The official MLB offseason thread! - Page 7

**MoRcHeEbA** · 12-13-2004, 07:36 PM

I don't think Hinske is all that bad. Maybe I'm the only one

but I wouldn't mind them moving him to first.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-13-2004, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

LOL wtf. That is the dumbest trade ever.

Clearly it's not a talent for talent move, it was strictly to dump payroll.

Like how they put him on Waivors last year. Then sign Delgado to replace Mannys bat and play first and deal Millar and possible Manca(however you spell it).

As for Pedro.

If you look at the Mets history of big signings/trades, this should be a sign that Pedro is done, back from Bonilla to Mo Vaughn.

Anyway, can't blame Pedro, a gaurenteed 4th year, that's lot of money.

Will be interesting, free up a lot of money for the sox to play w/ but who'se left.

Theres talk of a Hudson deal, but the sox don't want to part w/ the prospects Oakland wants, plus they would prefer to deal him to the NL (I heard a Dodgers rumor).

Right now, it's Schilling, Wells, Wake, Arrojo. Not a horrible 4man, but Arroyo had 1 good year, and Schill and Wells are both up there in age.

The sox have a real good pitching prospect, and there's talk he may get a chance to start this year. Not sure if he's ready or being pushed.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-13-2004, 07:40 PM

Nah, I think Hinske is pretty good. He's young and I think he will really improve come 2006.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-13-2004, 07:42 PM

Yeah, I posted the Hudson to LA thing yesterday. Hudson and the A's are saying it's bullshit though. Kind of believe them. I would get rid of Zito before Hudson anyway.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-13-2004, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

Yeah, I posted the Hudson to LA thing yesterday. Hudson and the A's are saying it's bullshit though. Kind of believe them. I would get rid of Zito before Hudson anyway.

Couple of reasons to deal Hudson

1) He's the one of the 3 coming off a solid year and has the most value, where someone dealing for Zito right now would almost get a discount based on last year.

2) I could be wrong, but I think he's a FA at the end of the season.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-13-2004, 07:48 PM

Well, I kind of looking at it from the A's prospective. Hudson is top 3 best pitchers in the AL in my eyes. If I were the A's, I do everything to keep him. He's their guy. If the A's want to win, you keep Hudson and Mulder. But they need offense, like every year, so I can see why they might have to deal him.

And yeah, Zito's free next year. Mulder resigned last year right? Or was that Chavez?

**BCWWF** · 12-13-2004, 08:05 PM

Hey VEL, its spelled MIENTKIEWICZ

You don't deserve Mienkie if you can't even spell his name

**Evil Vito** · 12-13-2004, 08:15 PM

Initially, I was hating the idea of Pedro coming to the Mets.

But the more I think about it, I kinda like the idea. I mean, he still has a pretty bad attitude, but he should be great.

But DAMN that's a huge contract. Hopefully Rick Peterson can get Pedro over the 100 pitch crap.

**Loose Cannon** · 12-13-2004, 08:18 PM

Funny how Pedro goes to the other team I hate just as much as Boston

12-13-2004, 09:53 PM

hinske has no range so a move to first wouldn't be so bd. now if he could only get his average up i wouldn't hate him so much.

**John la Rock** · 12-13-2004, 11:36 PM

^ what he said

**PsychoSport** · 12-14-2004, 12:29 AM

Gotta love 1B's that make 5,000,000 and slug under .400

**Hardkore Kidd J** · 12-14-2004, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

Funny how Pedro goes to the other team I hate just as much as Boston

But seeing as how the fans at Fenway are going to treat him when Mets face Boston will be priceless.

**MrMeJW** · 12-14-2004, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardkore Kidd J

But seeing as how the fans at Fenway are going to treat him when Mets face Boston will be priceless.

Do you really think Pedro can take the Mets into the World Series?

**Hardkore Kidd J** · 12-14-2004, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMeJW

Do you really think Pedro can take the Mets into the World Series?

