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Old 08-07-2021, 03:17 AM   #1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
I concur on Sapp
Supposedly FOX has been growing more upset with WWE in recent times. Not enough for them to suddenly pull the plug on their tv deal but something that could easily come back to haunt WWE when it comes time for the next round of tv deals.

Mix of the recent waves of talent releases baffling them in terms of some of the names gone, them losing interest in promoting non-SmackDown stuff on their network and properties, and them growing upset over WWE's deal with Peacock since they feel NBC has been benefiting way more than they have with their deals with WWE.

Both PWInsider and Observer have also recently mentioned chatter from their sources about the growing unrest at FOX over their WWE deal.

This was from this week's Newsletter about FOX:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer Newsletter
In the promotion of FOX’s Tubi streaming service when touting sports available, it has been very notable no mention of WWE. From the point of WWE selling its PPVs to Peacock it has been a major issue with FOX that their television show is promoting the key events being on Peacock, the streaming service of NBC
This was from a recent Q&A article on PWI over similar issues they've heard about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWI
Q - When they announced the deal in 2018, WWE personalities were all over FOX shows, they had the WWE Backstage show, there was all this synergy and now, there’s really nothing except for a podcast. I get the pandemic happened but really, it seems like it’s gone cold except for Smackdown replays in the middle of the night on FS1, 2, etc. Did I miss something?

A - No, you aren’t alone in noticing that. As Dave Scherer and I have discussed in recent weeks on The We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Name Show in our Elite section, there’s been talk in the FOX circles about some unhappiness with WWE. Some sources have pointed to the idea that Smackdown is a FOX property that FOX is paying basically around a billion dollars over five years for but that show ends up streaming on Peacock, an NBCUniversal property now that they have licensed the WWE Network. Beyond that, all the PPVs being built on Smackdown have storylines that culminate on Peacock as well, which effectively means a FOX show that FOX pays for is pushing people to a NBC Universal property. That’s probably at least part of the reason why we saw the Roman Reigns-Rey Mysterio Hell In A Cell bout shifted over to Smackdown. WWE is trying to serve two TV masters at the same time, so there's going to be a pull from each side.

As you mentioned, a lot of the ancillary programming disappeared and so did a lot of FOX’s promotion for WWE and Smackdown. I just checked and the last time FOX Sports issued a press release for something WWE related was this past March and previously, it was January. Certainly if FOX wanted WWE to produce something out of their virtual studio for them, you’d think WWE would jump right on that - that’s common sense. Certainly there’s a big difference from how FOX was pushing the property when they first signed their agreement, for sure. Part of that, however, was the pandemic. Whether they ramp up more, I don't know.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:38 PM   #2
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If they weren't a threat they wouldn't have been working overtime to get that Domino's story about in the media.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:41 PM   #3
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They had their splash, man. 1.4 million opposed down to 1.1 million unopposed. I remember your Death of TNA podcast where you hammered in “1.1” as a sleight to TNA. AEW have their 1.1 problem too, and it’s actual viewership.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:42 PM   #4
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If AEW were a threat, salaries wouldn’t have gone DOWN since AEW started.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:50 PM   #5
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R U taking about Sapp or Meltzer
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:52 PM   #6
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R U taking about Sapp or Meltzer
Meltzer.

Sapp actually seems to break stuff. I don’t really even know when he came on the scene though.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:52 PM   #7
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AEW is finally starting to do what they should have done from the start. Go after stars. The best possible outcome for them is that they’ve accidentally sent in a Trojan horse by being shitty for two years. WWE hasn’t bettered itself and now AEW might get lucky off some broken promises and guys being unhappy there.

WWE may have played themselves right there. MAYBE. It’s more likely you still get a show that is poorly booked on Wednesday nights and people ask Bryan why he retired and keep asking Punk when he gets back into wrestling.

WWE may go down, because they have the problem of being too big and too stretched to actually ever matter again. They generate all this content that they want to be sterile and static, but the problem there is that for them to remain in this privileged place, they have to generate content people want.

No one remembers that. No, not even AEW.

That’s why my big hope was that guys like Bryan, Punk, Joe and Brock would go elsewhere — to neither of these self-absorbed entities that are just going to do whatever they want to do regardless of whether or not it works.

Whatever, enjoy the death of wrestling.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:56 PM   #8
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Sapp has been the only source I’ve really paid attention to for at least a year, probably longer.
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Old 08-06-2021, 09:58 PM   #9
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The WWE’s best course of action would be to expand to the point that there is autonomy at each branch. It gets too big for Vince. Then he retires or whatever and Raw gets booked as its own thing, and SmackDown as its own thing. They can all be unique and good in their own ways as a genre.

