Meltzer reports ESPN + likely the new home for WWE PPVs (Update Pg. 2)

[Droford]

I can't see WWE coexisting with UFC and Boxing on ESPN+

[Sepholio]

That's how I used to watch PPVs back in the day. There was a bar on base that would let you go in as long as you were 14, just some pool tables and a bunch of TVs, had a bar if u were old enough, and had a pizza place and a chicken place inside the same building. 4 dollar cover to get in for PPVs lol. Was the best.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 I just don't see people going back to paying $50-$60 for a PPV. I did once for AEW with Double or Nothing, mostly cause it was before they had an actual show, but that was a special case. I think WWE thinks if we pay for the Network, we would be willing to pay full price for PPVs. The truth though is prior to the Network, the last PPV I paid for was Wrestlemania 18. I'd rather pay a $5 cover and go watch the PPV at Buffalo Wild Wings if it is absolutely can't miss, but when is the last time there was really a can't miss PPV? The truth is I think most people will just wait until Raw to hear the results of the PPV for free, and maybe skim through it once it is available for replay whenever down the line that may be. It's what I did from 2002-2014, and I certainly didn't enjoy it any less.

People can be manipulated relatively easily. They often get conditioned to believe that something is worth what they’re charged for it. When it comes to this, I’m reminded of Vince upping PPV prices in 1997. Even with Bischoff mocking the WWF publicly for this, the move was successful.

[Jordan]

I will pay for $60 Wrestlemania but not every PPV. And they'd have to be really good otherwise I'd just "find a stream".

[xrodmuc316]

Originally Posted by Jordan X I will pay for $60 Wrestlemania but not every PPV. And they'd have to be really good otherwise I'd just "find a stream".

Seems silly in this day and age with everything streaming, but you could just buy the DVD of the PPV when it comes out for $15-$20. That saves you $40 and you can watch it more than once.

[xrodmuc316]

I also think it has the potential to backfire badly.

WWE's product has kind of hit rock bottom ratings wise, and have been fairly steady since. The Network subscribers make up about 75% of Raw's ratings (2 rating with 1.5 million subscribers).

How many are going to be unwilling to pay an extra $50 just to keep watching PPVs? How many are going to stop watching the weekly shows if they are not going to have access to the PPVs that are the payoff for following Raw, Smackdown, etc.?

WWE may earn more on a few individual PPVs, but certainly not all of them. Whatever gains they may get won't balance out the losses everywhere else.

[teamXtremist]

Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 I also think it has the potential to backfire badly. WWE's product has kind of hit rock bottom ratings wise, and have been fairly steady since. The Network subscribers make up about 75% of Raw's ratings (2 rating with 1.5 million subscribers). How many are going to be unwilling to pay an extra $50 just to keep watching PPVs? How many are going to stop watching the weekly shows if they are not going to have access to the PPVs that are the payoff for following Raw, Smackdown, etc.? WWE may earn more on a few individual PPVs, but certainly not all of them. Whatever gains they may get won't balance out the losses everywhere else.

This! I get wwe is losing money on wm's over the years but nobody is paying $50 bucks for wwe ppv's in 2020. Their product is at an alltime low in interest and quality. Wwe figured the network would take off and they could recoop the money but now the network has gone from 2 mil to 1.4 viewers. Unless them charging more money will result in a better product overall which i doubt ,then theres no point for any wwe fan to want or support this non sense.

[Sepholio]

Yo man you got any of them free streams maaaaaan?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I guarantee you people will order these shows. Especially big ones like the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania.

[teamXtremist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect I guarantee you people will order these shows. Especially big ones like the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania.

Of course people will they're idiots but the other 7/8 ppvs def wont be worth the asking price ,
unless wwe drastically lowers the ppv price,which they could

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by teamXtremist Of course people will they're idiots

Yep.

[Droford]

Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 Seems silly in this day and age with everything streaming, but you could just buy the DVD of the PPV when it comes out for $15-$20. That saves you $40 and you can watch it more than once.

They don't even release blu rays anymore

[slik]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect I guarantee you people will order these shows. Especially big ones like the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania.

I said I would pay for RR and WM if they were 60 bucks.

Any other show I won't pay more than I do right now.

