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Old 05-31-2019, 04:56 PM   #81
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Jim Cornette is great but there are some easy instances you can go to if you want to point out how hypocritical he can be about "stupid" angles or spots.

The dick flip, inflatable doll and invisible grenade are things he brings up a lot and he's right.

But then you find out about Prince Kharis, or you see a Kowabunga match and you think "how is that not exposing the business?"
The same could be said for his love of Dusty Rhodes, who's years of incredible popularity put paid to any notion that there was ever realism in 70's and 80's wrestling. Fuck me, watch Ray Gunkel vs Lou Thesz or any of the revered stuff of old that you can actually see in relatively decent quality nowadays... it was always pretty obviously bullshit.

Corny just gets mad when other people can tolerate more B.S than he can.
He fucking hates claw holds but managed a wrestler who used one in his own company...

Cornette should have to watch his matches against Paul E every time he wants to tirade about how much Kenny Omega sucks.

So yeah, I think mostly he's unhappy that there is no real effort to preserve kayfabe despite it never really covering up the fact that wrestling has always been silly. Harley Race looked silly in his matches sometimes, Ric Flair and Terry Funk too. It's just that they maintained the veneer a bit better in their day and there isn't much proof of that era if there ever was a dick flip.

Quite frankly I would not be surprised to see a clip of Ric Flair selling a dick flip back in the day. He sold everything else.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:32 PM   #82
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Those are pretty daft points.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:37 PM   #83
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apparently Jim is now homophobic too.

saying someone looks like they came from a drag show is now homophobic in this ultra sensitive time. this was in response to Sonny Kiss.

people are all upset about Jim's comments on twitter.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:40 PM   #84
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Those are pretty daft points.
You can’t prove that Ric Flair never took a dick flip in the 70s though so... CHECKMATE.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:55 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Seth82 View Post
apparently Jim is now homophobic too.

saying someone looks like they came from a drag show is now homophobic in this ultra sensitive time. this was in response to Sonny Kiss.

people are all upset about Jim's comments on twitter.
His comments were a little cringe-worthy, in the tenor of modern times. The word "transvestite" does not translate well. It's pretty obvious that Cornette does not have issues with the LGBT+ community though. Anyone who listens to his political rants would get that. He might not "get" the community as much as some that immerse themselves, but he's generally a very supportive dude of people doing what they want. So that's a pretty dishonest misrepresentation of his stance to try and discredit him ad hominem, because it's easier than actually arguing against his salient points.

It came off to me like he didn't get why Sonny Kiss was doing what he's doing. It was a criticism of the presentation and production more than any lifestyle Sonny lives. And the ass spot was fucking ridiculous and Orlando Jordan in TNA level bad.

I can understand why people in the LGBT+ community would get tired of having to "explain" themselves as performers and whatever, and probably just want to be -- but this isn't "real life." If it is a performance. Elements to Kiss' presentation probably do need to be conveyed to an audience, just as anybody's would be. I don't get why Sammy Guevara wears a panda head, for example. It doesn't mean I'm against pandas or people that are into dressing up as animals or whatever.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:56 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
You can’t prove that Ric Flair never took a dick flip in the 70s though so... CHECKMATE.
I have no doubt that Flair flipped plenty of people with his dick in the 70's. If that were Seanny's assertion, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him outright.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:58 PM   #87
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Is Cornette still not on Omega? I mean, I get the wrestling a kid shit. But that was years ago. He's clearly a star, great in the ring and is a star despite never being in wwe. What's there to shit on at this point?
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:00 PM   #88
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He’s basically said that the kid/blowup doll shit disqualified him from ever being taken seriously.

But also, he doesn’t like his facial expressions and his voice. The latter is actually a fair point.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:21 PM   #89
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I can see his facial expressions being an issue. I feel like he's toned it down quite a bit. He can't help his voice so that is what it is.

The blowup doll and kid matches being heldagainst him when he's clearly elite is just being stupid for the sake of stubbornness. That shit was silly but Omega is a star in the ring and it's just dumb not to acknowledge him as such at this point.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:21 PM   #90
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He was a complete homophobic piece of shit towards Nyla Rose and Sonny Kiss
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:47 PM   #91
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You guys talking about Ric Flair like he doesn’t literally have his own penis related signature maneuver. Grapefruit claw, baby.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:47 PM   #92
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Speaking of the Nature Boy, the Flair Flop is one of my absolute favorite staples in wrestling. But you can’t tell me that shit wasn’t exposing the business back in the day.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:55 PM   #93
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The Flair flop in its heyday was fucking glorious. Flair's timing with its use was impeccable.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:41 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J.K View Post
He was a complete homophobic piece of shit towards Nyla Rose and Sonny Kiss
What did he say about Nyla Rose that could even be considered remotely homophobic? I was actually listening for things that people would twist, but couldn't find a single thing.

