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View Poll Results: Did Bret Hart do anything important other than The Montreal Screwjob?
Nope, Montreal is it 4 10.81%
yeah 26 70.27%
Goldberg was more important 7 18.92%
Shawn Michaels was more important 11 29.73%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 37. You must log in or register to vote on this poll.

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Old 05-13-2018, 09:15 PM   #81
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rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)rez puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
For the most part, Bret sucked in the WCW. Oh well..still a fan of Sting Vs. Hart @ HH '98

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3uw5ot
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
Yeah, you kind of go through the teams of that era and list Demolition, The Bulldogs, Hart Foundation and The Brain Busters, before moving up to The Steiners, the dark years, and then into Edge & Christian/Hardyz/Dudleyz territory.
Harlem Heat*
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:46 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
So was Shawn leaving after WM 14.
this is a bret thread, why is michaels dick in your mouth

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Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
Shawn did the job for Austin. Way more professional than Bret.
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Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Shawn also came back and drew money while Bret whined on the internet for 2 decades.
correct
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:57 PM   #84
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insert "Bret screwed Bret!" here.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:08 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
this is a bret thread, why is michaels dick in your mouth
I just think it's specious to discredit Bret the way you do. With or without Bret or Shawn (the two biggest stars of the previous era), Stone Cold was taking them to the top. It wasn't addition via subtraction except a little easier for McMahon to manage the locker room without having to deal w/ Bret and Shawn's bullshit.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:30 PM   #86
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Bret and shawn were not stars. Thats your mistake.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:31 PM   #87
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Michaels became a star in 2002 or so.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:35 PM   #88
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They were stars like booker t and jeff jarrett were stars at the end of wcw
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:43 PM   #89
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They were stars like booker t and jeff jarrett were stars at the end of wcw
Are you referring to their drawing power b/c then I get your argument?
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:47 PM   #90
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Yes
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:02 AM   #91
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Yes
Yeah domestically they weren't great but Bret was a good draw for WWE internationally. Helped business a good deal when they went overseas.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:13 AM   #92
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Ive said this before but yeah he was a real big deal in india. Sadly the company still almost went under on his watch so ee shouldnt break out arms patting him on the back.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:42 AM   #93
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this weeks bischoffs podcast is about bret hart it is a hoot.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:54 AM   #94
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Shawn did the job for Austin. Way more professional than Bret.
Only cuz Taker threatened to beat his ass if he didnít lol
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:27 AM   #95
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They were stars like booker t and jeff jarrett were stars at the end of wcw
Nah because the company went under. WWE actually stayed alive with Bret and Shawn.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:33 AM   #96
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Barely
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:34 AM   #97
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AND THEN Bret helped make Steve Austin leading to the boom period. WM13 turned Austin into a truly blood and guts babyface. In fact, the argument could be made that the Hart Foundation angle versus Austin got the ball rolling. The ratings weren't going to flip on a dime - it had to start somewhere and Bret's heel turn signified the start of a shift.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:35 AM   #98
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Barely
Maybe if Kevin Sullivan was the booker they'd have drawn more.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:40 AM   #99
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Quote:
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Nah because the company went under. WWE actually stayed alive with Bret and Shawn.
Only went under due to the AOL Time Warner merger. The financials were stronger for 2000's WCW. But thats a poor justification on your part; numbers be damned. Bankruptcy was a real concern and they had to use smaller and smaller venues throughout his entire run.

Liking a guys work and him being good are not the same thing and thats what mid-90s WWF fans dont get. That entire era should be remembered as a failure.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:43 AM   #100
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but the fact is they went under while WWE didn't.

I could list a million reasons why Bret AND Shawn got boned during their runs at the top but you'll just point to the numbers. At the end of the day, WCW failed and flopped. WWF kept afloat until they hit their boom and trounced WCW.
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:48 AM   #101
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Which had nothing to do with bret. In fact he went from a company that struggling that boomed when he left to a company booming that then began to fail
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:49 AM   #102
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Employing bret hart is the kiss of death
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:49 AM   #103
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Bret hart could sponsor milk and in a week everyone would buy soy
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:50 AM   #104
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:53 AM   #105
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When I'm having trouble sleeping, I just need to fire up a Bret Hart match.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:00 AM   #106
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Vito and Destor= both dead 2 me.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:26 AM   #107
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In all seriousness i would agree with Bret, Shawn and everyone else not being a draw from 93-97. But i also believe you can't really put the blame on one person. People like to shit on Nash and his run, but the overall product was pretty shitty. It's so hard to watch that era. There's some rays of light, but it was pretty awful. Pretty comparable to today's product actually.

