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Old 12-31-2017, 02:46 AM   #121
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I expected some answers to the basic questions that 'The Force Awakens' sparked. Instead we got bullshits and swerves.

Who is Supreme Leader Snoke? Never mind, we prematurely killed him off... just like we did with Darth Maul because that worked out great. SWERVE

I also disliked nearly everything they did to Luke Skywalker's character and what/where he been. BULLSHITS & SWERVES (They did answer some questions here but I thought they just sucked. Whoever wrote this shit should be fired).

Rey's parents sold her for booze? BULLSHITS
Where did Rey learn all her Jedi shit from without any training? CUZ POWER

Finn might as well have not been in the movie. BULLSHITS

Leia has some Jedi powers but only uses them to save herself. BULLSHITS

Han Solo's death seems like a forgotten afterthought they barely touched upon or did anything to make it stand out for the characters it would matter to.

HOPEFULLY this movie is simply a filler movie until we get to the third movie and they actually answer some of those questions without the bullshits and swerves but I doubt it because now there are too many questions to answer in just one movie without everything feeling terribly rushed, haphazardly thrown together and for them to still progress the current mess of a storyline, action and plot.

This movie should have answered some of these questions and then those answers lead us into the next movie. Instead we just got more questions, bullshit answers and if this was any franchise besides Star Wars... I don't think people would have any reason to give a fuck about the next movie.

We got Porgs though, Yay! It gives Chewbacca something to do.

But its Star Wars... people will buy it no matter what. It will make a billion dollars so just make it and take the money.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:05 AM   #122
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So how did Han Solo die?
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:07 AM   #123
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Haven't seen the movie yet, only read the synopsis.

Can someone please explain to me what the fuck "exhausted Luke vanishes into the Force" means?
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:26 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. JL View Post
I expected some answers to the basic questions that 'The Force Awakens' sparked. Instead we got bullshits and swerves.

Who is Supreme Leader Snoke? Never mind, we prematurely killed him off... just like we did with Darth Maul because that worked out great. SWERVE

I also disliked nearly everything they did to Luke Skywalker's character and what/where he been. BULLSHITS & SWERVES (They did answer some questions here but I thought they just sucked. Whoever wrote this shit should be fired).

Rey's parents sold her for booze? BULLSHITS
Where did Rey learn all her Jedi shit from without any training? CUZ POWER

Finn might as well have not been in the movie. BULLSHITS

Leia has some Jedi powers but only uses them to save herself. BULLSHITS

Han Solo's death seems like a forgotten afterthought they barely touched upon or did anything to make it stand out for the characters it would matter to.

HOPEFULLY this movie is simply a filler movie until we get to the third movie and they actually answer some of those questions without the bullshits and swerves but I doubt it because now there are too many questions to answer in just one movie without everything feeling terribly rushed, haphazardly thrown together and for them to still progress the current mess of a storyline, action and plot.

This movie should have answered some of these questions and then those answers lead us into the next movie. Instead we just got more questions, bullshit answers and if this was any franchise besides Star Wars... I don't think people would have any reason to give a fuck about the next movie.

We got Porgs though, Yay! It gives Chewbacca something to do.

But its Star Wars... people will buy it no matter what. It will make a billion dollars so just make it and take the money.
Total swerve when they killed off the Emporer in Return of the Jedi. They should’ve answered all the questions about him.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:28 AM   #125
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Haven't seen the movie yet, only read the synopsis.

Can someone please explain to me what the fuck "exhausted Luke vanishes into the Force" means?
Luke force Projects himself onto another planet. They set this up earlier in the film that doing this that far across the galaxy you would have to be very powerful to do it and it would most likely kill you.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:31 AM   #126
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These movies are centered around the Force. The Force has been pretty dormant overall since Revenge of the Sith. It is now awakening across the universe. This is a major point to both films. Ren is extremely powerful but on the dark side. Darkness rises and light to meet it. Where you have Ren you must have a Rey.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:59 AM   #127
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So how did Han Solo die?
He got shot in a drive by
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:13 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwe2222 View Post
Luke force Projects himself onto another planet. They set this up earlier in the film that doing this that far across the galaxy you would have to be very powerful to do it and it would most likely kill you.
So does he die?
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:47 AM   #129
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So does he die?
Essentially yes. He vanished like Obi Wan and Yoda do when they die. All signs point to Luke now being dead (but he goes out as a major heroic symbol for the resistance)

Technically they can have out if they want to since his metal hand should’ve stayed behind but didn’t.

