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Old 10-09-2017, 08:04 PM   #37081
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Mustafa Ali and Ariya Daivari might be kept around for representation. They seem to like Noam. I dunno, I basically agree with your list. I could see Rich Swann, Tozawa and/or Alexander being cut though.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:30 PM   #37082
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I mean I don't dislike any of them or particularly want to see any of them let go, but realistically there isn't enough room for them all on the main roster without a cruiserweight division in place...and NXT is fairly crowded as is.

The good news is the guys who signed will be able to make a fair amount of money on the indies. It never hurts to be able to add "Former WWE Superstar" to your billing.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:48 PM   #37083
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It's like...yeah, you don't want anyone to lose their job. But at the same time, this is a business and the more guys you have saturating the main roster as just bodies, the more diluted the pot is for everybody.

One of the things that really startled me about the Attitude era WWF (again, shout-out to the SCG Radio guys who do an amazing job with their podcast), was just how few stars were there. It was literally just Austin for a while. And you had Vince, and Mankind got hot, and Undertaker was a good auxiliary player. Kane was functional. But the real "star" was Austin. That was it. Then The Rock came along and he started being a star too.

But it was Austin and Rock. I don't know why it took me so long to click onto that. I had this idea that...I don't even know what I thought. But anyway, those guys made everyone else more over because they were stars. Like, there's no real disputing that more people watched Crash Holly on television than Kevin Owens.

So, I guess what I am arguing for is a "trickle-down" effect in wrestling. That's the bright side to downsizing a roster and getting some focus back. Because you'd need to do that for wrestling to get hot again. You need that star -- that Hogan, Rock or Austin. No one else really matters. It's good to have solid hands, good promos, fun acts, etc. But outside that star everybody is expendable.

So, while I would feel sorry for guys in the immediate sense -- selfishly I want wrestling to be good again. And I think that most wrestlers would like it that way too. And we're so focused on "jobs for the boys" sometimes that I don't think we really appreciate how much more money everybody would be making if wrestling were hot.

And, at the end of the day, if you're the sort of talent that is only around because there are five shows a week with three unique rosters, then how likely is it that you are that star? How valuable is your work, really? That's why when people say "the brand split offers an opportunity to more stars," I kind of groan. Because if you're only good enough to be there to fill hour four or five, then maybe it's because you're not quite good enough to fill hours 1 and 2. And those are the hours I really give a shit about, because they are going to engage me as a fan.

I feel like an asshole saying it, but there are actually benefits for the talent too. It freshens them up. They can go and learn new tricks. They can develop on their own, without scripting, without having all their matches planned out. Time away has obviously helped many acts. It would be a bit nicer if there were a real alternative product though. Could you just imagine how much better used guys like Dolph Ziggler and Cesaro would have been by now if they had left and gotten to be Nick Nemeth and Claudio Castagnoli in a promotion that could also pay them $200,000 a year and give them national exposure. Is Bo Dallas getting more out of just standing around and being a fall guy for The Miz, or could he have used a fresh coat of paint and a chance to find himself elsewhere?

Wrestling needs competition and it needs stars. If The Rock could just start his own wrestling promotion, that would be great.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:49 PM   #37084
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Was originally just going to say that I could see Rich Swann being put into NXT and put into a fun tag team. But I went on that tangent instead.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:12 PM   #37085
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Originally Posted by #BrotherVito DELETED View Post

So that leaves me with the rest. TJP, Gran Metalik, Noam Dar, Ariya Daivari, Mustafa Ali, Lince Dorado. They're the ones that I think may be in some trouble. Of they group TJP figures to be the safest, but they abandoned his initial push after a month and he's just kinda been "there".
Of that group, can see Metalik and Dorado being dropped. WWE is never going to use actual lucha guys properly at least on the main brands.

Maybe Daivari gets dropped as well while TJP, Dar, and Ali still have some use for the Cruiser division. Seemed for a while they were building up Ali as a possible future champion and as someone to be a possible future star for the Arabic market.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:22 PM   #37086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I do get what you are a saying, and the slapping isn't cool, but it's not cool in a real world context. In a wrestling context it was what Santino deserved. I don't really feel sorry for him. Especially to see how he is acting now. Intimidating an old man who probably has Asperger's or something. It's so gross.
again Santino was being a wang. But unfortunately for Corny you reap what you sew. I mean we agree it's all kind of semantics., I don't think any scenario calls for you to slap your employee. Like during a rugby practice I'd punch fellow teammates if we got into a dust up but I wouldn't put up with some dick head coach punching me.
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:00 PM   #37087
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I just laugh at the thought of Santino not moving if Stan Hansen comes at him, and the outcome of that.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:01 PM   #37088
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Cole's yelling sounds so forced.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:03 PM   #37089
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I do get what you are a saying, and the slapping isn't cool, but it's not cool in a real world context. In a wrestling context it was what Santino deserved. I don't really feel sorry for him. Especially to see how he is acting now. Intimidating an old man who probably has Asperger's or something. It's so gross.
expand on "in a wrestling context" for me please
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:23 PM   #37090
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In response to that Noid post:

