Was it a stunt? Most likely, from a certain point of view. But even this example made use of some established history, it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

I'm gonna throw this out and guess nobody cared enough about Sidious' origins. It was the 80s. He's a badguy. He has to go. lol EVEN THEN, he was positioned as ultimate evil and master to Vader as Yoda was mentor to Luke. That was all we needed. To say Snoke can pull off the same lack of background after decades of world building is crazy.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post

I'm gonna throw this out and guess nobody cared enough about Sidious' origins. It was the 80s. He's a badguy. He has to go. lol EVEN THEN, he was positioned as ultimate evil and master to Vader as Yoda was mentor to Luke. That was all we needed. To say Snoke can pull off the same lack of background after decades of world building is crazy.
I have explained this like 10 times in this thread.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 View Post
Obviously too young to have lived thru it, but where there complaints are the swerves the 2nd and 3rd film threw at the audience at time of release?

Like, were people upset at the "
..I am your father" like coming out of nowhere and rendering the "he murdered your father" line in the first film useless?

Were people upset that the Emperor was tossed to his death with little backstory? Legit curious.
Most people were losing their minds over how cool it was and just enjoying the movie. But there were fignuts then bitching about the cannon error, yeah. Had a friend who didn't see 6 until we told them the retcon with obi won in 6. And lets be clear....that was total retcon. Vader was not a skywalker when lucas wrote 4.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Most people were losing their minds over how cool it was and just enjoying the movie. But there were fignuts then bitching about the cannon error, yeah. Had a friend who didn't see 6 until we told them the retcon with obi won in 6. And lets be clear....that was total retcon. Vader was not a skywalker when lucas wrote 4.
How people reacted to the original trilogy is completely irrelevant.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:06 PM   #14
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How people reacted to the original trilogy is completely irrelevant.
No it isnt. Its everything. It clearly demonstrates that youve changed not the franchise.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
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It clearly demonstrates that youve changed not the franchise.
It has and it hasn't.

You're correct in your previous statement that it's practices and tropes have "stayed authentic to itself."

It has changed in that there is now more history in the story, that makes staying authentic harder to do, while telling a coherent story.

The more you add to the history, and the lore, the more plot holes bad writing decisions are going to evolve if you ignore the history just remain true to the tropes that have been a part of the series. And the thing is, it doesn't even need those tropes. They aren't necessary to make star wars unique and special.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:42 PM   #16
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@ wwe

Except it makes what Darth Plagus did impossible. And the Skywalkers, who were supposed to be the connective tissue of the series due to their affinity to the Force (itself potentially because of what Plagus did), is now like... just people the Force choose to be that strong?

I have no issue with this 'avatars of the light and dark' neo/smith thing got going with Kylo and Rey. I'd even accept Rey getting so strong BECAUSE Luke cut himself off for years, forcing the Force to choose a new avatar for the light. It would even explain her being OP and add more credit to Rey actually sympathizing with Kylo during their magic snapchats.

But I guarantee I've just put more thought into it then they did just now.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:35 AM   #17
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But I guarantee I've just put more thought into it then they did just now.
This line probably sums up the new movie best.

Destor,

I think your argument of 'you were not alive' to see the old movies on Day 1 of 1977 is invalid.

By that standard of thought anyone younger than you should have a stronger opinion because it is the younger audience the movies are geared towards (in your words) and we're younger and closer to that age than you so perhaps our opinion shoulder carry more weight?

Pretty silly argument, either way.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:50 PM   #18
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Jedis have been around for thousands of years. There were many Jedi heroes long before the Skywalkers.

There were sith long before the Empire. I don’t get your point.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:50 PM   #19
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I'm not a hardcore Star Wars fan. I loved the last 2 films. And TLJ is prob my second fave, right behind Empire.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:51 PM   #20
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Was Dark Plagus mentioned before the prequels? That'd be pretty cool idea to expand on in their spinoff series
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:00 PM   #21
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Was Dark Plagus mentioned before the prequels? That'd be pretty cool idea to expand on in their spinoff series
Yep. Episode 3, Palpatine explained to Anakin his backstory in the form of a parable. He revealed that his master found a way to create life which is heavily implied to explain the eventual virgin birth of... Anakin. Which then explains why the Skywalkers were freaks of nature, which works whether by midichlorians or affinity to a mystic force. It's consistent either way.

Not anymore.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Yep. Episode 3, Palpatine explained to Anakin his backstory in the form of a parable. He revealed that his master found a way to create life which is heavily implied to explain the eventual virgin birth of... Anakin. Which then explains why the Skywalkers were freaks of nature, which works whether by midichlorians or affinity to a mystic force. It's consistent either way.

Not anymore.
This fan theory for the record.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:04 PM   #23
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This fan theory for the record.
But all but obvious.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Yep. Episode 3, Palpatine explained to Anakin his backstory in the form of a parable. He revealed that his master found a way to create life which is heavily implied to explain the eventual virgin birth of... Anakin. Which then explains why the Skywalkers were freaks of nature, which works whether by midichlorians or affinity to a mystic force. It's consistent either way.

Not anymore.
This post makes no sense. As a stated earlier there have been a thousand generations of Jedi and Sith. The sky walkers weren’t the first powerful beings.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:03 PM   #25
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Oh you said before. Oops.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:05 PM   #26
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I have explained this like 10 times in this thread.
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Oh you said before. Oops.
No yiuve said things that are flat out false because youre too young to actual,y fucking know and are just talking out of your ass. Youre literally lying when you say no one cared.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:13 PM   #27
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No yiuve said things that are flat out false because youre too young to actual,y fucking know and are just talking out of your ass. Youre literally lying when you say no one cared.
Nobody cared. Not even the mountains of EU material approached it, and I was alive to see nobody asking for his origin story THEN.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:24 PM   #28
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Why even do a sequel if we weren't in some fashion an essential part of the demo anyway? Just reboot it.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:26 PM   #29
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Also, people's reactions to palpatine isn't relevant, because this arguement isn't about that.

It's about comparing a mysterious powerful figure introduced in a trilogy with no preceding history vs a mysterious powerful figure introduced in a trilogy with a TON of preceding history.

That's it. Doesn't matter fuck all how people reacted, because it can't change bad writing.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:28 PM   #30
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A lot of tissues are needed in here. Jesus Christ.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:31 PM   #31
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Shut up, meg.
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:06 AM   #32
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Shut up, meg.
Send me your address. I will get tissues sent to you on tuesday.
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:29 AM   #33
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Send me your address. I will get tissues sent to you on tuesday.
its gotta be kane86
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:41 PM   #34
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I don't think Smoke is dead. Rem isn't intimidating enough to be the main bad guy at all. Believe in Snoke.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:42 PM   #35
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I would hold out hope but that gag scene with hux kind of makes me think no.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:26 AM   #36
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We still have another 2.5 hours of story to go. Ren is the clear villain. They have had two films now to reveal his backstory of succumbing to the dark side, because while we know he worships his grandfather, and we can see he's conflicted, the part where he committed to Snoke is still missing. No reason to think it won't be touched on in the finale of this trilogy.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:33 AM   #37
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With all the comic books and novels coming out as well, it is a sure thing that we won't have to wait as long to find out the origin story of Snoke as we did the emperor
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:28 AM   #38
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Give me yours, so I can send you some drizzling shits. Figure it's right up your alley since you loved this movie so much.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:39 AM   #39
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https://youtu.be/ZzO3DCW4LXw
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:28 PM   #40
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Some people liked it and some people didn’t. Thank you for continuing to establish that.
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