The annoying thing about Vince is that he’s Coca-Cola Amatil, but he only makes Coke and Diet Coke. He hasn’t done Sprite, Fanta, bottled water, etc. When he tries to branch out, it’s something entirely different. Probably because he’s slightly embarrassed to be in wrestling.

AEW are this weird fizzy drink that has all these weird flavors and is this bizarre color but people want to pass it off as Pepsi because they hate Coke.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:03 PM   #10
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If I were the WWE, I’d take everyone over 40 off TV and have them either work house shows, be trainers or just release them. Hope that rises all tides a bit and forces you to create new stars that have a chance to connect as prime athletes. Let AEW take in the guys you don’t really want anymore, let them become a little bigger and then watch them erode due to poor booking. Get yourself good and then hope that has increased your cultural value for when those TV deals are up.

Right now feels like a race to the bottom. Wrestling needs TV, TV doesn’t need wrestling.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWI
PWInsider.com is told this is the complete list of talents released and no other releases were given this evening.

As Dave Scherer and I discussed on the We Don't Need No Name Show this week, there has been lots of talk internally of major changes for the NXT brand including a new logo, new lighting, a focus on younger talents and a different format to the TV shows. This housecleaning tonight appears to be part of those changes.
Basically NXT becoming what the rumored NXT EVOLVE branch was being planned to be had it been launched by now.

Ever since Dusty Rhodes died and Triple H took more direct control of it, NXT had been moving very hard away of what its original purpose was meant to be in WWE. Its why there's been a rift over the past few years between Triple H & his guys and Vince & his guys over NXT being a third brand or not and why a bridge was never established between developmental and main roster to prevent the constant screwing up of call-ups.

I wouldn't be surprised if NXT UK gets the purge treatment soon since its also been getting a bit fat in terms of roster size during the coronavirus pandemic.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Basically NXT becoming what the rumored NXT EVOLVE branch was being planned to be had it been launched by now.

Ever since Dusty Rhodes died and Triple H took more direct control of it, NXT had been moving very hard away of what its original purpose was meant to be in WWE. Its why there's been a rift over the past few years between Triple H & his guys and Vince & his guys over NXT being a third brand or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if NXT UK gets the purge treatment soon since its also been getting a bit fat in terms of roster size during the coronavirus pandemic.
There is no rift between whether or not NXT is a third brand or not, lol. What does that even mean? It’s a two-hour show they monetize by airing on USA to help offset the costs of having a factory that pumps out wrestlers to fill the 7, 8, 9 hours of content they pump out each week.

NXT became a bit of a vanity project of Triple H because his ego wants the wrestling world to see him as a great genius even though he wouldn’t have shared a ring with half the guys there, and he wants the business world to see him as heir apparent so he can get an executive job when they sell to Disney.

Yeah, NXT used to “try harder” to be something other than an alternative, but that was Triple H’s prerogative before it became monetized. It was an angle for the WWE Network, a bit of an audition and was an hour a week. Vince doesn’t take the same prerogative when he’s booking his show. It’s assembly line.

Should it be that way. I don’t think so, and the biggest concern I’ve got for a Triple H-led WWE is that he sees it that way too and NXT was just a lark for a few years, but we’ll wait and see with that.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:12 PM   #13
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Other things to consider:

-WWE not granting talent releases is really obscene on the surface of it. I can’t believe they got away with it for so long. The mental health issues and just forcing people to risk their bodies for a living WHEN THEY DON’T WANT TO is just insane. I’m not saying that most of even any of the talent HAVE asked for releases, but it seems right to get rid of anyone who wants to go. People always leave that out of this discussion because “WWE bad.”

-Turning over talent is a good thing for your show, your audience and talent themselves, although they often don’t look past it being a lost paycheck. It’s good for wrestling for their to be more talent out and about, and to be spreading what they know in creative ways if there isn’t a spot for them in the WWE.

-We never get the full scoop on some of these people. You would think they’ve all passed physicals if they’re working, but there are personality issues at play too.

-WWE doesn’t have to hire anybody or isn’t obligated to keep them employed. If they don’t want to use you in a talent-based role, that’s their prerogative.

That doesn’t mean the releases are all good ideas. There are some people that could, in an ideal world, be valuable. Mercedes Martinez and Bronson Reed jump out in that list. But Bobby Fish? I’m sure he’s a great guy and all, and I’m sure he’ll be able to get work and a stable income inside or outside wrestling, but is anybody even going to care if he goes back to New Japan. He’s probably better and wiser, but come on.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:18 PM   #14
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What the NXT cuts all have in common though, is that none of them really have the "WWE Look".

