Hardy leaving WWE

[IC Champion]

Pffft, it's just Heyman.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Kinda Devil's Advocating here, but maybe they should have pushed Jeff to the ME scene. They push guys who aren't ready, guys who will never be ready, and guys who are injury prone. I mean, the ME scene on raw was so heavily built around Cena that his injury left them scrambling to fill a vacuum. Now, I'm not saying that its necessarily a good thing to compound bad booking with bad booking. What I am saying is that I'm not sure it would have hurt, guiven the "power vacuum" issues they've had on both shows over the last couple of years. And if Cena's merch really is the reason they're pushing him, a Monster Jeff Hardy push might have done a lot more good than harm for WWE, even if he failed a piss test or quit on them halfway through. Honestly, I wouldn't put Jeff near the ME scene ever, but WWE isn't interested in the way I'd book, so that doesn't really matter. By their own standards, Jeff Hardy is a valid main eventer. They've pushed guys who were leavbing, a guy who came back on a short stint from Hollywood, and guys who only make brief appearances and runs. A Jeff Hardy title run may have been a dumb idea, but it really doesn't seem any dumber than the ideas WWE seems to think equal money in the bank.

I get exactly what you are saying. Jeff Hardy is a cash cow, no doubt about it. But so is fucking Hornswoggle. You can't push a guy solely based on merchandise sales. Jeff moves a lot, true, but that is as the WWE has been pushing him. Jeff is a legitimate main eventer in the WWE. There is no reason he should not be happy with his current position on the card, especially given how much of a risk he has proven to be.

The WWE also let him have a run with the WWE Championship. So they didn't want the junkie to headline WrestleMania? That's not a big deal.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Casey Jones Summary of my points to Destor and fellow retards: 1) A clean win means far more than a non-clean win. Even in Austin's case, a clean win over HBK at WM-14 had more signficance...and made Austin look more credible...which probably helped contribute to him drawing more (although this obviously cannot be proven). On this note however - Austin was getting some clean victories over some credible opponents well before this anyways (as you alluded to, he was already huge well before then....but I didn't imply otherwise you idiot).

Yeah, clean wins do have more significance, but it is also the context of the clean wins. Sometimes they mark a changing of the post, and that is when it is entirely fair to have a guy bow out for a younger star. In the case of Jeff Hardy going over Triple H and The Undertaker, though, there had to be enough interest in rematches because both of those guys were sticking around in the title scene. They were merely throwing Jeff wins so he could build momentum heading into winning the WWE Title.

Jeff's wins weren't even entirely dirty. Sometimes he would get a pin because of a roll-up. It's still a fucking pin. He went over The Undertaker in an Extreme Rules Match he asked for. Those matches are all about who wins and who loses, not how it happens -- and Jeff Hardy won.

Plus, the man had the belt which was the right to make the statement "I am the best on SmackDown!." If that's not pushing someone, I don't know what is. So they didn't want to push Jeff Hardy like Austin or The Rock? That's fine, because Jeff Hardy is certainly not Austin or The Rock.

Originally Posted by Casey Jones 2) Just because a guy won't draw 7.0 ratings, is no excuse to not push new guys to the main-events. Jeff Hardy or no Jeff Hardy. You gave me reasons as to why Hardy shouldn't have been pushed. Great. Now tell me why guys like CM Punk, MVP, Santino Marella, etc. haven't been pushed much harder than they have been? Six years ago - why weren't guys like RVD, Jericho, and Booker T pushed more?....to the point where they were NON-TRANSITIONAL main-eventers? THIS is the problem that the WWE has right now. Their lack of an environment that allows for rising mid-carders to get to the main-event level in a short amount of time....and allowing wrestlers to become LONG TERM NON-TRANSITIONAL main-event guys.

Jeff Hardy was in the fucking main event, you douche. No one has really said that Jeff Hardy shouldn't get pushed. The fact is, the man was already getting a push. It just makes no sense to build the company entirely around the guy when he could be out of it tomorrow. When the WWE lost Brock Lesnar, they had to cover up by rushing John Cena to the main event. Do you really want another situation like that?

