NFL 2005 Season Thread

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by ddpBANG Yeah, you're right, it's not the team around him, because there IS no team around him. The Packers would be smart if they put a running back behind Favre.

Originally Posted by ddpBANG Yeah, you're right, it's not the team around him, because there IS no team around him. The Packers would be smart if they put a running back behind Favre.

First off, That's it for the season... another rebuilding period for the queens ahead.

Second off, yeah, all Favre needed was an O-Line, which provided him with a superstar HB, which gave him enough protection that he could PA into anything. He didn't need a defense. He didn't need a whole team. He just needed a little help.

Sherman is a horrible GM. He ruined one of the top OL in football, never improved the defense, and his skill position players got hurt. He put too much weight on Green, Davenport and Walker's shoulders and it bit him in the ass. He's still got the skill to win a superbowl if he was on a good team.

Third off, Pat Williams was an undrafted Rookie Free Agent. He signed for a "good" contract, but nothing more. He should be getting more than he's getting. He's got a chip on his shoulder, he doesn't think like other people think. Most players, like the ones in the pro bowl, they were drafted with EXPECTATIONS of getting to the Pro Bowl. These guys were all 1st round picks, pretty sure. Dunno about Rod Coleman, but the point is... they were drafted. How many HBs do you know who care about fantasy stats? Priest Holmes does. He has a chip on his shoulder, too. He wants to get as many stats as possible in the short time he has in the league, because his time in the NFL matters a whole lot more than someone like LT, who started as a rookie. Priest Holmes and Pat Williams spent years on the bench before they had their chance. They know their careers aren't going to be as prolific as Bret Favre's. They started their careers in hurry-up offense mode. That's why, when Pat Williams laughs and mocks a Center for being pathetic and incapable of blocking him, even when his team loses, you understand. It's not about the team. No team has ever handed anything to him, so he doesn't owe anybody anything.

But basically, he made Olin Kreutz his personal bitch, and Kreutz makes the Pro Bowl every year. When the best center goes against a DT and gets decimated... that's an estimation of the quality of a player.

[The Outlaw]

Originally Posted by BCWWF I'm sorry but Brett Favre just isn't good anymore. It's not the team around him, he hasn't been great for years now. Commentators love to suck his dick, but the Packers would be smart to put Aaron Rodgers in next year.

Wow.

Favre is making horrible decisions, but it's pretty obvious he is trying to force things because...well...he basically feels he HAS to.

Andrae Thurman.
Samkon Gado.
Noah Herron.
David Martin.
Robert Ferguson.
Antonio Chatman.
Rod Gardner.

How many of those guys had you heard of before this year? How many of them do you have no idea who they are?

These guys are the Packers skill players sir.

[Joey Slugs]

DA BEARS!

2005 NFC North Champs!

Locked up that 2 seed (but I'll just so "happen" to forget what happened that last time the bears played a playoff game at home) as well.

[CNM]

Favre might not have a great team around him anymore, but he sure makes some horrible decisions. Decisions that a guy who has been around as long as he has shouldn't make. Most of his interceptions are on him.

[BCWWF]

So all those horrible interceptions are everybody elses fault?

You guys can stop pretending, he hasn't been the Brett Favre that he has been talked up to be for years. He is hella tough, there is no doubt about that, but he's not a great passer anymore and he makes a lot of poor decisions.

He is the iron man, but the Packers will be better off with somebody else starting next year.

[ddpBANG]

I agree, he's not the Favre of old, but he would throw less interceptions if the Pack had a decent running game and an O-Line that could buy him a little time.

[VonErich Lives]

Favre has the same issue with "bad decisions" that Bledsoe does. They both have cannon arms that they rely on, they both see a guy 30yds down field, double covered with a small seperation and say "I can't put that in there" and for years, Favre did, now maybe he lost a little off his throw, and those same balls, becomes INT's rather then amazing plays. The Packers do need to rebuild, they do need to start Aaron Rodgers, but not until they have a healthy running game and an OL to block. Till then, why not let Favre get killed and Rodgers stay on the bench. Also, don't forget GB always had a history of drafting "the next QB" and after a few years on the bench dealing him for a pick (see: Aaron Brooks & Mark Brunell)

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Rodgers didn't look all that great last week in garbage time against the Ravens (btw what the hell has happened there? I know they haven't exactly been playing the Bears and Pats but suddenly Boller looks at least serviceable) but again that's mainly down to not having anything around him, bad situation for him to come into. They should rebuild and get guys healthy before he gets anywhere near the start.

