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Old 12-07-2015, 07:51 PM   #4761
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Boras is the worst thing about sports, but also the very best at doing exactly what he is supposed to do. Hard to like the guy but damn you gotta respect the size of his CANTALOUPES
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:55 PM   #4762
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nvm


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Old 12-07-2015, 07:56 PM   #4763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
Plus with that nasty 1-5 lineup (Maybin-Kinsler-Miggy-VMart-JD) + whatever LF they sign (Gordon or Cespedes in a perfect world), pitching will be an afterthought (wishful thinking)
I would be very interested in seeing if Cespedes goes back to Detroit. He was very vocal about not thinking Detroit should punt at the deadline with the Wild Card picture so cluttered, was quoted as being unhappy when Price got moved, and then they traded him the next day to make it 4 teams in 2 years.

Wonder if there's any "bad blood" on his behalf towards Detroit even though it's a different GM. That being said, money talks. Angels might be in on him too.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:56 PM   #4764
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Alrighty that answers that
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:57 PM   #4765
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I'm not sure how his camp feels but that's definitely justified. Every single Detroit fan I know would absolutely love to see him back. Everyone was crushed when he was traded (though it was understandably the right move)
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:57 PM   #4766
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Feel like the Mets are going to take some heat when Cespedes inevitably goes elsewhere. But I just don't think he has the range to play CF full-time, and that's the only apparent spot for him in NY unless they wanted to send Michael Conforto down to AAA, which I wouldn't agree with at all.

Will miss watching that goddamn cannon in the outfield, tho.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:59 PM   #4767
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LF is really a gaping hole right now though. JD is solid in right. Maybin/Gose platooning CF is... serviceable (not ideal). You put a guy like Cespedes in LF and I'll take Maybin/Gose all day.

Now, though. Having Collins in left makes Maybin/Gose look a lot shakier. Hmm. Hope Avila's got one more magic move up his sleeve before all is said and done.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:06 PM   #4768
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It's better that they don't extend him. Of the four outfielders on the market, I think Cespedes has the biggest bust potential. He was amazing this year, but he's also 30 and he wasn't any where near the player he was this year in 2013 or 14.

His primary skill is power and he's now 30 and doesn't have a good track record of avoiding outs. That's probably not going to improve much and the last thing Detroit needs is being tied into a wrong side of 30 outfielder who can't avoid outs and won't wield the power he once did.

They should sign Heyward or Upton. Both those guys fit nicely for them.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:10 PM   #4769
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Think DET will go after Upton?
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:12 PM   #4770
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uhhh Cespedes hit 35 homers and 42 doubles this year... what's all this "lack of power" talk
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:13 PM   #4771
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But I do agree SOMEWHAT about the age thing, if only because he's reportedly seeking a 6-year deal


But didn't he join the league late? I swear he was just signed by the A's like 3 years ago
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:14 PM   #4772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
Think DET will go after Upton?
If Verlander pitches like he did to close the season, Tigers fans will be all-in on Upton





...you meant Kate, right?
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:37 PM   #4773
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6 years might be too much for Cespedes unless he goes strictly DH near the end of it. Would require to be on an AL team though.
Last edited by Emperor Smeat; 12-07-2015 at 08:40 PM. Reason: whoops had wrong tab open
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:39 PM   #4774
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Wrong thread there chief
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:59 PM   #4775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockShot View Post
Dodgers keep Chase Utley around on a 1-year deal.
Anything that gives me another excuse to watch this is a wonderful thing.



Doubt Citi Field will ever hear that kind of heat again. Love how it goes from mild boos for the jobber players, to louder ones for Greinke/Kershaw, and then Utley just gets absolute nuclear heat to the point where they have to keep the camera on him longer.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:07 PM   #4776
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Red Sox getting Carson Smith is massive. Wow. Loving these moves.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:12 PM   #4777
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Dear Pirates. Do something. Anything. Be different this year.

Thanks

Signed any Pirate Fan who has ever watched in the last 20 years.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:20 PM   #4778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
uhhh Cespedes hit 35 homers and 42 doubles this year... what's all this "lack of power" talk
I didn't say he lacked power. I said he's in the wrong side of 30 and has little secondary skills to hello offset what is going to be a decline in power, his biggest trait.

He just put up his best year, at age 30. Maybe he's got one more year or two like this in the tank but It's unlikely. Obvious his plus d in left has tons of value but that's not what he's gonna get paid for.

