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Old 10-06-2021, 05:20 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Casual fans definitely exist. Wrestling fans who donít like current wrestling definitely exist. A huge audience is going largely ignored. There are people who will occasionally give this shit a chance, or would if it were actually entertaining and not some arcane lore.
casuals absolutely exists and the contrary is so absurd it doesnt warrant any effort to explain the notion away.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:21 PM   #42
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and more importantly nonfans obviously exist so even if a casual werent a thing its a completely moot topic in of itself
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Lord Gertner of TPWW View Post
If it wasn't Vince someone else would have. Probably Bill Watts. Look at how Pro Wrestling USA and SuperClash turned out. These promoters would have cut each other's throat.
what vince did was a logical lateral move...for a highly educated buisness man. his contemporaries certainly lacked the forsight and acumen to do what he did and any would be rivals with a similar vision had the road block of both not having the necessary knowledge to operate are carny operation or even an entry to it and then the issue is magnified by the fact that no outsider could see the potential in the medium.

vince sat in a position so unique that i think it could have been another century before some had not only the idea but the means to do what he did.

could others have? maybe. but vince was in a miracle position with a miracle idea and while its certainly super cool to shit on him he remains the single most inportant figure im wrestling history and it serves no one to pretend otherwise.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:31 PM   #44
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and again i could write fpr days on how his actions traded an industry of middle class jobs into a handful of guys making true wealth; which is to say not everything he did worked out great for everyone but he clearly deserves a huge ammount of credit for what it was he did do.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:36 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
what vince did was a logical lateral move...for a highly educated buisness man. his contemporaries certainly lacked the forsight and acumen to do what he did and any would be rivals with a similar vision had the road block of both not having the necessary knowledge to operate are carny operation or even an entry to it and then the issue is magnified by the fact that no outsider could see the potential in the medium.

vince sat in a position so unique that i think it could have been another century before some had not only the idea but the means to do what he did.

could others have? maybe. but vince was in a miracle position with a miracle idea and while its certainly super cool to shit on him he remains the single most inportant figure im wrestling history and it serves no one to pretend otherwise.

It also helped having that idea in the biggest "attraction" city in the U.S.A in New York.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:37 PM   #46
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absolutely valid. it was a perfect storm on a scale so grand youd struggle to call it anyrhing other than destiny
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:44 PM   #47
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imagine for instance if vince sr had been an nwa affiliate and vince was raised with respect for the institution. would a national conglomerate emerged out of new york? i think possibly no. theres a myriad of subtle details that conspired to allow this powder keg to explode. remove any single aspect and its completely plausible it never happens and certainly plausible its greatly delayed.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:46 PM   #48
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its not like this wrestling renaissance was organically occuring globally across all the pockets of wrestling sub cultures. it was one place at one time. even with the blue print its been EXCEEDINGLY difficult to mirror.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:47 PM   #49
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whether or not it was a good thing...well thats another topic. same for bischoff and his efforts
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:49 PM   #50
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my point is its not obvious this was inevitable and its not reasonable to say it was simple.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:03 PM   #51
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Quote:
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NXT never needed to treat AEW like a threat. Not really.
They didn't and that entire narrative came from AEW. They still say that trash. AEW Manufactured that whole gimmick that big bad WWE was trying to hurt them. It goes back all the way to the beginning, and it was a false narrative.

NXT aired on Wednesdays always. Guys like Jericho and Cody were actually on NXT shows that aired Wednesday nights. NXT didn't switch nights to hurt AEW, in fact once the TV deals were signed and they announced Smackdown was going to Friday nights, what did ARE do? They trademarked Tuesday Night Dynamite. The plan was for AEW to try and replace wrestling on Tuesdays in the void Smackdown left.

Now we know that's not what ended up happening, then got a TNT deal for Wednesdays. AEW ending up on Wednesdays is not the same as WWE purposefully trying to hurt them.

They also try to spin it as well NXT only went on TV to hurt Dynamite instead of just staying on the WWE Network. This is another false narrative. NXT got a TV deal because USA replaced 2 hours of Smackdown with 2 hours of NXT for 1/5th of the coat. NXT airs on TV because Vince could make money off it. To believe it the way AEW spins it, Vince can just make any cable network give him money and airtime whenever he wants. That is NOT how it works.

Another big one AEW like a to preach is creative freedom and unscripted promos. Evil WWE makes its wrestlers read scripts, AEW doesn't do that. Except come to find out, they fucking do. Rhodes to the Top blew.That myth completely away showing Cody going over exactly how Ricky Starks needed to deliver his scripted fucking promo. Are we to believe Ricky Starks is the only guy that has to follow a script? Of course not.

