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Old 05-14-2018, 02:47 PM   #1
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All things considered..how confident are you that WWE/Brock will job the title cleanly .. ever.

On a scale of 1 to 10.

By all things considered, I mean, take into account Brock contract. The fact that he's paid 500k per match and whats the point of paying him if he isnt the champ? Take into account those who might be ready to take the belt, but might not have Brocks approval. How much bargaining power does Brock have when it comes to whether he loses or wins? I actually think Brock might have a lot of say on who and when he drops the belt to.

I'm seriously thinking we will not see Brock drop this belt cleanly to anyone and we will not see the Universal Title change hands for a long time from now. And in the process, I think it's going to bury Braun and Seth Rollins who both have never been hotter than they are right now.

I can see a scenario where 5 years from now when this whole Brock storm passes by, we go over all the destruction it left as far as individual performers are concerned. I see nothing good about this Brock contract. I see nothing good about him carrying to belt right now or even being in the WWE for anything other than a full time run. And i think the long term detriment to the company will probably be felt for the next 10 to 15 years, if they even remain relevant in that time.


It dont matter who did what to who at this point. The fact is, we went to war. And now there aint no going back. It's what war is you know? Once you're in it, you're in it. If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie, but we gotta fight!
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:00 PM   #2
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I don't think he has any qualms doing a job. He used to job every other match once he returned.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
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I don't think he has any qualms doing a job. He used to job every other match once he returned.
I honestly dont remember this. Can you elaborate?
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:03 PM   #4
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Hes gotta beat CM Punk's title reign then he'll do the job. Vince is petty like that.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
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I honestly dont remember this. Can you elaborate?
He Jobbed to Cena, HHH, Taker, and Goldberg
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
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He Jobbed to Cena, HHH, Taker, and Goldberg
Did he lose the title each time? And was he being paid anything near what he's being paid atm?
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:03 PM   #7
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10
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:12 PM   #8
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10 for me. Lesnar is an attraction and WWE will keep milking him. I do see him losing the belt before the end of the yr.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:06 PM   #9
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10.

Rollins, Lashley, or Braun will beat him clean.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:09 PM   #10
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Lashley will not beat him clean. Lashley wont even beat his sisters clean.
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Old 05-14-2018, 05:14 PM   #11
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Lashley is going to be shot into the main event super fast.
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:16 PM   #12
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Lashley is going to be shot into the main event super fast.
No he's not. He's as dead as Titus O'Neil atm.
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:17 PM   #13
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They could switch Titus with Lashley and 90% fans wouldnt know.
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:24 PM   #14
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11. He'll drop it clean to somebody at SummerSlam so he can fuck off back to UFC.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
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They could switch Titus with Lashley and 90% fans wouldnt know.
Yes they will Titus O'Neil has a personality

And Brock Lesnar does not give a f*** I think if they ask him to drop it to Zack Ryder he would as long as he's getting paid.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:21 PM   #16
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I dont think Brock is dropping the belt this year.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Did he lose the title each time? And was he being paid anything near what he's being paid atm?
He didn't drop the title to any of them, only lost the title once to Rollins through Roman.

He will drop the belt at Summerslam to either a multiple person match where he doesn't take the fall, or by another MITB cash in like at Mania.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:50 AM   #18
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No he's not. He's as dead as Titus O'Neil atm.
Titus has never been hotter than right after that GRR slide.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:14 AM   #19
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Brock has lost to Cena, Triple H, Taker, Goldberg and Rollins since he has been back. They figured it wasn't the right time to switch the belt at Mania. That's all. And would the crowd have cheered Reigns winning it? Of course not.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:01 PM   #20
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Brock lost to Rollins? Huh?

Was it a clean loss?
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Brock lost to Rollins? Huh?

Was it a clean loss?
Technically it wasn't....Rollins pinned Reigns in the match he is talking about.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:43 PM   #22
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10.

