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Old 06-12-2020, 08:40 PM   #41
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RAW is so lucky


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Old 06-13-2020, 03:20 AM   #42
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Lol. That was my thought watching SD.
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Old 06-13-2020, 01:51 PM   #43
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It's just like the last time he fired Heyman from creative. Paul comes up with 10 ideas, fights like hell for them, and in the end Vince allows 1 or 2 watered down ones through.

Who the hell would want to work that way?
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Old 06-13-2020, 05:23 PM   #44
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Both PWI and Post Wrestling had interesting reports about how Heyman was pretty much doomed to fail because of Vince's stubbornness to let things play out and RAW being terrible at growing new viewers ever since the 3 Hour era started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWI
First let me say that there is a LOT of talk of there being more to the story of Paul Heyman being removed as the head of Raw Creative than just the ratings hit that Raw has taken of late, but if we were to just go by the numbers, did Vince McMahon make the right move by putting Smackdown’s Bruce Prichard in charge of the red brand?

Let’s take a look, using the Nielsen ratings from the first show that WWE did for each brand in the no crowd era of TV from the Performance Center.

On March 13, Smackdown did 2,588,000 overnight viewers. Last Friday, the show did 1,935,000 overnight viewers. So since the start of the pandemic era Smackdown’s audience through their last show is down 25.2%.

On March 16, Raw did 2,335,000 overnight viewers. Last Monday, the show did 1,737,000 overnight viewers. So since the start of the pandemic era Raw’s audience through their last show is down 25.6%.

You could even make the case that since hour three of Raw pulls the overall number down every week, if Raw were a two hour show Heyman would actually have retained more of the audience than Prichard has for Smackdown during the no crowd area.
If it was just a ratings issue, then Vince should have also fired Prichard since he's done just as miserable of a job with viewership since the empty arena shows started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Post Wrestling
Between Raw and SmackDown, it’s the latter that has been more aggressive in pushing new performers and throwing a lot against the wall to a mixture of results. If for nothing else, this one-year period where Heyman had additional influence, they have added a new main event performer to that mix with Drew McIntyre. The debate for Lesnar’s opponent at WrestleMania was between McIntyre and Aleister Black and I had heard about Black’s name going back months prior. They went with McIntyre and he caught on immediately from the Royal Rumble victory up until the final Raw in front of fans at the Barclays Center. He’s in a difficult spot with the empty arenas but I feel confident he’s broken through and while not a game-changer for business, he’s a star to the audience and has made the transition of being a minor player in 2019 to the performer marketed as “the star of Monday Night Raw”.

Behind McIntyre, the last four months have seen a big rehabilitation for Asuka who had fallen greatly from her star power in NXT when brought up to the main roster and discarded after WrestleMania 34. Today, she is one of the biggest stars on the show and has bridged the language gap where her delivery has given the company confidence to put her in numerous speaking roles including commentary.

Others such as Black, Zelina Vega, The Street Profits, Apollo Crews, Austin Theory, and Murphy remain question marks. Black has top-level potential and has been protected up until this transition. Vega’s role has been lessened since her group stopped working with McIntyre weekly, but she stands out with great presence and speaking ability and can be a main event level manager. If anything, one can argue that too many new acts have been thrown against the wall instead of focusing on a finite number. Some of that is necessary because of less talent available during the pandemic and an added reliance on the Florida-based talent that led to Brendan Vink and Shane Thorne being put in a spotlight for a cup of coffee ...

But, lost in all this news is the central issues specific to this show. The first is that this was and is Vince McMahon’s show and while it was clear Heyman had navigated the system to exert influence on the show, it is always McMahon in the decision-maker role. The second is that the format of Raw is completely counter-intuitive to creating new fans.

We are coming up on eight years of Raw in the three-hour format and just about every analyst understood the trade-off in July 2012. The audience would erode because three hours is overkill and it’s offset by the financial value of adding the third hour. In 2014, it looked like a bad decision when their television rights were up and received an underwhelming deal compared to expectations. In 2018, they hit the jackpot with their deals for Raw on USA and SmackDown moving to Fox.

However, the decline has accelerated during the pandemic and it is unknown how many fans will return one day. What I do know, is that Raw is caught in a game of trying to maintain viewers rather than create new ones and that’s a dangerous one. Every year, the audience is getting older and the fumes of the Monday Night War are two decades old.