This ending and the scenes on the casino planet were my only gripes with the movie. I wanted more from Luke. I expect he’ll be a force Ghost in 9 but wouldve likes to have seen more.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:14 AM   #130
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Total swerve when they killed off the Emporer in Return of the Jedi. They should’ve answered all the questions about him.
While I agree with this statement, the scenarios are not really the same.
By the time Ep. 7 came out, we had already established a much larger cinematic universe that encompassed 6 movies instead of just 3.
With the exception of the clues given to us in some of the visual guide books or newer novels, extremely little is known about how the Empire survived and managed to become the Fist Order...that is where Snoke came in.
We're told that he is ancient and very powerful, it is given the impression that he has been pulling strings for a long time. He might at some point have even communicated with Palpatine in some capacity and Snoke appears to be responsible for the survival of the Empire remnants..which became the Fist Order.

Supposedly, he led them through the uncharted space where he allowed them to re-group. All of this seems pretty significant to me, specially the ancient evil part. How long has this guy been around? has he been plotting shit all along in the common universe? maybe we will find out.

I don't think the movie is bad but it suffers from some "bad movie" elements. I am not a fan of wasted characters, in the same way that I didn't like Hicks and Newt getting killed off like they're nothing in Aliens 3.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:16 AM   #131
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While I agree with this statement, the scenarios are not really the same.
By the time Ep. 7 came out, we had already established a much larger cinematic universe that encompassed 6 movies instead of just 3.
With the exception of the clues given to us in some of the visual guide books or newer novels, extremely little is known about how the Empire survived and managed to become the Fist Order...that is where Snoke came in.
We're told that he is ancient and very powerful, it is given the impression that he has been pulling strings for a long time. He might at some point have even communicated with Palpatine in some capacity and Snoke appears to be responsible for the survival of the Empire remnants..which became the Fist Order.

Supposedly, he led them through the uncharted space where he allowed them to re-group. All of this seems pretty significant to me, specially the ancient evil part. How long has this guy been around? has he been plotting shit all along in the common universe? maybe we will find out.

I don't think the movie is bad but it suffers from some "bad movie" elements. I am not a fan of wasted characters, in the same way that I didn't like Hicks and Newt getting killed off like they're nothing in Aliens 3.
The scenerios are identical. Its you that changed.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:26 AM   #132
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I’ll also point out that I can’t stand that everything in today’s culture needs an explanation so that stuff doesn’t really bother me much. Great if they do it but not something I think needs to be applied to all situations.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:22 PM   #133
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I don't get why Snoke getting killed off is such a gripe. Sure he's somewhat interesting, but Ren's internal conflict, Rey being a nobody symbolizing the force is for everyone, and their obvious bond but conflict is far more interesting than an scarred bad guy who was pulling the strings.

We knew absolutely jack shit about the Emperor in three original trilogy. Other than he had lighting hands and was calling the shots.

Ren is far more interesting and for me, the best new character they've introduced. He's not a typical bad guy. They've been pushing his inner struggle since the first film. It's my fave running storyline.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:54 PM   #134
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Im really into reys symbolism
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:11 PM   #135
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The scenerios are identical. Its you that changed.
The scenario being the same has nothing to do with why it's a problem for people. Yes, it's the same.

But the Emperor's presence didn't create a bunch of questions from viewers, because you had literally no knowledge whatsoever, of what took place before the movies. It was a blank slate, and you can get away with mysterious, all powerful characters, without explaining anything.

But now, there is a history, and that history creates questions about snoke's existence become harder for people to ignore.