Over the next two or three years I feel Cespedes is going to start hitting a very hard wall. He hasn't come close to posting his rookie year on base and we're now going on 5years in. Doesn't look good long term for whoever gives him the likely 7 year deal.

I think Detroit and Upton is really great fit.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:49 PM   #4779
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The Dodgers/Chapman trade is now on hold. Chapman allegedly involved in a domestic violence situation this fall.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:01 PM   #4780
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Cubs Kris Bryant filed a grievance against the team with the reason due to the service time clause in his contract. Team knew going as far back as May that he had filed a complaint with it becoming public today.

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Originally Posted by ESPN
The dispute stems from the team's insistence that Bryant needed more seasoning in the minor leagues and keeping him there, thus preventing him from being eligible for free agency after the 2020 season. Because Bryant spent the first eight games at Triple-A Iowa, he won't be eligible for free agency until after the 2021 season. He was called up on the first day after the deadline.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:05 PM   #4781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by road doggy dogg View Post
If Verlander pitches like he did to close the season, Tigers fans will be all-in on Upton





...you meant Kate, right?
100p

Everyone all-in on Kate Upton
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:02 PM   #4782
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Yeah well Tony Lacava got J.A. Happ, suck on that
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:04 PM   #4783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
I didn't say he lacked power. I said he's in the wrong side of 30 and has little secondary skills to hello offset what is going to be a decline in power, his biggest trait.

He just put up his best year, at age 30. Maybe he's got one more year or two like this in the tank but It's unlikely. Obvious his plus d in left has tons of value but that's not what he's gonna get paid for.

Over the next two or three years I feel Cespedes is going to start hitting a very hard wall. He hasn't come close to posting his rookie year on base and we're now going on 5years in. Doesn't look good long term for whoever gives him the likely 7 year deal.

I think Detroit and Upton is really great fit.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree on this one... I do agree that a 6 or 7 year deal would be foolhardy though
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:19 PM   #4784
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I hate when everybody thinks at 33 all of a sudden you suck.

The Mets don't make the playoffs without Cespedes. Well didn't hurt that the Nats had the worst management. They have unreal pitching and a TERRIBLE offense. Going to waste a lot of prime pitching years. Wilpons are the worst.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:37 PM   #4785
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If Cespedes were a perfect fit for the Mets and they chose not to sign him because they cheaped out, I'd be pissed off. But having seen the extremes of his game last year, I really just don't think he's that good of a fit long-term.

It's not even anything to do with thinking he'll get bad as he gets older. Grandy just had a fucking great year at 34. Cespedes can carry the team when on, but when he's cold he's basically invisible. Helplessly hacking at everything. From mid-September right through the World Series he was pretty well non-existent save for one game against the Cubs. And he doesn't have the range to play CF with regularity, which is what the Mets would need for him to do.

Will always appreciate what he did in August and the trade was totally worth it. But there are just too many holes in his game to put all your eggs in the Cespedes basket moving forward.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:38 PM   #4786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilchuk View Post
I hate when everybody thinks at 33 all of a sudden you suck.

The Mets don't make the playoffs without Cespedes. Well didn't hurt that the Nats had the worst management. They have unreal pitching and a TERRIBLE offense. Going to waste a lot of prime pitching years. Wilpons are the worst.
Except nobody is arguing what he did this year. The debate is whether or not anyone believes a one dimensional hitter is going to be worth a long term deal, and my opinion is no, he's not. He's going to get a monstrous deal to be close to what he was in year c two and three of his career, which is a good but not great player.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:40 PM   #4787
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Zobrist supposedly has narrowed his list down to the Mets, Nats, and Giants. Giants are viewed as longshots now because they'd want him to primarily play LF but he'd prefer to play the bulk of his time at 2B (with the flexibility to fill in elsewhere as needed due to injuries/off-days for other guys, of course).

Really hope the Mets' courting of him pays off, they've made it no secret to him that he's their top priority. The more I think of it the more I want him on the team. Not even worried about he's age. He's a young 35 since he didn't even get a full year in the bigs until he was 28.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:48 PM   #4788
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Fair assessments. Who is going to carry that offense though? I personally wouldn't want Cespedes long term either. There is something to be said about a suitcase at that stage in his career.

It's just going to be sad to watch that pitching be wasted.
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Old 12-08-2015, 12:02 AM   #4789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spilchuk View Post
Fair assessments. Who is going to carry that offense though? I personally wouldn't want Cespedes long term either. There is something to be said about a suitcase at that stage in his career.

