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View Poll Results: Do you like the Shield?
Yay 58 87.88%
Nay 1 1.52%
Meh 7 10.61%
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:00 PM   #201
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Ah nevermind. Didn't realize that stable had a name. Didn't watch too muchwrestling between 2001 and 2003
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:16 PM   #202
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I watched more during that period than I did after I joined the Navy.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:34 PM   #203
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Is it just me or does Ambrose look like he wouldn't be out of place shedding the flak vest and joining a reunited Deuce and Domino?
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:13 PM   #204
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Tom Guycott and DeathtotheSwiss have made some great posts in here. I agree with them and feel that The Shield actually are larger than life. They handed The Undertaker his first loss in over five years. There's never really been a group just like them in the WWE and they make up for whatever shortcomings you can put on any specific member (whether it be a lack of mic skills, ring experience or size).

One of my little nephews describes The Shield as "army ninjas." If these guys were all giant, maybe they would have that extra "dominating" vibe about them, but they wouldn't be nearly as cool as they currently are, and their matches would be nowhere near as exciting. And no, it's not because I'm a sucker for "workra!e." It's the stories these guys can tell in the ring, it's how they bump, how they move and all that. Their ring psychology is pretty great, and that's helping them look credible and helps their matches often be the best part of any show.

They will need fresh opponents soon, and I actually think that the team of Sheamus & Randy Orton, given their past alignment, could be a perfect foil for a little bit. That six-man to close SmackDown was amazing.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:23 PM   #205
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I'm also pretty bored by The Ryback. I enjoy his general heel attitude these days. He's "evolving" and growing a personality. I think there is potential in the "I've worked hard my entire life to be a beast and not be a shitty member of society like you guys" shtick that was hinted at on RAW. As a heel, people will really latch onto the losses Ryback suffers, and it will make him a pretty solid choice to put certain babyfaces over. I just can't really get into the idea of him being WWE Champion, though. There's something missing from him that I just can't put my finger on. I kind of feel like he kept losing to The Shield because they were always just more interesting than him. To have Ryback beat The Shield just never felt right.

Anyway, I know Gerts and #1-wwf-fan love the guy, but I just don't see that magic. He looks the part, he's got some good moves, and I don't even think he's a rubbish talker -- he just doesn't stick as well as I think he should for someone in his position. While he's much better than them in almost virtually every aspect, I kind of feel about Ryback challenging for the WWE Title like I would Mason Ryan or Ezekiel Jackson going for it. Just because they are ripped don't make them "larger than life," necessarily.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:32 PM   #206
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Ryback also reminds me of Bonesaw from the first Spiderman movie as played by "Macho Man" Randy Savage. He's just this big, grunting "I'm going to get ya!" professional wrestling stereotype that I kind of feel has gone the way of the foreign heel in terms of its effectiveness. There was once a time when being big and grunting at the hero worked, but now people want their villains with Joker-like complexity. If you want to compare professional wrestling to superhero stories, that's fine, but you didn't just have overcharged heroes and "I'm going to squish the good guy" villains. Superman's greatest nemesis has always been Lex Luthor -- who used brains and resources to try and take him down. Not all heroes are Superman, either. Batman has no superpowers, but trains hard and gets ahead on skill and by rebounding from his loses and using knowledge of his foes to overcome them. CM Punk compliments John Cena as a top guy in this sense very well. Not everybody needs to be a brick wall that can hit you.

Also, Heath Slater is amazing. His psychology is fantastic. I'd love to see him get a crack as a babyface one day, although he should have a long career ahead of him as a heel that makes other people look good.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:34 PM   #207
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That we see Seth Rollins fly across the ring and knee Kane in the face is believable enough for me. I see him do it, I see Kane sell it, I am sold the story that Rollins can knee Kane in the face and get away with it. Maybe it wouldn't have worked day one for Rollins, but The Shield have been great for explaining how Rollins is able to do this, and how he continues to get away with it. I now buy Rollins as being on that level.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:18 AM   #208
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Anyway, I know Gerts and #1-wwf-fan love the guy, but I just don't see that magic. He looks the part, he's got some good moves, and I don't even think he's a rubbish talker -- he just doesn't stick as well as I think he should for someone in his position.
The fact that they've literally done nothing but job him out since he started facing legit guys might have something to do with that. It's tough to care about a "monster" who can't win a match.