I honestly don't think there is any point in debating this anymore though. The difference between people who are bothered by this, and the people who aren't comes down to how we watch these movies and how invested we are in the overall lore, and how that is presented in the films. Some people are going to care, some aren't.
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:15 PM   #136
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Justshows how young you are
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:15 PM   #137
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"Emporer didnt create a bunch of questions"

Sure kid
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:27 PM   #138
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I remember wondering about his origins, but I din't feel like I needed the answers because there was literally nothing before those movies.

In this situation, if you take a look at the star wars story as a whole, there is a part in the middle that is completely missing. It would be like watching a New Hope, and then skipping to Jedi. That's what it feels like to me, seeing all this go down with no explanation of snoke and how he built the first order. I didn't need my questions on the emperor answered.
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:29 PM   #139
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The Emperor's presence didn't create a lot of questions, that is a valid statement. The movie isn't a fucking nuclear bomb but for us that expect a bit more from the lore it is rather disappointing.

I think Fignuts hits it perfectly, for some people throwing characters away is not a problem and for others..it is.

I work as a media analyst for a TV marketing firm so I see plenty o f storytelling...and I have been a fan of the saga for quite some time and have the credentials to show it considering that I was interviewed for the local paper to showcase my collection. I care about the lore..be it Snoke, Darth Maul, etc.. and in that..I am not a fan of characters being thrown away and perhaps the most..disappointing thing that has come out of this movie is the "us" vs. "them" mentality that has grown out of the fan community. For some folks, if you didn't like it you are an unbearable fan boy and if you did..you are a genius.

The movie is a not trainwreck but is no masterpiece either. There are a lot of cool moments. As Anthony Daniels pointed out before the TFA..its kind of hard to capture the magic of something so strongly the second time.
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:33 PM   #140
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Never mind the fact that they took what could have been a great villain with interesting motivations and a backstory that ties to previous films and characters, and who strengthens the star wars story as a whole, but instead we get a throwaway character who is incredibly adept at the force BECAUSE REASONS, and in the end, is about as necessary as Admiral Holdo.
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:41 PM   #141
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Holdo was the worst

With that said both of you are toonyoung to have a calid opinion how how people reacted to the emporer. Figgy was 1 years old and Luigi wasnt sperm. Its literally the same. Its themsame conversations 30 years later
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:42 PM   #142
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I have lived this twice now
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:43 PM   #143
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Except now i get to listen to an infant and someone who was prehuman tell me it didnt happen, which is an added bonus
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:50 PM   #144
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I remember wondering about his origins, but I din't feel like I needed the answers because there was literally nothing before those movies.
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:53 PM   #145
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Like, ok people asked questions about the emperor when the films came out. I fail to see how that helps your argument that snoke isn't horribly wasted potential.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:00 PM   #146
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You remember wondering when you were 1. In other words you remember nothing because it never happened.

Snoke enhanced the story between the characters he was meant to and the star wars tradition of mysterious villians lives on. You guys who are new to the party seem offended by this.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:06 PM   #147
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Destor, do you not know what a VHS tape is?
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:16 PM   #148
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Also comparing characters like Boba Fett, Maul, and Greivous to Snoke is ridiculous.

In previous films, those characters were just henchmen to the big bad. Their origins were mysterious, but what you did know about them made sense.

Snoke IS the big bad, and everything about him flies in the face of the saga's history. Which is fine as long as you FUCKING EXPLAIN IT
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:20 PM   #149
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He's clearly not the big bad. And as a kid born in the 80s, watching Star Wars as a 10 year old, I never questioned origins about the Emperor because I was too young to care.

Even now watching it, however, it's pretty clear that he's nothing more than a plot device tugging on Vader, pulling him to the dark side to combat Luke trying to pull him back to the light.

The heart of the trilogy was Luke and his father's conflict. The emperor was a tool to help that story. Just like Snoke is a tool to help the story between Ren and Rey.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:27 PM   #150
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If you think snoke is the big bad you dont get it.

Comprehensive list of star wars villains withback stories given in films:

Darth Vader and Emproer Palpatine.