Leon Ruff: really small and scrawny
Mercedes Martinez: in her 40s and butch
Tyler Rust: tall but lanky without much muscle mass
Bronson Reed: comparatively short and stocky
Jake Atlas: has a gymnast's body (unsurprisingly, seeing as he was one)
Bobby Fish: also in his 40s and kinda doughy, plus now that O'Reilly is getting pushed as a singles guy he’s probably viewed as extraneous

There were reports that the new edict when signing talent was to focus on bodies - over 6-foot, 260+ lbs, etc, so maybe this is the higher ups clearing house of people they don't see a future in, which in and of itself is telling.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
What the NXT cuts all have in common though, is that none of them really have the "WWE Look".

Leon Ruff: really small and scrawny
Mercedes Martinez: in her 40s and butch
Tyler Rust: tall but lanky without much muscle mass
Bronson Reed: comparatively short and stocky
Jake Atlas: has a gymnast's body (unsurprisingly, seeing as he was one)
Bobby Fish: also in his 40s and kinda doughy, plus now that O'Reilly is getting pushed as a singles guy he’s probably viewed as extraneous

There were reports that the new edict when signing talent was to focus on bodies - over 6-foot, 260+ lbs, etc, so maybe this is the higher ups clearing house of people they don't see a future in, which in and of itself is telling.
So why haven’t they fired Roderick Strong and Adam Cole then? Who in NXT actually has a WWE body? Cezar Benoni and Tino Sabbatelli? They got cut too. AEW has scooped up a lot of bodies from NXT.

Talent get cut for a number of reasons. It can be a look, it can be what you have or haven’t produced, it can be attitude, it can just be time. It can be because you’re 6’8, 320lbs and did a cannonball onto your own head on PPV and you’re the drizzling shits.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:26 PM   #16
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NXT definitely needs a major overhaul. Developmental does as well. I hope it becomes less sterile in the future. I get why they expand overseas in a branding sense (there’s that bullshit word again). But I think they should have different styles of school within the continental United States.

Wrestlers learning something one way helps with the tedium.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:53 PM   #17
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AEW needs to pick up Mercedes immediately.
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:01 PM   #18
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AEW needs to pick up Mercedes immediately.
She’s one of the more puzzling. You’d think there would be a place for her somewhere. NXT as a player/coach. She’s one that I guess maybe she asked for it? Or maybe because she wasn’t going to be main roster they just thought “fuck it.” But she’s one that I wouldn’t have cut based on talent.
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:59 PM   #19
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For quite a few years now, I’ve thought that the WWE should reinstate WCW. Take everyone over 40 — everyone from Randy Orton to Shinsuke Nakamura. The “backstory” if you even need to get this far is that WCW has the funds to buy their WWE deals out and get them all to sign. The show is just wrestling, in an 18x18 ring, with cables, with its own aesthetic.

Do one Nitro a week, 12 PPVs a year. Throw all the 205 Live guys on there for a Cruiserweight Division. You don’t mention WWE, take shots at WWE. You just put on wrestling and that’s where the old guys go.

You’ve immediately got a roster of AJ Styles, Bobby Lashley, Edge, Sheamus, Cesaro, Shinsuke Nakamura, Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio, Shelton Benjamin and Kofi Kingston right there. Have no McMahon around any of it. Send over Bruce Prichard and Johnny Ace to run it or whatever. Hire Lance Storm to be an agent. Finlay, Billy Kidman, Booker T, Brian Kendrick or whatever.

That show’s going to get as many viewers as Raw. Now you’ve cleared up a whole bunch of roster space and are in the position where there is less clutter and more of a need to get guys up. You’ve still got Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Big E, Drew McIntyre, etc. Move up guys like Chad Gable, Montez Ford. Suddenly everything is less static.

If WCW is #1 and absolutely killing it. Cool, whatever. You still own it. If WWE makes a surge and a comeback with a focus on younger talent? Great. You’ve got three shows that are making giant bank, two “products” for people who might prefer one to the other, and then you’ve kept everyone employed, producing content, but not getting in the way of one another.

WCW would also be a great place to debut talent from developmental or that you want to have a look at, and then you bring them over to WWE TV when you are ready to make them a young star.

This COULD have been what Raw and SmackDown were/are, but the formula and presentation is too much the same and there just hasn’t been that effort made to separate them philosophically that I don’t even think people would buy it now.

Plus, I see value in WCW as an alternative branding, as well as reestablishing PPV as a revenue stream and using old trademarks and IP.

People are probably groaning at the idea, but don’t tell me that you wouldn’t watch a Starrcade with Brock Lesnar vs. Bobby Lashley, AJ Styles vs. Finn Balor, Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Randy Orton, Cesaro vs. Rey Mysterio, etc. It would be stonkers.

And that show probably allows them to enter the market with another $100 million per year for talent they already pay.

You don’t do the nWo. You don’t have Eric Bischoff and Jay Leno. You don’t do DQs at the end of every main event. But the essence is “WCW has the money to pluck all these world class names out of the WWE to end their careers for the one-time giant of professional wrestling.”