In the 18-49 demo, Raw did a 0.53 this week one year ago this week they did a 0.66 and that was going against the NBA Finals on ABC that did over eighteen million viewers. The 19.6% in the main demo is way more concerning than the overall viewership drop especially comparing to a period last year against the NBA playoffs that always kill Raw and isn’t a factor this year.
Outside of McIntyre and Asuka, nobody else Heyman was pushing managed to stick as big new stars and even then you could argue the only person he successfully made into a big new star was McIntyre since Asuka was already a pre-made star. That's partially due to Heyman himself but also due to Vince/WWE and 3 hours shows being counter-productive to building new stars unless you go all out and stick with it for the long run. The half-assed attempt by WWE wasn't going to work even with the excuse of them having a limited roster.
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Old 06-13-2020, 05:39 PM   #45
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Heyman's taste in talent is way too bland and internet-heavy to really take hold. Cedric Alexander was never going to stick with a Raw audience. Ricochet is spectacular, but he can't talk which lets him down a lot. The Viking Raiders are cheesy as fuck. There are a lot of swings and misses.
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:36 PM   #46
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The Viking Raiders were not cheesy as fuck until Vince got his hands on them. Everywhere else, including NXT, they were pushed as hard-hitting powerhouses.
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:39 PM   #47
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What a great quote this is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Post Wrestling

What I do know, is that Raw is caught in a game of trying to maintain viewers rather than create new ones and that’s a dangerous one. Every year, the audience is getting older and the fumes of the Monday Night War are two decades old.
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Old 06-13-2020, 11:41 PM   #48
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Seems another potential reason for Heyman's ouster as lead creative of RAW was due to him having a big falling out moment with AJ Styles recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WrestlingInc
AJ Styles was officially traded to SmackDown last month reportedly due to issues that he had with former RAW Executive Director Paul Heyman ...

Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter stated on the F4W message boards that Styles "was furious" over Luke Gallows and Karl Anderson being released in April. Styles reportedly blamed Heyman for their releases, even though Vince McMahon was the person who made the call. Meltzer noted that Styles probably felt that Heyman could have fought McMahon over that decision.
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Old 06-14-2020, 01:14 AM   #49
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Apparently it wasn't just Heyman that Styles had an issue with backstage on RAW.

Current rumor going around the net is most of the RAW locker room didn't like him and/or kept ridiculing him over some of his political stances on issues and conspiracy-related theories and he couldn't handle the constant banter about it.
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Old 06-14-2020, 01:53 AM   #50
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AJ is from Georgia so I'm not surprised he buys into whackadoodle conspiracy theories nor am I surprised that he can't take being made fun of over it.
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Old 06-15-2020, 10:57 AM   #51
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Old 06-15-2020, 04:18 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
It's just like the last time he fired Heyman from creative. Paul comes up with 10 ideas, fights like hell for them, and in the end Vince allows 1 or 2 watered down ones through.

Who the hell would want to work that way?
I'm amazed anyone wants to work for Vince, the guy has clearly lost his marbles, along with being the ultimate control freak it must be an insane place to work on so called "creative".
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Old 06-16-2020, 03:27 AM   #53
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The thing is, if you want to be known as a wrestler you kind of have to. Nothing else compares as a platform.
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:45 AM   #54
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Paul Heyman was always a reluctant hire. They probably felt like they didn't have a choice. I used to love Paul's shows but his version of Raw was one of the worst ever. On the flip, Raw comes out smoking after Bruce's first show. I can only imagine he will get burned out quick but we shall see. Dave and Bryan are saying WCW 2000 and perhaps rightfully so. Ninja fights are fucking awesome and that big Ninja, Giant Ninja is awesome. I wanna see a colossal tussle with Big Show and Giant Ninja (pronounced Neenja as if one were an early 90's Tony Schavonie).
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Old 06-16-2020, 12:29 PM   #55
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Of course Dave and Bryan seen WCW 2000. If AEW did the same thing, they’d talk about how brilliant it is AEW found a young prospect who is going to be a huge star and they’ve protected him by putting him under a mask so he can get more experience and work with top guys without damaging his long-term credibility. If Matt Hardy introduced him, it would be hilarious, and if Jericho introduced him, it would be an amazing callback to the Jerichoholic Ninja. That’s their bias towards AEW and against WWE, paid or not. Alvarez said recently that NXT was straight out of dying WCW with Sam Shaw “disappearing.” Has he ever said that about Matt Hardy teleporting? They’ve become unbearable on the subject.

Bruce will probably burn out. The weird hope is that he’s such a Vince sycophant and has earned enough “Brucie gets it” points, that if he sits down Vince and really stresses that this thing needs to go back to two hours and they can make up the content difference to USA other ways, then maybe Vince will take it onboard? I mean, everyone there probably already knows.

I think Heyman was very deliberate. Vince chose two guys that had run everything before. With the XFL likely to take Vince away (at the time), it made sense to put two guys that had run shows before there, as opposed to just former creative heads or whatever. But Heyman and Vince were inevitably going to clash over vision.
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Old 06-16-2020, 05:43 PM   #56
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at the possibility WWE would ever consider the idea of giving up tens of millions of dollars by getting rid of RAW's third hour.

Investors would kill Vince if that happened.

SD's 2 hours long and its been barely any good since the switch to FOX and Prichard leading things there.
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Old 06-16-2020, 06:02 PM   #57
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As a fan, I'd prefer a two-hour weekly show. The third hour kinda makes PPVs seem less special and/or like an extended episode of TV.

I get why they keep it, but as someone who has no financial stake in the company I've never been a fan of three-hour RAW as a regular thing.
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Old 06-16-2020, 06:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
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at the possibility WWE would ever consider the idea of giving up tens of millions of dollars by getting rid of RAW's third hour.

Investors would kill Vince if that happened.

