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Old 07-18-2021, 08:26 PM   #5321
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Actually fuck it, I'm gonna reply to the guy and tell him that.
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:55 PM   #5322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
“Rage cultist mode”, he says.
His reply was far more visceral than the nerdy guy pointing out obscure but true facts.
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Old 07-18-2021, 09:12 PM   #5323
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How is it a big leap dave?

Be a man and discuss it here, not in rep messages.
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:38 PM   #5324
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No amount of pansy ass forbidden doors will ever top tonight's main event. This is how you do a PPV title match.
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Old 07-19-2021, 01:16 AM   #5325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
How is it a big leap dave?

Be a man and discuss it here, not in rep messages.
I've got nothing, Fignuts. Was trying to spur some drama and immediately lost interest. Sorry.
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Old 07-19-2021, 09:57 AM   #5326
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His intentions could have been more innocent but that “MUST COMBAT THIS POSITIVE AEW POST” thing is rampant on Twitter and that would fall right in line with it.

And when I say “freak out” when referring to them, it’s less about a use of all caps or angry language and more about the vibe that comes with the desperate need to shut down any and all positive AEW references. You can practically see the veins popping out in their head as they type as fast as they can do that this pro-AEW comment isn’t seen by one more person without their petty rebuttal.

Xrod may have tried to be subtle with his response to that tweet. It was really just a chance for him to clarify that the first guy WAS in fact lying by saying Britt Baker never had a run in WWE. Lol
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:07 AM   #5327
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Anyone who loves and obsesses over anything, whether it's wrestling, cars, sports, etc, and sees a false statement about it, is going to have an almost uncontrollable urge to correct it. It's practically human nature. There's not necessarily a bias attached to it.

Also a quick skim of the guy's Twitter tells me that while he is mainly a wwe fan, he is fairly objective and unafraid to criticize them. And when he does mention aew, it's mostly positive.

Guy just likes what he likes, and makes no attempt to drag down the stuff he's not into. Far cry from the "aew hater" he's being made out to be. Actually seems like a pretty nice guy. I might follow him.
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:16 AM   #5328
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Pffft, y'all stop liking stuff over there without permission from the fun Gods k?


Thanks,


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Old 07-19-2021, 10:46 AM   #5329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
His intentions could have been more innocent but that “MUST COMBAT THIS POSITIVE AEW POST” thing is rampant on Twitter and that would fall right in line with it.

And when I say “freak out” when referring to them, it’s less about a use of all caps or angry language and more about the vibe that comes with the desperate need to shut down any and all positive AEW references. You can practically see the veins popping out in their head as they type as fast as they can do that this pro-AEW comment isn’t seen by one more person without their petty rebuttal.

Xrod may have tried to be subtle with his response to that tweet. It was really just a chance for him to clarify that the first guy WAS in fact lying by saying Britt Baker never had a run in WWE. Lol
Sean Ross Sapp, of fightful.com, who covers wrestling professionally, should be corrected if he incorrectly post something. He should know the history of the subject matter he is posting about. The guy did it the right way, was respectful, even if it comes across as a nerdy stat knowing guy.

Just because it was a Positive Pro AEW post, doesn't mean that incorrect information has to be taken as gospel. I said Sean Ross Sapp is lying because I would like to think somebody who covers wrestling would know about wrestling. That is not Pro or Anti any promotion, and certainly nothing that should cause anybody distress.
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:48 AM   #5330
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So you don’t find the “correction” trivial then?
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:51 AM   #5331
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Arguing about it for so many posts is trivial for sure
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:58 AM   #5332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
So you don’t find the “correction” trivial then?
I think it is trivial, yes. I just don't think it was done to discredit a Pro AEW tweet. To me it was just a guy adding to the topic by including his knowledge of wrestling.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:01 AM   #5333
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For everyone who does it better, they should just put their money where their... keystrokes (lol) are and DO it better. Shit better be infallible, 100% of the time too.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:02 AM   #5334
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So he should have been “corrected” but also it was trivial to do so. Got it.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:03 AM   #5335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Arguing about it for so many posts is trivial for sure
Just wait until we get into what constitutes a “run”!
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:04 AM   #5336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
So you don’t find the “correction” trivial then?
Of course it's trivial. I'm not arguing against that. I'm arguing that it's not indicative of hate for aew or love of WWE, but rather just being a nerd about facts on a subject they care about.