Did I say Boston would meet the Mets in the World Series? I was just saying imagine the crowd getting into Pedro whenever the Mets would play at Fenway.

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 12-14-2004, 01:41 AM

Well Mets playing in Fenway really isn't a common thing. Unless they play during interleague which I have never seen happen.

I don't know how they decide what National League teams they play tho, I am not sure if the same teams every year or what.

**MrMeJW** · 12-14-2004, 01:47 AM

I am pretty sure it's always the same teams because the yankees always play the mets. Either way, I don't ever recall the Mets playing at Fenway sans 1986 and I know for a fact they aren't playing each other this year.

**DaveWadding** · 12-14-2004, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMeJW

I am pretty sure it's always the same teams because the yankees always play the mets. Either way, I don't ever recall the Mets playing at Fenway sans 1986 and I know for a fact they aren't playing each other this year.

They rotate. Except for "natural rivals" i.e. Cubs/W.Sox, Yanks/Mets, Tribe/Reds, Halos/Dodgers, As/Giants etc.

**BCWWF** · 12-14-2004, 02:55 AM

Yeah, adding to what Wadding said...

Each year the divisons switch. So the Mets play in Fenway approximately one series every six years I think. The Yankee's play the Mets every year, every team has a "rival" like that. Cubs-White Sox, Cardinals-Royals, Dodgers-Angels, Twins-Brewers, Marlins-Devil Ray etc etc etc.

**DaveWadding** · 12-14-2004, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Yeah, adding to what Wadding said...

Each year the divisons switch. So the Mets play in Fenway approximately one series every six years I think. The Yankee's play the Mets every year, every team has a "rival" like that. Cubs-White Sox, Cardinals-Royals, Dodgers-Angels, Twins-Brewers, Marlins-Devil Ray etc etc etc.

Once every 3 years. There are only 3 divisions in each league.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveWadding

Once every 3 years. There are only 3 divisions in each league.

But I don't think they're home and home series.

So, it works out to once every six.

**Evil Vito** · 12-14-2004, 11:01 AM

I dunno, I think the divisions/teams they play in interleague may be random sometimes.

According to the Mets' website on an article I read a couple of weeks back, the series between the Mets and A's in the coming 2005 season will be the first time they have met since the 1973 World Series.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Vito 22

I dunno, I think the divisions/teams they play in interleague may be random sometimes.

According to the Mets' website on an article I read a couple of weeks back, the series between the Mets and A's in the coming 2005 season will be the first time they have met since the 1973 World Series.

I know that you play certain teams every year.

The "Natural Rivals" the Sox get the Braves every year.

After that, I thought it's a rotation, and I think the rotation going by div, till each div has played every team in the other Div, then they rotate.

**PsychoSport** · 12-14-2004, 02:41 PM

I don't think that's quite true....because last year, the Jays played the Padres, Giants, Dodgers, and D'Backs, but I'm quite certain that they didn't face the Rockies.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 02:42 PM

So, not so fast for Pedro.

Aperently the discussion right now is the physical. Pedro has told the Mets he doesn't want to take any MRI's during his physical, but would take a stress and strength test on his arm.

The report is Pedro has a 90% tear in his Labrum, which is a injury he had in 2001 (minor tear) that he chose to stengthen rather then surgery.

I'll lmfao is the Mets sign him and allow his to negotiate his physical...

**BCWWF** · 12-14-2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoSport

I don't think that's quite true....because last year, the Jays played the Padres, Giants, Dodgers, and D'Backs, but I'm quite certain that they didn't face the Rockies.

I am quite certain that they would have, probably just at Colorado or something

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 06:22 PM

This year the Sox play.

Braves, Reds, Pirates & Cubs.

The Braves, they play every year.

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 06:26 PM

So... Gammons today was talking about the possible Manny deal.

Aperently it fell apart and got ugly because the Mets GM got confused about what the Sox were trying to do.

The Sox wanted to drop salary and get prospects. The plan was to then move the Porspects for Hudson or Johnson, and the extra money to sign Delgado and Renteria.

