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Old 05-13-2019, 03:24 PM   #2601
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It was nice to see her turn into a bumbling mess before she died.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:35 PM   #2602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Yep.

Not to mention Jaime's arc seems kind of pointless. All that slowly built up redemption for him to just run back to cersei and die with her.

This and Dany turning full Mad Queen seem like stupidly rapid character developments. The moments that built towards these regressions/progressions should have been spaced out further and been given greater display. Dany lost a lot of her nearest and dearest and yet had they done it gradually you could have seen signs of her descent into mad vengeance earlier and better.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:02 PM   #2603
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That's the main problem with these last 2 seasons. The show has gotten away from what made everyone love it. Small moments and "side quests" that might not have been integral to the larger narrative but it gave you insight into who these characters were and why they did the things they did. There has been none of that recently.

Combine that with just the overall sloppiness of how everything has been executed and you get a truly baffling end to what was once a great show. They Dexter'd it.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:16 PM   #2604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
It was nice to see her turn into a bumbling mess before she died.
I dunno. I kept waiting for her to have a trick up her sleeve but it never happened. I didn't get it. She just stood there. This is the same person who blew up the high septum (or whatever that temple was called) after getting a bunch of her enemies to converge there. This same person just fn stood there?? Wtf
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:28 PM   #2605
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It's like the early seasons of GoT are a William Regal match. Takes his time telling the story, and everything he does means something. Meanwhile, these past couple seasons have been a Seth Rollins match. They're big and flashy, and illicit a lot of "oohs" and ahhs", but he forgets to sell, blows a spot or two, and at the end of the day, doesn't tell a particularly good story.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:59 PM   #2606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
I dunno. I kept waiting for her to have a trick up her sleeve but it never happened. I didn't get it. She just stood there. This is the same person who blew up the high septum (or whatever that temple was called) after getting a bunch of her enemies to converge there. This same person just fn stood there?? Wtf
Yeah... was really expecting her to have some sort of diabolical plan.... At the very least, her military defenses were better executed than the defense of Winterfell. (The defenses just crumbled via the overwhelming power of the dragon, and not being able to shoot it down before all their crossbow things were destroyed)
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:38 PM   #2607
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The dragons have been handled so badly too.

Jobbers.

I think they were supposed to show that without a rider the dragons are essentially hit or miss but in the mayhem it just made them look useless.

Also check episode four for some awful CGI of dragon wings flapping. It was so poor...

The dragons might as well not have been in this. Biggest cock tease of all.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:23 PM   #2608
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The dragon was used to destroy King's Landing... was v important imo!
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:28 PM   #2609
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Lots of people shocked by Dany's heel turn... Feel like she has been a heel for several seasons now... acting like a tyrant who lusts for power over others...

Def a huge overlap of "slay kween" type people who loved Dany for being a "bad ass powerful woman CEO" and people who love Hillary Clinton... both pieces of shit...
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:29 PM   #2610
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:58 PM   #2611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple A View Post
The dragon was used to destroy King's Landing... was v important imo!
One dragon destroyed Kings Landing while two others were annihilated by different types of projectile out of nowhere...one was thrown by hand.

Dragons are a bit shit if you ask me.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:13 PM   #2612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple A View Post
Lots of people shocked by Dany's heel turn... Feel like she has been a heel for several seasons now... acting like a tyrant who lusts for power over others...
She has historically been an advocate of mercy but there is plenty of evidence that without the counsel of others she would have made a series of egregious, sadistic decisions along the way.

The way they went wrong was purely with timing. If they had killed off Jorah heroically after she had pardoned him the second time then had Missandei killed off right at the start of this season or even last season, you could then have her begin this season with vengeance in mind. Varys would be taken out and the moment that happened the audience would be like "Oh shit she's going to burn them all just like her dad".

They rushed the lust for death and now she just looks like a bad bastard instead of a grieving, angry child with huge power.

Her story is Sansa's but Sansa is supposed to be the good one, the one who being traded off as an unwilling wife and enduring wedding night rape did not ruin. The major problem is that Sophie Turner came off as far more cold and angry than Dany did, to the point where you have to say it's bad writing. Add to this that Dany and Sansa are supposed to be the same age roughly but clearly are not in the show... It all gets too confusing to interpret as well masked intention. I think this last few seasons suffered without the source text there as a guide.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:55 PM   #2613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple A View Post
Lots of people shocked by Dany's heel turn... Feel like she has been a heel for several seasons now... acting like a tyrant who lusts for power over others...