Half the guys you have listed did get their cracks in the main event, eventually. Sure, it came later than it should have, but it fucking came. And yes, it is a problem. Yes, the WWE books poorly, we get it. Booker T should have won the World Heavyweight Title at WrestleMania XIX; Rob Van Dam was over enough to have won the 2002 Royal Rumble; Chris Jericho's heel reign was awful. Yes, the WWE have missed the boat on some of their hottest acts (Matt Hardy and Christian in 2005, for example). But those men either all got their title reigns, or are building towards them now.

Then you've got guys like CM Punk getting pushed now. The guy will almost definitely hold another World Title by the year's end. MVP is on the rise, too. So are Shelton Benjamin and Jack Swagger. So many guys are getting pushed right now. There just has to be room. Getting rid of the junkies like Jeff Hardy opens up spots for someone like CM Punk to (again) take.

Originally Posted by Casey Jones 3) If a guy like Kurt Angle didn't make a dimes difference to TNA (let alone Christian, Booker T, Dudleys, Rikishi, and other former WWE employees), then Jeff Hardy wouldn't make that much of an IMPACT on TNA either.....despite the rub.

Wow, you just said that you wished guys weren't transitional champions, and then you go and list a bunch of transitional champions that didn't make a difference. Great. But how is that relevant if a guy like Jeff Hardy becomes THE FUCKING END ALL of the entire professional wrestling universe? Something which I don't think he can handle (evidently), as the guy is getting burnt out.

Originally Posted by Casey Jones 4) Did you ever consider the fact that the WWE might actually get PROPS from the media for firing their current WWE/World champ for drug useage?...especially during the era of the whole baseball scandal? You are still showing an inability to see BOTH sides of the argument.

No, because anyone could fucking look at the WWE's policy, see that Jeff Hardy had violated it twice before, and that the WWE pretty much put the title on a guy that could have taken the fall any day. Why have the fucking policy if the WWE displays the behaviour that it really doesn't care what its employees do, and is only punishing them as a formality?

I've considered whether or not the WWE should creatively punish talent creative for failing wellness tests, but when one really thinks about it, there has to be some sort of creative penalty. The top guy of the company needs to be dependable. You need to be able to trust them to be a good face for all facets of the company -- and at present that means them pissing clean. If John Cena violated the wellness policy, I'd suggest that he put over some fresh faces. I'd suggest the same thing if Shawn fucking Michaels did it.

That doesn't mean that Jeff Hardy getting another World Title again was out of the question. But it definitely isn't the company's best move to put him at the forefront of the company, and then have him out of it the next day, making them look like shifty customers.

Originally Posted by Casey Jones 5) There is a risk with everything....it's the nature of this business. Dave Batista had to vacate the title as champ due to injury. So what? Big deal - you move on. I re-iterate once again: Jeff should've been pushed....correctly. If he gets his 3rd strike, you fire him. There are huge risks with all wrestlers due to the nature of the business. In 1999, it was revealed that Austin needed serious neck surgery....and as result, wouldn't be able to compete in the triple threat match against Rock and HHH. Result? Big Show was inserted.

There is a massive leap between injuries making guys temporarily unavailable to fulfill their duties, and a guy bringing a black cloud over the company by embarrassing them in public face by getting his ass fired while he is advertised for future events, and is meant to be the role model of the company.

Jeff Hardy was pushed correctly all things considered, anyway. He wasn't pushed flat-out harder than anyone in the history of the business; but if the WWE did that with every guy they wanted to touch gold, it wouldn't mean anything when the next Austin or Rock came along.

Originally Posted by Casey Jones But again however - you seem to be missing my biggest point. THIS IS NOT ENTIERELY ABOUT JEFF HARDY. This is about creating an environment that can allow for rising mid-carders to "rise within the ranks" (in a short amount of time) and become LONG-TERM NON-TRANSITIONAL main-eventers. What's the WWE's excuse when it comes to CM Punk? MVP? Christian? What was the WWE's excuse when it came to RVD back in the day? Tell me why these guys haven't been adequately pushed? Or weren't adequately pushed?

