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Old 10-25-2009, 03:26 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
Rob, he was begging the question. He's trolling.
Works both ways

Don't confuse me with the little hitler mod on here. I understand jokes and trolling
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:29 AM   #162
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I wouldn't normally wind someone up in a SERIOUS discussion forum but he literally flipped out and started accusing me of not watching just because I hold the opinion that it was not a rigged robbery.

How could I seriously resist ??? I mean seriously
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:33 AM   #163
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I accused you of not watching because you didnt watch.
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:33 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Cash View Post
I wouldn't normally wind someone up in a SERIOUS discussion forum but he literally flipped out and started accusing me of not watching just because I hold the opinion that it was not a rigged robbery.

How could I seriously resist ??? I mean seriously
Did you watch?

did you?

I mean seriously?
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:20 AM   #165
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So the UFC's honeymoon period of not being 'dirty' like Boxing is over then
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:21 AM   #166
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I thought Machida won.



Round 2.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:25 AM   #167
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if you have stated in this thread, in any way, shape or form, that "you can see" how the fight could have legitimatly gone to Machida, then you either:

A: didnt watch the fight...

or B: wish to lend yourself credibility by agreeing with the so-called experts [judges], only proving that you lack confidence in your own sensory perception when it comes to judging a fight.

most likely it is both A and B.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:36 AM   #168
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Wow...that was unbelievable...

Sonnen will be upset though, it showed up his win against Okami
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:57 AM   #169
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I think shogun won but stop saying shit was fucking rigged cuz that means if shogun KOed machida then they would have still given the match to machida so stop that shit. judges are fucking retarded and they like to either side with the champion or the bigger name and in this fight id say that they went with both and ended up giving it to machida... thats how it fuckin is, it sucks, oh well. thats why you need to finish fights.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:58 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ct2k View Post
So the UFC's honeymoon period of not being 'dirty' like Boxing is over then
it ended for me after the Bisping / Hammil fight. that one, i could see blaming biased local judges giving the win to the hometown hero.

then the Forrest / Rampage fight. that one was pretty bad because i only give Forrest round 2 in that fight, but i wasnt suprised by the decision just given the marketablity of Forrest Griffin. Forrest is a huge personallity in the sport and was probably the most popular fighter in the UFC at the time. and, lets be honest here, when it comes to fighting sports - in this country, there is still something to be said for being white, when it comes to getting over with the casual fans. sorry.

but even in that fight, the action was close enough that i could at least question my own sensory perception...along with half the people who saw the fight......and 90% of real MMA fans...

but now this. this wasnt even close. personally, i think Shogun won every round. and i dont even like Shogun. my MMA fandom doesnt extend to Pride. i've only seen Shogun in the UFC. so to me, Shogun has just been some over-rated dude who has looked like shit since arriving in the UFC. of course, he looked much improved when he beat Chuck Liddell. and tonight he was the best in the world at 205 lbs, solving the Machida Enigma and anyone who says they aggree with tonights decision is just making themself look stupid.

why would Dana and the UFC fix a decision though? marketability maybe. it seemed that Machida was getting over with the fans, which was natural since he seemed basically unbeatable, and almost untouchable. Machida is a handsome dude, so i can see how he might draw more female fans. or maybe just the fact that if there had been a just decision tonight, no LHW champion would have successfully defended the LHW Title since Rampage Jackson, 3 champions ago. sounds a little paranoid and far feched? it probably is. it's probably just a problem of incredibly blind and retarded judges. if that's the case, then i think tonight those judges have hurt the credibility of this sport - and rightly so.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:56 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerWolf View Post
why would Dana and the UFC fix a decision though?


To hype up the instant rematch
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:22 AM   #172
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The UFC don't pick the judges guys. Lets settle down with the conspiracies. Why would it be in the UFCs interest to rig a fight for Machida. Yes, thats a man to build a company around *jumps backwards, puts crowd to sleep*

FightMetric: 49-47 Rua

Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
Savage Science: 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen: 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
411mania.com: 48-47 Rua
CagePotato: 49-46 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker : Rua (no score given)
MMAConvert: Rua ("Machida was given a gift")
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua
Sherdog:
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua
Sports Illustrated (thanks jamers):
Ben Fowlkes - Rua ("They say you have to clearly beat the champion if you want to take his belt. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua seemed to have done just that at UFC 104 on Saturday night, but the mere fact that UFC light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida was still conscious at the end was apparently enough for the judges to give him the victory")
Joss Gross: 48-47 Rua

I copied and pasted this from a poster at rajahs who was kind enough to collect all this. While noone did give the fight to Machida. There were a shitload of 48-47 scorelines. It all came down to that second round as I said.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:23 AM   #173
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Double post.