Doubt Lesnar cares if he has the belt or not but WWE for sure seems to have no clue on when they want Lesnar to drop it.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:47 PM   #23
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Its a work. He's not a mark. The end.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Brock has lost to Cena, Triple H, Taker, Goldberg and Rollins since he has been back. They figured it wasn't the right time to switch the belt at Mania. That's all. And would the crowd have cheered Reigns winning it? Of course not.
To also be fair, he was really protected in all but the Goldberg losses.

Cena pinned him in an extreme rules match after hitting him with a steel chain and an A.A. on the steel steps. Brock went on to dominate Cena and win the WWE Title, then successfully defend twice against Cena.

Triple H beat him at in a NoDQ match at Mania with the help of the steel steps, a chair, a sledgehammer, and Shawn Michaels. Brock went on to Beat HHH in a cage match the following month.

Rollins cashed in and pinned Roman to take the title Brock got from Cena. Brock got storyline suspended the next day for destroying J&J security, JBL, Booker T, Michael Cole, and a cameraman while Rollins got away. When he finally got his rematch against Rollins he destroyed him the whole match until Taker showed up and the match ended as a no contest.

Undertaker beat him at Summerslam after Taker tapped out, the ref missed it, then Taker hit a low blow and Lesnar passed out to Hells Gate, refusing to tap out and instead giving Taker the finger. Lesnar went on to Beat Taker the following month in a Hell in the Cell match.

He lost clean to Goldberg, but even that ended up in Brock getting the win back at Mania when he won the Universal Title, but at least Goldberg actually beat him without weapons, help, or a ref missing a tap out.

At this point seeing as he has already beat every real contender, the only way he is losing is as I described above, cash in or multiple person match where somebody else takes the pin.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:42 PM   #25
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I'd go 8. Not because there's any chance Brock would refuse to job clean but because I think there's a chance Heyman could turn on him to cost him the title before he leaves in order to attach him to another guy and keep him around so it technically wouldn't be clean.

Other than that, he's not gonna care about losing clean on his way out and I can't imagine WWE being dumb enough (I know, I know. I've said it before and been duped.) to have him drop the title without it putting over the guy who takes it from him as much as possible.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Brock lost to Rollins? Huh?

Was it a clean loss?
No, but it was in the main event of WrestleMania.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
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To also be fair, he was really protected in all but the Goldberg losses.

Cena pinned him in an extreme rules match after hitting him with a steel chain and an A.A. on the steel steps. Brock went on to dominate Cena and win the WWE Title, then successfully defend twice against Cena.

Triple H beat him at in a NoDQ match at Mania with the help of the steel steps, a chair, a sledgehammer, and Shawn Michaels. Brock went on to Beat HHH in a cage match the following month.

Rollins cashed in and pinned Roman to take the title Brock got from Cena. Brock got storyline suspended the next day for destroying J&J security, JBL, Booker T, Michael Cole, and a cameraman while Rollins got away. When he finally got his rematch against Rollins he destroyed him the whole match until Taker showed up and the match ended as a no contest.

Undertaker beat him at Summerslam after Taker tapped out, the ref missed it, then Taker hit a low blow and Lesnar passed out to Hells Gate, refusing to tap out and instead giving Taker the finger. Lesnar went on to Beat Taker the following month in a Hell in the Cell match.

He lost clean to Goldberg, but even that ended up in Brock getting the win back at Mania when he won the Universal Title, but at least Goldberg actually beat him without weapons, help, or a ref missing a tap out.

At this point seeing as he has already beat every real contender, the only way he is losing is as I described above, cash in or multiple person match where somebody else takes the pin.
Being protected in a loss doesn't make them not losses though. I get what you're saying, but John Cena beat Brock Lesnar by pushing the boundaries in an Extreme Rules Match. Triple H used those measures in a No DQ match, etc. On the Cena stuff, Brock did beat Cena at SummerSlam, but at Night of Champions it looked like Cena was about to win when he got attacked or something, triggered the DQ win over Brock.

Destor's summary is pretty on the money. Brock is not a mark. I honestly think a lot of the roster are these days, but Brock is not.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:38 PM   #28
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That said, he DID puss out on dropping the IWGP title, claiming visa issues.

