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Old 09-20-2016, 07:30 AM   #1
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Rollins is a face now, yeah? It seems a bit stupid to ask, but I'm not sure if he's actually done anything to confirm his disposition yet.

Also, did I read correctly that Kevin Owens lost a Cage Match to Roman Reigns?
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:29 AM   #2
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To Savio's point though, the WWE puts commercial breaks in their Kickoff matches. Aren't those designed to air on the WWE Network and YouTube? Why do you need a commercial break in those?
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:57 AM   #3
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I'm curious to see how Clash of Champions goes as a show:

* Nia Jax should destroy Alicia Fox and it should be fairly fun. They are a building a monster there, but I don't know where she goes next. The depth in the division means she's going to have to get in the ring with Bayley or Sasha very soon, and it'll be intriguing to see how they handle that.

* I hope they add a cruiserweight tag to the Kickoff. That could be a lot of fun.

* Brian Kendrick is a good first choice for TJ Perkins. I hope they give Kendrick a chance to talk and sell the match. Kota Ibushi ended his dreams of winning the CWC and then Perkins beat Ibushi. He sort of diluted Kendrick's legacy stakes there. It'll be a good chance to get the Legbar over when Kendrick, the grizzled veteran with nothing left to lose, taps out. I also hope they give Perkins a chance to talk because he's on point when he does and comes off as well-spoken.

* Jericho vs. Zayn will be incredible, I think. Jericho is the perfect asshole to emphasize Zayn's likable traits. You can buy Zayn beating Jericho too. I hope this isn't one and done and Jericho is invested in getting Zayn over.

* Sheamus vs. Cesaro is interesting. I'm sure they'll take things up a notch for the finale. I wonder if Cesaro has signed a new contract? This seemed designed for Cesaro to win in an attempt to try and push him again. I'd laugh if he wins and then says he's going to take his championship opportunity on SmackDown and jumps ship. It seems like a lot of work for these guys to go through to end up with a US Title shot, but I'd honestly be really cool with Roman Reigns vs. Cesaro as a program. If Sheamus wins, I imagine that the crowd will galvanize behind Cesaro some more, and maybe they'll sort of "YES! Movement" him, although obviously not as hot?

* I still find Big Luke a bit shit in the ring, but I won't be distraught if him and Anderson take the tag belts, but I won't be upset if New Day keep them either, because I'd honestly rather see them slightly heel it up for a program with Enzo & Cass than Gallows & Anderson go into one with them. I've got no clue where you put Gallows & Anderson, but they would make natural allies for Owens at this point, wouldn't they? They don't need the belts for that.

* I'm actually hoping Roman Reigns wins the US Title belt. No one from "The Bloodline" has ever held that title before, and Reigns with a mid-card run actually seems somewhat refreshing. My ideal scenario would be for him to work with Cesaro.

* The Women's Title becoming a Triple Threat actually makes sense, because you can now have Dana Brooke's interference be completely legal. I imagine she'll help Charlotte retain, with Banks and Bayley canceling each other out, to continue to string along the eventual Virgil/Alex Riley-esque break for glory. When Emma returns, it'll be interesting to see how she factors into the Charlotte/Dana relationship. Charlotte vs. Emma would actually be an intriguing little match-up while Dana faces the girl she hits with the belt or whatever at Clash and the other one deals with Nia. Keeping the women's division fresh is going to be harder than it is in NXT though, because you'll have the girls bumping into each other more often, and you don't get to send them away when they're on the main show.

* Rollins vs. Owens will be good from an in-ring perspective. Owens will be keeping the belt, but it's just a matter of how. Do Anderson & Gallows emerge as allies to him? Does Steph turn? Does Triple H simply stick himself into it again? I don't have a high interest in it, as I feel the whole Universal Title scene really...forced at the moment. Feels like a mid-card title match while Rusev vs. Reigns, at least in style, feels like the World Title bout. I think that's why I want Cesaro to go after the US Title instead of the Uni Title -- it's got the history and the match will be "heavier."

* Oh, and I do hope that Enzo & Cass vs. The Shining Stars gets added to the main card as an opener. I'd like Epico & Primo to get the chance to open some eyes. I don't agree with them getting these random pins on Enzo, but it's leading up to the outcome of Enzo pinning Epico, which will be a nice little moment and would be a fine way to kick off what should be a tremendous show from an in-ring perspective.

