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Old 02-23-2022, 07:29 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Mr. JL View Post
It is definitely not a good look for AEW to lose an "EVP" as pivotal as Cody Rhodes after just 3 years.

I honestly prefer most of Cody's work compared to Omega's and The Bucks.

I like selling and meaning to things. I find Cody's work much more believable and meaningful. I can totally see how his vision would clash with the Bucks and Omega's and ultimately, I guess Tony's too. Cody's is much more rooted in tradition.

I really enjoy AEW but fuck, when you look objectively at the product; it is definitely missing some key elements that would make it great. That is more selling and meaning.

I really like their faithful adherence to feuds and building storylines with payoffs but it drives me fucking insane to see some of the movesets within matches just being stretched beyond reproach. Some of the moves performed in the ring are fucking GO TO WAR KILL YOU Brutal for meaningless matches and then its forgotten, yet in a backstage moment a wrestler might bump into someone or say something really little and ITS THE END OF THE WORLD.

You see guys get spike piledriven into the floor, Canadian Destroyed off a cage and 450'd and tombstoned, dropped on their heads, kicked and kneed in the face x 18 but they fucking kick out; emphatically. Just some of the over the top moves overused and undersold. Its asinine.

I like it here and there but when every single match has a, "HOW THE FUCK DID THEY KICK OUT" moment it devalues everything. And some matches have multiple moments where the wrestlers look like they've been killed but they kick out. Then 17 more moves happen to them and they kickout. Then they show up the next day and wrestle the same way like they are A-OK!

They all went to the Jon Moxley school of selling
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Old 02-24-2022, 10:25 AM   #242
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The no-selling of moves, especially finishers, in the last few years of rasslin is super off-putting to me. I get that you have to "up the ante" or whatever but at some point your biggest move has to be enough to put a guy away, right?
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Old 02-24-2022, 10:26 AM   #243
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Like when Lesnar and whoever were just spamming finishers at WM two(?) years ago, that was dumb as fuck.

I can't remember who he faced but it was a 5-6 minute match of pretty much all F5 and whatever the other guy does. Terrible.
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Old 02-24-2022, 10:27 AM   #244
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Not exactly the same as the Bucks & others doing it on TV nearly every week with the destroyers and superkicks (remember when both of those moves were finishers?), but it's a similar problem.
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Old 02-24-2022, 10:53 AM   #245
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Definitely overdone. I guess I'm in the boat of "pins don't matter till a finisher is hit" - so at first it was like "oh shit!". Definitely overdone at this point tho, especially "superkicks".
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Old 02-24-2022, 10:57 AM   #246
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i prefer (the now lost to the ages) puro mentality that its not the last move that beats you but every move cumulatively so ANY move could beat you. every pin mattered.
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Old 02-24-2022, 11:04 AM   #247
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That would be great, honestly. It would make things more entertaining and "climactic".
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Old 02-24-2022, 11:04 AM   #248
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Kids wouldn't be patient enough for those matches, probably
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Old 02-24-2022, 11:54 AM   #249
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watch any puro from ajpw/njpw or noah prior to the mid 00s. it was just they they did wrestling. finishers werent magical moves that would slay the dragon they were techniques that these athletes had refined to have really good versions of. like a boxer with a mean left hook. it might knock you out. it might just hurt like hell.
Last edited by Destor; 02-24-2022 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 02-24-2022, 11:56 AM   #250
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I loved the way Hansen used his lariat in Japan.
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Old 02-24-2022, 12:03 PM   #251
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starting here - first one i found
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Old 02-24-2022, 12:48 PM   #252
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thats a great example actually. listen to how hot the crowd is at the falsies in the go home. kobashi isnt covering after hitting a string of finishers hes jus hitting significant moves and goes over with a rarer signature move. and its hype.
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Old 02-24-2022, 01:29 PM   #253
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Dude. This entire match was fantastic. The slowish kinda build was great. By the time they were slamming one another, they all were very impactful. All the way to the end, this was a great match.