On the Sonny Kiss thing: I kind of feel like yelling at the people calling Cornette's criticism of him homophobia: "Not every gay person dresses like that, and not every person who dresses like that is gay, you homophobes!"

Inclusion and representation are super-important things. I'm big on the whole equality thing. I just don't think that Cornette's quibbles had anything to do with gender or sexuality, as much as it was about the psychology of wrestling and presentation of a fight.

Brian Last probably should stepped in on the Sonny Kiss stuff, just to clarify that it wasn't about Kiss as a person or what he does outside a ring, but maybe he felt it was pretty self-explanatory?

Still, Cornette could probably express himself better on these things, because it gives the people who can't really engage with critical thinking too much fire to ignore his actual points. This is where the "he hates anything new" straw-man comes from. He's also a homophobe now because he doesn't understand why Sonny Kiss coming to the ring like he's on a catwalk so he can shove his ass in people's faces makes sense in matches with World Title implications. I mean, I'm glad Kiss is working, but I can't explain that one either.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:42 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
Speaking of the Nature Boy, the Flair Flop is one of my absolute favorite staples in wrestling. But you can’t tell me that shit wasn’t exposing the business back in the day.
I agree, but I'm not a fan of the Flair flop anyway. If he did it once in a blue moon, okay.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:47 PM   #96
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My problem with how Omega was handled at Double or Nothing was before the Jericho match he was saying in the promo, and I think commentators were saying as well, something like "This is Kenny Omega's chance to make a first impression on a lot of people!"

To which I thought, "Well, it would have been, if he wasn't out there earlier acting like a bit of a goof and welcoming people to the show."

Then he made his entrance and I did think he looked like a "star".... but I really wished that it was indeed my first impression of him.... Thought his antics earlier in the night "lowered him down" a bit.....
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:49 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Those are pretty daft points.

It's all daft, Noid.

It's wrestling.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:51 PM   #98
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But rassling is SERIOUS BUSINESS. Everyone knows that.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:57 PM   #99
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My problem with how Omega was handled at Double or Nothing was before the Jericho match he was saying in the promo, and I think commentators were saying as well, something like "This is Kenny Omega's chance to make a first impression on a lot of people!"

To which I thought, "Well, it would have been, if he wasn't out there earlier acting like a bit of a goof and welcoming people to the show."

Then he made his entrance and I did think he looked like a "star".... but I really wished that it was indeed my first impression of him.... Thought his antics earlier in the night "lowered him down" a bit.....
The more time that passes, the more the commentary bothers me. Stuff like in the Battle Royal with Marvez saying "If you like what you see, there's going to be more coming" right after Glacier "freezes" Sunny Daze. It's like...bad time to say that thing, lol.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:58 PM   #100
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Yeah, I remember some point in the battle royale them talking about "if you like this action, be sure to buy the PPV", and I thought "This is not really selling it to me at all, guys, and I can't imagine it selling anybody"
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:08 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Yeah, I remember some point in the battle royale them talking about "if you like this action, be sure to buy the PPV", and I thought "This is not really selling it to me at all, guys, and I can't imagine it selling anybody"
Lol, yeah. It was worse than simply being a throwaway line. It almost seemed timed to be hilariously bad, which it obviously wasn't.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:12 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
Speaking of the Nature Boy, the Flair Flop is one of my absolute favorite staples in wrestling. But you can’t tell me that shit wasn’t exposing the business back in the day.

I honestly think Cornette just misses the old ladies in the front row.

There is no wrestling company that doesn't or didn't have it's own ridiculous gimmicks, spots or storylines.
It's hard to reconcile a lot of what Cornette celebrates about the past and his problems with exposing the business today. It's like he would love pantomime but hate a play where they broke the fourth wall.

Not that he was wrong about the dick flip, doll or invisible grenade. But for every one of them there's a territory equivalent somewhere back in the past that people give a free pass to because their granny was really into it.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:17 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
But rassling is SERIOUS BUSINESS. Everyone knows that.

Adrian Street probably sold a few dick flips
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:35 PM   #104
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Adrian Street probably sold a few dick flips
Why would you flip off a dick if you were Adrian Street? God, you make no sense, Seanny.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:39 PM   #105
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Don't worry about it
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:40 PM   #106
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A lot of those territory examples do have internal logic though. Jim Cornette being embarrassed by a Ninja Turtle is fine. A guy in a costume could do that to Cornette. What doesn't make sense is when a Ninja Turtle competes in a legitimate match where they are trying to win a championship or something.