*scores fight 48-47 Machida. Collects bribe money*
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:32 AM   #174
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lol, Fags.
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:12 AM   #175
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Rewatched the fight, still can't believe it. Rua V Machida will most likely Main event 109 (or 108 if Anderson isn't cleared to fight Belfort)
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:14 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do? View Post
Machida seriously needs to vacate the title. It's the only way he's going to save face. Granted it's not his fault, but people are always going to call bullshit on that win.
I wouldn't say that, but I would state a quick rematch.
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:27 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder View Post
To hype up the instant rematch
Have a word with yourself RP. There are 5 or 6 bigger drawing LHW's to go against either one. The last thing they wanted was to have to do this twice.

I had it 4-1 to Rua, but it wasn't the shut out you girls are making out. Rogan and Goldberg were talking up Rua's dominance, and for every shot he was landing, he was eating an undiscussed counter. there was a few take down efforts that Machida managed to avoid, and thats a point to the defender in scoring.

Anyway, Torres has just scored, so I will argue about this later.
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:36 AM   #178
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while it lasts:
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:47 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
I had it 4-1 to Rua, but it wasn't the shut out you girls are making out. Rogan and Goldberg were talking up Rua's dominance, and for every shot he was landing, he was eating an undiscussed counter.
Yea that pretty much suns up how I feel about the fight, after watching it twice. It wasn't a dominant throughout like GSP over Alves. But Shogun definitely won more rounds than Machida. I think it was clearly 4-1 and a 3-2 decision is pushing it, regardless of how close the first two rounds were.

I think it's a shame that we're spending all this time talking about the controversial decision instead of the fight itself. Shogun fought a beautiful fight. I still stand by my assessment that this fight was more traditional than MMA. Great fight, tremendous fight. Really even through the first two and then Shogun started to take it away. Would love to watch these two fight again to see how Machida adapts his strategy and how Shogun would adapt to Machida's adaption.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:01 PM   #180
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i think anyone saying it was dominant is overexaggerating, but shogun was obviously the aggressor and did by far the most damage. im gonna watch the fight again later and pay a bit more attention.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:14 PM   #181
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Watch it without the commentary. Poison minds them two do.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:19 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabien Barthez View Post
Watch it without the commentary. Poison minds them two do.
What about the entire sold out Staples Center that watched it without commentary?
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:33 PM   #183
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http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

Rua outstruck Machida clearly in every round. Stats prove it.
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:22 PM   #184
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Can somebody post the entire fight?
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Old 10-25-2009, 01:34 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
What about the entire sold out Staples Center that watched it without commentary?
I've already said how I scored it, just saying you would probably have Machida a little closer on a few rounds than you do in retrospect. Rua deffinately won the last 3 for me, which makes it hainus. Round 4 was Rua's best of the fight, and Hamilton scored it to Machida.

Hamilton and Peoples are probably the 2 longest standing MMA judges who have regularly covered UFC. It's weird.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:22 PM   #186
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Ok, so I havne't been able to see round 5 yet but I can see the problem with this fight.

Round 1 and 3 were pretty close and I think it was round 2 that Machida won. I think when a round is too close to call the judges will lean towards the champion. Shogun did push the action more but I don't think he landed more and being stuffed on every take down will give Machida the advantage. So assuming Rua won round 5 I can see him winning 49-46 or losing 48-47 and that is where the judges come into play. I'm surprised this wasn't a split decision but I can understand the outcome.

Guys, calm down a little bit. It was a very tough fight to score. Remember, being on tv we get the best view of the action, the judges don't necessarily; the ref could be in the way, might not see a punch land, or see a punch land that actually didn't. The issue here is it was left in the judges hands. Neither man really seemed to go balls out looking for the knockout and that makes so many rounds go either way.

The scoring system in MMA sucks. I dont' think judging a fight round by round with a 10 point must is the way to go. But since somebody must be given a 10 and sometimes it's too close to call, you get outcomes like this. Machida won the fight based on the scoring rules, Shogun won the fight based on scoring the fight as a whole.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:37 PM   #187
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Yeah I had Machida winning a round, MAYBE 2 if you want to be generous. Rua controlled the fight and dominated Machida times making him look helpless. I don't know what fight the judges watched.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

Rua outstruck Machida clearly in every round. Stats prove it.
Rua was robbed, Machida was all banged up after the fight, and probably has a couple cracked ribs.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:54 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
Can somebody post the entire fight?
the user who posted the video I showed has the entire fight under his page
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:57 PM   #190
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:59 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Pete Cash View Post


Calm down you maniacs.

