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Old 05-26-2019, 08:10 PM   #1
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What does the ideal 1998 WCW look like to you?
This subject has always fascinated me. One of the biggest dropped balls in wrestling history was WCW Starrcade '97. The general consensus seems to be that Sting should have walked in, steamrolled Hollywood Hogan and won the WCW World Title without much difficulty.

Starrcade that year was WCW's greatest success on PPV, and only WrestleMania V had done better than it. Bret Hart had just been exiled from the WWF and was arguably one of the hottest acts in wrestling and WWF's rightful champion. The nWo were just completing their hottest year. Diamond Dallas Page had arrived after working with Randy Savage. Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio had delivered a five-star match on PPV, for whatever that was worth to audiences back then. Ric Flair still mattered and was cutting great promos. Goldberg had debuted and was nowhere near what he would become, but was something around the corner.

Since I became a wrestling fan, I've seen people talk about how mismanaged 1998 WCW was, and how Sting getting screwed around was potentially a jump the shark moment for the company, even though ratings would get stronger before they got worse. But I've always been murky as to what, exactly, people were really hungry for from WCW in 1998. What are your ideas?

I'm genuinely curious as to what programs, angles, stories, pushes, feuds, etc. people were really craving at the time, and how they think about the period in hindsight. What do you think the Starrcade '98 main event should have been? In hindsight, a lot of people would say Hogan vs. Goldberg, but that couldn't have been anticipated in late 1997, and that necessitates Hogan getting the belt back somehow.

Some guiding questions:

* What is your plan for the Starrcade '98 main event?

* What exactly do you do with Bret Hart?

* Does Sting lose the WCW World Title before too long? If so, then to whom?

* Who do you elevate in 1998?

* Who gets phased out?

* Hogan's contract was expiring at the end of 1997. Do you re-sign him? Keep in mind the problems with the Starrcade '97 finish, his creative control and that Vince McMahon has not hit his stride with Steve Austin in the WWF just yet.

This is one of the more fascinating periods in history to me, and it's one that gets talked about in a responsive way ad nauseam, but give me some of that creative alternate reality stuff for me to sink my mind into.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:20 PM   #2
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The hilarious thing is 1998 is the most profitable year in company history
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:21 PM   #3
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Absolutely, but a lot of things went wrong and a lot of balls were dropped that would see crows coming back to roost and other metaphors. You can address the question heading into 1999, if you like (which certainly wasn't profitable).
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:21 PM   #4
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I'll do a long answer in a bit. Too high to think and organize my thoughts.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:23 PM   #5
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I'll do a long answer in a bit. Too high to think and organize my thoughts.


I'll appreciate the response. Enjoy the buzz, man.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:24 PM   #6
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If anyone ever gets one of their posts edited by me, just chalk it up to me being too high, thinking i hit the quote button instead of the edit button.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:29 PM   #7
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The parallels between 1998 WCW and current WWE a crazy. Haven't really been watching much wrestling on TV recently, just PPVs but I've started listening to podcasts while doing farm work and have really enjoyed 83 weeks. I feel like WCW could have hit everything out of the park and the Time Warner merger would have still doomed them.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:13 PM   #8
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The parallels between 1998 WCW and current WWE a crazy. Haven't really been watching much wrestling on TV recently, just PPVs but I've started listening to podcasts while doing farm work and have really enjoyed 83 weeks. I feel like WCW could have hit everything out of the park and the Time Warner merger would have still doomed them.
Lol, no way. I don't want to derail my own thread with this, but Bischoff is a devious dick trying to cover his own incompetence. There's no way WCW gets canned if it's making them millions instead of costing them millions. The goal of television is to make money, not lose it.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:54 PM   #9
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Honestly I would have handled sting vs Hogan feud post Starrcade better, and save Hogan vs Goldberg for a PPV but otherwise I dunno what else I’d change. 98’ was pretty awesome.
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:56 PM   #10
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Oh wait Bret Hart

Probably treat him better for sure.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:11 PM   #11
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Just want to start by saying I'd have Sting win WW3 by dropping into the ring the NWO was in and clearing house and then moving over to the WCW guys and just point the bat at them and they eliminate themselves. Put over the point that everyone knows this is the match that needs to happen. Then do it in a cage with Sting clean no escape bullshit.