Um, yes it is entirely about Jeff Hardy. This is a thread about Jeff Hardy feeling burnt out and wanting to go home. This is about the flake that got himself suspended twice, and used to no-show events. This is about the Jeff Hardy who has been on good behaviour for a while, but obviously feels like he can't keep it up at present.

Not every mid-carder needs to be elevated. Yes, some have all the tools to make it. Someone like CM Punk can wrestle, can talk, and has marketability. You've got guys on the roster like MVP, Christian and Mr. Kennedy who can do all of that. Hey, they also don't fail wellness tests. Well, okay, Mr. Kennedy does...

The thing is, someone like MVP puts up with a losing streak gimmick, keeps his head down, and is now emerging as a guy the WWE can trust, and can put the WWE Title on eventually. Someone like Jeff Hardy comes up with two suspensions, and then expects to be made WWE Champion, according to you? Look, I don't even think that's what happened. The truth is, Jeff Hardy cannot handle the business. He's not smart about the business, and he's just not good enough to demand the World Title like so many others.

Stone Cold Steve Austin -- his presence and popularity demanded that he go over Shawn Michaels cleanly and win the WWE Title. Jeff Hardy never had that kind of dynamic presence, and probably never will. Yes, the WWE should be more encouraging of their mid-carders, but Jeff Hardy was well above that level.

[FourFifty]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Kinda Devil's Advocating here, but maybe they should have pushed Jeff to the ME scene. They push guys who aren't ready, guys who will never be ready, and guys who are injury prone. I mean, the ME scene on raw was so heavily built around Cena that his injury left them scrambling to fill a vacuum. Now, I'm not saying that its necessarily a good thing to compound bad booking with bad booking. What I am saying is that I'm not sure it would have hurt, guiven the "power vacuum" issues they've had on both shows over the last couple of years. And if Cena's merch really is the reason they're pushing him, a Monster Jeff Hardy push might have done a lot more good than harm for WWE, even if he failed a piss test or quit on them halfway through. Honestly, I wouldn't put Jeff near the ME scene ever, but WWE isn't interested in the way I'd book, so that doesn't really matter. By their own standards, Jeff Hardy is a valid main eventer. They've pushed guys who were leavbing, a guy who came back on a short stint from Hollywood, and guys who only make brief appearances and runs. A Jeff Hardy title run may have been a dumb idea, but it really doesn't seem any dumber than the ideas WWE seems to think equal money in the bank.

Good point, KK

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Instant Classic Pffft, it's just Heyman.

Or, to sum it up:

HP;DR

[DAMN iNATOR]

Well, I hate to see him go, as he obviously has incredible talent, even enough to win the WWE title, even if it was just once, and only for a month. On the other hand I'm getting kinda sick of seeing his ass wear stupid face-paint that makes no sense everytime he wrestles...I like glow-in-the-dark type stuff (who doesn't), but when it's G-I-T-D face paint on Jeff Hardy? That just almost makes it too obvious to everyone who watches his matches just what a weird-ass pothead he truly is deep down.

So feeling sorta 50/50 about this news.

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by FourFifty Good point, KK

[Theo Dious]

I don't know if anyone is reading for real in this thread anymore or just navigating the flames. But.

If Jeff is feeling burnt out, I'm glad he's leaving in this fashion. Far better than him blowing the elephant by getting caught on another drug charge, or doing some kind of permament damage to himself. He had a great push to the title that made for some great watching, and finally had a fued that didn't suck ass with Matt. Jeff seems like he'll forever have a greater connection with and following from the fans, but I think it's been obvious for some time that Matt has the greater love for the business and is the one who lives and breathes it. Jeff is an artist with a very short attention spans... it seems he does what he does hard and passionately, but isn't going to settle down very long on any one project. I won't be surprised if we see him back in a year or two, but he may be done at this point, minus a few sporadic appearances here and there.