Pretty much everything has got something at stake, and the match that doesn't have that material reward (Jericho vs. Zayn) stands out for being a personal issue. This is a small gripe, but I hope that Michael Cole and Corey Graves call the show alone with Byron Saxton doing something else (ring announcing while JoJo interviews or something) because I think the two-man teams are better. I understand why they have them for the three-hour RAWs, but I think Cole and Graves can handle a PPV on their own. I know it will be presented exactly like a RAW, but Backlash was pretty much your usual PPV format with a SmackDown aesthetic, but Clash could feel different very easily.

Hell in a Cell could end up looking like:

* Kevin Owens (c) vs. Seth Rollins for the RAW World Title in Hell in a Cell
* Charlotte (c) vs. Sasha Banks for the Women's Title in Hell in a Cell
* Roman Reigns (c) vs. Cesaro for the US Title
* The New Day (c) vs. Enzo & Cass for the Tag Team Titles
* Bayley vs. Nia Jax vs. Dana Brooke in a Women's Title #1 Contender's Match
* Chris Jericho vs. Sami Zayn II
* TJ Perkins vs. Fuck, I hope Kota Ibushi
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:30 AM   #4
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* The Women's Title becoming a Triple Threat actually makes sense, because you can now have Dana Brooke's interference be completely legal. I imagine she'll help Charlotte retain, with Banks and Bayley canceling each other out, to continue to string along the eventual Virgil/Alex Riley-esque break for glory. When Emma returns, it'll be interesting to see how she factors into the Charlotte/Dana relationship. Charlotte vs. Emma would actually be an intriguing little match-up while Dana faces the girl she hits with the belt or whatever at Clash and the other one deals with Nia. Keeping the women's division fresh is going to be harder than it is in NXT though, because you'll have the girls bumping into each other more often, and you don't get to send them away when they're on the main show.
I think the Emma/Dana alliance is gonna be nixed, to be honest. I'd be pretty surprised if she doesn't go to SmackDown to be on the same show as Zack Ryder. It's possible that Vince has one of those "he doesn't deserve her dammit, let's split them up" moments which ultimately led to the whole Paige and Del Rio situation but it's tough to think they'd do that again given the controversy it's caused.

Or Emma can retire and spend her life with me. That would be OK, too.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:32 AM   #5
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I think the Emma/Dana alliance is gonna be nixed, to be honest. I'd be pretty surprised if she doesn't go to SmackDown to be on the same show as Zack Ryder. It's possible that Vince has one of those "he doesn't deserve her dammit, let's split them up" moments which ultimately led to the whole Paige and Del Rio situation but it's tough to think they'd do that again given the controversy it's caused.

Or Emma can retire and spend her life with me. That would be OK, too.
You're probably right in that it'll be nixed. Emma on SmackDown at least adds another woman who was a wrestler before she got to the WWE to their ranks. I'd like to see her vs. Becky Lynch to be honest.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:23 AM   #6
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Where is the Young vs Titus match?!?!
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:31 AM   #7
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Where is the Young vs Titus match?!?!
Playing on a loop in the 8th level of Hell.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:32 AM   #8
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Where is the Young vs Titus match?!?!
Rightfully shitcanned.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:32 AM   #9
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Most of what's happened on Raw has made sense despite me just not being particularly interested. It's more burnout on sitting through a 3 hour show every week than it is me not enjoying the show.

But it's shaping up to be a damn good PPV with a lot of fun matches. The PPVs have by and large delivered all year even through the periods where I wasn't watching the television or build up at all.
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:21 AM   #10
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I miss the Curb Stomp. I didn't like it in NXT, but they worked hard to put that move over.
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Old 09-20-2016, 12:35 PM   #11
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I miss the Curb Stomp. I didn't like it in NXT, but they worked hard to put that move over.
I think it was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:52 PM   #12
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I think it was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I don't get it though. If kids Tombstone each other, what is going to happen? Punching each other could potentially kill. Are they going to ban punching? What about the sledgehammer?

Or is it some sort of racial thing? I know there's the iconic Curb Stomp scene in American History X, but surely kicking someone in the back of the head hasn't been reserved for African-Americans over the course of history? Might be underestimating its significance though.
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:23 AM   #13
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I think the match should have ended no-contest instead of Roman defeating KO clean...seems like bad booking to make KO look weaker than Roman on go-home show of Owen's 1st title defense against the Demon Seth...
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:26 AM   #14
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I think the match should have ended no-contest instead of Roman defeating KO clean...seems like bad booking to make KO look weaker than Roman on go-home show of Owen's 1st title defense against the Demon Seth...
I'm wondering if they fucked the ending up.... wonder if they were supposed to fall near the same time.
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:36 AM   #15
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Rusev should have electrified the cage as Reigns was climbing it, shocking Reigns and causing him to fall and allowing Owens to pin him. Instant ratings. Well, not really, but I want to see Rusev, animated as he is, running around with that sort of equipment.