The mets GM (Menaya?) kept coming back w/ counter offers that evend off the money, IE: Piazza.

Jason Stark reported, The sox asked Pedro what he wanted, he said 3yrs, the sox gave him 3, w/ a club option for 4th, the Mets then gave 4 and the sox pulled out.

Which is fine w/ me.

**MoRcHeEbA** · 12-14-2004, 06:27 PM

the Jays never played the rockies last year, they played Montreal and the other teams that psycho has said.

**MoRcHeEbA** · 12-14-2004, 06:28 PM

VEL you sound a little bitter that you're losing one of the best pitchers

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoRcHeEbA

VEL you sound a little bitter that you're losing one of the best pitchers

Not at all, I'd love to have him back, but he's not worth the contract the Mets are giving him and I've heard a lot of GM's saying that.

His recent years of injuries, the fact he falls apart after 100 pitches, giving him a gauranteed 4th year is a lot.

I thought a 3rd gaurantee was a stretch, but was ok w/ that for the return on the first two.

I do find it funny, he's arguing over the rules/terms of his physical w/ the Mets.

**BCWWF** · 12-14-2004, 08:06 PM

I dunno, I don't think the Red Sox will make the playoffs next year, but thats just me

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

I dunno, I don't think the Red Sox will make the playoffs next year, but thats just me

They'll take the WC, if the pull off a deal for Hudson they'll contend for the Division title.

There really not worse off then last year.

Bullpen is better w/ Mantei

Pedro gone, Wells in.

Schilling wont be ready opening day, but should be ready shortly after. (30days).

Lowe had a great post-season but a horrible regular season, and still might be back.

Tek is still a key, I think Mirabelli can replace his hitting and can catch Wake, but not sure he can call the games as well as Tek.

if the Sox don't get Reterira (rumor is now, STL gave their final offer, it was same years, but 1mil less per year the the sox) the Sox will probably get OC back.

Plus, I'm sure the sox aren't done, wouldn't be suprised to see Clement or another tier 2 pitcher. Which replaces what you got from Lowe.

Injuries of course change everything, I mean, if A-rod and Sheff go down for the year, I'd write off the Yanks, same way if Schill and Wells go down for the year, I'd write off the Sox.

Side note... Ortiz didn't play winter ball due to a sore shoulder, he hurt in the end of the season, but still had a monster post season... first time he hasn't played winterball... wonder how this might effect him...

**VonErich Lives** · 12-14-2004, 08:52 PM

Also, if Oakland deals Hudson (rumor now is Atlanta) they won't be as strong going after the WC.

**The Icon of Elisim** · 12-14-2004, 09:11 PM

Thats not fair to say since moving Hudson wouldn't be a salary dump, the whole point is to get back offense.

**YOUR Hero** · 12-14-2004, 09:16 PM

Toronto will get Clement, or so the rumour goes. Part of the new direction by dumping Delgado's salary.

Did they (Toronto) trade Hinske?

**BCWWF** · 12-14-2004, 11:01 PM

I dont know VEL, thats the same kind of thing that I would be writing if we were talking about the Twins, its just really optimistic. If they end up getting a guy like Hudson and then another top name free agent (like Renteria), but just as of right now they don't look entirely in great shape. They had so many free agents that its hard to say what they are going to eventually be, but realistically David Wells isn't that good anymore, Derek Lowe was Bostons whipping boy all last season, and the odds of getting Hudson aren't real high, considering how many teams will go after him.

I am not just saying that in the sense that Boston isn't as good as last season, I also say that because I assume there will be more competition for the Wild Card. The Angels should have a big season, if they are consistant they will probably finish second to the Yankees. The AL Central is probably going to be pretty poor again, a close race but unlikely a WC team. But you can't count out the A's, because they always have a contending squad, and then you never know what the Orioles are going to do. The AL East is probably the most competitive division in the AL now, which also works against them. Tampa Bay is no longer a pushover and Toronto and Baltimore are going to fight a little bit more this season.