Anyway when you get to 97 and you start having a good mix of storylines and characters, Bret, Shawn, Taker and Austin pretty much hit a homerun and started the boom. To me, the boom period started when Bret came back in late 96 with Austin. And you had HBK/Sid, Taker/Mankind. Fans were seeing something different and the everything started to take off. the product was a lot more edgier. I remember that promo Bret did when he lost to Sid in the cage on Raw when he pushed Vince and said "Frustrated isn't a god dam word for it...This is Bullshit." as a 13 year old, pretty much the greatest thing i'd ever seen lol." And i'm sure tons of people ate that up. things like that completely reinvented the product

So I guess what I am trying to say is I believe nobody on top would of made a difference during that era (93-96 specifically) The product lagged behind society change and it killed wrestling. Bret's my fav wrestler by far, but unfortunately the business was the shits during his time on top. Even the numbers in 97 weren't anything special, but i believe 100% that 97 turned the business around like i said earlier.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:34 AM   #108
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Cannon pretty much hit the nail on the head for me. But Bret's detractors have made up their minds.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:35 AM   #109
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I dont accept this. Give him credit for his successes but ignore his failures jazz is easy to do for people you like but it isnt objective. The top guy gets to enjoy that reward of success but he has the burden of failure as well. Fewer people watched bret hart lead the WWF than watched Bokker T lead WCW. Thats a fact. His run as the companies top act saw ticket sales fall. Thats a fact. Him being the best thing on a bad show doesnt change the fact people werent wanting to him headline shows.

Again there is a strong difference between liking a guys work and him being a star. If im going to go back and watch matches from that era its a good bet that is HBM of Hart that im watching but me being a mark for these guys doesnt change the fact they were bad draws and their biggest contributions from that time were stepping aside.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:43 AM   #110
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Neither was given a chance to draw and you know it. It was a down time in the business and neither HBM, Bret, or even Diesel's fault. A lot of it had to do with how out of touch Vince was.

Look at the undercard when Hogan was on top. Then look at the undercard when Bret, Diesel, and Michaels were on top. And look at the storylines too. Just fucking terrible. You're blaming these guys for Vince's failures.

It's not so cut and dry IMO. Bret rose to the top because he was a star and the small amount of fans they had left loved him. Same with Shawn.

Not everyone can be Stone Cold Steve Austin or the Rock. But they can still be "top guys". The biggest shame for me is Bret wasn't around during Austin's reign because they really brought the best out of one another.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:44 AM   #111
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Hogan had every main eventer from every territory as his undercard.

Bret and Shawn had Duke the Dumpster and Mantaur.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:46 AM   #112
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"neither was given chance"

The fuck does that even mean. They built the company around them for half a decade.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:47 AM   #113
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Every always blames the office. If I dont get my job done I dont blame my boss. VInce wasnt mishandling funds like WCW was his guys werent selling tickets. Whos job do you think that is?

Im paid to get over.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:49 AM   #114
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Could you imagine if a musician blamed a low house on the opening act?
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:49 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dastardly One View Post
Hogan had every main eventer from every territory as his undercard.

Bret and Shawn had Duke the Dumpster and Mantaur.
Stone Cole did incredible business in 98 with just as shitty an undercard as Bret did. Go watch the 98 Rumble and see all the duds in it.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:50 AM   #116
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People would pay to hear freebird even if Hanson went on first.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:50 AM   #117
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Stone Cole did incredible business in 98 with just as shitty an undercard as Bret did. Go watch the 98 Rumble and see all the duds in it.
TRUTH
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:51 AM   #118
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Lol the tag division were the New Age Outlaws, repackaged Godwins , stale Headbangers, New Midnight Express and repackaged Legion of Doom.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:53 AM   #119
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Stone Cold feuded with Dude Love after Mania 14.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:57 AM   #120
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At the peak of the attitude era the undercard was 70% shit
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