The problem is that WWE has gone too far in the that direction of "one star". We're supposed to laser focus on, say, Cena, but they don't bother building anyone else for the long run. Not until another plague of injuries occurs. Not saying everyone needs to be at the top of the card, but there are too many that just aren't doing anything of note.

I mean, in a microcosm, look at the Smackdown tag scene. Why is the New Day/Uso feud neverending? I mean, besides the history book scrubbing thing, it is doing nothing but overexposing those two teams. Meanwhile, the rest of the "division" isn't really doing shit. Over teasing a Hype Bros breakup and/or heel turn, comedy skits with Fashion Police and Ascention, Shelton and Gable are there. Then maybe some NXT blood gets pumped in... but why? Just to languish?

One of the famous Vince-isms is "Perception is reality, pal!" but the company has been doing less and less to make a good portion of their roster seem like anybody. And then, the talent gets blamed for not connecting? Why am I going to care about someone who loses all the time? How is anyone going to get behind *anyone* with 50-50 booking? Everyone is on equal footing, and nobody is championship material.

WWE is focused on the wrong shit. It's nice that they gave Jinder and Roman a push, but they are trying to create artificial demand for those two; Jinder for the cynical India market cash-grab, and Roman to essentially try to recreate The Rock (in terms of marketablity, I mean). They squandered the Ryder Revolution, and the few times he was on TV in an actual match, he was usually jobbing... short lived title reign notwithstanding. It took forever to get behind Daniel Bryan, instead of milking that cow like they would have back in the day. There was a golden opportunity to have Bray Wyatt essentially be the next Undertaker... but they saw fit to job him out at every opportunity to the point where he became a joke and a glorified manager to two tall guys who seem to have fallen off the planet. Curtis Axel was repackaged and promoted... for a couple of weeks before making him into a meatshield lackey and sucking any of the credibility they had just pumped into him away.They managed to squeeze most of the mystique out of Shinsuke. They hit the reset button on Bayley right after she got called up and she's been on a holding pattern since. Hopefully, they don't "get bored" and bury Asuka in a couple of months. They have EVERYTHING they would ever want in Brawn Strowman- tall, burly, strong, and even the rare commodity of being over on that alone- and all signs point to them just fattening him up to be fed to Reigns.

They have time to build other talent, they just squander that time with a boatload of advertisements, recaps of shit we just watched, and the same faces on repeat with promos and backstage segments. NXT is more like RAW used to be - they do more with less. The same people don't need to show up on every airing. Raw and SD and even 205 could do the same. Take time and care to develop these guys and gals instead of expecting them to outpop DX instantly, especially when nobody knows who they are and don't have any reason to latch on to yet another face in the crowd.

Yes, some folks can stand to go away and freshen up like Cody (Rhodes), but there is truly no reason why some of this can't be done in-house. They don't neccessarily need to "trim the fat" as much as they need to learn to take care of the toys they already have instead of trying to run out and get new ones all the time.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:09 AM   #37091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadrick View Post
expand on "in a wrestling context" for me please
Santino was a dick, he got knocked around by someone with seniority. A more extreme example of this could be Bob Holly and Matt Cappotelli. I remember going "boo-hoo" at the time too, but this was pretty commonplace and relatively tame stuff in the industry.

Cornette probably could have sent Santino to Rip Rogers to get stretched and no one would be any wiser and it would have hurt a lot more, lol.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:12 AM   #37092
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Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
I just laugh at the thought of Santino not moving if Stan Hansen comes at him, and the outcome of that.
You know what would have been funny/sad, depending on your perspective? If Cornette still carried a gimmicked racket and got a lucky shot in on Santino, and knocked him out JBL/Joey Styles style, and completely humiliated Santino again. Santino's neck is held together by duct-tape, so I wouldn't want him to get seriously hurt, but if Corny had just lost it and actually kicked Santino's ass? Holy shit, that would have been funny. Only if Santino were being the dick though.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:25 AM   #37093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Santino was a dick, he got knocked around by someone with seniority. A more extreme example of this could be Bob Holly and Matt Cappotelli. I remember going "boo-hoo" at the time too, but this was pretty commonplace and relatively tame stuff in the industry.

