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Old 09-10-2018, 11:31 PM   #1
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I'm not sure Fox knows what they've purchased.
This an absolute mess they have purchased. The writers, the producers and even some of the workers make WWE a product that is not sustainable in the ratings. There is no way this product is worth what they paid. I have to believe there is an out clause for Fox. Fox has to have some sort of cancel clause that would save them a few billion. No way Fox just went into this deal trusting WWE. If so, they clearly have not watched the product at all.

It dont matter who did what to who at this point. The fact is, we went to war. And now there aint no going back. It's what war is you know? Once you're in it, you're in it. If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie, but we gotta fight!
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:36 PM   #2
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It's hasn't been about the product for a while. It's all about WWE's philanthropy now. They give WWE money and WWE does stuff like the Conners Cure segment tonight to make it look good.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:38 PM   #3
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Fox is in the ratings game. Not the charity game.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:45 PM   #4
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Fox is in the ratings game. Not the charity game.
They pay out the ass for NASCAR as well which has been dealing with their own ratings drop similar to WWE.
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Old 09-10-2018, 11:54 PM   #5
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They pay out the ass for NASCAR as well which has been dealing with their own ratings drop similar to WWE.

yep and if you read the news, that might be coming to a head soon.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:04 AM   #6
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Current deal still has 2 years on it. Most fans are looking forward to it being up because that'd be the best chance to change up the schedule. Really couldn't see Fox dropping NASCAR but I won't be shocked if they do.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:20 AM   #7
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Actually the deal is until 2024 which ends the same year WWE's deal with Fox ends.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:29 AM   #8
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I dont know the details of that deal. I do know they lost a ton of money today because the Brickyard ( one of there bigger races ) was rained out on Sunday and got ran on a Monday afternoon and no one really knows about it.

Either they guaranteed a ton of money to NASCAAR or that deal could be ended soon.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:49 AM   #9
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That deal won't end before its up. NASCAR has rain delays all the time its just part of the deal. Fox doesn't even carry that race NBC does. Like WWE they have deals with both and Fox only carries the first half the season.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:00 AM   #10
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I said from the onset fox was getting a bad deal.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:30 AM   #11
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NBC should be the one more worried since they paid more for RAW than FOX did for Smackdown. RAW has been way more abysmal for quality this year than Smackdown.

If USA Network didn't suck at producing new big and lasting hit shows, NBC probably pays WWE a lot less or at least puts the pressure on WWE to make RAW better. Instead WWE can pretty much coast for the new few years knowing USA Network won't drop them from the valuable Monday primetime spot.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
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NBC should be the one more worried since they paid more for RAW than FOX did for Smackdown. RAW has been way more abysmal for quality this year than Smackdown.

If USA Network didn't suck at producing new big and lasting hit shows, NBC probably pays WWE a lot less or at least puts the pressure on WWE to make RAW better. Instead WWE can pretty much coast for the new few years knowing USA Network won't drop them from the valuable Monday primetime spot.
yeah fox is getting the better deal as long as they keep smackdown to 2 hours
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:07 AM   #13
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There is no out for Fox, it was a bidding war where WWE had all the leverage.

If anything Fox will move Smackdown to FS1 or FX, but the whole reason Fox gave the contract to WWE because they want live programming.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:18 AM   #14
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are the ratings actually good compared to other shows today though? I feel like the old way of watching tv is dying anyway so maybe it's a decent deal in 2018? I think watching weekly wrestling is a dying form of entertainment, but i got to think Fox or NBC is getting some kind of other kickback from other areas the WWE is profitable in.

I really don't know what a high rating is considered in 2018 for a weekly tv show, but i would think tv ratings are dropping overall, right?
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:27 AM   #15
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also i wonder if the WWE will eventually just air the shows on the network instead of using one of the networks.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:39 AM   #16
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WWE is usually behind Love and Hip-hop and Football.

Maybe NBA too.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:39 AM   #17
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Right after the Board ousts Vince for giving up half a billion dollars a year
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:05 PM   #18
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also i wonder if the WWE will eventually just air the shows on the network instead of using one of the networks.
Not when the major networks will pay more than what they make from WWE Network subscriptions.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
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are the ratings actually good compared to other shows today though? I feel like the old way of watching tv is dying anyway so maybe it's a decent deal in 2018? I think watching weekly wrestling is a dying form of entertainment, but i got to think Fox or NBC is getting some kind of other kickback from other areas the WWE is profitable in.