Just don’t go plastering “WWE Presents” on everything, or forcing your cringe-inducing aesthetics over everything, etc. *Expands* your business (which is the appealing thing about it to a boardroom), redistributes talent, uses it better by giving them a fresh environment (which is important for stars that have been around for a while), and allows for a more streamlined baseline WWE product that is hopefully more appealing than it is as this giant hodge podge.
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:03 PM   #20
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Anthony Henry (Asher Hale) may be a good get for AEW.
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:08 PM   #21
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I haven’t seen him wrestle. I didn’t even know he existed. He probably does it very well, but at 5’10, 180lbs, I think I’m just tired of seeing that wrestler.
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Old 08-07-2021, 12:52 AM   #22
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I haven’t seen him wrestle. I didn’t even know he existed. He probably does it very well, but at 5’10, 180lbs, I think I’m just tired of seeing that wrestler.
Fair enough. I say he'd be a good get for them because he fits that mold of what they look for.
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:15 PM   #23
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Can't believe it about Giant Zanjeer, protégé of The Great Khali.
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:19 PM   #24
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Jake Atlas and Ari Sterling (Alex Zayne) were "indie darlings" before they signed with WWE... could def see AEW picking them up, especially Atlas
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:20 PM   #25
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Damn @ Bronson Reed... he was getting Raw/SmackDown dark matches and possibly about to be called up, and now cut
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Old 08-06-2021, 11:21 PM   #26
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like 2 guys on the 205 Live roster now, wonder if the show will be gone very soon

Ikemen Jiro and Grayson Waller
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:32 AM   #27
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It’s very disheartening to see the number of people WWE has released over the past year. I know it’s just business but if I were a talent, I’d be very concerned about job security.
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:35 AM   #28
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:40 AM   #29
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:40 AM   #30
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I wonder if they want to revamp NXT to make it more like Monday Night RAW
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Old 08-07-2021, 11:54 AM   #31
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I didn't know FOX owned Tubi, interesting


Andrew Zarian of Mat Men Podcast reporting more releases to come in the near future
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Old 08-07-2021, 12:01 PM   #32
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I wonder if WWE will use the Fox drama to wiggle into a deal with NBC for Smackdown at the end of the current contract. If not NBC then perhaps back to USA. I highly doubt Tubi will be be a success. I think the name alone is a flop. It's been out for over a year and I've never known anyone who uses it or has heard of it.
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Old 08-08-2021, 10:59 AM   #33
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I wonder if WWE will use the Fox drama to wiggle into a deal with NBC for Smackdown at the end of the current contract. If not NBC then perhaps back to USA. I highly doubt Tubi will be be a success. I think the name alone is a flop. It's been out for over a year and I've never known anyone who uses it or has heard of it.
I'm sure they will. I've been thinking the exact same thing as soon as I found out that FOX is pissed about the whole Peacock thing.
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Old 08-08-2021, 12:28 PM   #34
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I'm sure they will. I've been thinking the exact same thing as soon as I found out that FOX is pissed about the whole Peacock thing.
If the long term goal of NBC/Universal is to purchase WWE in a UFC/ESPN type deal, which has been speculated as the reason for the Peacock deal, then they will absolutely need to outbid Fox for Smackdown.

In fact with the timing of the deals, if the intention is to purchase WWE once the Peacock deal expires in 2026, it would likely be announced in late 2025. If I remember correctly, the current TV deals expire in 2024. NBC would need to have Smackdown under contract to avoid a whole mess of issues. Fox will probably offer a better deal than they currently have just to drive up the price on NBC out of spite.

Bottom line, Vince gets richer and maybe he will finally retire.
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Old 08-07-2021, 12:14 PM   #35
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10 years ago

"Hey kid, it's a budget thing, best of luck in your future endeavors"
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Old 08-07-2021, 12:15 PM   #36
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Streaming isnt new, if Fox cared about streaming rights for Smackdown they should have included that in the contract.
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Old 08-07-2021, 12:37 PM   #37
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Yeah if anything Foxs people made a stupid deal. What did they think would happen when they basically decided to "share" a company with NBC? Did they think WWE would just fuck off and ignore their other, pre-existing contracts? Seems like it was destined to be a shitshow tbh.
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:00 PM   #38
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Just read that Pete Dunne is also in that same situation as Adam Cole in that his contract is also expiring soon and he hasn't resigned.
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Old 08-07-2021, 01:48 PM   #39
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🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
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Old 08-07-2021, 04:30 PM   #40
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Fans were taught not to invest in people in NXT because they would likely have their legs cut off on the main roster.

Fans now being taught not to invest in people on the main roster because, successful or not, they could be axed.
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