So obviously its still all up in the air, but until Boston completes some good deals I am going to predict the A's take the wildcard.

**The Icon of Elisim** · 12-15-2004, 12:15 AM

Don't forget Texas

**John la Rock** · 12-15-2004, 01:47 AM

hopefully the Jays will get Matt Clement.

I'm actually liking this team for next year even without Delgado. What the Jays really need though is a solid closer

**VonErich Lives** · 12-15-2004, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Icon of Elisim

Thats not fair to say since moving Hudson wouldn't be a salary dump, the whole point is to get back offense.

No, it's also a salary move, to get back prospects or younger players that wont cost as much.

Oakland can't afford to keep all 3 pitchers.

12-13-2004, 07:36 PM	#241
MoRcHeEbA Dirty Sanchez Below Posts: 16,149	I don't think Hinske is all that bad. Maybe I'm the only one but I wouldn't mind them moving him to first.

12-13-2004, 07:40 PM	#243
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Nah, I think Hinske is pretty good. He's young and I think he will really improve come 2006.

12-13-2004, 07:42 PM	#244
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Yeah, I posted the Hudson to LA thing yesterday. Hudson and the A's are saying it's bullshit though. Kind of believe them. I would get rid of Zito before Hudson anyway.

12-13-2004, 07:48 PM	#246
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Well, I kind of looking at it from the A's prospective. Hudson is top 3 best pitchers in the AL in my eyes. If I were the A's, I do everything to keep him. He's their guy. If the A's want to win, you keep Hudson and Mulder. But they need offense, like every year, so I can see why they might have to deal him. And yeah, Zito's free next year. Mulder resigned last year right? Or was that Chavez?

12-13-2004, 08:05 PM	#247
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Hey VEL, its spelled MIENTKIEWICZ You don't deserve Mienkie if you can't even spell his name

12-13-2004, 08:15 PM	#248
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	Initially, I was hating the idea of Pedro coming to the Mets. But the more I think about it, I kinda like the idea. I mean, he still has a pretty bad attitude, but he should be great. But DAMN that's a huge contract. Hopefully Rick Peterson can get Pedro over the 100 pitch crap.

12-13-2004, 08:18 PM	#249
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Funny how Pedro goes to the other team I hate just as much as Boston

12-13-2004, 09:53 PM	#250
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	hinske has no range so a move to first wouldn't be so bd. now if he could only get his average up i wouldn't hate him so much.

12-13-2004, 11:36 PM	#251
John la Rock That's how I roll!!! Posts: 4,437	^ what he said

12-14-2004, 12:29 AM	#252
PsychoSport King of Awesome. Posts: 1,057	Gotta love 1B's that make 5,000,000 and slug under .400

12-14-2004, 01:41 AM	#256
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765	Well Mets playing in Fenway really isn't a common thing. Unless they play during interleague which I have never seen happen. I don't know how they decide what National League teams they play tho, I am not sure if the same teams every year or what.

12-14-2004, 01:47 AM	#257
MrMeJW Posts: 2,869	I am pretty sure it's always the same teams because the yankees always play the mets. Either way, I don't ever recall the Mets playing at Fenway sans 1986 and I know for a fact they aren't playing each other this year.

12-14-2004, 02:55 AM	#259
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Yeah, adding to what Wadding said... Each year the divisons switch. So the Mets play in Fenway approximately one series every six years I think. The Yankee's play the Mets every year, every team has a "rival" like that. Cubs-White Sox, Cardinals-Royals, Dodgers-Angels, Twins-Brewers, Marlins-Devil Ray etc etc etc.

12-14-2004, 11:01 AM	#262
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,383	I dunno, I think the divisions/teams they play in interleague may be random sometimes. According to the Mets' website on an article I read a couple of weeks back, the series between the Mets and A's in the coming 2005 season will be the first time they have met since the 1973 World Series.

