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Old 08-01-2020, 10:17 PM   #41
James Steele
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DDP should have ended the streak at Starrcade. He came close at Halloween Havoc. He wins the WW3 battle royal, and goes on to Starrcade to finally win the world title. They waited til Spring Stampede 99 and it was too little too late.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:19 PM   #42
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not a draw. its as plain as the sun is bright. British liked him. Canadians liked him. india oddly liked him. no other markets responded to bret. thats an issue if youre an american company. as vinces gate shrank turners gate grew. this isnt a coincidence.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:40 PM   #43
Baron Von Gertner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Will do.

Only book I've ever read before on WCW's rise and fall was the one from Bryan Alvarez called The Death of WCW.
Love that book

I can send you my copy for free if you want it. I have no more use for it.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:58 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Baron Von Gertner View Post
Their developmental system was fucking awful which didn't help matters.
One of my favorite fantasy scenarios is one where somehow Steve Austin is forced out of the WWF. It goes something like Hogan wants too much money from Turner, someone with foresight sees him at Starrcade '97 and thinks "Okay, we can't trust him," and Hogan jumps to the WWF in early 1998. HBK and Hogan conspire to get Hogan the top spot at Mania to keep Austin on the burner for whatever reason ("the neck won't hold, brother -- I'll drop it to him at SummerSlam if he's over"). Hogan gets the Tyson spot and Austin gets pissed off, decides to jump, and he takes JR with him. Michael Cole gets the Raw seat. Jim Ross scouts talent for WCW, and it's them who get Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle. Maybe Jim Cornette gets pissed off at how the WWF is run, still goes home to Louisville and works out something between OVW and WCW. Perhaps something happens in Canada and they get two developmental territories going?

Anyway, that's not very realistic, but the idea of Goldberg winning the WCW World Title at Starrcade '98 and Austin getting his big win against Bret Hart with JR on the call kind of gives me this weird parallel universe stiffy.

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Originally Posted by Destor View Post
hogan should have been building to him v nash. maybe a wolf pack v nwo war games along the way
When it comes to the main event picture, the simplest stuff is sometimes the best. This is probably the obvious way to go.

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not a draw. its as plain as the sun is bright. British liked him. Canadians liked him. india oddly liked him. no other markets responded to bret. thats an issue if youre an american company. as vinces gate shrank turners gate grew. this isnt a coincidence.
To be fair, WCW growing a gate and Bret Hart not sustaining one don't need to be causally linked to one another. WCW can be independently hot without Bret letting the team down.
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:19 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
they nearly went out of business while bret was on top. they had to stop doing stadiums while bret was on top.
They were nearly going out of business from 1996-1997, Bret was the top babyface starting in late 92, early 93. By 96 Bret was no longer the top babyface as he was starting his slow build to a heel turn that started by protesting his loss at Mania 12 and culminated at 13 against Austin.

Bret was the champ when they launched Raw.

I'm not saying Bret was a mega draw, and I'm not talking about his WCW run. But it is factually incorrect to say he wasn't a draw at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
To be fair, WCW growing a gate and Bret Hart not sustaining one don't need to be causally linked to one another. WCW can be independently hot without Bret letting the team down.
WCW did not turn a profit until 1995, some 3 years after Bret first won the WWE title. That would be like blaming Austin for the business going down in 2004.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:29 AM   #46
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Business didn't start going downhill when Bret was champion. The bloom was long off the rose, and Hogan left WWF in the lurch, big time. There was pretty much no one, other than Bret (until Shawn), who could have possibly taken the mantle, as proven by Diesel tanking as champ in 1995. Shawn didn't do so well, either.

It's absolutely fucking idiotic to say "don't push Bret," given there was nobody else. What? You going to give Mabel the belt? All you could really do at that time was hold fort. You could argue Taker, but they did a lot to damage his character in those years.

It took until Austin for things to turn around. A guy that Bret helped make. Not to say there's no Austin without Bret--but Steve himself credits Bret for his development and finding himself as a character.

Then, when Bret turned up in WCW, he was hot. They actively chose not to do anything with him. Should he have been the flagship of the show? Probably not. But they could have used him as a more integral facet, as opposed to just another guy.

For a guy who shits on "stats" all the time, Destor is more than happy to use them as confirmation bias.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:32 AM   #47
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I'd concede that Nash could have drawn as champ if they let him be more of an anti-hero. I'll accept that argument. That's pure speculation though.

But he seemed to be a significant part of WCW's downfall in 98, as much as he helped them take over in 96 and 97.
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