To me it looks like the whole team just wants this season over and done with, can't say I blame them. I have no great affinity for Favre but he is basically out there trying to win on his own (Driver being the exception I guess, although he was pussying out of some balls last week)

[UmbrellaCorporation]

Speaking of Boller, he played pretty awesomely last night against the Vikings. Wasn't too bad of a game at all.

As for Favre, I love him, always have. I can see this from two sides though. He HAS lost some of his edge, but he's by no bounds a bad quarterback. On the other hand, the Packers offense has a bunch of guys that just seemed to pop up overnight. Even if Favre gets a good pass off, chances are that those guys will blow it.

[BCWWF]

OK Brad Johnson is a guy who is getting way too much credit. He is simply an average quarterback, and that is why the Vikings aren't going to the playoffs. I give him all the credit it the world for winning all those games, but to do that he basically just had to be consistantly average.

When it comes to winning a big game (such as the last two) you have to be better then just a consistantly average quarterback. When somebody starts to chase him, it's over. He just isn't good enough to lead a team places, he is only good enough to do what a backup is supposed to do.

So all the credit in the world for what he deserves, but he doesn't deserve any more than a backup quarterback successfully going through the punches.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

yeah Brad Johnson can't lead anybody anywhere in any big game like that Super Bowl he won

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by BCWWF OK Brad Johnson is a guy who is getting way too much credit. He is simply an average quarterback, and that is why the Vikings aren't going to the playoffs. I give him all the credit it the world for winning all those games, but to do that he basically just had to be consistantly average. When it comes to winning a big game (such as the last two) you have to be better then just a consistantly average quarterback. When somebody starts to chase him, it's over. He just isn't good enough to lead a team places, he is only good enough to do what a backup is supposed to do. So all the credit in the world for what he deserves, but he doesn't deserve any more than a backup quarterback successfully going through the punches.

I dunno, I see your point about him currently, but keep in mind the guys 37years old, I wouldn't expect him to win too many foot races, especially when he was never a "running QB".

I think he can still lead a team, but has to have the proper team around him, still has a good arm and decent release, short stuff to get the D to cheat-up and then try and burn them deep, but yeah, I wouldn't expect him to scramble and out-run too many people.

Originally Posted by Supreme yeah Brad Johnson can't lead anybody anywhere in any big game like that Super Bowl he won

I'm pretty sure he was referring to today, not 2002 when he put up some of the best numbers of his career.

[VonErich Lives]

So, there's talk Jim Mora Jr. will get suspended by the team.

With like 1:20 left in OT and 4th and 2 on their own like 25, Mora punted.

He has said something like, he didn't know if a Win would mean more about their playoff chances then a tie at the time.

Well, after the game he goes to do his usually post-game interview on the radio and gets asked "why did you punt..." he takes off his headset and slams or throws it and then throws the mic almost hitting a female radio reporter (I think she was the sideline person) in the head and storms off.

I dunno, I think he flipped out (guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree there), but should the team really suspend him? that seems a bit much...

[The Outlaw]

He did a lot better than anyone thought he would (Johnson).

Like I said, Favre has made horrible decisions. I'm pretty sure noone's denying that, and I'm not sure what the whole "You guys can stop pretending" meant. He's the first to take blame for the losses and the first to admit he's making bad decisions. To say he is over the hill and can't play anymore is pretty outrageous though.

Again, Andrae Thurman, Noah Herron, David Martin, Robert Ferguson, Antonio Chatman, and Rod Gardner are his skill players. You have to have a team around you to be successful, pretty simple.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Vikings lost yesterday because they gave up 30 points to the Ravens.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Favre needs to hang them up though. Just becuase you have a horrible team around you doesn't mean you need to make bad decisions. Having a bad team around you means you will lose, but having a bad team around doesn't mean you need to lead the NFL in INTs. When a LB steps infront of a WR and takes it to the house, you can't blame that on Noah Herron, sorry.