I really don't know what a high rating is considered in 2018 for a weekly tv show, but i would think tv ratings are dropping overall, right?
Yes the ratings are very good. top 3 on all of telivision every night they air.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:32 PM   #20
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I think Friday night is a bad night for SD but we'll see how it goes
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon View Post
are the ratings actually good compared to other shows today though? I feel like the old way of watching tv is dying anyway so maybe it's a decent deal in 2018? I think watching weekly wrestling is a dying form of entertainment, but i got to think Fox or NBC is getting some kind of other kickback from other areas the WWE is profitable in.

I really don't know what a high rating is considered in 2018 for a weekly tv show, but i would think tv ratings are dropping overall, right?
Somewhat.

RAW's yearly decline is usually higher than the average for tv but since it has no off-season, its still a very reliable show for weekly content. When there are better things to watch on tv, RAW struggles to be on top and when its a slow week, RAW usually does well in rankings.

Smackdown has struggled to stay competitive in the live era but has the same advantage as RAW with being a very reliable weekly show. If FOX could produce weekly cooking contest episodes for Friday nights, they'd have no need for Smackdown since that show generated like 2x-3x of what Smackdown does.
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Old 09-11-2018, 07:59 PM   #22
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I think FOX knows exactly what they paid for. I'm sure there is an out clause for them if the ratings drop outside a certain number of what is observable overall in television. For example, if TV is going down 8% each year, then if WWE's ratings drop 8%, it would probably be unreasonable to back out of the deal. But if WWE goes down 20% versus TV's 8%, then surely FOX can be like "Yo, you're not holding up your end."

I mean, that would just make sense to me, but I don't understand contract law.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:06 PM   #23
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Fox is freaking out because they're struggling in the ratings. So they spent a billion dollars on a show that gets identical ratings to the show they already air on Tuesday nights. And they're gonna put that show on Friday nights. I know it's got added value because it's live and year-round. But that's hilarious.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:08 PM   #24
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I think there is genuine hope, even though no one has come out and said it, that the move to network TV is going to boost WWE. If they can get 2 million viewers on cable, then they should be able to get at least that many on network, even with the day change.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:12 PM   #25
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I don't know. The gap between cable and network isn't what it used to be. For the most part, people either have cable or they don't watch live TV at all nowadays.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:15 PM   #26
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Yeah, I agree, but I'm sure the people sitting in boardrooms at FOX aren't sitting around talking actively about how they are redundant.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:16 PM   #27
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And Raw managed to spike a rating for Raw 25 or whatever it was called earlier this year, and no one came back, because it sucked. And WWE did try for that. I honestly don't know if they can even be good anymore.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:19 PM   #28
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With kayfabe being dead, they can't push stars, because the fans cotton on and organize themselves to boo. The fans have decided they like certain guys, and those guys aren't stars. And that climate makes things very off-putting for people coming in. They've really pickled themselves.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:31 PM   #29
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Fox is freaking out because they're struggling in the ratings. So they spent a billion dollars on a show that gets identical ratings to the show they already air on Tuesday nights. And they're gonna put that show on Friday nights. I know it's got added value because it's live and year-round. But that's hilarious.
Not to mention they are also going to be spending huge sums on both regular promotion with their normal viewers and cross-promotion with their sports viewers hoping a big chunk end up watching SmackDown. If they get WWE to produce more shows to cover the gap UFC caused, that's even more money being spent in the end since the current contract only covers Smackdown.

Pretty much need a big jump in both viewers and weekly rankings for the long term or else its just money being flushed down the drain.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:43 PM   #30
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And Raw managed to spike a rating for Raw 25 or whatever it was called earlier this year, and no one came back, because it sucked. And WWE did try for that. I honestly don't know if they can even be good anymore.
I wouldn't say they tried for that. It seemed like a prime example of "Let's just bring in legends and do nothing else."
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:44 PM   #31
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They're not going to be able to get sports fans to take WWE seriously. Those days are gone. And they can't hook too many kids, because kids aren't as stupid as WWE makes them out to be. They seriously only have the hangover fans left that consume wrestling in that way, because it's habit or whatever.

I have a feeling that because they're on FOX, they're going to go to the lowest common denominator. Like, not smut, but just in terms of "Who watches sports on FOX? Idiots. Okay, how do we hook idiots..."
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:44 PM   #32
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I wouldn't say they tried for that. It seemed like a prime example of "Let's just bring in legends and do nothing else."
Oh, that's what I think they think trying is.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:48 PM   #33
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Well, if Vince McMahon isn't trying, it's because he's trying not to try. Like, if he tries, then he has to keep trying to put on a good show. He's in a bulk volume mass content creation business now. The less effort into producing WWE television, the better. So maybe they won't try when they go to FOX? Like, maybe the shows will be headlined by Maryse vs. Brie Bella, and that's just the way they want it?
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:02 PM   #34
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Fox can't cancel Smackdown, they are on the hook. They can move Smackdown to cable, which I assume happens after the first year.

