NXT TakeOver: WarGames (2018)

[Destor]

"Sanctity" as if thats even the issue

[Loose Cannon]

Wasn't a big fan of that War Games match either. I'm not into the unrealistic spots. it reminded me of the TNA Lockdown stuff with guys doing crazy flips and whatever off the cage. it's a cool "OHHHHHHHHHHH" spot for the crowd, but it just doesn't make much sense to me

[Lock Jaw]

Just watched this show instead of watching Survivor Series since I missed it yesterday....

My thoughts:

- From what I have seen on NXT and here, I hate everything about Matt Riddle with a passion and wish he would go away never to be seen again.

- Shayna vs Kairi was probably their worst bout. It wasn't terrible, but it was way too short for a 2/3 falls match, and full of too much shenanigans. Plus I'm pretty sure Kairi had her shoulder up for the final pin, and the camera was right there to see it, and they showed it on the replay again.

- Gargano vs. Black was a great match. I'm not sold on this idea of turning Gargano into a bad guy. I would like to see a "road to redemption" story with him as his wife or whoever makes him realize that Ciampa has got to his head and now he's just like him.... so Johnny tries to make amends and do better, and faces Ciampa and wins the title Wrestlemania weekend.

- Velveteen Dream vs. Ciampa was also great. Really surprised at how Velveteen Dream, dude from Tough Enough, suddenly became so good. He has "it". Too bad he is stuck with a terrible terrible name and will go nowhere on the main roster as long as he has that name. Not that he would go anywhere even if he had a better name.

- War Games was a fun match, but not as good as last year's. Not much else to say on this one.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Lock Jaw Just watched this show instead of watching Survivor Series since I missed it yesterday.... My thoughts: - From what I have seen on NXT and here, I hate everything about Matt Riddle with a passion and wish he would go away never to be seen again. - Velveteen Dream vs. Ciampa was also great. Really surprised at how Velveteen Dream, dude from Tough Enough, suddenly became so good. He has "it". Too bad he is stuck with a terrible terrible name and will go nowhere on the main roster as long as he has that name. Not that he would go anywhere even if he had a better name. .

On Riddle: I can see how people won't like it... but he reminds me of a new age Rob Van Dam. He's going to have to start wearing somesort of footwear in the ring, though. Rusev had to. So did Asuka.

On Dream: Patrick Clark has come a long, long way. There is nothing "sudden" about it. He used to suck charisma out of the arena, was just another random nobody, and his in-ring was nothing to write home about. This guy is one of those perfect storms of hard work and coming into a gimmick that clicks. Sadly, he has worked so hard for so long for a push that will likely never come... or would have come years ago when he was green as grass and twice as bland simply because Vince saw some new tall black guy he could push for about two months and see if it became an instant success.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Splaya Sorry dude I agree with Dave. Watch the show and you will see it was great. But then you don’t want to watch the show, read results that some fan boy who wishes the attitude Era was still around and then you are like “eh show sounds whatever personally”. “I’ve been down on WWE recently and that’s filtered into NXT”. As soon as I read that I knew you were going to trash it

But the thing is I don't want to watch the show as much as others. It's their job to get me hyped. I have gotten hyped for Takeovers in the past. I used to be an NXT "fanboy." I used to get hyped to see what Tyson fuckin' Kidd would do every week, lol.

Somewhere during the Finn Balor reign they lost me. Something there just became...blase. Like, I know the cycles now. Maybe I miss guys really reinventing themselves down there, or maybe you can just only be exposed to the same patterns for so long. But old-school wrestling used to keep people hooked, so I dunno.

To me, Dakota Kai is just the new Bayley. And when she goes up to the main roster...she'll be the new Bayley. Johnny Gargano was doing Sami Zayn. Now he's heel Sami Zayn. It feels very revolving door to me. Some guys will go up, new guys will come in, and they will do the exact same stories.

The "action" is well-executed on the Takeover shows I watch, but sometimes the psychology is really lacking (Gargano and Ciampa fucking sucked on this point). I'm a guy that's grown to really care about psychology, and as a result I find it hard to get excited for these shows. I'm not saying it sucked. I'm saying that even hearing about what happened, I just feel like...well, that's NXT for ya.

And it's not from "guys who wish the Attitude era was still around." These people reviewed the show very highly. But they're also the sort of people who can watch EVOLVE.

Originally Posted by The Midnight Gertner Like what a fucking joke. Why would they just stand there like a bunch of dummies. So stupid.

Exactly. I don't think people get what a turn off these spots are to people. Not to wrestling fans in the bubble, but people who try to give this a go and see it as fucking pantomime play-fighting. If you want to get hit in a fight, you're doing it wrong.