Def a huge overlap of "slay kween" type people who loved Dany for being a "bad ass powerful woman CEO" and people who love Hillary Clinton... both pieces of shit...


"lots of people" is better than the people on Twitter assuming "every1" has the same reaction. She has been torching folks for a minute now, also believe she was a distant fan of Ned Stark and heard that the townspeople cheered for his beheading
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:03 PM   #2614
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Best thing about last episode was The Hound. His character has been well treated throughout the show, he along with Theon, Jaime Lannister and Jorah Mormon was one of the hugely flawed that all had to die heroically to receive any redemption.
At least that's the plan they created for them all quite clearly only to have Jaime Lannister u-turn back towards damnation.

Hmmm.

Maybe they are saying that deflowering a middle aged manly virgin is so repugnant that it'll make you yearn for certain death?
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:14 PM   #2615
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Quote:
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"lots of people" is better than the people on Twitter assuming "every1" has the same reaction. She has been torching folks for a minute now, also believe she was a distant fan of Ned Stark and heard that the townspeople cheered for his beheading
Easy to blame the people for cheering Ned’s execution because we the viewers knew the truth. But the Lannister’s hadn’t revealed their cuntiness to the people yet, so they had no reason to doubt Ned was a traitor. Also, the story takes place over the course of years. A lot of the kids she torched probably weren’t even born when Ned was killed.

Everyone she’s killed up til now had it coming.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:20 PM   #2616
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Still not as bad as the ending of Mass Effect 3 though.
That remains to be seen... wait until we see what color the last episode is.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:53 PM   #2617
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I will say that this whole "rushed pacing" seems spot on.

It feels like they just want the show to be over, and resolving the plot period has a far higher precidence than satisfaction. I'm getting the same feeling of a desperate abruptness as that from the final season of Sherlock, the ending for Netflix Punisher, or even way back with the last episode of that Mortal Kombat TV show where, since the show was cancelled, they just killed everyone the end.

There's not much satisfaction in this, and I say that as someone who has zero idea about the books vs the show. Seems like if they had taken more episodes to flesh out some of these moments so they don't seem like straight out "what the fuck?"
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:54 PM   #2618
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Did Arya get the horse at the same place she Eddard got beheaded?
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:59 PM   #2619
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I think the horse well def be sitting on the throne before all things are said and done
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:22 AM   #2620
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Plot Twist: The horse is a Targaryen. And a male. And older than Jon.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:08 AM   #2621
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so... it'll be king bran at the end of all this, right

can't see dany surviving long enough to take the throne properly

jon doesn't want it (HE DOESN'T WANT IT), so if dany doesn't shank him he will probably do what he always does and retreat to the wall or across the sea or otherwise run in literally any direction away from king's landing

doubt it'll be sansa, she seems pretty happy as lady of winterfell; equally dubious it'll go to arya

def won't be tyrion or sam or davos on the throne, though i imagine they'll all end up in the small council (if tyrion isn't killed for letting jaime go)

unlikely it'd go to gendry, so... yeah, i guess bran? king three eyed raven I
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:12 AM   #2622
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Yep.

Not to mention Jaime's arc seems kind of pointless. All that slowly built up redemption for him to just run back to cersei and die with her.
i've thought about this a bit and i think jaime's redemption was always a bit of a red herring. he SEEMS like he's on the road to redemption and even occasionally acts with real valour but then again he's a knight, so that's not that special; under every apparently selfless act, the fact remains he is an infatuated, incestuous, attempted child murderer who always crumbles for his sister

i think we're so conditioned to believe tv should adhere to morally or otherwise fulfilling arcs - people atone for their sins, achieve redemption, get what's coming to them etc - so it's jarring when it fails to happen. but people are more likely to let you down than they are to fundamentally change who they are and surprise you with some grand swing to redemption. jaime deciding at the last moment that it's all too hard and he should run back to cersei is frankly perfectly apt for him as a character

likewise cersei; we feel her death was underwhelming because she was an awful person, so she should get her just desserts, right? well, yeah, but the world doesn't work like that, and sometimes evil people just end up getting crushed to death by the falling ruins of a city without any sense of poetry or ever having to appreciate the magnitude of their own awfulness /shrug
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:34 AM   #2623
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Well, he did rape Cercie during his "redemption" so was it really a redemption? Also, had the Tully uncle murdered and poisoned Old Lady Tyrell.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:05 AM   #2624
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And the whole baby catapult threat
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Old 05-15-2019, 07:43 PM   #2625
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this is my point... people complaining that his 'redemption' arc was 'thrown out the window' because he went through the physical and emotional ringer only to pack it in and run back to cersei anyway... i'm saying it was a perfectly reasonable act for someone of his established character, with or without the hardships and epiphanies endured over the course of the show.