And I'm not saying that people you describe don't exist because they absolutely do. I'm just saying people shouldn't jump to conclusions and make assumptions.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:07 AM   #5337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
So he should have been “corrected” but also it was trivial to do so. Got it.
If something false is stated as fact, it should always be corrected, no matter how trivial it is.

Or else the heathens win.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:08 AM   #5338
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That was directed toward Xrod who seems to find it trivial and also necessary.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:09 AM   #5339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Arguing about it for so many posts is trivial for sure
90% of the posts on this forum are trivial. Who cares?
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:12 AM   #5340
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The entire REASON it’s trivial is because it’s a stretch to consider it a lie and ultimately his point remains the same.

And that’s where we get into what a true “run” is, which is where shit gets super fun.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:16 AM   #5341
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(I was kidding about that last part. I’m not going to argue what a “run” consists of. If Sean Whatshisname doesn’t consider a couple developmental jobber appearances a “run” though, I don’t think he’s a liar. Call me crazy.)
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:33 AM   #5342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
The entire REASON it’s trivial is because it’s a stretch to consider it a lie and ultimately his point remains the same.

And that’s where we get into what a true “run” is, which is where shit gets super fun.
I don't care about any of that. You can argue that it's trivial, or even that he's wrong in that it doesn't count as a run.

I just don't like labels being put on people based on assumptions. Especially when it takes very little effort to see what kind of person they are, and get a better idea of their post's intentions.
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Old 07-19-2021, 01:14 PM   #5343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
That was directed toward Xrod who seems to find it trivial and also necessary.
I never said it was necessary, I said it was trivial in my first post about it. My initial thinking was the 3rd tweet could be bothered by either the little lie or the needing to point out such a little lie, both of which were occurrences so small that they did not warrant such an angry tweet from the 3rd guy.

In this case you introduced the idea that the guy pointing out the technicality was only doing so to rally against AEW. I think he just did it because he wanted to point out something he knew.

Nothing in his post was bashing, or trying to disparage anything.

That said, a professional reporter should be corrected because he is a professional reporter, regardless of the subject matter.

I know that sounds the same as "necessary" in this specific case, but that is me making a blanket statement. If a reporter reports Joe Biden never ran for President until 2020, and somebody pointed out that he was in the 1988 Democratic primary, a 3rd tweet belittling the 2nd tweet as an anti Democrat/pro Republican would be just as absurd as getting mad at this guy pointing out Britt Baker's history.
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Old 07-20-2021, 12:57 AM   #5344
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Quote:
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I’m asking what you think they should be doing to grow their audience.
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I like AEW but I’m definitely not above criticizing it. But in a time where literally almost every business is stalled because of a global pandemic, I don’t think it’s fair to criticize them for not growing beyond their current fanbase.
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Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
If in 3-6 months they’re still where they are, then I will totally agree with you.
At least you're talking like you got sense instead of coming at me out of some emotional haze:

I realize that a lot of what I'm going to say will come off as "Cornette-ish", and part of that is because even with expletive filled tirades, he is often more concise in how I feel about shit, and takes about two sentences and a smartass joke in what I would cover in about a paragraph and a half just to get to the same juncture. I will try to hit the more evergreen points and not jump on anyone in particular, but the focus of the endeavor as a whole from watching.

The first problem is the juxtaposition of what they intitally promised: "a sports based presentation", and what we get is consistent high spots and people cutting each other off in promos. It's similar to when TNA started, and they essentially assumed all the "lapsed fans" disillusioned with WWE and that stopped watching after WCW folded would migrate back, but consistently did shit to make themselves WWE-lite... except here, AEW is catering to fans who are already watching. They were already on the boat when Bullet Club was huge. They were habit watching WWE. They were super into what was going down in NJPW and RoH and MLW and AAA and even NWA, if you can find it.