People want to love Favre because hes been great for a lot of years but players get older and can't compair with themselves of before. I still think Favre would have a lot of INTs and shit if he was on another team, he always made bad decisions. He's labeled as a "Gun slinger" which basically means he throws the ball around, that worked for him before when he could still really sling it, but he's lost some of his skills due to age/injuries.

[Gonzo]

I think in Favre's case he is trying to do too much because of the lack of players around him. I'm not saying he doesn't make bad decisions, but look at his numbers from last year, you don't just drop off that much in one year enough to warrant retirement. His team has really been hampered by injuries and I think he tries to do too much.

Now, lets shift the discussion a little bit. Who do you all have as MVP, why? State your cases.

They have a poll on ESPN.com that Shaun Alexander is leading in. I generally agree with that, I'm not too sure how well Seattle's defense is or anything like that because I've only seen one game. Hasselback is a pretty good quarterback I think but I think without Alexander the Seahawks definitely would not be in their position.

What do you guys think about Tiki Barber though? I think he is in a similar situation as Alexander is in Seattle. Our defense picked it up in the middle of the year, so that helped the team. Manning has been ridiculously inconsistent all year and Tiki has more or less carried the team. I know it sounds homerish to say Tiki ought to be MVP, but what do you guys think?

[Team Sheep]

Jets home win tonight!!

[Team Sheep]

Is this the last night of ABC showing MNF then?

[Gonzo]

On ABC yeah. I think its going to ESPN. EPSN and ABC are all the same company now a days I think though.

[Team Sheep]

Oh right. Shouldn't affect the rights to show the games over here in the UK then. I'm watching it on a channel called five right now, presented by a Scottish boy. Sky's coverage is so much better.

[Gonzo]

I don't think it would. I've been hearing something about NBC having the Sunday Night games and something between either NBC or ESPN getting to choose which game it wants, between the MNF and SNF games? I don't know what the deal is with that though. Like, how that works out with tickets and fans and stuff?

[Mr. Monday Morning]

Originally Posted by Team Sheep Oh right. Shouldn't affect the rights to show the games over here in the UK then. I'm watching it on a channel called five right now, presented by a Scottish boy. Sky's coverage is so much better.

It won't. And please explain how Colin Murray is Scottish

[Y2Ant]

Originally Posted by Team Sheep Oh right. Shouldn't affect the rights to show the games over here in the UK then. I'm watching it on a channel called five right now, presented by a Scottish boy. Sky's coverage is so much better.

he's irish you nob

[Team Sheep]

Originally Posted by Y2Ant he's irish you nob

Whatever, he plays on his PSP during the games.

[Joey Slugs]

Originally Posted by Gonzo On ABC yeah. I think its going to ESPN. EPSN and ABC are all the same company now a days I think though.

MNF debuts next season on ESPN, correct. ESPN & ABC are owned by the same company... Disney.

Originally Posted by Gonzo I don't think it would. I've been hearing something about NBC having the Sunday Night games and something between either NBC or ESPN getting to choose which game it wants, between the MNF and SNF games? I don't know what the deal is with that though. Like, how that works out with tickets and fans and stuff?

SNF is making the shift to NBC & Madden/Costas (rumor) will have broadcast duties. ESPN & NBC will not be allowed to hand pick which games they show. The only people that can do that are the NFL schedule makers. (Do you think that MNF would choose to show Green Bay v Baltimore when San Diego and Indy played that same week?) It'll never happen.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Joey Slugs SNF is making the shift to NBC & Madden/Costas (rumor) will have broadcast duties. ESPN & NBC will not be allowed to hand pick which games they show. The only people that can do that are the NFL schedule makers. (Do you think that MNF would choose to show Green Bay v Baltimore when San Diego and Indy played that same week?) It'll never happen.

Wanna bet?

Either the NBC Sunday contract or the ESPN Monday contract or possible both, have agreements for the network with notice to request a different game.

I've read two different version for NBC, one is it's the league's descretion, the other is NBC can request a game switch for the last 7 weeks of the season, so a 1pm or 4pm game would move to NBC for "prime time sunday".