What is your plan for the Starrcade '98 main event?

I'd do Goldberg vs Hogan there building Goldberg up all year leading to it.

*Does Sting lose the WCW World Title before too long? If so, then to whom?

Sting chooses not to participate at Souled out so I'd have Souled Out be kind of a NWO splintering show. Hogan vs Savage for Hogans rematch would headline the show along with other NWO vs NWO stuff as Sting influenced other WCW talent not to appear. Build that WCW pride and have Sting be the back bone and only want to face WCW guys. Hogan would go over but the NWO is essentially dead as none of them can get along. Hogan losses to Sting again after the NWO try to help but end up cost in Hogan. NWO is done and Hogan still does the Hollywood gimmick and the DDP stuff with Leno, Rodman and Karl Malone. Sting faces WCW guys like Lugar, Booker T, Benoit, The Giant until Bash at the Beach where he looses to Bret Hart.

* What exactly do you do with Bret Hart?

I liked the initial idea of going with Hart and Flair. I'd ideally work that to a Hart Foundation vs 4 Horseman feud. Once Bret wins that he and the Hart Foundation are the heel faction of WCW now since the NWO is dead and challenges Sting at Bash at the Beach. Hart wins but essentially merges the Hart Foundation with the NWO in the process. Show ends with NWO reunited and Hart as the WCW champion and Hogan and Rodman in support of Hart. That works until Halloween Havoc where Hogan and Hart square off and that's when the run the Montreal Screw job bit and Hogan wins the WCW championship back. Hart goes into Hitman mode after that taking out NWO members left and right. Have Hart vs Savage at Starrcade 1998.



* Who do you elevate in 1998?

Raven and Jericho for sure. Once Sting drops the WCW championship and can't get it back from Hart with the NWO rebirth, he falls to a even darker place and Raven takes notice. Starts messing with Sting indirectly where no one really knows who's doing it. Have it be revealed as Raven around Halloween Havoc and build towards a Starrcade match.

With Jericho I'd just give him a real program with Goldberg. I'm not going to put the title on Goldberg so quick so Jericho would be his first real feud.
If still have Goldberg destroy him but working with Chris would get him ready for what he'd have to do with the title a bit. Obviously just feature Jericho more and keep the man happy because I think coming back to the Goldberg fued would work for him in 1999. I'd have him in the US title picture at 1998 Starrcade.

Goldberg stays undefeated with the US championship until he wins WW3 and wants a WCW championship match at Starrcade and is therefore forced to relinquish it. Tournament for that title follows and Goldberg beats Hogan at Starrcade.

* Who gets phased out?

I don't use Ultimate Warrior but other than that I don't think you phase a lot of people out. Still at a point where the young talent like Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, and Booker T need a few years to get to the main event but you can give them a sniff of it here and there.

Really hard to do these because I could think about it all day but typing it out is a chore.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:20 PM   #12
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Lol, no way. I don't want to derail my own thread with this, but Bischoff is a devious dick trying to cover his own incompetence. There's no way WCW gets canned if it's making them millions instead of costing them millions. The goal of television is to make money, not lose it.
Like has been said they made bank in 1998, mostly because of 1997. They still had some good stuff going in 1998. Thunder being put on them also has a lot to due with their problems. If you want to believe Bischoff he says that they'd take the money WCW made and give it to other projects within Turner Media at the time. They really didn't take wrestling seriously.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:25 PM   #13
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My god..They had so much talent to not know what to do with it all!
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:45 PM   #14
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So for Starrcade 1998 my main matches are:

Sting vs Raven in a Raven's Rules match.

Bret Hart vs Randy Savage

Jericho vs DDP for the US championship tournament.

Hogan vs Goldberg for the WCW championship.
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Old 05-27-2019, 09:09 AM   #15
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There could be books written about this.....Needless to say, all the big money contracts would not be coming for free, as they would essentially have to be "jobbed out" to the younger talent....

Bret is the most interesting case IMO, I'd definitely have him start off coming in with Flair and I like the idea of a 4 Horsemen & Hart Foundation feud with Flair & Bret at the helm.... you could tease for months of Benoit being in the middle, with both attempting to get him on their side, all the while Benoit could be feuding with someone else...