If it were the Attitude era, Lana would have seduced the referee into giving her the key, Rusev would have entered the match to beat up Reigns with Owens. Rollins would have come out, but can't get into the cage, so he climbs to the top of it and dives onto Rusev and Owens. A massive brawl ensues, and in the chaos, Owens escapes through the door and cluthes the Universal Title he just retained for dear life as Rusev eats a Superkick/Spear combination as Lana's top gets caught on the cage, ripping off as she stumbles around in a panic. When Rusev arrives at the PPV, he notices Lana smiling at something. He gets her password off Goldust (who has placed cameras around the place) and discovers that Seth Rollins has been sending her pictures of his penis, to which he would explain "IT'S HUUUUGE!" in comical fashion. He'd drop the phone in a fury and Goldust would come back into the frame and send the photos to himself for later.

Rusev would get so frustrated during his match with Roman Reigns, he'd hand Roman the US Title in exchange for his help beating up "Stupid Seth." Roman agrees to take the belt, but Spears Rusev anyway. "WE HAD A DEAL, AMERICAN!" Lana comes out during the Rollins/Owens match despite her not having any connection to it at all. Owens would Powerbomb her onto the ring apron and Rusev would hit the ring and beat up both men. Reigns would then come out and Spear Rusev again to end the show and the main event of Hell in a Cell would be a two-fall Hell in a Cell match for the US and Universal Titles, with Sexy Lana as the Special Guest Referee.
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Old 09-20-2016, 01:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Rusev should have electrified the cage as Reigns was climbing it, shocking Reigns and causing him to fall and allowing Owens to pin him. Instant ratings. Well, not really, but I want to see Rusev, animated as he is, running around with that sort of equipment.

If it were the Attitude era, Lana would have seduced the referee into giving her the key, Rusev would have entered the match to beat up Reigns with Owens. Rollins would have come out, but can't get into the cage, so he climbs to the top of it and dives onto Rusev and Owens. A massive brawl ensues, and in the chaos, Owens escapes through the door and cluthes the Universal Title he just retained for dear life as Rusev eats a Superkick/Spear combination as Lana's top gets caught on the cage, ripping off as she stumbles around in a panic. When Rusev arrives at the PPV, he notices Lana smiling at something. He gets her password off Goldust (who has placed cameras around the place) and discovers that Seth Rollins has been sending her pictures of his penis, to which he would explain "IT'S HUUUUGE!" in comical fashion. He'd drop the phone in a fury and Goldust would come back into the frame and send the photos to himself for later.

Rusev would get so frustrated during his match with Roman Reigns, he'd hand Roman the US Title in exchange for his help beating up "Stupid Seth." Roman agrees to take the belt, but Spears Rusev anyway. "WE HAD A DEAL, AMERICAN!" Lana comes out during the Rollins/Owens match despite her not having any connection to it at all. Owens would Powerbomb her onto the ring apron and Rusev would hit the ring and beat up both men. Reigns would then come out and Spear Rusev again to end the show and the main event of Hell in a Cell would be a two-fall Hell in a Cell match for the US and Universal Titles, with Sexy Lana as the Special Guest Referee.
I'm pretty sure Noid just outed himself as Vince Russo.
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Old 09-20-2016, 12:29 PM   #17
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Having Reigns win sucks but I don't think it was done in a burial kind of way. Owens, being the champion of the galaxy should have won though.
Rollins coming in for he save, are you kidding me?
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Old 09-20-2016, 02:37 PM   #18
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Big Cass went from wrestling for the Universal Title to jobbing to the Shining Stars.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:34 PM   #19
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I mean, with how short he was, he would have been a cruiserweight.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:34 PM   #20
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I turned Raw on and the same 4 Divas were on. I am tired of watching them already. There is literally no variety to that boring division. I turned it off after the second set of commercials and they were still on.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:54 PM   #21
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I'm with Cool King in the belt. I like the centerpiece and side plates but it's just to much purple. Would look cool on a traditional black belt. Also why not have TJP on Raw with the title?
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:45 PM   #22
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Didn't even get through the first hour. Nasty migraine, light and tv screens hurt.