As for ESPN, If I recall correctly, ESPN gets to request a different game and they actually get to pick the game for the last 1/2 of the season w/ 30days notice. This means a sunday 1pm or 4pm can get moved to Mondaynight, however I think NBC gets a certain number of "proections" so if they happen to have the best game of the week already they won't lose it.

I'll look later and see if I can find the exact details, but those contracts (1 or both) had provisions for making sure that they wouldn't get

Green Bay v Baltimore when San Diego and Indy played that same week

[UmbrellaCorporation]

4th quarter at about 11 minutes, 28 - 14 Patriots.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Patriots dominated them, wasn't nearly as close as the score.

Ty Law ran back an INT, he wants back with the Patriots though. He didn't even celebrate and he was constantly helping people up and stuff. They even mentioned (the commentators) how he might come back and how he hasn't burned any bridges. I guess he realized making a ton of money is more fun when you are winning.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Vrabel is a sick fuck too, 2 TD catches

[BCWWF]

You don't understand what I am saying, and what it's like in Minnesota.

Brad Johnson came in and did a hell of a job winning what six straight games? For a backup quarterback, he is easily one of the top non-starters in the league this year. But there is a reason he didn't get any starting offers in the beginning of the year. The first tough opponent that the Vikes played with him (Pittsburgh) destroyed him, because he isn't a great quartback. He is consistantly average, and thats all he needed to be to win those games, but you can't win in the playoffs with him as your quarterback.

Now that looks like I am completely putting him down, but I don't mean to be. It's just that from his success, people in Minnesota have turned on Duante Culpepper. People want to trade Duante and let BJ start next year. That is just rediculous. Culpepper has some troubles fumbling, and he occasionally makes a poor decision passing, but he also has a great arm that threw for what, 40 some touchdowns last season. What is important though, he has the intangibles. He can scramble, he can get hit hard, and he can just make things happen.

So all the props to BJ for doing much more than he was expected to, but jesus christ, he isn't even close to Culpepper.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Originally Posted by BCWWF You don't understand what I am saying, and what it's like in Minnesota. Brad Johnson came in and did a hell of a job winning what six straight games? For a backup quarterback, he is easily one of the top non-starters in the league this year. But there is a reason he didn't get any starting offers in the beginning of the year. The first tough opponent that the Vikes played with him (Pittsburgh) destroyed him, because he isn't a great quartback. He is consistantly average, and thats all he needed to be to win those games, but you can't win in the playoffs with him as your quarterback. Now that looks like I am completely putting him down, but I don't mean to be. It's just that from his success, people in Minnesota have turned on Duante Culpepper. People want to trade Duante and let BJ start next year. That is just rediculous. Culpepper has some troubles fumbling, and he occasionally makes a poor decision passing, but he also has a great arm that threw for what, 40 some touchdowns last season. What is important though, he has the intangibles. He can scramble, he can get hit hard, and he can just make things happen. So all the props to BJ for doing much more than he was expected to, but jesus christ, he isn't even close to Culpepper.

Well Johnson is probably going to be the starter to start off next season, I highly doubt Culpepper will be ready to go by then.

[AlphaBean]

Give Culpepper K-Rob and an offensive coordinator and he'll dominate. Loney's play calls were horrendous compared to Scott Linehan's. Linehan actually gameplanned against defenses, and knew Pep's strengths/Weaknesses, as well as those of the entire team. Loney tried to make Pep buy time while his slow WRs tried getting separation on long posts, Z-outs and other complex routes, but the O-line didn't do a goddamn thing to help him. So when he was down 24-0 he would throw it long, it would get tipped and intercepted, and the Daunte-haters put it all on him -- not on the quality of opponent, or unpreparedness of his offense.

Brad did dump passes. He would do underhand/two-handed ducks for 2 yards, because he called his own plays. Daunte never did that, though he should have. I'll admit Pep is not the smartest quarterback, but physically, you tell him where to throw it and he'll do it. Randall Cunningham was the same way. He just needs a coordinator. And I think the Vikings should hire one immediately to start the off-season. While Pep is rehabbing, he can study the playbook and come into 2006-2007 ready to go.