Second, they try to cram too much into that time. It's like they try to feature as many people as they can, and all those guys have to "get their shit in". On top of that, they veer too heavy into the words of Cody Rhodes ("tired old tropes") with faces and heels supposedly not being a thing (super ironic with stuff like the recent white suit/black suit vs Tommy End)... so most of the roster are supposed to be tweeners? In his short career, Will Hobbs has already given Big Show a run for his money with changing sides.

People killed WWE for YEARS with their steer towards 50/50 booking, but yet everyone in AEW is "competitive" from curtain jerking nobody to EVP to recent WWE castoff acquisition. There is no real visual heirichy. Let me pull an example from WCW for what I mean by this - I used to hate Konnan back then. I had zero idea about the Max Moon shit or that he was essentially Mexican Hulk Hogan before that. And for the sake of my statement, I will omit the part where his whole "stereotypical 90's gangbanger" gimmick rubbed me the wrong way. Different issue for a different day.... WCW consistently presented him as jobber to the *real* stars, and he only got wins over the other jobbers on WorldWide. What made it worse was that he'd promo, and his talking ability is great, but he'd do nothing but talk shit, and it usually came before he got his ass kicked. Nearly every time he got on the mic, he was about to get beat up or run away; not even cheat to win or doing something to get heat. So the perception was that he was just some shithead coward who couldn't back up what he said in any way and was only marginally better than Jerry Flynn or Roadblock. This is how AEW presents nearly their entire roster. The stars are only marginally better than the not-stars. Unless you're one of the EVPs, of course.

They run angles where they *need* you to watch clips on YouTube to get what's going on, or even who somebody is sometimes. The internet is a powerful tool, but in the case of a television show, you shouldn't need an auxiliary compendium to know what is going on half the time. [addendum: It's kinda like when Destiny first came out: the game had very little in the way of in-game lore - you had to go to Bungie's website and read shit outside of playing. You shouldn't have to stop playing the game to go read a blog about the game you're playing to understand what's happening in that game... same with AEW. You shouldn't have to watch YouTube clips. That content should be included on the show you're already watching.] This is similar to WWE's Hulu version of RAW, where there's shit missing from the program in the supposed interest of time. Cutting entrances and pageantry is one thing, but editing promos, shortening matches, and completely cutting segments from the broadcast doesn't provide continuity. Same with AEW. It's one thing to chuckle at in inside joke from BTE that is on the show because you're a fan and you watch both, but quite another to not know person X is feuding with person Y because they spilled grape juice on them in one of the sketches. Or that spilled grape juice is a big enough of incentive to have a barbwire deathmatch next week on Dynamite. WWE *used* to subscribe to the notion of "every show is someone's first time". Even they moved away from that, and everyone else seemed to follow suit. Now everyone's attitude is more like "IYKYK". And if anyone had to look that up, that should illustrate my point here perfectly.

That leads to what you have in the way of a "build" for feuds. They start with "big" matches with stipulations, and work their way down to a regular 3 count bout. Adding to that frustration, they want to jizz out everything at once. Something that could be padded and planned and teased and executed to draw people in and make folks care over the course of about four months takes place in the span of like three shows. It's like they don't want to let shit breathe because they're afraid folks have short attention spans and will wander off elsewhere... which ironically means they cater to people with short attention spans that will wander off elsewhere if they don't have people diving through the ropes in every match or everyone powering through 800 finishers that should end a match or having a backstage fight and/or segment that breaks down into chaos pretty much every week.

I know I said I didn't want to single anyone out, but a great encapsulation is one Orange Cassidy. Whether you think he is awesome or stupid, the overall issue is that his ENTIRE gimmick is one big in-joke. Be it fans that actually like him or like him ironically, it wasn't like he tapped into some intangible charisma like a Darby Allin, or when Adam Page was doing "Cowboy Shit!" to the adoration of crowds... he's just doing a thing that's "funny" to people who already find it "funny". And if you were sitting in a room watching AEW and someone who has never watched or hasn't watched wrestling in years came in while you were watching him go through is sloth routine and effortless shin kicks with zero context (like context was ever given to begin with), do you *really* think that will draw this potential new viewer in? If your answer is yes, you have either been living in the same vacuum they live in themselves or you just want to be contrarian and not admit that they aren't nearly as perfect a production as they seem to think they are.