is it satisfying to see, for us as viewers? maybe not. is it believable? absolutely
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:02 PM   #2626
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Well, believable isn’t always the right choice, and when you spend a number of seasons actually getting people to root for a sister fucker who tried to murder a child, it’s disappointing to see them throw it away just because that’s more realistic.

Likewise you’d have a point on Cersei if the whole show followed that formula. But this show has excelled at giving its villains satisfying comeuppance. To set that bar only to abandon it with the end of the series greatest villain is inconsistent.
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:29 PM   #2627
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fair enough, but any disappointment we feel over jaime's path and his failure to see it through is probably on us for being coaxed into rooting for a sister-fucking would-be child-killer in the first place

that is not a description that would engender any kind of support in any other show

anyway, my point doesn't evaporate just because the show is inconsistent in its execution; the fact remains that, regardless, sometimes evil people don't have to confront the monster inside before they die, whether or not the series has acknowledged that prior to now

i'm not saying i agree with the choice (esp. in cersei's case, as i am def in the camp who feels a little miffed by the way she went out); i just don't think it's as inexplicable as its being made out to be by the extreme people who are, like, petitioning for the season to be rewritten and filmed because of it, as though that is a realistic outcome to expect
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Old 05-15-2019, 08:52 PM   #2628
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I bet Jon Snow gains control of the dragon and has Bran warg it and try to kill Dany only to find out she doesn't die from fire. So Bran will warg into the Night King and kill her but be unable to Warg back out because of that mark on his arm and start the cycle all over again.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:09 PM   #2629
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I’m not saying your wrong Mitch, I just don’t think those choices lead to good television in this case.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:43 PM   #2630
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i too have acknowledged that i don't think the choice necessarily makes for satisfying television

i feel like we're actually not really disagreeing at a fundamental level. i'm not defending the idea's execution or implementation so much as its base validity as a creative choice
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:11 AM   #2631
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While it is technically basely valid as a creative choice, it is generally going to be a poor creative choice in most circumstances. This one included. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done, especially when the thing being done is just a giant middle finger to anyone who bothered to invest into the story.

Like, if the show circled back to pretty much where the series started, except with different people in the roles of those that started, with a statement that basically nothing changed from the status quo no matter how hard the powerful try to shift things and everything will begin again as it just happened with different faces and names, that could be a statement made. But simply having unfulfiling narrative for the sake of having unfulfiling narrative countermands the point of said fiction.

If nothing means nothing, what is the point of investment?
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:21 AM   #2632
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Please sign the petition to see if HBO cares

http://chng.it/sDvGRjF2fL
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:51 AM   #2633
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Quit your whinging.

People are freaking out because they aren't getting a disney ending.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:06 AM   #2634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts View Post
Well, believable isn’t always the right choice, and when you spend a number of seasons actually getting people to root for a sister fucker who tried to murder a child, it’s disappointing to see them throw it away just because that’s more realistic.

Likewise you’d have a point on Cersei if the whole show followed that formula. But this show has excelled at giving its villains satisfying comeuppance. To set that bar only to abandon it with the end of the series greatest villain is inconsistent.

This is an astute post
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:08 AM   #2635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Quit your whinging.

People are freaking out because they aren't getting a disney ending.

Not in here they're not. This isn't Twitter, people here are mostly annoyed at the pacing. The red herring build ups are merely a disappointment.
Last edited by Seanny One Ball; 05-16-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:06 AM   #2636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Dave View Post
Please sign the petition to see if HBO cares

http://chng.it/sDvGRjF2fL
416,490 signatures as of now. Was featured on CNN.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:15 PM   #2637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
Quit your whinging.

People are freaking out because they aren't getting a disney ending.
People generally aren't upset at what's happening, but rather how it's happening.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:30 PM   #2638
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That petition is ridiculous.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:10 PM   #2639
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I don't know why people think wrestling isn't popular anymore. It seems like everybody has turned into wrestling fans with never being satisfied and whinging about everything.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:39 PM   #2640
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Or the product people have invested time into because it was once enjoyable has turned into a disappointing slog.
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