[Y2Ant]

also, it's all about the Mike Carlson

[RP]

Culpepper > Brad Johnson all the time every time in history of time. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder Culpepper > Brad Johnson all the time every time in history of time. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

No question about it, in their prime, best against best Pep has the tools, but does that make him a better QB?

Quite frankly with his skills, Pep should be one of if not the best QB in the league hands down, he's big, fast, strong, quick release, tough to tackle, can out run DL and run over LB's (not just DB's).

But, why isn't he! Who do we blame? Denny Green had plenty of talant arount him on offense and he had some good years, but why don't we talk about him with Manning & Brady? We should, and some do, but most don't...

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives No question about it, in their prime, best against best Pep has the tools, but does that make him a better QB? Quite frankly with his skills, Pep should be one of if not the best QB in the league hands down, he's big, fast, strong, quick release, tough to tackle, can out run DL and run over LB's (not just DB's). But, why isn't he! Who do we blame? Denny Green had plenty of talant arount him on offense and he had some good years, but why don't we talk about him with Manning & Brady? We should, and some do, but most don't...

You must be taking the piss.

Last season he had a season parallel to Manning's. Better in some ways, worse in others. It'd be better but the running game was there.

The Vikings have been in flux -- no continuity. Continuity is the one thing the Colts have had. They are steady every season, and unfortunately, the Vikings and Colts have similar playoff records during Pep and Peyton's respective careers.

This year, new coordinator, and an overhaul on defense. Defenders don't come on until midseason after Pep is killed. Nobody knows what Pep could do with this team, and to be honest, maybe he would have lost some games Brad would have won. Because Brad played his own style, and Daunte just ran the plays called. He's only as good as his team and coaches. But when his team and his coaches are all doing well, he will outperform any Brady or Manning, because he has better physical tools. I think he just doesn't trust in his own decision-making yet. Either that, or he's just not smart enough.

As for Brady, well, he really hasn't had to win many games, has he? At least in the SuperBowl years. It was always "protect the ball" and "let the defense dominate." Now, if Pep had that, things might have been different. With a defense, he might already have a ring. That's why Brad has a ring. One ring. That's why Trent Dilfer has a ring. One ring. Because their defenses stood up for one year at their peak.

So to answer your question, who is to blame? Must someone be to blame? Maybe it just so happens that Pep is an amazing talent at Quarterback, but that just isn't enough to save this franchise. But do we say that Barry Sanders was not great?

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by AlphaBean You must be taking the piss. Last season he had a season parallel to Manning's. Better in some ways, worse in others. It'd be better but the running game was there.

I agree with last year, but he should be there every year, he has the "physical tools". Also, even last year with the great year, he doesn't seem to get the "Credit" It's true to some point, you're only as good as your team around you, but the "great qb's" find a way to win when they don't have the best team.

Originally Posted by AlphaBean The Vikings have been in flux -- no continuity. Continuity is the one thing the Colts have had. They are steady every season, and unfortunately, the Vikings and Colts have similar playoff records during Pep and Peyton's respective careers. This year, new coordinator, and an overhaul on defense. Defenders don't come on until midseason after Pep is killed. Nobody knows what Pep could do with this team, and to be honest, maybe he would have lost some games Brad would have won. Because Brad played his own style, and Daunte just ran the plays called. He's only as good as his team and coaches. But when his team and his coaches are all doing well, he will outperform any Brady or Manning, because he has better physical tools. I think he just doesn't trust in his own decision-making yet. Either that, or he's just not smart enough.

Ok, that's what I was asking, I don't watch him enough, but I agree, he has the tools to be the best QB in the league, Manning's arm, Vick's legs, LB/DL size...

Originally Posted by AlphaBean As for Brady, well, he really hasn't had to win many games, has he? At least in the SuperBowl years. It was always "protect the ball" and "let the defense dominate." Now, if Pep had that, things might have been different. With a defense, he might already have a ring. That's why Brad has a ring. One ring. That's why Trent Dilfer has a ring. One ring. Because their defenses stood up for one year at their peak.