When he started that feud with Punk though you can't tell me that just anyone would have gotten the kind of reactions he was getting. It was magic. Crowds were eating it up and he was a breath of fresh air after years of people looking for the "next big thing". I don't even agree with Gertner that he should have won the title at HIAC. I thought the story was already set for Punk, Rock and Cena and the way they got out of the predicament of having to figure out an outcome that didn't fuck something up was perfect. The way he's been handled SINCE though is completely inexcusable and retarded given how over he was before the losing streak.
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Old 05-27-2013, 06:19 PM   #209
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I agree that he was getting over, but the dude's push has never really faltered. They've always given him a kayfabe reason for losing and he's been made to look like he can fight anyone in the WWE at any time. People just don't care any more because the character was never that interesting and, in my opinion, was always going to fizzle.

I'll compare Ryback to Batista for a second -- if you had just gotten Batista, had this really ripped, charismatic, solid big man destroy people with his lariats and his spinebusters and his powerbombs -- yeah, he might have gotten over and won the World Heavyweight Title had the company really tried and pushed him towards it. But Batista got over and became a consistent top-level star because he showed other things. He was a supporting player in Evolution, essentially there to be an enforcer to Triple H and Randy Orton. He got a few Tag Title reigns with Ric Flair, but he was never the main attraction of the group, and had he been pushed as such, it may not have worked. What Batista did show was a confidence, quiet charisma and bad-assery that eventually swelled up his following to the point where it was inevitable he would break away from the group. He wasn't dumb, he didn't keep hitting his head against the wall against "smarter" heels, and he was actually the one who first struck out against Triple H and Ric Flair. Yes, Triple H putting Batista over cleanly three times helped, but that became an inevitability given the chance to create a major star in front of them.

Ryback, whether because he lacks that extra spark Batista had, or merely for timing or creative reasons, has actually be a victim of booking that inevitably goes against him. He wasn't as interesting as CM Punk, and Punk vs. Rock was always going to be the attraction for the Royal Rumble -- it was always going to be the better match, the better storyline, the better promos, the better draw and just overall better -- so there was never any reason to go with this two-dimensional hoss as champion. That's why I suggested they never put Ryback in the situation at the time, and actually suggested Ryback turn on Vince McMahon and John Cena and align himself with Paul Heyman. Putting Ryback on the side of Heyman and Punk would have given Punk muscle, given Ryback time to develop a personality (why would he join them?), given Ryback two people to talk for him, and created a kayfabe situation where people could speculate that Punk and Heyman are trying to control Ryback because they are afraid of the threat he posses to the WWE Title.

Now he's a heel and the question isn't Goldberg's "Who next?" but "What next?" because the guy just seems to be an upper mid-card muscle-bound bad guy like any other we have seen. Just like when he was a babyface he was an upper mid-card muscle-bound good guy. We've never had motivation for Ryback, and while "he just likes to beat up people and be the best" exists, it's not really compelling when there are more interesting personas and stories going. Putting the WWE Title on him would just be like how they give every girl a chance with the Divas Title eventually.
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Old 05-27-2013, 06:22 PM   #210
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Gertner likes to call people "vanilla midget" and such, but I find Ryback to be about as vanilla as they come. Maybe not the man behind the character, but both "Feed me more!" and "Ryback rules!" have been yawn-fests for me, as someone who enjoys characters and more kinetic storylines.
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:05 PM   #211
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Ryback has the chance to be a mega star. The Shield are only going to be mega stars in the eyes of delusional smarks.
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:27 AM   #212
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Ryback has the chance to be a mega star in the eyes of meatheads who don't like interesting characters
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:45 AM   #213
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I agree that he was getting over, but the dude's push has never really faltered. They've always given him a kayfabe reason for losing and he's been made to look like he can fight anyone in the WWE at any time. People just don't care any more because the character was never that interesting and, in my opinion, was always going to fizzle.
Really? Losing your first 6 real PPV matches doesn't falter your push? Come on. lol