The chops around the 7 min mark..... sounded like a fucking baseball bat
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Old 02-24-2022, 02:25 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
watch any puro from ajpw/njpw or noah prior to the mid 00s. it was just they they did wrestling. finishers werent magical moves that would slay the dragon they were techniques that these athletes had refined to have really good versions of. like a boxer with a mean left hook. it might knock you out. it might just hurt like hell.
Kobashi had the best method for finishers. A handful of moves that could end a match but required multiple attempts, and a one hit killer in the burning hammer, that he only busts out like once a year. Similarly, you had Misiwa and Emerald Frosion, though I think he busted it out more than Kobashi did the burning hammer.

Obviously you don't want everyone on your roster having a move like that, but if you have a handful of your top guys using that method, it's the way to go.
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Old 02-24-2022, 02:26 PM   #255
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Quote:
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i prefer (the now lost to the ages) puro mentality that its not the last move that beats you but every move cumulatively so ANY move could beat you. every pin mattered.
I love the classic puro finish of hitting a finisher, getting a 2.9 count, picking up the opponents limp body, hitting the finisher again more emphatically, and getting the 3.
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Old 02-24-2022, 02:47 PM   #256
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legit very good match. the old puro product really speaks to my tastes
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Old 02-24-2022, 02:47 PM   #257
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Quote:
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I love the classic puro finish of hitting a finisher, getting a 2.9 count, picking up the opponents limp body, hitting the finisher again more emphatically, and getting the 3.
FUCK YES. So visceral
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Old 02-24-2022, 03:49 PM   #258
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That always made sense to me. So your opponent kicks out of your best move? Are you going to grip your head with a shocked expression and lose all bearing of where you are? Or are you going to pick that nearly dead fucker up and hit him with another of your best shots?

It’s not no-selling the first one if it nearly kills you. And it actually gives you plenty of context for a rematch through a clean finish. Not just that he couldn’t beat me with one, but two damn-near fucked my neck, back, head, etc. up. Missed several big pays because that motherfucker needed to go that far.
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:06 PM   #259
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The lack of English commentary is my only barrier from watching more early/mid 90s AJPW
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:25 PM   #260
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Hypothetically: Who would make up your classic AJPW English commentary team?
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:28 PM   #261
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The only thing TK could announce that is “big for pro-wrestling” that would actually excite me is Jim Ross and Bryan Danielson providing commentary for AJPW’s library. But I don’t feel English commentary is necessary to enjoy it.
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:29 PM   #262
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i can get that to a degree but I just let the dance speak for itself. the audience and energy from the commentary sell the emotional impact as well.
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:29 PM   #263
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i love listening to japanese in any setting, so i don't mind the lack of english commentary. the emotion is still palpable. but it would be nice to have some context provided while i'm watching the match instead of having to find it for myself if i want it.
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:38 PM   #264
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They could easily “recondition” the audience with their approach to finishers. Danielson was doing this in AEW where he’d win matches in multiple ways. Just have a guy like Rollins occasionally win with the Top Rope Superplex/Falcon Arrow that they try to sell on commentary as death but I don’t think he’s ever won a match with. If he can win via Stomp/Pedigree/Frog Splash/Superplex-Falcon Arrow/Phoenix Spalsh it takes away from the crowd knowing they don’t need to react.
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:56 PM   #265
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the current paradigm is finishers finish matches so its only finishers that give the audience that near fall experience because anything less they know full well isnt it. this forces the hand in having guys kick out of finishers. they just have to or there is no drama.

the only recourse then must be to have guys go over without finishers. itll get over like a wet fart in church for the first few months but once the audience begins to adjust to the paradigm shift youd see more drama throughout the match. 10 fold. but as it is now...yea you gotta shit on your finish a bit just to hook the crowd. theyre too sophisticated to buy anything else as a falsie.