SD's 2 hours long and its been barely any good since the switch to FOX and Prichard leading things there.
The smart response would have been to point out that the third hour is specifically the one they want, and Raw smokes anything else in that slot, and no one is really that worried about it. That being said, a case could be made that USA getting two hours another night might be better off for them and WWE’s overall popularity, as would simply be dropping the third hour. Increased ratings and ad revenue, as well as a potential boost for NXT could be enough to offset that third hour, specifically, meaning there might even be a way to keep the $265 million deal and get rid of the hour, either in exchange for something else or sharper results.

Investors don’t care about whether there is a third hour there or not. They care about WWE’s bottom-line.

The biggest reason to do it would be to improve other metrics. Live attendance, merchandising, Network subscriptions, etc. If you make more long-term fans over time and make more than the money you’d lose (which may not even be an unnecessary step should you even just move the third hour to Peacock or something), then it’s probably worth it.

Get someone other than Meltzer to think for you.
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Old 06-16-2020, 06:06 PM   #59
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As a fan, I'd prefer a two-hour weekly show. The third hour kinda makes PPVs seem less special and/or like an extended episode of TV.

I get why they keep it, but as someone who has no financial stake in the company I've never been a fan of three-hour RAW as a regular thing.
It does devalue PPVs. I think that’s been an understated thing. They either go as long or longer than the “special shows” or they have to make PPVs longer and more exhausting.

It might be too late to get much back from a change, but it wouldn’t be any worse. If there’s a way to talk USA around to launching different original content (even a Saturday morning studio show...or late night more adult show), there’s definite value in making the move.

I think the most obvious idea is to do a unique show for Peacock. Take the hit with USA and drive up numbers on Raw and NXT. Then have a separate entity that exists on streaming services to try and make yourself valuable there.
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Old 06-16-2020, 06:20 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
The smart response would have been to point out that the third hour is specifically the one they want, and Raw smokes anything else in that slot, and no one is really that worried about it. That being said, a case could be made that USA getting two hours another night might be better off for them and WWE’s overall popularity, as would simply be dropping the third hour. Increased ratings and ad revenue, as well as a potential boost for NXT could be enough to offset that third hour, specifically, meaning there might even be a way to keep the $265 million deal and get rid of the hour, either in exchange for something else or sharper results.

Investors don’t care about whether there is a third hour there or not. They care about WWE’s bottom-line.

The biggest reason to do it would be to improve other metrics. Live attendance, merchandising, Network subscriptions, etc. If you make more long-term fans over time and make more than the money you’d lose (which may not even be an unnecessary step should you even just move the third hour to Peacock or something), then it’s probably worth it.

Get someone other than Meltzer to think for you.
8PM & 9PM are the two hours they would want, not the 10PM since those are the more valuable primetime hours.

If it was as easy as dropping the 3rd hour and making up the money difference elsewhere, USA and WWE would have done that by now. Instead neither wants to for ratings and money reasons.

Investors care a lot about that third hour since under the old tv deal, it was bringing in around the same to more per year than what WWE is currently getting from their NXT tv deal. Now, it dwarfs what they were getting before from it.

Nice to assume all I do is listen to Meltzer you utter wank of a poster.
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Old 06-16-2020, 07:52 PM   #61
Mr. Nerfect
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
8PM & 9PM are the two hours they would want, not the 10PM since those are the more valuable primetime hours.

If it was as easy as dropping the 3rd hour and making up the money difference elsewhere, USA and WWE would have done that by now. Instead neither wants to for ratings and money reasons.

Investors care a lot about that third hour since under the old tv deal, it was bringing in around the same to more per year than what WWE is currently getting from their NXT tv deal. Now, it dwarfs what they were getting before from it.

Nice to assume all I do is listen to Meltzer you utter wank of a poster.
You said nothing no one doesn't know in this post. It was all already addressed. There are plenty of reasons they wouldn't have already done it. Simplicity, stubbornness, arrogance, determination and convenience among them. It doesn't mean a solution is impossible, nor is one ultimately undesirable, especially if someone who has Vince's trust and can apparently do well in the slot comes around and says "This is actually impossible and you've gotten away with it for eight years, it's time to work out something else to get fans back."

As I've already said, ironing out required viewing hours could increase the value of not only Raw, but NXT, as well as potentially redirecting content to other platforms that have value to NBC Universal. It could increase the value of the NXT deal as well as a potential Peacock deal or create another hour outside that 10pm slot or two where WWE content boosts the overall standing of USA, even if it means taking a hit on Monday night.

Investors care about the bottom-line. Fuck, I can basically repeat everything I said. If Vince worked out something where the $265 million per year deal stayed in place, but they could redirect the third hour or could somehow guarantee better ratings for both Raw and NXT so USA can charge more for ad space, then investors aren't going to give one flying fuck that Raw goes down from three hours to two hours. They probably wouldn't even care if Raw took a $65 million per year hit if they found another way to recoup it -- announcing international shows, a new show, effective cost-cutting, etc. Especially if it all occurred at the same time and meant they were making more of a profit than ever before.
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