They've always given him a reason for losing? They should have tried giving him a reason for winning at least once. Maybe winning matches can help a push. Crazy concept, I know.
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:47 AM   #214
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Ryback has the chance to be a mega star. The Shield are only going to be mega stars in the eyes of delusional smarks.
It won't be as a heel though. The heel turn was a random last ditch effort after they fucked up his face push royally. We're seriously at a level of inept character development that wrestling has never seen before.
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:58 AM   #215
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Back to Noid's point. Here's what I mean when I say Ryback should have beat Punk.

Ryback was getting over beating nobodies. Not even low card guys. Then he did a mini feud with Jinder Mahal. No need to rush. I was perfectly fine with that. It between he'd face guys like Reks/Hawkins, somehow beat Slater all the while getting over. Then Cena gets hurt and they scramble being short sighted and moving him straight into a feud with Punk. There was no need for it. You have a guy who is a beast, pretty agile, getting over beating nobodies, so why in the fuck do you put him in a feud with Punk! They weren't gonna take the title off Punk so why waste Ryback! His feud with Henry should have been his biggest feud yet if booked right. All I heard was "well his momentum won't get lost if he loses to Punk under fishy circumstances", despite my claims it would, and guess what? IT DID! Then they move him into a feud with a group that they weren't gonna have lose so early. Again, "well he'll lose under fishy circumstances, he won't lose momentum". Again, I said it would. IT DID! I don't mind him losing, but constantly putting him into feuds with guys you know aren't gonna lose, and it just killed his momentum. Ryback has been a complete waste and he's again in a feud with a fresh champ, not gonna win the title and continue fuck things up. He's a monster who was cheered. People like seeing guys like Ryback and Goldberg rip peoples heads off. Completely inept booking by the WWE and I rarely bitch about booking, but this is fucking retarded.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:11 AM   #216
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Exactly. The "fishy circumstances" thing I think worked with Punk. He literally didn't even actually lose. It was a fast count. And it took away the undefeated streak stigma without having him look weak by actually losing. Then he does his finisher on top of the cell and has a little moment to make him shine over the WWE champ. Like I said, I liked that. If they had kept him looking like a beast after that he would have been fine.

There's only so far you can take the "Well, BUT IT WAS UNDER FISHY CIRCUMSTANCES" thing though before you've got a guy just looking weak. Seriously... 7 PPV matches since he moved up to facing legit guys and he hasn't won a single match. After how over he was when he got in his first real feud. Fucking retarded.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:13 AM   #217
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Momentum is such and underrated thing in wrestling nowadays. Not only did they stop his momentum, they fucking killed it to the point where it almost seemed like they were terrified at the fact that someone was gonna get over and did everything they could to snuff it out. Like there were moles from TNA who got a job writing for them. lol

It was that blatantly awful.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:21 AM   #218
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Like how in the fuck does he not beat Henry? I heard they were setting Henry up to feud with Cena, but they go and move Henry to Sheamus and then have him lose? What the hell was the point of Ryback losing to Henry then? To set up a pointless Ryback heel turn? It makes no sense at all.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:23 AM   #219
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If anything, Ryback should have feuded with Big Show around Survivor Series/ Rumble time and then moved onto Henry. He should have been kept as far away from the World Title picture until Summerslam.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:26 AM   #220
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Ideally, yes.

But if Mark Henry is the "monster" you've got to put him up against at WrestleMania... How the fuck does it get is people's minds that putting Henry over Ryback is the right choice??? Jesus!
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:27 AM   #221
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Seriously. A room full of WELL PAID writers agreed that this was this was the smart decision. HOLY FUCK!
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:31 AM   #222
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Like how in the fuck does he not beat Henry? I heard they were setting Henry up to feud with Cena, but they go and move Henry to Sheamus and then have him lose? What the hell was the point of Ryback losing to Henry then? To set up a pointless Ryback heel turn? It makes no sense at all.
I didn't mind Henry beating Ryback, because it doesn't really hurt Ryback to lose to a guy like Henry, and especially when He's going to be fueding with Cena next.