Fox isn't Fox as you are thinking of it anymore. They sold almost everything to Disney, and only kept a few assets with the plan being live sports as their biggest calling card.

They gave WWE a $billion because that is what the market demanded. They know exactly what they are getting, something that gets bigger numbers than UFC, something they can cross promote, and something that fits into their new live sports oriented business model.

Fox is basically paying a little less than $4 Million a week for 2 hours of live television.

By comparison, Fox pays $2 Million per 30 minute episode of Family Guy, which only has 22 new episodes per week and had almost identical ratings as Smackdown during the last year.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:22 PM   #35
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I'm fairly certain that FOX would be able to cancel SmackDown, lol. I'm fairly certain there would have to be an out clause, regardless of how badly FOX wants all those other things. If I really need a new lawn mower, I still get one with warranty. Given their fascination with sports, unique sporting events would also mean that there would need to be some sort of preemption clause in the contract too. It's not like just because FOX badly wants SmackDown, they were like "Lol you now own Friday nights on FOX, go nuts." That's just a bit much.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:24 PM   #36
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Like, if they started cross-promoting SmackDown with the football on Thursday, and people started writing in to FOX saying "Get this gay wrestling away from my football," eventually FOX would have to say "Yeah, this isn't working, guys." And they'd have to retain some sort of right to say that, because anything else is madness and affects all your other products too.

FOX will try with SmackDown. They'll do all those things. But if it doesn't work, I'm sure there are ways they can shun WWE completely because WWE didn't live up on their end. What if Vince just decided that SmackDown should now be a cat going out to the ring and shitting each week? What's to stop him?
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:36 PM   #37
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I'm fairly certain that FOX would be able to cancel SmackDown, lol. I'm fairly certain there would have to be an out clause, regardless of how badly FOX wants all those other things. If I really need a new lawn mower, I still get one with warranty. Given their fascination with sports, unique sporting events would also mean that there would need to be some sort of preemption clause in the contract too. It's not like just because FOX badly wants SmackDown, they were like "Lol you now own Friday nights on FOX, go nuts." That's just a bit much.
I am saying their out would be moving Smackdown to a cable channel.

If WWE had multiple offers, they had the leverage. Why would WWE sign the contract with those provisions? Answer is they wouldn't. It's why the best athletes get perks like no trade clauses in their contracts, because they have the leverage.

Regardless, Fox in on the hook for that money. If they really wanted to get out of it, they could offer WWE a buyout, but they would still need WWE to agree.

As for your cat example, that would be WWE breaching contract, that's a whole other situation.

And cross promotional would be in Fox's best interest, but they don't have to. That is also far different then just saying "you are cancelled so we are going to stop paying you."
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:46 PM   #38
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A legit scenario might be WWE accepts a buyout of $.75 on the dollar, and has the right to get a new tv deal immediately.

Say after one year this happens, Fox buys out for $600 Million of the remaining $800 million of the deal. WWE could stretch that out 4 years, $150 Million a year, and sell Smackdown to say ESPN for a big discount, say only $60 Million a year, a steal for ESPN, and WWE comes out with an extra $10 Million a year.

Fox then gets 2 hours of TV back they can fill with something else that will get the same ratings, and not be a live show. Fox would be more likely to keep Smackdown on the books and win cable on Friday nights then just walking away.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:51 PM   #39
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Lol, I don't think you really understand what I am saying.

They probably would move SmackDown to cable, but they would also be pissed that they are paying that much for a cable show. WWE had leverage, but leverage doesn't mean that you get to make whatever crazy demands you want, haha. WWE would sign a contract with those provisions because I'm fairly certain they would be pretty standard contract things. If you can't provide the service we want, you are breaching your part of the contract. I am talking about breaching. I am sure that there is something in the contract that outlines what SmackDown is and what it is supposed to do, and how it will be identifiable when it is not doing those things.

Buying out would be necessary if WWE held up everything they were contractually obligated to. I'm sure there are review years after maybe the first 2 or 3 years where FOX gets to, with enough notice, let WWE know that they aren't going to be going forward with SmackDown anymore, regardless of how well or badly it is performing, and that this would result in some sort of cancellation fee or something.

But I doubt Vince McMahon got a contract saying "Here is $1 billion for 5 years guaranteed even if it stinks and you can't fill a bingo hall, haha lol." There are expected terms and conditions that FOX would have been insane to allow WWE to waive.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:53 PM   #40
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I'm sure they would get paid out if they got cancelled, but I think it is a bit ridiculous to suggest that "FOX can't cancel SmackDown."
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