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Old 10-07-2020, 02:01 PM   #1
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in the grand scheme of things, did Shawn Michaels matter?
In the wrestling world he is obviously a name, one of the "greats".
Outside of fans, do common people even know who Shawn Michaels is?

He certainly didn't add to the "realism" of wrestling.

If he was erased from wrestling history, would it change all that much ?

Come down to my dungeon..eh...I'll stretch the feck out you



Only legends know..ehhh..
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:40 PM   #2
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I'm not sure I understand the question. You're suggesting that he only mattered to the world of wrestling but then posit that things wouldn't have changed all that much if he hadn't existed in the world of wrestling. Am I misunderstanding you?
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:48 PM   #3
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I’m not sure anyone in wrestling has ever been as big of a cunt as HBK was in the 90’s and I think the landscape of the WWF in that era would be very different without his bullshit nonsense.
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:59 PM   #4
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HBK also left wrestling right as it was about explode and came back after the boom
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by M-A-G View Post
I'm not sure I understand the question. You're suggesting that he only mattered to the world of wrestling but then posit that things wouldn't have changed all that much if he hadn't existed in the world of wrestling. Am I misunderstanding you?
pretty much
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:02 PM   #6
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I’m not sure anyone in wrestling has ever been as big of a cunt as HBK was in the 90’s and I think the landscape of the WWF in that era would be very different without his bullshit nonsense.
Oh, man. Is this going to devolve into another 'KLIQ WUZ DA GRTST!!! NWO N DX DREW ALL DA MONEEZ!!! vs. 'The Kliq only looked out for themselves' argument? In God damn 2020 of all years?!?
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:06 PM   #7
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Well it's not like Bret ever did
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:18 PM   #8
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To the people outside of wrestling, no, Shawn Michaels doesn't mean a damned thing.

Inside wrestling you would likely have to be a moron to argue against his value.

Questioning his value is fine though because he didn't bring in huge money on his own like Austin or Hogan or Rock did and I'd be hard pressed to believe his PPV buys would stack up against any of theirs.
He probably wrestled for bigger crowds when he was in The Rockers than as a single for a long long time.
That being said he was better in the ring than Austin, Hogan and Rock by a fair way. Austin wasn't far off when he was healthy but post neckbreak Austin isn't getting close.
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Seanny One Ball View Post
To the people outside of wrestling, no, Shawn Michaels doesn't mean a damned thing.

Inside wrestling you would likely have to be a moron to argue against his value.

Questioning his value is fine though because he didn't bring in huge money on his own like Austin or Hogan or Rock did and I'd be hard pressed to believe his PPV buys would stack up against any of theirs.
He probably wrestled for bigger crowds when he was in The Rockers than as a single for a long long time.
That being said he was better in the ring than Austin, Hogan and Rock by a fair way. Austin wasn't far off when he was healthy but post neckbreak Austin isn't getting close.
Yeah HBK is kind of in that second/third tier of stars.
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:27 PM   #10
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I think Shawn mattered because in my view, he was a huge part of transforming the top guy in wrestling to the post Hogan big character WWF to era, to edgy more adult, Attitude era. Would we still have had Austin and Rock bring that change around? Of course we would, but I think Michaels was sort of a bridge between the two eras.
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Old 10-07-2020, 06:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanny One Ball View Post
To the people outside of wrestling, no, Shawn Michaels doesn't mean a damned thing.

Inside wrestling you would likely have to be a moron to argue against his value.

Questioning his value is fine though because he didn't bring in huge money on his own like Austin or Hogan or Rock did and I'd be hard pressed to believe his PPV buys would stack up against any of theirs.
He probably wrestled for bigger crowds when he was in The Rockers than as a single for a long long time.
That being said he was better in the ring than Austin, Hogan and Rock by a fair way. Austin wasn't far off when he was healthy but post neckbreak Austin isn't getting close.
How dare you, I'm sure there are some women who found great joy for his issue of Playgirl magizine who aren't wrestling fans
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:04 PM   #12
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How dare you, I'm sure there are some Men who found great joy for his issue of Playgirl magizine who aren't wrestling fans
There we go
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:13 PM   #13
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I dunno about women, but plenty of gay dudes who don’t watch wrestling probably enjoyed that issue.
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:17 PM   #14
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I dunno about women, but plenty of gay dudes who don’t watch wrestling probably enjoyed that issue.
They need to call Roman.
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:42 PM   #15
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Absolutely, inside the wrestling world he is a major influence. How many superkicks do you see on every single episode of any wrestling show today?

Between NXT and Dynamite tonight, there will probably be 20 superkicks just tonight. That is because wrestling fans who grew up on Shawn Michaels want to wrestle like Shawn Michaels.

Outside of wrestling, non fans have probably heard of DX, even if they don't know Shawn Michaels by name. He certainly was never huge outside of wrestling, but he has done SOME things outside of wrestling like his hunting show or occasional acting.