Vader got his in 5 and 6 and expanded on in 1-3. Palpatine in 1-3.

In other words most back story in the franchise comes 30 years after the characters die.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:27 PM   #151
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Maybe in 2050 youll get this snoke story you want so bad
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:28 PM   #152
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And the only thing vader got in 5 and 6 was his last name. That was it.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:29 PM   #153
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IF YOU WANT BACKSTORY READ SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIALS. Thats how its been since 1977.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:31 PM   #154
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I mean, he's the big bad in the sense that he's the one pulling the strings. Obviously Kylo is the main villain of the trilogy.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:41 PM   #155
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If this new generation of Star Wars and its fanbase are just cool with not caring about huge details like Snoke and the First Order's rise than that's further proof that perhaps this franchise just ain't for me anymore.

There's a pretentious vibe around the main series so far with fans giving stunts passes (Rey's OP? So what! Snoke? Just a plot device, you're just a baby when Sedious debuted!), there's not gonna be sensible improvement. Especially as said that you're painted as 'not getting something' when you criticize such glaring mishaps (a trait previously inclusive to DCEU diehards).

I'll watch Eps9 and Solo and whatever else, but the brand is slipping off of my top tier list of things I dig. It's just not my jam anymore. I'll just stare at the twin sunset.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:52 PM   #156
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Again, this comes down to how people view these movies and star wars as a whole.

When I saw the original trilogy for the first time, sure I was curious about Vader and Palpatines backstory. But I didn't feel like I needed that information because those movies were all there was.

But now you've got 6 movies that have established a history, and the rules that said history plays by. So when I watch the new movies the questions I have have DO need to be answered, because otherwise the overall Star Wars story doesn't make sense. And that's why this is such a divisive topic. Because you have people who only care about judging the movie on it's own merits and how it evolves it's characters, and then you have people like me who see it as a small part of a whole, and have a problem if something doesn't fit in that bigger picture, even if it effectively strengthens other characters in the movie.

And you can try and argue that's on me, but frankly that's bullshit. The people that write this know that it's a part of a larger picture, and ignoring that and creating a plot device that contradicts that larger picture just because you're too lazy to think of anything else, is bad writing.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:57 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
If this new generation of Star Wars and its fanbase are just cool with not caring about huge details like Snoke and the First Order's rise than that's further proof that perhaps this franchise just ain't for me anymore.

There's a pretentious vibe around the main series so far with fans giving stunts passes (Rey's OP? So what! Snoke? Just a plot device, you're just a baby when Sedious debuted!), there's not gonna be sensible improvement. Especially as said that you're painted as 'not getting something' when you criticize such glaring mishaps (a trait previously inclusive to DCEU diehards).

I'll watch Eps9 and Solo and whatever else, but the brand is slipping off of my top tier list of things I dig. It's just not my jam anymore. I'll just stare at the twin sunset.
...new generation says the child who didmt live it until vhs and who now who wants them to not be authentic to themselves. The films havent changed, you have. Maybe you dont like the formula, thats fine, just dont act like its the films fault. Theyre just doing what they have for decades.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:58 PM   #158
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If youve out grown star wars thats fair but theyre super consistent films
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:05 PM   #159
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There's very little detail given about the Empire's rise in the original film from what I recall. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't remember too much more than a general summary as to why they were there. The Emperor isn't seen until the second, and isn't a major player till the 3rd.

Even then, he's not the main villain. Vader is. Whether people like it or not, the Emperor was a tool to develop Vader as a character and give him a moment of redemption.

That's all Snoke is. A tool to further the plot and give the real main characters, Ren, who's clearly the big bad, and Rey something to do. Not to mention, trilogy isn't over yet. We don't know what they plan on doing in the next film. Snoke could very well be explained, even if briefly, in the next one.

Hinting at Ren's fall to the dark side has been a running storyline that's now played out but has not been completed in the last 2 films. But he's clearly the big deal here. Much like Vader was. Not the guy sitting in the chair barking orders at them.
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:06 PM   #160
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You're right. Star Wars has always been poorly written. Should of expected it would be shit.
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