Originally Posted by DaveWadding Watch the show, then you're allowed to have an opinion. Not "I read the results, here's my opinion based on my imagination of what happened."

Why can't someone have an opinion about the buzz around something? Do you need to see a film to give an impression of the trailer or the genre? I'm not saying "Hey guys, I didn't see this show but it sucked." I'm saying it doesn't sound like the sort of thing that gets me interested anymore. Fucking read what I actually said before you tell someone to fuck off because they don't like the shit you like.

"Hey dude, hitting yourself in the nuts with a hammer feels really good."
"Doesn't seem like the sort of thing I'd try. I like using a hammer to break my walnuts, but I'm not sure I want to use it on my testicles."
"Fuck off! Try it before you have an opinion!"

No. It doesn't entice me. Brock vs. Bryan did. I watched that instead. I can't talk about what happened on the show, but I can talk about how impressions of what was reported makes me feel and whether or not it suckers me in or not. It doesn't. That's not my obligation, homie.

Originally Posted by Slik Eh, it's about the spectacle of the move. Like w/ superhero films, wrestling requires a suspension of disbelief. One of those things many older fans seem to have a hard time accepting. It can't all be bearhugs and headlocks in 2018. This type of move will look fantastic to someone channel surfing who spies SDLive on FOX in the future. It's something you don't see in the NFL, UFC or Baseball. It's unique and good branding, I hope to see more things like it in WWE.

But spectacle of the moves is kind of bullshit from a psychology standpoint.

I think wrestling has always required a suspension of disbelief, but now guys kind of mock the suspension of disbelief. They do stuff that you can't possibly believe, outside the laws of physics, and we're supposed to clap and applaud the "performance." What is the point of performing a fake fight? Like, why not just watch gymnastics? They actually do it better and don't insult your intelligence while you do it.

The headlocks and bear hugs point is a bit of a straw-man, isn't it? Like, I don't think anyone says that. I think they just want realistic shit that people can, as you say, actually suspend their disbelief for. God, I get so tired of hearing that saying. It's not your fault, but people use it and don't really appreciate what suspension means.

Originally Posted by Fignuts Sorry bruh. Dudes fake punching for half an hour doesn’t sell in 2018

That's because the dudes today can't really fake punch well, haha. What's selling today? Doesn't NXT run at a deficit? Do they actually sell out these Takeover shows? I know they didn't sell out last year, wherever they were. I don't think people really know what sells today, but it's easier to just shit on the stuff that went before so you feel good about what you're doing.

Originally Posted by The Midnight Gertner If you're not gonna bleed then don't do the match

Bingo. Isn't this called "booking yourself into a corner?" Like, if you have two people who don't know how to climb a ladder, don't do a Ladder Match. If you can't have blood on TV, don't do a First Blood match. If you can't afford to beat either of your top guys, don't have them wrestle each other. It's pretty common sense to me, yet they end up in these situations and people are like "Well, what are they supposed to do?" Anything else. Literally anything else.

Originally Posted by Fignuts Dunno what to tell you. The sanctity of classic war games isn’t so important to me that I’d rather see nothing, over what we got last night. Classic War Games is great and it’s there whenever I want to watch it. I don’t mind them doing something else with it even if it uses the same name. I just sat back and enjoyed the creativity on display. War Raiders and Pete Dunne in particular were a lot of fun to watch.

I'm not even a big fan of classic War Games matches. I appreciate them, but they've just never been my preferred thing. It's not about sanctity. That's another false argument in this sort of discussion. At least from the perspective that I think guys on here are coming from, akin to the "old-school fans just want headlocks and bear hugs." It's easy to think of that as ridiculous and throw out the salient points in their argument.

I'm not a traditionalist in any area of my life anymore. I used to be, because of OCPD, haha. I liked things to follow patterns. I've learnt that those patterns can be arbitrary. As Doug Stanhope says, "tradition is dead people's luggage -- quit carrying it." Make no mistake about it, though, this is being done for tradition and to bite in on a name with cache somewhere, although I can't imagine genuine fans of the match being that into these ones.

The point is that the psychology is all wrong. I don't care if they're not going to do the same rules. I don't mind a pin. I don't mind there being no roof and an escape being a forfeit. That's seriously whatever with me. It's just having a good fucking match that takes the concept of what a War Games match is -- a bunch of dudes fighting inside a steel cage -- and them holding hands and supporting each other for contrived spots.

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Wasn't a big fan of that War Games match either. I'm not into the unrealistic spots. it reminded me of the TNA Lockdown stuff with guys doing crazy flips and whatever off the cage. it's a cool "OHHHHHHHHHHH" spot for the crowd, but it just doesn't make much sense to me

This is very succinctly put.