Vince may need to bring in a legit ass kicker when the time comes.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:40 PM   #29
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I doubt Vince has access to anyone who could legitimately kick Brock’s ass. He’ll do the job. It’ll probably still be Reigns in a “fuck it” moment.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:51 PM   #30
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Being protected in a loss doesn't make them not losses though. I get what you're saying, but John Cena beat Brock Lesnar by pushing the boundaries in an Extreme Rules Match. Triple H used those measures in a No DQ match, etc. On the Cena stuff, Brock did beat Cena at SummerSlam, but at Night of Champions it looked like Cena was about to win when he got attacked or something, triggered the DQ win over Brock.

Destor's summary is pretty on the money. Brock is not a mark. I honestly think a lot of the roster are these days, but Brock is not.
Right, it's not Brock refusing to do the jobs or demanding to be protected.

My point is that is how he has been booked for 6+ years now, so the odds of him losing clean are slim to none considering the history of his booking.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:02 PM   #31
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He's lost clean more than he should. He's been hyped as an unstoppable monster and his booking should reflect that. It has nothing to do with politics. When the time comes for him to put another guy over, he'll do it.
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:03 PM   #32
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Right, it's not Brock refusing to do the jobs or demanding to be protected.

My point is that is how he has been booked for 6+ years now, so the odds of him losing clean are slim to none considering the history of his booking.
Yeah, you're right. When he drops the belt, it may not be entirely clean. I don't know if it should be though, especially if he is going to be sticking around as a special attraction. It depends on who and what the plan going forward is. Haha..."plan" going forward...
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:33 PM   #33
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I doubt Vince has access to anyone who could legitimately kick Brock’s ass. He’ll do the job. It’ll probably still be Reigns in a “fuck it” moment.
Daniel Cormier is planning on retiring from the UFC next year and is a huge WWE fan. He'd destroy Brock Lesnar.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:16 PM   #34
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Would he? I'm honestly not up to date on my UFC. Cormier is a name I've heard of, but he's a similar age to Brock and is giving up a fair bit of weight. He can probably out-strike Lesnar, but if Brock grabbed him, wouldn't he be mauled like Leo?

Besides, you've got to get Cormier in, you've got to get Brock to agree to premise, then you've got the belt on a dude who has never trained for pro-wrestling and basically said that anyone can walk in from the UFC, 80lbs lighter than our champ and take the belt. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ever need to come to that. Even if Brock decided he wanted to take his ball and go home or whatever, you can always just announce a tournament for a new champion, or just forget the Universal Title ever existed.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:35 PM   #35
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I had a dream scenario come to me last night, while trying really, really, really hard to make current WWE interesting. I think my ideal angle right now would be depressed, single John Cena wanting to make some extra money from Vince McMahon by helping him out with his "Vision" for WWE. He helps Roman Reigns win the Universal Title at SummerSlam, screwing over Brock Lesnar.

On Raw, Vince McMahon comes out and says that now the Universal Title is off Brock, he doesn't need to pay him an arm and a leg just to be here -- he's not got the belt on his golden boy, Roman Reigns. John Cena says he helped Vince McMahon because he's all about WWE and that there are very few men who can carry the workload of being a true champion.

Daniel Bryan's contract is coming up, so he confronts Vince during a segment. He says that he will only re-sign with the WWE if Vince agrees to a little wager. He knows Vince won't give up WWE willingly, but everybody knows it is time for him to step away. He's going to prove it to Vince by beating him in a game of stakes, because if Vince can't rise to the occasion, that is the only way Vince McMahon himself will realize it. The game of stakes is a Survivor Series Elimination Match in November, with Daniel Bryan leading a team against Vince McMahon's "Vision." If Vince wins, he'll sign a new contract for chips and continue doing what he loves, but all his merchandise money goes to Vince; if Bryan wins, then Vince has to step down as Chairman of WWE.