I wouldn't change a thing with Goldberg except for keeping the streak intact for much, much longer.... In my world, Goldberg defeats everyone on the roster at least once, clean in the middle, holding off on giving him the title as long as possible.

Literally millions of possibilities and a good chunk of them would definitely play out better than what transpired....
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post

* What is your plan for the Starrcade '98 main event?

My immediate reaction is Hogan Vs Goldberg, but I don't know how you keep Hogan a heel until 98 Starrcade without the NWO (more on that later). He really sucked in WCW outside of that role. I would probably build Bret Hart vs Goldberg as my Main Event.

* What exactly do you do with Bret Hart?

Feud him with Flair
Feud him with Sting
Finish the year with Goldberg

* Does Sting lose the WCW World Title before too long? If so, then to whom?

He should have at least held the belt until the summer. Have Bret beat him at Bash at the Beach and begin the build to Bret vs Goldberg

* Who do you elevate in 1998?

Jericho
Wrath
Eddie
Goldberg
Booker T
Scott Steiner
DDP
Kanyon/Mortis
Raven

* Who gets phased out?

Luger, even though he and Liz were a trip as a couple
Rick Steiner
The Giant (it was time to go to the WWF. He would reduced to nothing)
Piper
Hogan from the title picture



* Hogan's contract was expiring at the end of 1997. Do you re-sign him? Keep in mind the problems with the Starrcade '97 finish, his creative control and that Vince McMahon has not hit his stride with Steve Austin in the WWF just yet.

Yes because there's money to be made with Sting rematches and the NWO vs Wolfpac. He could have feuded with Nash, Hall, which hadn't been seen before. Those Wolfpac shirts were HUGE sellers. I have the two factions feud, but by the Spring there's no NWO. You can keep Hogan doing special feature matches He's still a big money name.
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:24 PM   #17
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:27 PM   #18
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Almost forgot how lame that was.
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Old 05-28-2019, 03:51 PM   #19
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Would make sure not to resign Hogan. Have him go to WWF and fuck up Austins run.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:01 PM   #20
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Goldberg beating Hogan for the belt was probably the first full blown markout moment I ever had as a fan. I'll never forget it.

But it was objectively a terrible business decision to give that away on free TV. Thing is though, if you go to the night Goldberg won the belt and change their mind right then and there - how long can you push out Hogan/Goldberg?

Can't do it at Bash at the Beach as it's like a week later. Having Goldberg's big win happening at Road Wild in Sturgis would feel underwhelming. Fall Brawl was kinda like the Rumble in that the show was built around a specialty match, ditto for World War 3.

So that leaves you with Halloween Havoc or Starrcade. Suppose you could do Hogan/Goldberg at Havoc, give Bret the World War 3 win and make Goldberg/Bret the Starrcade main event.

But I feel like it's a better story with Goldberg chasing, winning World War 3 himself to challenge the champ. Can you stretch Hollywood Hogan out to Starrcade?
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:02 PM   #21
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Disco Inferno should have been allowed in the nwo
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:07 PM   #22
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He was in the Wolfpac
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:10 PM   #23
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I seem to remember Hogan in the Wolfpac. Did this happen?

When WCW was already dying I mean.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:25 PM   #24
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I'm fairly certain he didn't
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:29 PM   #25
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Hogan technically joined the Wolfpack when the nWo factions merged. The main players (Hogan, Hall, Nash, Luger, Steiner, Bagwell) all wore the red and black while the B-team (Stevie Ray, Norton, Adams, Horace, Vincent) kept wearing the black and white.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:30 PM   #26
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
Hogan technically joined the Wolfpack when the nWo factions merged. The main players (Hogan, Hall, Nash, Luger, Steiner, Bagwell) all wore the red and black while the B-team (Stevie Ray, Norton, Adams, Horace, Vincent) kept wearing the black and white.
Oh yeah, something like that.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
Hogan technically joined the Wolfpack when the nWo factions merged. The main players (Hogan, Hall, Nash, Luger, Steiner, Bagwell) all wore the red and black while the B-team (Stevie Ray, Norton, Adams, Horace, Vincent) kept wearing the black and white.
They were called NWO Elite.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:35 PM   #29
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Remember being confused, because they didn't really show every episode of Nitro here and one day I see him wearing black and red.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:36 PM   #30
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They were called NWO Elite.
Point is - he wore red.