Judging from what I'm reading, a lot of bullshit and they put the cruiserweights in at the last hour? I didn't miss much then.
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Old 09-20-2016, 06:55 PM   #23
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It was just a showcase of 4 "new" people to the Raw audience. Let them settle into the groove of singles matches, and the cruisers will be shit hot.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:01 PM   #24
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It was just a showcase of 4 "new" people to the Raw audience. Let them settle into the groove of singles matches, and the cruisers will be shit hot.
Do you think they'll get that way if they're just doing the spotty matches every week, or do you think they'll need proper storylines and development? Sincere question.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:07 PM   #25
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Do you think they'll get that way if they're just doing the spotty matches every week, or do you think they'll need proper storylines and development? Sincere question.
Storylines and development would be nice, but it may be hard to showcase a bunch of different talent in the division if they are only given one segment a week. I don't feel like a lot of the WCW cruiserweight matches had too much behind them outside of the title picture, and even that was mostly just based on wins and losses. I don't think that the goal here is for compelling storytelling as much as it is a special attraction. Regardless, we should at least get a good to great match out of it each week.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:00 PM   #26
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I actually really like the Cruiserweight Title. Something about the octagon shape is a bit too symmetrical, but the general design suits it, I think. Normally I don't like the colored belts they do, but the scheme coming from the CWC makes sense and actually gives it some history. I think it being different actually makes sense too, because the whole thing is that their style is meant to be different. There's something aesthetically okay with the cruiserweights fighting over a "World Title" that chooses silver instead of gold and purple instead of black.

That same thing bothers me with the Universal Title though. The Uni Title is supposed to be a World Title, so it should look like a World Title. Not look like the other World Title, but like its own World Title. I think that is where you should stay traditional with the black strap and gold plates.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:05 PM   #27
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I think Kendrick is a good choice to be TJ Perkins' first challenger. They never fought in the CWC, they both wrestled Kota Ibushi, Kendrick's the old, steady hand. I do worry that when you see the flippy shit every week, eventually no one will care, and that these multi-man matches eventually blend together and no one gets over because everybody beats everybody.

I think the overall idea might be just "send them out as filler because they will keep the kids with ADHD because they're moving fast and shit" to simply fill a quarter-hour. I think they're functional like that, but I do think it's a novelty that could wear off if they don't take their time to really protect and hone some legitimately personalities to sort of sign-post the division. TJ Perkins is obviously one, and I hope that Gran Metalik is another, but he just lost.

Kota Ibushi is in such a good position, because he gets to sit back, wait and see if these guys get over and are booked decently, and then come in later once the dust has settled and basically be the biggest attraction in there. Ricochet also has that advantage, provided that he still wants to sign with WWE down the line.
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Old 09-21-2016, 04:19 AM   #28
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Kota Ibushi is in such a good position, because he gets to sit back, wait and see if these guys get over and are booked decently, and then come in later once the dust has settled and basically be the biggest attraction in there. Ricochet also has that advantage, provided that he still wants to sign with WWE down the line.
Ibushi apparently doesn't want to. He doesn't want to be tied down anywhere so he can do whatever he wants and he quit NJPW because of the schedule. With WWE's being even worse, I don't think he'll ever sign full time.
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:16 AM   #29
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Do you think they'll get that way if they're just doing the spotty matches every week, or do you think they'll need proper storylines and development? Sincere question.
This was one of the questions I asked myself; I prefer storyline-driven wrestling where you're given a reason to care about one guy over the other, but, having watched the CWC final with my wife (a casual fan, I suppose) she was impressed, so maybe there is merit in just sending them out to wow the crowd.

The pitfall of that is that the style of the guys at the top of the card is very cruiserweight-ish so what sets the CW Division apart?

Maybe a more sports-like presentation, with rankings or a league based on round robin style match ups (3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 0 for losing) where you can do short promos during intros to allow the guys to talk about what motivates them going into the match (whether they've been on a losing streak, or are desperate to gain "points" or move up the rankings, you can have the guys talk about how the previous match with the guy their facing - presuming you're having everybody face off twice). Maybe a small tweak to the presentation by calling it the Cruiserweight League? You could have the guy(s) finishing bottom of the League get "demoted" (to NXT or snapped up by SDL?) and some new guys bought in every 6 months or so?
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Ibushi apparently doesn't want to. He doesn't want to be tied down anywhere so he can do whatever he wants and he quit NJPW because of the schedule. With WWE's being even worse, I don't think he'll ever sign full time.
Has he left NJPW? I was imaging a WWE Cruiserweight Champion vs. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion match at WM.
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:48 AM   #30
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Has he left NJPW? I was imaging a WWE Cruiserweight Champion vs. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion match at WM.
He's left his full time deal, but I bet he'll still be used. He's too damn good for him not to work on occasion here and there and I'll bet he has a match on the pre-WM NXT even.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:37 AM   #31
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This was one of the questions I asked myself; I prefer storyline-driven wrestling where you're given a reason to care about one guy over the other, but, having watched the CWC final with my wife (a casual fan, I suppose) she was impressed, so maybe there is merit in just sending them out to wow the crowd.