Vince's first port of call is obviously Roman Reigns and John Cena, followed by Triple H. Daniel Bryan announces that Brock Lesnar is looking for some pay-back, and Brock will be on Team Bryan at Survivor Series. Vince panics, and as a result gets into the ear of The Undertaker, who is a Vince guy (I had Lashley, but just changed it to Taker because). Bryan announces that WWE Champion AJ Styles, Cesaro and Rusev will be joining his team. In the case of Cesaro and Rusev, it's a nice way to elevate a great talent that isn't that over, and a talent that is pretty over. Randy Orton and Samoa Joe are both too cool to give a shit about this war, so they turn down Vince's offer to join his team, so he books them in a match against each other. Shinsuke Nakamura wants the last spot on Team Vince, but Vince turns him down in favor of Sheamus (this could also be Bobby Lashley to get him on the team, but whatever). Seth Rollins did want on the babyface team, but Bryan doesn't trust him to go against Reigns, since they have such strong ties.

Survivor Series Main Event: Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, Brock Lesnar, Cesaro & Rusev vs. Roman Reigns, John Cena, Triple H, The Undertaker & Sheamus

* Brock destroys Sheamus with relative ease and eliminates him.

* I had Lashley then getting an amateur style flash pin on Brock to set something up between them, but assuming that he is out of the match, I'd have Brock eliminate Taker too. Send him on a bit of a warpath before he is a shock elimination.

* Reigns pins Brock to definitively get one up over him.

* Triple H eliminates Cesaro & Rusev because Triple H needs something because he's Triple H.

* Triple H starts selling a quad injury. Vince yells at Triple H at ringside, and Trips musters what he can to get back into the ring, but Styles catches him with a Calf-Crusher and Triple H taps out in the biggest match of his father-in-law's life.

* John Cena pins AJ Styles to set up a WWE Title match between the two for #17.

* Daniel Bryan battles back and manages to eliminate John Cena. You'd probably save an actual tap-out for a later date, so maybe he gets a roll-up after a miscommunication between Cena and Reigns.

* Bryan pins Reigns with the knee and he wins the match and Vince is gone.

* By the way, Samoa Joe is Money in the Bank Winner and comes down to watch the final fall. After Bryan wins the match, he enters the ring and cashes in his contract after Vince has been whisked away to build on top of that moment with another one. Joe chokes out Reigns and becomes the new Universal Champion.

Hopefully from this you further define some characters. Orton and Joe aren't the sort to start taking sides in a war; Seth Rollins may have some gripes with Daniel Bryan; Nakamura might have some gripes with the heel side; Brock might have a new match coming out of it, etc.

It's not fully formed in my head, but TL;DR: In a perfect world (and I am no longer a "turn John Cena heel" person), I would probably have Cena help Reigns win the Universal Title, haha.

Last edited by Noid; 05-17-2018 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:50 AM   #36
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I had a dream scenario come to me last night, while trying really, really, really hard to make current WWE interesting. I think my ideal angle right now would be depressed, single John Cena wanting to make some extra money from Vince McMahon by helping him out with his "Vision" for WWE. He helps Roman Reigns win the Universal Title at SummerSlam, screwing over Brock Lesnar.

On Raw, Vince McMahon comes out and says that now the Universal Title is off Brock, he doesn't need to pay him an arm and a leg just to be here -- he's not got the belt on his golden boy, Roman Reigns. John Cena says he helped Vince McMahon because he's all about WWE and that there are very few men who can carry the workload of being a true champion.

Daniel Bryan's contract is coming up, so he confronts Vince during a segment. He says that he will only re-sign with the WWE if Vince agrees to a little wager. He knows Vince won't give up WWE willingly, but everybody knows it is time for him to step away. He's going to prove it to Vince by beating him in a game of stakes, because if Vince can't rise to the occasion, that is the only way Vince McMahon himself will realize it. The game of stakes is a Survivor Series Elimination Match in November, with Daniel Bryan leading a team against Vince McMahon's "Vision." If Vince wins, he'll sign a new contract for chips and continue doing what he loves, but all his merchandise money goes to Vince; if Bryan wins, then Vince has to step down as Chairman of WWE.