Cornette probably could have sent Santino to Rip Rogers to get stretched and no one would be any wiser and it would have hurt a lot more, lol.
Have you heard Santinos version of the story?
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:29 AM   #37094
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Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
again Santino was being a wang. But unfortunately for Corny you reap what you sew. I mean we agree it's all kind of semantics., I don't think any scenario calls for you to slap your employee. Like during a rugby practice I'd punch fellow teammates if we got into a dust up but I wouldn't put up with some dick head coach punching me.
Eh, we'll agree to disagree on the minor details. See, I'd rather be slapped by a coach than someone I considered a peer. I've only been slapped exactly once in my life, and it actually sobered up the situation tremendously, because I could respect where the slap was coming from.

I don't think Corny should have slapped Santino, but I also think more that Santino should have taken responsibility for fucking up more. I guess he didn't really get the chance to. I dunno, in my experience, I actually find people like Cornette really easy to deal with. I hate this about myself, because I generally don't like being told what to do, but when they yell at you then you just say "What would you like me to do?". Then you do it and later on you say "Thanks for your guidance," and they seem to take a real shine to that.

Like, Cornette had to yell at John Cena exactly once. Cena was clever enough to be like "Oh, this is how you learn from this guy." As a teacher, Cornette should be more flexible with how he teaches too, but I dunno, without getting too "the world is getting too soft!" because I'm generally a liberal hippy, I do think the wrestling business is supposed to be a bit tougher than dudes getting upset because their trainer yelled at them and slapped them around for being a dick, lol. And you don't go to Harley Race, for example, and try to get Harley Race to teach you according to your learning style, lol.

I'm trying really hard not to make an argument for conformity and "taking it like a man," but it's fucking wrestling. I dunno.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:29 AM   #37095
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Have you heard Santinos version of the story?
I heard one version that sounded very incomplete. He kept saying he could have shot on Cornette. Like, no shit, you dumb-ass, lol.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:32 AM   #37096
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I also heard Santino claim that Cornette called him. Dude is a bit dumb, I think, haha.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:35 AM   #37097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
In response to that Noid post:

The problem is that WWE has gone too far in the that direction of "one star". We're supposed to laser focus on, say, Cena, but they don't bother building anyone else for the long run. Not until another plague of injuries occurs. Not saying everyone needs to be at the top of the card, but there are too many that just aren't doing anything of note.

I mean, in a microcosm, look at the Smackdown tag scene. Why is the New Day/Uso feud neverending? I mean, besides the history book scrubbing thing, it is doing nothing but overexposing those two teams. Meanwhile, the rest of the "division" isn't really doing shit. Over teasing a Hype Bros breakup and/or heel turn, comedy skits with Fashion Police and Ascention, Shelton and Gable are there. Then maybe some NXT blood gets pumped in... but why? Just to languish?

One of the famous Vince-isms is "Perception is reality, pal!" but the company has been doing less and less to make a good portion of their roster seem like anybody. And then, the talent gets blamed for not connecting? Why am I going to care about someone who loses all the time? How is anyone going to get behind *anyone* with 50-50 booking? Everyone is on equal footing, and nobody is championship material.

WWE is focused on the wrong shit. It's nice that they gave Jinder and Roman a push, but they are trying to create artificial demand for those two; Jinder for the cynical India market cash-grab, and Roman to essentially try to recreate The Rock (in terms of marketablity, I mean). They squandered the Ryder Revolution, and the few times he was on TV in an actual match, he was usually jobbing... short lived title reign notwithstanding. It took forever to get behind Daniel Bryan, instead of milking that cow like they would have back in the day. There was a golden opportunity to have Bray Wyatt essentially be the next Undertaker... but they saw fit to job him out at every opportunity to the point where he became a joke and a glorified manager to two tall guys who seem to have fallen off the planet. Curtis Axel was repackaged and promoted... for a couple of weeks before making him into a meatshield lackey and sucking any of the credibility they had just pumped into him away.They managed to squeeze most of the mystique out of Shinsuke. They hit the reset button on Bayley right after she got called up and she's been on a holding pattern since. Hopefully, they don't "get bored" and bury Asuka in a couple of months. They have EVERYTHING they would ever want in Brawn Strowman- tall, burly, strong, and even the rare commodity of being over on that alone- and all signs point to them just fattening him up to be fed to Reigns.

They have time to build other talent, they just squander that time with a boatload of advertisements, recaps of shit we just watched, and the same faces on repeat with promos and backstage segments. NXT is more like RAW used to be - they do more with less. The same people don't need to show up on every airing. Raw and SD and even 205 could do the same. Take time and care to develop these guys and gals instead of expecting them to outpop DX instantly, especially when nobody knows who they are and don't have any reason to latch on to yet another face in the crowd.