The pitfall of that is that the style of the guys at the top of the card is very cruiserweight-ish so what sets the CW Division apart?

Maybe a more sports-like presentation, with rankings or a league based on round robin style match ups (3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw, 0 for losing) where you can do short promos during intros to allow the guys to talk about what motivates them going into the match (whether they've been on a losing streak, or are desperate to gain "points" or move up the rankings, you can have the guys talk about how the previous match with the guy their facing - presuming you're having everybody face off twice). Maybe a small tweak to the presentation by calling it the Cruiserweight League? You could have the guy(s) finishing bottom of the League get "demoted" (to NXT or snapped up by SDL?) and some new guys bought in every 6 months or so?
Cruiserweights being all over the roster is a weird thing to separate from this division.

The thing about the CWC is that it kind of was a story in and of itself. The tournament itself introduced us to all these personalities, and we, and they, all knew they would be cut down until there was only one left. By the time you get to the end of it, you have the grandeur of these men having at least won a series of matches to get to where they are. Build is an important part of wrestling, and you don't always need to be along for the entire ride to sense when something is special.

The crowd, the commentators, the guys themselves -- they were all part of this build; all part of this story. The goal of the final four men was all the same, but their motivations were very different -- and that is where the drama came from. Gran Metalik was representing lucha libra; ZSJ wanted to prove that he is the technical prodigy everybody says he is; Kota Ibushi was the somewhat arrogant sure-thing; TJ Perkins was the upset kid that had been homeless before and didn't want to go back.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:07 PM   #32
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Oddly enough, if you make the cruiserweights too much of stars, you're going to have to start mixing them in with the rest of the roster, and things start to get hairy.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:35 PM   #33
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Oddly enough, if you make the cruiserweights too much of stars, you're going to have to start mixing them in with the rest of the roster, and things start to get hairy.
Depends on how the WWE handles that issue. Needs to be better than the last time they had a Cruiser division and also not follow the same mistakes WCW did when they were around.

Best case is the division being used as a launching pad for the big stars of the division to move on to potential greater things. Sort of like what the WWE did with Rey Mysterio except with more guys benefiting.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:09 PM   #34
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Then again, the CWC only showcased two matches a week and made me care about a lot of people along the way. I suppose it can be done.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:10 PM   #35
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Ugh, don't start me on that. Finn Balor, 190lbs, Heavyweight Division; Cedric Alexander, 205lbs, Cruiserweight Division. So obviously Finn Balor is pound-for-pound way better than Alexander, right? I don't get it.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:14 PM   #36
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Ugh, don't start me on that. Finn Balor, 190lbs, Heavyweight Division; Cedric Alexander, 205lbs, Cruiserweight Division. So obviously Finn Balor is pound-for-pound way better than Alexander, right? I don't get it.
Yeah, that is kinda bizarre. Also, how much does Enzo Amore weigh? Kayfabe-wise, they should explain that competitors have a choice of which division to compete in...or something. I dunno. Anything to help it make sense, I suppose. I'm gonna try not to think about it too hard, though.
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Old 09-20-2016, 07:21 PM   #37
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I looked this up the other day. His Wikipedia bills him as...200lbs, which is heavier than the dude they just put the World Title. Geez. He seems smaller. Probably because they put him next to Cass all the time.
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Old 09-20-2016, 11:39 PM   #38
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Universal Championship isn't really a heavyweight title though. Has it nowhere on the title and is never called one. More of a openweight championship I guess.
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Old 09-20-2016, 11:45 PM   #39
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So why wasn't the top crusierweight (the champ) featured in a match or at all?
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:08 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
So why wasn't the top crusierweight (the champ) featured in a match or at all?
PPV attraction, I reckon.

Not really, but he comes with a built in rub. He'll defend successfully at the PPV, I presume. Final boss type shit.
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