BETTER DEAD THAN RED!!!
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:37 PM   #31
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lol I liked a segment they ran where the B-team members showed up to a bunch of shitty rental cars while the elite guys got a limo

Curt Hennig bitched about it one time too many and got kicked out
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:38 PM   #32
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nWo wasn't even the best stable Hennig was a part of in 1999
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:09 AM   #33
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Quote:
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So for Starrcade 1998 my main matches are:

Sting vs Raven in a Raven's Rules match.

Bret Hart vs Randy Savage

Jericho vs DDP for the US championship tournament.

Hogan vs Goldberg for the WCW championship.
I appreciate the time you took to reply. Thanks for that. Those are some good matches.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:48 AM   #34
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I went to starcade 98. that would have been more enjoyable than what I got to see
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:28 AM   #35
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I enjoyed WCW in 1998....1999 wasn't as good but seemed not so bad after the dreadful 2000.

Creatively, I enjoyed WCW 1998 as it was. I wouldn't have had Nash beat Goldberg to end the streak though. Wouldn't have waited and waited and waited....for someone on his level to come along.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:10 AM   #36
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D'Lo Brown jumps ship and gets a decent enough push to move up the card. He jumps back and forth between WCW and WWE, moving up the card each time much like Jeff Jarrett did.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I enjoyed WCW in 1998....1999 wasn't as good but seemed not so bad after the dreadful 2000.

Creatively, I enjoyed WCW 1998 as it was. I wouldn't have had Nash beat Goldberg to end the streak though. Wouldn't have waited and waited and waited....for someone on his level to come along.
That's the key to me....Goldberg was getting a bit more stale towards the end of his run, and the screwjob I could live with as to end the streak, but it felt like Nash was not the guy.

Booker T seemed like the one to make the most sense to me, but he should have been built WAY better to get on Goldberg's level, and the only way to do that was for him to feud with the likes of Nash, Luger, Hall, Hogan, Sting, etc. and come out on top
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Old 05-31-2019, 03:12 AM   #38
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I think the problem with fucking Goldberg over like they did was that it made him just another guy that could be fucked with. I think part of Goldberg's appeal was that it was a clean deal when he was out there.
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:52 AM   #39
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I've never had the answers to this question, so I'd like my ideas to be torn apart by anyone with more knowledge from the time. And a lot of this comes from hindsight on my behalf, which makes it cheating.

You've got Goldberg brewing and Bret Hart has come in. Even if you can't see how big a star Goldberg is going to be right now, you should be at least shaping Bret up for something. So the WCW Title probably needs to go around a heel's waist. So you need to get that thing off Sting at some point.

Lex Luger got the belt in 1997, and it actually did quite well, but if I remember correctly, Hogan winning it right back kind of killed Luger dead as a babyface a bit. He did have more charm as a cheeky heel. It would make sense, even if the program itself wouldn't deliver that well in the ring, for Luger to turn on Sting -- perhaps out of envy of Sting achieving what Luger couldn't to the extent. Luger doesn't need to join the nWo to do this, but he hypothetically could if you wanted to keep the faction strong and build it around top heels you are actually going places with, like Hogan, Nash, Hall, Luger, Savage (who would be winding down) and Steiner (who would be rising up).

Hogan is probably the biggest bet to get the belt onto a heel for Goldberg to smash. That means you'd ideally get through the Hogan/Hart story before then. Hogan didn't really want to work with Bret, but if he's going over and it's to get Hogan into the main event of Starrcade, maybe he's more willing? You could possibly do something where Flair and Bret are fighting over Benoit's services (I think Simple Fan also suggested this too), but maybe Benoit actually joins the nWo? It'd be an odd fit, but it'd be...interesting.

I dunno. Man, WCW got so messy.
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:25 AM   #40
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Luger pretty much won the belt because it was like the 100th episode of Nitro. He was more of a placeholder while they built to Sting, although he got over more than people expected. I know people think he stinks but Lex was really good in spurts, especially his 96/97 run. I enjoyed heel Lex with Jimmy Hart. I thought it was great.
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