But then yeah, they botched the follow up and the whole thing ended up being pointless.

I have enjoyed Ryback more as a Heel. He's shown more character lately.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:35 AM   #223
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Also Mark Henry will eat your children. Henry going over is never a bad decision.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:40 AM   #224
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I didn't mind Henry beating Ryback, because it doesn't really hurt Ryback to lose to a guy like Henry, and especially when He's going to be fueding with Cena next.

But then yeah, they botched the follow up and the whole thing ended up being pointless.

I have enjoyed Ryback more as a Heel. He's shown more character lately.
It does when Ryback has lost 6 ppv matches in a row. And yes he's feuding with Cena: another guy who just became champ, who they aren't going to take title off. Chalk up another ppv loss.


You have to look at this in the grand scheme of things and not in a match by match basis. Losing to Henry isn't bad, but having Henry go and get dominated by Sheamus the following ppv just makes the Ryback and Henry feud a complete waste.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:41 AM   #225
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And Slowen get your retarded ass out of our thread.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:46 AM   #226
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Really, the plans were set in motion the very next night for Ryback vs. Cena. Let's face it, Henry is on his last legs. Ryback is just getting started. And you've already decided on Ryback to be the guy who challenges Cena next. Why the fuck do you continue to refuse to let him win a match? lol
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:48 AM   #227
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Losing to Henry after a continual streak of dominance is one thing. Losing to him after being booked as a loser for your entire career (not counting no-name jobbers) and then trying to be passed off as a monster title contender is beyond retarded.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:49 AM   #228
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Well, maybe it will all work out for the best. No bigger rub than beating John Cena for the title, outside of maybe ending the streak.

Mark Henry can come back as a face, grinning like a fucking idiot like he always does when he's a face, and lose to Ryback.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:49 AM   #229
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Has Ryback ever lost clean?
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:51 AM   #230
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Fignuts. He's not beating Cena right after Wrestlemania. Not a snowballs chance in hell.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:52 AM   #231
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Quote:
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Has Ryback ever lost clean?
Henry beat him clean and Ryback took the pin in the 6 man match against The Shield both on ppv.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:55 AM   #232
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Consecutive PPVs. His last two. And if you count the Royal Rumble, that would be another one.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:00 AM   #233
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Well whatever, I don't see the point in talking about it really, it's in the past, and at the moment he is believably kicking the shit out of John Cena, and the crowd is going nuts for it, so all that bad booking couldn't have had that much of an impact.

Feel like they can turn him face again at any time, and it would work out just fine. At the moment though, I'm really enjoying the Ryback/cena feud.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:00 AM   #234
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Jesus run on sentence
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:16 AM   #235
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therocksays post right there.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:25 AM   #236
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I think Cena losing is unlikely but not entirely out of the question. Maybe not at Payback, but possibly SummerSlam. Even if Ryback loses the Ambulance match, he can argue that Cena has never actually pinned him. The chemistry between them isn't Cena/Punk level, but I think it's good enough to keep the fued going for a while.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:26 AM   #237
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I'm guessing with it being Summerslam, Cena is gonna get put into a megafeud
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:32 AM   #238
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Cena vs Ryback already is a megafued though. As one of the biggest PPVs of the year it would be a great place for the climax of the rivalry.

Can't really think of who else he can feud with anyway. Punk is supposedly facing Lesnar. Mark Henry is coming back a face.And anyone else wouldn't be as epic as Cena/Ryback.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:43 AM   #239
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I can't see how Cena vs a guy who has never won a meaningful match is a megafeud.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:47 AM   #240
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Because despite whatever bad booking he's been through, he still comes off as an enormous threat, and he's still one of the most over guys in the company.
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