I'll disagree with that, but you'd expect none the less from me, yes, the Pats have had good defenses (well, not this year) and yes they typically have had a decent running game, but they always seem to use the Pass to set-up the run, also if it wasn't for him making the "drive" in a few of those "big games" (playoffs, superbowls) he'd be short at least 2 rings. On the flip side, bledsoe doesn't come in and hit that TD to the back of the endzone on 2001 and Brady doesn't get a chance to win the SB against STL.

Originally Posted by AlphaBean So to answer your question, who is to blame? Must someone be to blame? Maybe it just so happens that Pep is an amazing talent at Quarterback, but that just isn't enough to save this franchise. But do we say that Barry Sanders was not great?

Valid point, but is it he can't "save the franchise" or the "franchise can't save him".

I dunno, I just feel like we should expect more from him, maybe he hasn't had the right coaching or system, who knows... I don't follow them close hence why I ask, I just look at this guys "tools" and feel he's a man among boys at that position.

[Joey Slugs]

Originally Posted by Rectal Pertruder Culpepper > Brad Johnson all the time every time in history of time. Anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

OVER RATED

[Joey Slugs]

From ESPN Insider Everyone knows the Chicago Bears have the best defense in football right now. But with QB Kyle Orton leading an anemic offense, few believed they could make a long playoff run. Now that QB Rex Grossman has assumed the starting role, the question is whether he gives them enough offense to be a playoff threat. I believe he does. With Orton at the helm, the Bears could count on their offense scoring somewhere between seven and 14 points per game. With Grossman, they can count on an extra touchdown, or 14-21 points per game. With a defense as good as theirs, the Bears feel they can win every game with that type of offensive production. While Grossman isn't Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, he is confident. And that confidence is infectious. The Bears might have been on the verge of a mutiny if Orton was left in at quarterback. In our meetings for "NFL Live," Mike Golic always talks about how divided the locker room was when he played for the Eagles in the late 1980s and early '90s. Their defense was awesome, but their offense couldn't do a thing. Confidence might be biggest difference between the two quarterbacks. Somewhere along the way this season, Orton became afraid to make mistakes. Thus, almost all of his throws became check-downs. Even when receivers were open, Orton wasn't confident they were open enough and threw the short pass instead. No one is happier about Grossman's taking over at quarterback than wide receiver Muhsin Muhammad, who was becoming more and more disgruntled with Orton's unwillingness to go vertical. On Grossman's first play against Green Bay, he threw a deep fade that was incomplete. That throw was a statement, both to the opposition and to his own team that things were going to change with the offense. Muhammad is one of the best possession receivers in football and, with Bernard Berrian as a speed burner, is finding more space to move the chains. The Bears like to line up Berrian and Muhammad on the same side, have Berrian run a deep pattern to clear out defenders and run Muhammad underneath over the middle in the vacated space. Unlike Orton, Grossman is willing to make that throw, and he trusts his arm to get it there and his receiver to come down with the catch. In terms of actual plays the Bears are running, they are still a simple offense with Grossman, but because he presents the threat of going deep, the scheme is more effective. The Bears are not asking Grossman to survey the entire field and make a lot of progression reads. What they are asking is that he trust where the play is supposed to go and not immediately check down. This passing game, or even the threat of it, will back the defense's safeties off, which will make life easier for the ball-control running game. Before, teams were playing eight- and even nine-man fronts, with both safeties in the box and single coverage on the outside. Now teams will have to respect the pass a little more and drop their safeties back in coverage more often. This will open up the running game a little more for Thomas Jones, who after seeing stacked fronts for so long will probably think he's in heaven if he sees only seven defenders playing the run. During the first eight games of the season, Jones averaged 20 carries per game and 4.5 yards per attempt. Over the next six games, as teams started crowding the line because they weren't threatened by Orton and the passing game, Jones' numbers fell to 3.8 yards per carry on 18 attempts per game. Against the Packers Sunday, with Grossman under center, Jones carried 25 times for 105 yards, his first 100-yard game since Week 7. Grossman's numbers weren't spectacular against Green Bay (11 of 23, 166 yards, one touchdown, one interception), but the throws he was making -- accurate and decisive, with good velocity -- were a clear indication that the Bears are better off with him at quarterback.

And another thing: New England WILL be the AFC champs this year & they will be playing either Chicago or Seattle.