Vince's first port of call is obviously Roman Reigns and John Cena, followed by Triple H. Daniel Bryan announces that Brock Lesnar is looking for some pay-back, and Brock will be on Team Bryan at Survivor Series. Vince panics, and as a result gets into the ear of The Undertaker, who is a Vince guy (I had Lashley, but just changed it to Taker because). Bryan announces that WWE Champion AJ Styles, Cesaro and Rusev will be joining his team. In the case of Cesaro and Rusev, it's a nice way to elevate a great talent that isn't that over, and a talent that is pretty over. Randy Orton and Samoa Joe are both too cool to give a shit about this war, so they turn down Vince's offer to join his team, so he books them in a match against each other. Shinsuke Nakamura wants the last spot on Team Vince, but Vince turns him down in favor of Sheamus (this could also be Bobby Lashley to get him on the team, but whatever). Seth Rollins did want on the babyface team, but Bryan doesn't trust him to go against Reigns, since they have such strong ties.

Survivor Series Main Event: Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, Brock Lesnar, Cesaro & Rusev vs. Roman Reigns, John Cena, Triple H, The Undertaker & Sheamus

* Brock destroys Sheamus with relative ease and eliminates him.

* I had Lashley then getting an amateur style flash pin on Brock to set something up between them, but assuming that he is out of the match, I'd have Brock eliminate Taker too. Send him on a bit of a warpath before he is a shock elimination.

* Reigns pins Brock to definitively get one up over him.

* Triple H eliminates Cesaro & Rusev because Triple H needs something because he's Triple H.

* Triple H starts selling a quad injury. Vince yells at Triple H at ringside, and Trips musters what he can to get back into the ring, but Styles catches him with a Calf-Crusher and Triple H taps out in the biggest match of his father-in-law's life.

* John Cena pins AJ Styles to set up a WWE Title match between the two for #17.

* Daniel Bryan battles back and manages to eliminate John Cena. You'd probably save an actual tap-out for a later date, so maybe he gets a roll-up after a miscommunication between Cena and Reigns.

* Bryan pins Reigns with the knee and he wins the match and Vince is gone.

* By the way, Samoa Joe is Money in the Bank Winner and comes down to watch the final fall. After Bryan wins the match, he enters the ring and cashes in his contract after Vince has been whisked away to build on top of that moment with another one. Joe chokes out Reigns and becomes the new Universal Champion.

Hopefully from this you further define some characters. Orton and Joe aren't the sort to start taking sides in a war; Seth Rollins may have some gripes with Daniel Bryan; Nakamura might have some gripes with the heel side; Brock might have a new match coming out of it, etc.

It's not fully formed in my head, but TLR: In a perfect world (and I am no longer a "turn John Cena heel" person), I would probably have Cena help Reigns win the Universal Title, haha.
Great scenario! Sets up several programs that could take you into WrestleMania. I like that proposed Survivor Series main event and would definitely tune in.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:53 AM   #37
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Turning Cena is the only thing I am weird about in it. That and using Taker in a major role still. But as hooks for the moment, whatever.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:54 AM   #38
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Would he? I'm honestly not up to date on my UFC. Cormier is a name I've heard of, but he's a similar age to Brock and is giving up a fair bit of weight. He can probably out-strike Lesnar, but if Brock grabbed him, wouldn't he be mauled like Leo?

Besides, you've got to get Cormier in, you've got to get Brock to agree to premise, then you've got the belt on a dude who has never trained for pro-wrestling and basically said that anyone can walk in from the UFC, 80lbs lighter than our champ and take the belt. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ever need to come to that. Even if Brock decided he wanted to take his ball and go home or whatever, you can always just announce a tournament for a new champion, or just forget the Universal Title ever existed.
Nah, Cormier is an Olympic level wrestler who was originally a heavyweight (won the Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix by rag-dolling legit heavyweights) but went down to 205 pounds because his friend Cain Velasquez fights at heavyweight.

I can legit see Cormier in the WWE. He's a HUGE fan, charismatic and it seems that the WWE is where big-name UFC fighters go to retire.
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:05 AM   #39
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WWE style promo.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:04 AM   #40
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Cool. Thanks for sharing. I'd be all for that, because one thing they certainly need is stars.
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