[erickman]

Originally Posted by teamXtremist Of course people will they're idiots but the other 7/8 ppvs def wont be worth the asking price , unless wwe drastically lowers the ppv price,which they could

if the bars shows them again, might be worth 10 bucks cover drink beer and eat wings. for the crap ppvs

[teamXtremist]

Originally Posted by erickman if the bars shows them again, might be worth 10 bucks cover drink beer and eat wings. for the crap ppvs

Yea i lived in bars on sundays in the early to mid 2000's paying 7 bucks to get drunk and watch wrestling.i just wish i had the same passion for wrestling i did nearly 20 years ago

[xrodmuc316]

Originally Posted by teamXtremist This! I get wwe is losing money on wm's over the years but nobody is paying $50 bucks for wwe ppv's in 2020. Their product is at an alltime low in interest and quality. Wwe figured the network would take off and they could recoop the money but now the network has gone from 2 mil to 1.4 viewers. Unless them charging more money will result in a better product overall which i doubt ,then theres no point for any wwe fan to want or support this non sense.

Exactly right. Just to simplify let's say 1.5 million paid subscribers at $10 a month vs $50 for a monthly PPV.

To make the same money they would need a buyrate of 300,000.

Mania, Rumble, and Summerslam get that historically.

Survivor Series has in the past, and could with a great card.

The other 8 though, before the Network those all were struggling to get even 200,000 buys. So that is 8 months WWE just pissed away 33% of their earnings.

Now unsimplifying it, WWE stated numerous times that they get a much bigger piece of the renevue, 85% of the Network over 50% of traditional PVP buys.

85% of $15 million (1.5 million subscribers) would be $12.75 million a month.
To get the same $12.75 million at $25 (half of the $50 for the ppv) they are looking at needing 510,000 buys.

If the 8 B show PPVs were actually to return to the 200,000 range, WWE would bank $5 million per show.

They would be losing $7.75 million 8 times, a total of $62 million for the year.

To offset that loss, the big 4 PPVs would each need to generate an extra $15.5 million above the $12.75 million, which at $25 (half of the $50 for the ppv) would mean an additional 620,000 buys on top of the break even 510,000 buys previously mentioned.

1,130,000 buys. WWE has done this twice, ever.

WrestleMania 23 (1,200,000 Buys)
WrestleMania 18 (1,217,000 Buys)

The only way WWE comes out ahead on this is by getting a guarantee from ESPN+ or whoever that just buys the PPV rights for a flat fee so high, say $25 million per, that ESPN would be taking the loss each month when they can't get people to buy the PPVs.

Math Bitches!

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 Exactly right. Just to simplify let's say 1.5 million paid subscribers at $10 a month vs $50 for a monthly PPV. To make the same money they would need a buyrate of 300,000. Mania, Rumble, and Summerslam get that historically. Survivor Series has in the past, and could with a great card. The other 8 though, before the Network those all were struggling to get even 200,000 buys. So that is 8 months WWE just pissed away 33% of their earnings. Now unsimplifying it, WWE stated numerous times that they get a much bigger piece of the renevue, 85% of the Network over 50% of traditional PVP buys. 85% of $15 million (1.5 million subscribers) would be $12.75 million a month. To get the same $12.75 million at $25 (half of the $50 for the ppv) they are looking at needing 510,000 buys. If the 8 B show PPVs were actually to return to the 200,000 range, WWE would bank $5 million per show. They would be losing $7.75 million 8 times, a total of $62 million for the year. To offset that loss, the big 4 PPVs would each need to generate an extra $15.5 million above the $12.75 million, which at $25 (half of the $50 for the ppv) would mean an additional 620,000 buys on top of the break even 510,000 buys previously mentioned. 1,130,000 buys. WWE has done this twice, ever. WrestleMania 23 (1,200,000 Buys) WrestleMania 18 (1,217,000 Buys) The only way WWE comes out ahead on this is by getting a guarantee from ESPN+ or whoever that just buys the PPV rights for a flat fee so high, say $25 million per, that ESPN would be taking the loss each month when they can't get people to buy the PPVs. Math Bitches!

Great post, thanks!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by Slik I said I would pay for RR and WM if they were 60 bucks. Any other show I won't pay more than I do right now.

I think that’s fair. I can imagine them only putting a few landmark PPVs at a price. Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, Money in the Bank (since people seem to still be marks for the match), SummerSlam and Survivor Series (which could be Taker’s retirement this year). I imagine the others will all be either free, on the WWE Network or sold for chips. It might encourage them to make more of an effort.

I’m hoping that they put out a one-hour more adult show on ESPN+ to give them some original programming. Could be something like what Shotgun Saturday Night was originally scheduled to be.