You can say that they are differing degrees of silly, but that difference is really, really important. It's the difference between not knowing the difference between luke-warm, warm, hot and boiling water.

Does Cornette miss the old ladies in the front row? Possibly. But that there are no old ladies in the front row is kind of his point. That's when you know you've gone too far into boiling territory.

There needs to be an internal logic behind why you are doing something. That's what the psychology part of wrestling is, isn't it? It's the mentality behind each decision you make. If there's no reason you are doing something, then why are you doing it?
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:42 PM   #107
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No that's all wrong.

Write it again.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:42 PM   #108
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No, you're all wrong.

Write yourself again.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:04 PM   #109
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You're alt right
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:37 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanny One Ball View Post
Adrian Street probably sold a few dick flips
Adrian Street beat the shit out of Jimmy Saville because he thought he was one of the boys. Luckily for Saville, Adrian didn't find out about the boy fucking until after the shit kicking.

Mick Foley said the only time he ever hit 10 on the pain scale was when Street put a hold on him. Mick fucking Foley.

If someone tried to get Street to grab their dick, Street would have a new bowtie.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:46 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanny One Ball View Post
I honestly think Cornette just misses the old ladies in the front row.

There is no wrestling company that doesn't or didn't have it's own ridiculous gimmicks, spots or storylines.
It's hard to reconcile a lot of what Cornette celebrates about the past and his problems with exposing the business today. It's like he would love pantomime but hate a play where they broke the fourth wall.

Not that he was wrong about the dick flip, doll or invisible grenade. But for every one of them there's a territory equivalent somewhere back in the past that people give a free pass to because their granny was really into it.
He's a gasbag but a gasbag with great knowledge of wrestling history and near unmatched insight if you sift through the vitriol and histrionics.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:22 PM   #112
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All the knowledge in the world does not give you the right to be willfully ignorant.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:25 PM   #113
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Lolllllllll at him wanting someone to explain why Sonny Kiss looks like that

Why the fuck do you think, Jim?
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:43 PM   #114
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His apology on the incident was pretty bad since he tried to put all the blame on Joey Ryan instead.

Also not the first time Cornette has thrown slurs at wrestlers. At least in Ryan's case, he's thrown slurs at him going back to at least 2015. Same problem then where he tried to completely blame Ryan for his use of the slurs.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:46 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
Adrian Street beat the shit out of Jimmy Saville because he thought he was one of the boys. Luckily for Saville, Adrian didn't find out about the boy fucking until after the shit kicking.

Mick Foley said the only time he ever hit 10 on the pain scale was when Street put a hold on him. Mick fucking Foley.

If someone tried to get Street to grab their dick, Street would have a new bowtie.


So Mick Foley has something in common with a dead paedophile. Cool.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:54 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
His apology on the incident was pretty bad since he tried to put all the blame on Joey Ryan instead.

Also not the first time Cornette has thrown slurs at wrestlers. At least in Ryan's case, he's thrown slurs at him going back to at least 2015. Same problem then where he tried to completely blame Ryan for his use of the slurs.
Lol, Ryan deserves everything he gets. Didn't he post up a picture of his dick in a candy box with the caption "Something for the kids?" And if Ryan did say that Cornette's criticisms were homophobic, which they weren't, then he is a piece of shit.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:56 PM   #117
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I genuinely don't know, but is "transvestite" even a slur? I was reading up on it somewhere and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Some embrace it, while others reject it. I think that should be down to the person, and it's a word that really shouldn't be used outside-in, but painting it as a slur is a bit loaded.
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:01 PM   #118
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I don't think Jim Cornette is a homophone.

Maybe if his name was Jim Gym...
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:02 PM   #119
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I heard Adrian Street is a transvestite hooker. Vastardikai told me he had a dick necklace.
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:05 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I genuinely don't know, but is "transvestite" even a slur? I was reading up on it somewhere and there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Some embrace it, while others reject it. I think that should be down to the person, and it's a word that really shouldn't be used outside-in, but painting it as a slur is a bit loaded.
Consider Kiss and his boyfriend were upset over it, I'd consider it to be one in this case. Several of Kiss' co-workers in AEW also felt similar in Cornette crossing the line.

Cornette was specifically attacking Kiss' sexuality with his rant when he was complaining about stuff in the Battle Royal match.
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