Yes, some folks can stand to go away and freshen up like Cody (Rhodes), but there is truly no reason why some of this can't be done in-house. They don't neccessarily need to "trim the fat" as much as they need to learn to take care of the toys they already have instead of trying to run out and get new ones all the time.
I agree that booking and philosophy there is shit. They back the wrong guy a lot of the time. But also look at some of those suggestions you made. I know they are just hypothetical, but Zack Ryder? Ryder sucks, dude. Should they have done more with him? Maybe. Axel I personally love, but come on. They could have given him a better presentation out the gate than Michael McGillicutty though. What the fuck was that?

But it's not that there is one star that is the problem. It is finding that right star. WWE wants to tell you who the star is going to be, and that is a problem.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:14 AM   #37098
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Quick results from tonight's SmackDown LIVE house show in East Lansing, MI:

The Usos © d. The New Day, Breezango and Benjamin & Gable -- Fatal 4 Way (4 corners style) tag team match -- SDL Tag Team Championship

Bobby Roode d. Dolph Ziggler

Tye Dillinger & The Hype Bros d. Aiden English & The Ascension

Randy Orton d. Rusev

Charlotte Flair, Becky Lynch & Naomi d. Lana, Tamina, Carmella (w/James Ellsworth) & Women's Champion Natalya -- 4-on-3 Handicap match

Sami Zayn d. Mike Kanellis after KO came out and distracted Mike by congratulating him and Maria on their first child being on the way, allowing Sami to hit the Helluva Kick

KO promo

AJ Styles & Shinsuke Nakamura d. WWE Champion Jinder Mahal (w/The Singh Brothers) & United States Champion Baron Corbin

Alright show overall, I guess, although seemed way more underwhelming than when they were last here in 2013...I give it a 'C'.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:23 AM   #37099
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Going to a RAW house show here on Saturday.....

They are advertising Roman vs Braun in a last man standing match, Jason Jordan vs. The Miz, and Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose vs The Bar

I think I would have rather had a Smackdown house show, but hopefully will be good......
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:51 AM   #37100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Santino was a dick
SPEAKING OF DICKS, Cornette decided to flop his out live on stage.

http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/cor.../#.WdyyW2grLD5

Video is thankfully censored
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:32 AM   #37101
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I do get what you are a saying, and the slapping isn't cool, but it's not cool in a real world context. In a wrestling context it was what Santino deserved. I don't really feel sorry for him. Especially to see how he is acting now. Intimidating an old man who probably has Asperger's or something. It's so gross.
You feel intimidating your subordinates by hitting them is any better?
Last edited by Big Vic; 10-10-2017 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:17 AM   #37102
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Why in the fuck did Cornette expose his penis?!?!
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:22 AM   #37103
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I bet it was very small.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:28 PM   #37104
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I don't trust 'The Sun' as a reliable source but I suppose ya never know...
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:47 PM   #37105
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So Jim Cornette spent all that time ranting about Joey Ryan's penis only to use his own to try and 'get over'

smh...
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:59 PM   #37106
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Quote:
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I don't trust 'The Sun' as a reliable source of energy.
Kenton "Big Coal" Lane
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:09 PM   #37107
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Anyone that seen Cornette's penis should get a refund, poor souls.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:26 PM   #37108
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Quote:
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Anyone that seen Cornette's penis should get a refund, poor souls.
I find it amazing that the Bray Wyatt Sister Abigail promo isn't the worst thing a wrestling fan could have seen on Monday.

Imagine seeing Cornettes dick, then going home to settle down and try to forget with an episode of Monday Night Raw and getting that shit.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:33 PM   #37109
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I honestly think that rivals the David Flair titan tron, a chair shot to austin over and over and not much else. When they had Ray Traylor in the suit and tie gimmick for whatever reason.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:55 PM   #37110
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Because a BOSS wears a suit and tie. Duh.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:58 PM   #37111
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Because a BOSS wears a suit and tie. Duh.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:59 PM   #37112
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:06 PM   #37113
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:09 PM   #37114
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What does your boss wear?
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:09 PM   #37115
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I take it this was after he whipped his pickle out?
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:23 PM   #37116
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What does your boss wear?
Gimp mask with a ball gag and a mankini.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:31 PM   #37117
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LOL Cornette is such a worker
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:56 PM   #37118
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Quote:
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Was originally just going to say that I could see Rich Swann being put into NXT and put into a fun tag team. But I went on that tangent instead.
him and no way jose.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:06 AM   #37119
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:41 AM   #37120
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Pretty sure Cornette is a legit genius.
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