The first 2 rounds were really, really, really close for mine. I though Machida quite clearly won 3 and Shogun quite clearly won 4 and 5. Welcome to a sport where you win a match based not on how you perform overall but on a round to round basis.

I don't get how Hamilton gave 4 to Machida... thats weird but I can certainly SEE how he won the first 3. It was a competitive fight and you would have to be some kind of lunatic not to see how close the first two rounds were.
Same here. I had the first two rounds were close, but I leaned towards Shogun on both. I was far from happy that Machida won, but I am pissed at the judges, not Machida or Dana. Cecil Peoples has a reputation of not even WATCHING the fight half the time, as pictures have shown him, a Judge for multiple Athletic Commissions, talking on his cell phone with his back to the cage. wtf.

Hamilton I haven't heard as much about, but he's made some bad calls.

The system needs to be fixed, the fight wasn't.
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:18 PM   #192
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SERIOUSLY ITS NOT RIGGED!

What the fuck dont you guys that are saying that get? UFC has NO say in what the judges do.

When a round is close the judges will side with the person who is either A. the champion (machida, sylvia vs arlovski 3) or B. the bigger name (couture over sylvia, forrest over rampage). They also remember past performances and I gaurantee you that they saw some of Shogun's past shit performances.

Lets not forget that these are people making judgement calls, not robots and decisions are not made via fan votes.
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:53 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
SERIOUSLY ITS NOT RIGGED!

What the fuck dont you guys that are saying that get? UFC has NO say in what the judges do.

When a round is close the judges will side with the person who is either A. the champion (machida, sylvia vs arlovski 3) or B. the bigger name (couture over sylvia, forrest over rampage). They also remember past performances and I gaurantee you that they saw some of Shogun's past shit performances.

Lets not forget that these are people making judgement calls, not robots and decisions are not made via fan votes.
you say that - and youre probably right. but, you saw the fight. i mean, there's just no fuckin way. which makes it hard not to consider things like the amount of money riding on Machida (the 4-1 favorite), just as an example.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:00 PM   #194
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umm YOU say THAT which makes it hard not to consider that you are retarded.


Do you realize how much money UFC dropped to get Shogun into the UFC??? They want him to do well to finally get a good return on their investment of him. If the UFC was fixing fights, they would give it to him so they could hype him and then make him even more marketable.
Last edited by Reavant; 10-25-2009 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:08 PM   #195
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Shogun is actually much more marketable than Machida. Shogun is explosive, with vicious stand up, submissions and ground and pound. Machida is elusive, and has only recently taken to finishing opponents.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:28 PM   #196
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Exactly... up until he KOed Thiago Silva, nobody liked to watch him.

I dont get it. You have all seen shit decisions before. How, by now can you be so ignorant towards how everything works?

The state athletic commissions appoint refs and judges, not the UFC. This is because if the UFC did appoint them, they could fix fights and THAT would be a FEDERAL CRIME.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:37 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
Exactly... up until he KOed Thiago Silva, nobody liked to watch him.

I dont get it. You have all seen shit decisions before. How, by now can you be so ignorant towards how everything works?

The state athletic commissions appoint refs and judges, not the UFC. This is because if the UFC did appoint them, they could fix fights and THAT would be a FEDERAL CRIME.
This
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:50 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
I think shogun won but stop saying shit was fucking rigged cuz that means if shogun KOed machida then they would have still given the match to machida so stop that shit. judges are fucking retarded and they like to either side with the champion or the bigger name and in this fight id say that they went with both and ended up giving it to machida... thats how it fuckin is, it sucks, oh well. thats why you need to finish fights.
This.

How many times has it happenned in boxing.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:20 PM   #199
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[QUOTE=Reavant;2786758]

Quote:
umm YOU say THAT which makes it hard not to consider that you are retarded.


i agreed with you about the Forrest/Rampage fight - that the judges leaned in favor of the guy who was more the most "over" guy in the UFC. i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist. what i'm saying is we saw the fight. the action wasnt even close. so, is it really naive of me just to consider the possibility that three experts who came up with such a flagrant, outrageous judgement may have been acting on behalf of someone's interest? possibly even their own? is it not possible?
Quote:
Do you realize how much money UFC dropped to get Shogun into the UFC??? They want him to do well to finally get a good return on their investment of him. If the UFC was fixing fights, they would give it to him so they could hype him and then make him even more marketable.
when i said "money riding on Machida" i meant in a 4 to 1 favorite, gambling sense - not a time and investment sense.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:37 PM   #200
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Is this the reaction of a man who thought he won?
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