I've said it for years, it is all a gimmick. Part of getting that AEW contract is they are contractually obligated to spin the narrative, the facade, that AEW is such a freeing and delightful place to work, and that other place is old and bad. It's why JR once on his podcast slipped up and said he thought Randy Orton was the best wrestler, and since then every time he is on Commentary he HAS to add in that Kenny Omega is the best. Randy Orton being the best can't possibly be true since he works at that old and bad fed.

AEW has done some great things, but there is a reason they lose all the fans they gained with their flashbang moments in relatively quick fashion. It's because they are have some great wrestling moments that occur in a parody wrestling company. The whole wink wink mentality that lends to them all knowingly living this one gimmick that AEW is so much bigger and grander than it actually is, to the point that non die-hard fans see right through that bullshit, and move on after sampling here and there.

Until they stop trying to pull the wool over people's eyes and stop placating to the Marks that are all in on that narrative, they will continue driving fans away. The hardcores at Double or Nothing booed, BOOOOOOOOED, Danielson because he didnt cut a "Fed Bad" promo. One of the most universally loved wrestlers in the world, and they were pissed he didn't follow the prescribed narrative they have all bought into.

It's why they need to do more than just present the gimmick that they are the greatest thing ever, because only the people who want that to be true will ever actually believe it.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:24 PM   #52
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Ricky Starks was getting coached because he was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs to be cutting that promo, can I get a hell yeah?

Some talents may need more scripted angles, but others don't. Starks was shown during some pretty vulnerable moments on that show. But truth is and I know it hurts, Rhodes to the Top is the best wrestling reality show since Hogan Know's Best, and that's a shoot, Jack.

And brother, let me tell you one more thing Jack. WWE is just like that 800lbs STINKING Giant that once got lifted so high a slammed to the mat. It's old, immobile and LONG DEAD my man, ahahahahahaha!
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:35 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Ricky Starks was getting coached because he was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs to be cutting that promo, can I get a hell yeah?

Some talents may need more scripted angles, but others don't. Starks was shown during some pretty vulnerable moments on that show. But truth is and I know it hurts, Rhodes to the Top is the best wrestling reality show since Hogan Know's Best, and that's a shoot, Jack.

And brother, let me tell you one more thing Jack. WWE is just like that 800lbs STINKING Giant that once got lifted so high a slammed to the mat. It's old, immobile and LONG DEAD my man, ahahahahahaha!
I have no problem with it other than them constantly crowing about how they dont use scripted promos.because they are good, unlike WWE who does and is bad.

If they didn't act like smug assholes Barry Horowitzing themselves on the back constantly for not using scripted promos, I wouldn't care that Ricky Starks had a scripted promo. For me at least, it's that simple. They can either not tell the lie, or they can not expose the lie.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:43 PM   #54
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i dont think its reasonable to say they've lied in this instance. you have a guy who's struggling with a promo. you help him by giving him a detailed plan of action in a 1 on 1 setting. this is not the same as having a company wide edict where no one has a voice of their own. this isnt a guy who's begging to speak and being shut out.

i think you're caught up in the letter of the law and youve lost the spirit of it.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:45 PM   #55
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scripted promos arent the issue theyre a symptom
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:00 PM   #56
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Quote:
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i dont think its reasonable to say they've lied in this instance. you have a guy who's struggling with a promo. you help him by giving him a detailed plan of action in a 1 on 1 setting. this is not the same as having a company wide edict where no one has a voice of their own. this isnt a guy who's begging to speak and being shut out.

i think you're caught up in the letter of the law and youve lost the spirit of it.
Yeah you are mostly right. I don't have a problem with it fundamentally, but when I saw that my reaction was "come on". They are surely the producers of that show, that can't make the final cut after making that a big selling point for so long. My reaction was based off them selling it as something different this whole time.
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:01 PM   #57
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their propaganda has lacked nuance for sure
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:15 PM   #58
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There will be no new boom period until all wrestling companies and brands embrace wrestlers wearing capes to the ring

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Old 10-06-2021, 07:18 PM   #59
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#ElGenerico4worldcamp
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:25 PM   #60
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It's time for the Baron Von Raschke comeback we've all been waiting for.
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:34 PM   #61
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:38 PM   #62
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Old 10-07-2021, 03:08 AM   #63
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They didn't and that entire narrative came from AEW.
This is true.
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