The first step towards improving ANYTHING though is to stop pretending that it doesn't need improvement. People saying "it's good" doesn't mean that it can't be better. Even by a little bit. Like I said originally, fans aren't going to hijack AEW because they're already filling the desires of the audience they already have had since the original ALL IN event. While WWE is trying to present itself as some sort of hybrid reality TV only tangentially related to wrestling in pursuit of the larges global reach possible and forgoing a lot of the wrestling fans that got them to the dance to begin with, AEW have propped themselves up in the opposite direction and built a tree fort style castle around the niche smark army ready to tell them that EVERYTHING they're doing is fine just so they can come climb into the clubhouse too.
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Old 07-20-2021, 01:33 AM   #5345
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Bravo! I did not expect to see such a beautiful post in this echo chamber of a forum. I will revisit it when I lose faith in these mouth breathers.
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Old 07-20-2021, 02:05 AM   #5346
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I find that a LOT of the Bullet Cult are incapable of A. Acknowledging that there even are any flaws in the AEW product, B. Defend the product without mentioning WWE doing something stupid, or C. Defend the product without acting like Jim Cornette, a heel manager, being humiliated by a guy in a ninja turtle outfit on the 2nd match of a minor show at the local rec center is the EXACT SAME THING as Kenny Omega, the WORLD FUCKING CHAMPION, telling his manager to 69 him in the middle of the ring during a major segment on National Television.
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Old 07-20-2021, 02:12 AM   #5347
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A) People discuss their flaws while watching the show when they happen, just like they do for WWE.

B) WWE is a hot mess most of the time and does do a lot of stupid things, as the largest wrestling company in the world it's not weird to cross-reference them when responding to people disliking the many good things AEW does in comparison.

C) It's weird when people act like AEW fans are all obsessed with Omega (and the Young Bucks). Those aren't really the wrestlers that get tons of love here, most of us like wrestlers who we weren't familiar with pre-AEW primarily.
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:18 AM   #5348
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D) I like the stock
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:19 AM   #5349
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In all honesty, I'm not 100% what it is, but I don't find myself wanting to change the channel every 10 minutes with AEW, unless the ladies are on. Their women division blows.


WWE gave me a seizure during the Drew/Jinder segment. They should 100% stop that.
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Old 07-20-2021, 04:04 PM   #5350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Anyone who loves and obsesses over anything, whether it's wrestling, cars, sports, etc, and sees a false statement about it, is going to have an almost uncontrollable urge to correct it. It's practically human nature. There's not necessarily a bias attached to it.

Also a quick skim of the guy's Twitter tells me that while he is mainly a wwe fan, he is fairly objective and unafraid to criticize them. And when he does mention aew, it's mostly positive.

Guy just likes what he likes, and makes no attempt to drag down the stuff he's not into. Far cry from the "aew hater" he's being made out to be. Actually seems like a pretty nice guy. I might follow him.
You cannot say anything out of line with the “AEW is taking over” narrative. People will say you can and make all sorts of excuses as to why they attack you, but it absolutely happens. There are obviously going to be nutters on each side, but anyone who tells you that it’s “freaking out” to make even a trivial correction is not being intellectually honest about the whole thing.

People want to take ownership of things they enjoy sometimes. I desperately want wrestling to not be shitty too. That’s almost natural. But when they take ownership and feel that being threatened, they go absolutely nuts. Its theirs and they will fight for it if you don’t put it on a pedestal. That’s when it gets fun, because there is no reasonable place for these people to go but insults, fake accounts or a holier-than-thou attitude.

And yeah, I know I present myself as an arrogant ass on here too. That’s because I believe in my opinions and try as best I can to line them up with facts. That’s what’s really threatening to some people. Reality is the harshest cure to fantasy sometimes.
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Old 07-20-2021, 04:05 PM   #5351
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Anyway, has this thing been cancelled yet? It only gets 1 million viewers every week. Throw it in the trash and let wrestling die.
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:32 PM   #5352
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I don't get Kenny Omega's appeal. Sure he's meta and very outlandish. But he's the promotion's champion and his looks and gimmick reek of mid-card graveyard.
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:34 PM   #5353
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If he's looking for relevancy in America, alienating half of the people is not a good start. He's also such a dork for tailoring his look after Harley Race. He doesn't even look or feel like a champion.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:29 PM   #5354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
In all honesty, I'm not 100% what it is, but I don't find myself wanting to change the channel every 10 minutes with AEW, unless the ladies are on. Their women division blows.