12-14-2004, 02:41 PM	#264
PsychoSport King of Awesome. Posts: 1,057	I don't think that's quite true....because last year, the Jays played the Padres, Giants, Dodgers, and D'Backs, but I'm quite certain that they didn't face the Rockies.

12-14-2004, 02:42 PM	#265
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	So, not so fast for Pedro. Aperently the discussion right now is the physical. Pedro has told the Mets he doesn't want to take any MRI's during his physical, but would take a stress and strength test on his arm. The report is Pedro has a 90% tear in his Labrum, which is a injury he had in 2001 (minor tear) that he chose to stengthen rather then surgery. I'll lmfao is the Mets sign him and allow his to negotiate his physical...

12-14-2004, 06:22 PM	#267
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	This year the Sox play. Braves, Reds, Pirates & Cubs. The Braves, they play every year.

12-14-2004, 06:26 PM	#268
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	So... Gammons today was talking about the possible Manny deal. Aperently it fell apart and got ugly because the Mets GM got confused about what the Sox were trying to do. The Sox wanted to drop salary and get prospects. The plan was to then move the Porspects for Hudson or Johnson, and the extra money to sign Delgado and Renteria. The mets GM (Menaya?) kept coming back w/ counter offers that evend off the money, IE: Piazza. Jason Stark reported, The sox asked Pedro what he wanted, he said 3yrs, the sox gave him 3, w/ a club option for 4th, the Mets then gave 4 and the sox pulled out. Which is fine w/ me.

12-14-2004, 06:27 PM	#269
MoRcHeEbA Dirty Sanchez Below Posts: 16,149	the Jays never played the rockies last year, they played Montreal and the other teams that psycho has said.

12-14-2004, 06:28 PM	#270
MoRcHeEbA Dirty Sanchez Below Posts: 16,149	VEL you sound a little bitter that you're losing one of the best pitchers

12-14-2004, 08:06 PM	#272
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I dunno, I don't think the Red Sox will make the playoffs next year, but thats just me

12-14-2004, 08:52 PM	#274
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	Also, if Oakland deals Hudson (rumor now is Atlanta) they won't be as strong going after the WC.

12-14-2004, 09:11 PM	#275
The Icon of Elisim Elitist Member Posts: 15,438	Thats not fair to say since moving Hudson wouldn't be a salary dump, the whole point is to get back offense.

12-14-2004, 09:16 PM	#276
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	Toronto will get Clement, or so the rumour goes. Part of the new direction by dumping Delgado's salary. Did they (Toronto) trade Hinske?

12-14-2004, 11:01 PM	#277
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I dont know VEL, thats the same kind of thing that I would be writing if we were talking about the Twins, its just really optimistic. If they end up getting a guy like Hudson and then another top name free agent (like Renteria), but just as of right now they don't look entirely in great shape. They had so many free agents that its hard to say what they are going to eventually be, but realistically David Wells isn't that good anymore, Derek Lowe was Bostons whipping boy all last season, and the odds of getting Hudson aren't real high, considering how many teams will go after him. I am not just saying that in the sense that Boston isn't as good as last season, I also say that because I assume there will be more competition for the Wild Card. The Angels should have a big season, if they are consistant they will probably finish second to the Yankees. The AL Central is probably going to be pretty poor again, a close race but unlikely a WC team. But you can't count out the A's, because they always have a contending squad, and then you never know what the Orioles are going to do. The AL East is probably the most competitive division in the AL now, which also works against them. Tampa Bay is no longer a pushover and Toronto and Baltimore are going to fight a little bit more this season. So obviously its still all up in the air, but until Boston completes some good deals I am going to predict the A's take the wildcard.

12-15-2004, 12:15 AM	#278
The Icon of Elisim Elitist Member Posts: 15,438	Don't forget Texas

12-15-2004, 01:47 AM	#279
John la Rock That's how I roll!!! Posts: 4,437	hopefully the Jays will get Matt Clement. I'm actually liking this team for next year even without Delgado. What the Jays really need though is a solid closer