That itself is more than almost every other former wrestler ever.
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Old 10-08-2020, 01:17 PM   #16
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There are very few wrestlers that have penetrated to the point where the general public would know who they are, and even then it’d be a generational thing. I’d wager on Hogan, Taker, Warrior being the ones that 90/100 people would know. Macho, Austin, Flair, and maybe Bret in the next tier. Michaels probably in the tier below that.

But yeah, huge influence within wrestling. There won’t be many modern wrestlers that won’t cite him as an influence.
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Old 10-08-2020, 04:11 PM   #17
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The Rock is top tier
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Old 10-08-2020, 04:13 PM   #18
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My dad mentioned Ric Flair recently when I asked my folks if they ever actually watched it when I had it on TV as a kid.

He seemed to like Ric Flair quite a bit, actually.
I was extremely impressed by that. It would be like me reeling of car engine info without just by hearing it drive past.
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Old 10-08-2020, 04:47 PM   #19
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The Rock is top tier
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Old 10-08-2020, 04:49 PM   #20
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Yeah massive oversight by me on that one.
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Old 10-08-2020, 04:52 PM   #21
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I dunno about women, but plenty of gay dudes who don’t watch wrestling probably enjoyed that issue.


Definitely.
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Old 10-08-2020, 07:33 PM   #22
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I’m not sure anyone in wrestling has ever been as big of a cunt as HBK was in the 90’s and I think the landscape of the WWF in that era would be very different without his bullshit nonsense.
They might have just ended up going bankrupt
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Old 03-30-2022, 08:16 PM   #23
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Shawn Michaels had a bit of mainstream attention at the time but his name does not ring out today the way Austin, Hogan or even Undertaker to the non wrestling fan. I would even go as far to say Triple H is more known to casual mainstream than Michaels. Don't get me wrong he is recognizable to a lot of his generation of non wrestling fans but I think the majority of younger crowd who does not watch wrestling would say "who?"
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Old 03-31-2022, 06:40 AM   #24
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No, wrestling is dead. It doesn’t matter. No wrestler matters.
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Old 03-31-2022, 06:57 AM   #25
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well he out drrew bret so if he didnt matter then bret certainly didnt
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Old 03-31-2022, 09:56 AM   #26
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We’ve had a fair bit of debate about “name value” and/or crossover appeal the last few weeks.

I think there’s very few wrestlers that have permeated general popular culture, and for this generation I think Taker and HHH are probably towrads the top of the list, ahead of an Austin. Austin’s run at the top was so short. Taker and to a lesser extent HHH have been billed as big deals for over 20 years, that’s a lot of fans that have come and gone but have seen these guys at the top of the card.

You’ve got your Rock’s that had a short run but became a megastar, and Cena’s who had a huge run on top and is breaking into the mainstream, and being the guy that the kids were into means your moms and dads also know who he is.

Michaels not being around from 98-2002 is a real hit to him as this was the time that most eyes were on WWE. This is where a lot of “lifers”/“hardcore” fans got their start with wrestling, and where a lot of “casuals” would have been tuned in before drifting away from the product.

I also think “didn’t have great impact in the mainstream” =/= “meant nothing in the grand scheme of things”. HBK is massively influential in changing the perception of what a main event star could be, and for all its faults what the “workrate era” looks like today.
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Old 03-31-2022, 09:57 AM   #27
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And now I’ve re-read the whole thread and see I already made those points in 2020
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Old 03-31-2022, 01:49 PM   #28
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Austin is definitely ahead of HHH as far as their place in pop culture goes. Short run or not, he’s gotta be top tier.

Andre’s up there too.

Like Gertner said, HBK is low 2nd tier/high 3rd. But he’s also the GOAT so... bonus points in the mattering department.
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Old 03-31-2022, 02:11 PM   #29
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I was at a pub quiz, maybe like 8-10 years ago with a group of about 7 or 8 people of different ages. There was a picture round with pictures of random celebrities to name and The Undertaker was on it. Not a single other person had any clue who he was or what he was famous for.

I think wresting fans in general overestimate how much any wrestler is known to the general public. I’d say your average Joe who doesn’t watch/hasn’t watched wrestling will only know The Rock and maybe Hulk Hogan. Anyone under the age of say 25 probably doesn’t have a clue who Hogan is either. However those under 25 likely know who John Cena is, but most over that age won’t know him other than from Suicide Squad.

I honestly think that’s it. Nobody else commonly known.
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Old 03-31-2022, 03:36 PM   #30
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Mattered a ton yes.
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Old 03-31-2022, 03:55 PM   #31
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It's gotta be the area where you're from because if that happened in my city I would say the vast majority would know who Taker was.
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Old 03-31-2022, 06:01 PM   #32
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I had definitely heard of The Undertaker before I was a fan. If you had asked me who Shawn Michaels was, I would have guessed singer or race car driver.
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Old 03-31-2022, 06:03 PM   #33
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I didn’t know Bret Hart, but I would have eventually got him from The Simpsons. I think I thought that was a made up wrestler as a kid.
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