WWE gave me a seizure during the Drew/Jinder segment. They should 100% stop that.
I actually think that AEW (and Impact, tangentially speaking) picked up some production truck castoffs that sat under the learning tree of Dunn at some point as well. Granted, it is not NEARLY AS BAD as crashing to a rotation of four different camera angles every one or two seconds that WWE has devolved to, but they also have had points where they try to create action where there supposedly "isn't enough" already going on in the ring. That is a trend they definitely SHOULD NOT CONTINUE TO EMULATE from big brother Vince. Someone needs to go through their truck with a rolled up newspaper and start smacking these guys on the nose and shout "NO!".
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:52 PM   #5355
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Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I don't get Kenny Omega's appeal. Sure he's meta and very outlandish. But he's the promotion's champion and his looks and gimmick reek of mid-card graveyard.
The funny thing is that I have almost the same opinion of Omega as I have about HHH. He's actually good, but not as good as he thinks he is or not nearly as good as the people around him tell him he is. Except I'd argue HHH has a better mind for the business, even though he has had his share of pulling dumb shit.

It is weird, because back when there was the whole uncertanty with what he was going to do post NJPW and heavy signals pointing towards him going to WWE, I felt that it would be both a perfect fit and a big mistake. He is tailor made for all the hokey bullshit WWE would do. He could pull off the verbose, overscripted promos because it sounds like he does already. He has the physique to draw Vince's attention. He had the buzz to be presented as a big deal on the main roster from day one. And he can go in the ring well enough, especially with people who also know what the fuck they're doing... but there is a part of me believes that there would have been this weird friction between him and HHH because they're too much like the same person.

Also, it feels like if the roles were reversed, almost this exact scenario would still have played out if Kenny were the old semi-retired executive and Hunter were in his prime and being touted as The Second Coming by the indie fans.
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:38 PM   #5356
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Oh
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Old 07-22-2021, 06:27 AM   #5357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
The funny thing is that I have almost the same opinion of Omega as I have about HHH. He's actually good, but not as good as he thinks he is or not nearly as good as the people around him tell him he is. Except I'd argue HHH has a better mind for the business, even though he has had his share of pulling dumb shit.

It is weird, because back when there was the whole uncertanty with what he was going to do post NJPW and heavy signals pointing towards him going to WWE, I felt that it would be both a perfect fit and a big mistake. He is tailor made for all the hokey bullshit WWE would do. He could pull off the verbose, overscripted promos because it sounds like he does already. He has the physique to draw Vince's attention. He had the buzz to be presented as a big deal on the main roster from day one. And he can go in the ring well enough, especially with people who also know what the fuck they're doing... but there is a part of me believes that there would have been this weird friction between him and HHH because they're too much like the same person.

Also, it feels like if the roles were reversed, almost this exact scenario would still have played out if Kenny were the old semi-retired executive and Hunter were in his prime and being touted as The Second Coming by the indie fans.
It’s funny you make that comparison. Triple H was always my vote for the most overrated wrestler of all-time. Only recently has been supplanted by Kenny Omega. Trips edges him out in psychology, facial expressions, the total number of classics, drawing power, etc. Because people fawn so much over Omega, and because I think he is just objectively worse yet more highly rated, I have to give the crown to Omega.
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:03 PM   #5358
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:36 PM   #5359
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I can get behind this. She's incredible and deserves to be higher on the card. She should take the title off dentist lady.
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:38 PM   #5360
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
It’s funny you make that comparison. Triple H was always my vote for the most overrated wrestler of all-time. Only recently has been supplanted by Kenny Omega. Trips edges him out in psychology, facial expressions, the total number of classics, drawing power, etc. Because people fawn so much over Omega, and because I think he is just objectively worse yet more highly rated, I have to give the crown to Omega.
With all due respect to the wrestling nerds, Omega is nowhere near Triple H. No matter how much you want it, it's simply not factual.
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