there's really no other option in the current meta.
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Old 02-24-2022, 04:59 PM   #266
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i suppose you could get a stable of finishers over for each talent to broaden the landscape but acts struggle to get one over so asking for 3 or so seems unreasonable. easier to just get "wrestling" over
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Old 02-25-2022, 10:25 AM   #267
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The only thing TK could announce that is “big for pro-wrestling” that would actually excite me is Jim Ross and Bryan Danielson providing commentary for AJPW’s library. But I don’t feel English commentary is necessary to enjoy it.
Probably would be best with Excalibur and Eddie Kingston tbh.
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Old 02-25-2022, 05:19 PM   #268
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Ian riccaboni and Wade Barret
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Old 02-28-2022, 12:25 PM   #269
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This could be a thought that doesn't age well but... All of the things I've read from guys like Omega or Danielson have lead to me to believe that Cody isn't signing a deal with WWE but possibly "doing something new". I've read that he wants to "start a new project" and I wonder what exactly that could be. Could he be inovled with the CYN 'movement", is Freddie Prince Junior also involved there?

A lot of marks are saying Cody or Tony has purchased ROH and Cody will be allowed to run it "his way". Obviously it's just a marks wank lotion but what if? Whatever it is... what if Cody isn't going to WWE? There are so many options from existing promotions to something new to something outside of wrestling to this all being some major work.
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Old 02-28-2022, 03:21 PM   #270
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There’s no point to it being a work, imo. Him doing something new? Possibly. If he’s got the capital to do something, I’d check it out. Cody’s vision is going to be closer to what I enjoy than The Bucks’ or Omega’s (I think). But i lt requires a lot of money, timing and luck.

I’ve accepted the WWE thing because the exposure is probably good for his other non-wrestling projects. The Rhodeses are bigger stars through WWE than they are through AEW.
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Old 02-28-2022, 03:56 PM   #271
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Still don't see it. Nothing about it would make sense EXCEPT if Cody worked out some kinda deal where he gets rights to "all the things" related to Dusty.
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Old 02-28-2022, 04:18 PM   #272
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I don’t really watch WWE programming but I saw a recap of Edge segment last week, seemed to me Cody answering that was pretty likely.
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Old 02-28-2022, 04:21 PM   #273
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I don’t really watch WWE programming but I saw a recap of Edge segment last week, seemed to me Cody answering that was pretty likely.
He target Cody sure, but also AJ and Austin Theory. The idea of Edge and AJ has been rumored for months, not saying it's 100% accurate or that it couldn't change. I still don't see an obvious "in" for The Codester to Wrestlemania this year.
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Old 02-28-2022, 04:21 PM   #274
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i can get that to a degree but I just let the dance speak for itself. the audience and energy from the commentary sell the emotional impact as well.
Was watching earlier. Japanese commentary is cool because--since I don't know wtf they're saying--it's more a sound effect that conveys mood. A different experience and a cool one. Don't necessarily need the words to tell the story. The tone does the trick.
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Old 02-28-2022, 05:42 PM   #275
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Still don't see it. Nothing about it would make sense EXCEPT if Cody worked out some kinda deal where he gets rights to "all the things" related to Dusty.
Between him and his wife, they have made several million dollars, most likely own a their nice house in the place they want to live, and can potentially make more money over the next 3 years before Cody turns 40.

Everything he does in WWE is going to be bigger. His reality show? Bigger. Him being on a game show? Bigger. His wife’s chances of getting her cooking show picked up? Bigger. His reach with charity? Bigger.

AEW can’t offer Cody the size of platform his ego needs. This is another reason they shouldn’t have sat happy on 850k viewers or whatever. At some point it closes doors.
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Old 02-28-2022, 05:43 PM   #276
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He also doesn't NEED any of that
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Old 03-05-2022, 03:39 PM   #277
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Old 03-05-2022, 03:44 PM   #278
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Wild.
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Old 03-05-2022, 03:44 PM   #279
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If Cody played himself than Lmaooo.
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Old 03-05-2022, 03:59 PM   #280
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He will be fine. I’m sure the door is always open at AEW. Take a year off and come back.
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