It's just going to be sad to watch that pitching be wasted.
I don't think they need one guy to carry the team. They just need a better overall top-to-bottom lineup from the get-go. If they get Zobrist and Span they'd be looking at something like:

CF Span
RF Granderson
2B Zobrist
3B Wright
1B Duda
C d'Arnaud
LF Conforto
SS Flores

Maybe I'm crazy but I think they could actually compete with that. Duda may be the only bonafide power hitter in that group but in such a big park they really don't need a ton of sluggers. They need guys who can get on base and move the line along. That lineup won't scare you like the one with Murphy and Cespedes did, but it's still a far better one than they threw out there for the first 3 months of last season.

Also helps that I'm extremely high on Conforto. I could legit see him hitting out of the 3 hole at some point soon.

Plawecki, Tejada, Lagares, and Michael "highest paid bench coach in the league" Cadaver as your backups. Would love to see them bring back Kelly Johnson too.
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:11 AM   #4790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
I just pointed out how bad Brandon Phillips was despite having a 100 plus RBI season. If you looked solely at RBI you would think he had a good year. When you actually look at his own context neutral numbers you find that he was actually below average as a hitter and his RBI tally are completely misleading and, in his case, completely useless in observing his overall production.
That's why I didn't say to look just at RBI. My point is that to claim to want to see the whole picture, then ignore an entire stat doesn't make sense to me. If it's useless, why track it?

Quote:
Pitchers pitching differently based on "fear" or lineup protection is largely false. The only thing ever determined when it's been studied at length is the "protected" batter might draw an extra walk or two or put an extra ball in play but the results on batted balls or overall outcomes of an bat weren't even marginally effected based on perceived "protection".
Not everything needs a number attached to it. In a big spot, a guy like Donaldson is going to warrant a different approach than Dominic Brown because he's just a more dangerous hitter and is more likely to come up with a big hit.

Quote:
RISP is also a context dependant stat. It's also pretty useless. Matt Kemp drove in 100 runs. Based on what you guys are saying, he's an RBI guy and is adequately doing his job. Yet, he as barely league average offensively and with runners in scoring position was actually less than league average. It wasn't dramatically less but less is less. He hit an uninspired 270 with risp. Yet the 100 RBI lead you to believe he does his job or has some sort of skill in the position.

He really doesn't. He is just another example of a mediocre hitter slotted in one of the two best lineup spots to drive in runs, and league averaged his way to a high RBI count that doesn't tell you he actually wasn't very good at bat for at bat.

I get RBI has been staple of baseball stats that we've been conditioned to place importance in but it really isn't an important stat any more than pitcher wins. The guy driving in a run is just the beneficiary of a prime lineup position.
Not what I'm saying at all. Knocking in runs still matters, though, so you'd like to have a guy who can take advantage of his chances. Is it based on lineup spot and surrounding players? Sure, but you don't get put in the 3-4-5 hole for nothing.

Quote:
The Yankees, the Rangers, the Astros, and the Nationals all failed to have even on player hit the heralded 100 RBI mark. 4 of the top ten teams in total runs scored. Two of this teams were in the top 3 in runs. But no 100 RBI guy. The mvp of the national league fell short. He wasn't anywhere near the lead. You wouldn't discredit him for not even being in the top ten in RBI right? You wouldn't discredit Mike Trout because at least ten guys finished with more RBI right? Would you say those guys were better than him?
You seem to be making assumptions here. I never discredited anyone or said anyone was better based on RBI. What I said was RBI carries at least a bit of weight because you still need someone to get runs home. I never said a team needed a guy with 100 RBI, or that a player even needed that many to be considered good/great.

Quote:
Gorgeous just stated "it could have to do with rest of the team" if a great middle of the order bat only drives 70. That's exactly what an RBI is. It's a "what the rest of my team did prior to me getting an at bat" stat.
And I didn't dispute that, so I'm not sure why you're mentioning it. It's still a part of the equation, even though there are now more parts to examine.
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:13 AM   #4791
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Should put a Kalyx Triad post warning on there. Seemed like such a good way to do it.

Damn you, discussion forum.
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Old 12-08-2015, 06:51 AM   #4792
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If I were the Dodgers I'd just back out of the Chapman trade. With all the bullshit going on in the NFL with Greg Hardy and Ray Rice, last thing you need is a distraction.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:50 AM   #4793
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I'm reading about that stuff now, hadn't heard about it before. Seems like there were a lot of conflicting stories about what happened.

Allegedly she found something on his phone. She says he choked her, "but didn't prevent her from breathing," but police didn't find any redness on her neck. He says he poked her on the shoulder/neck area to say "don't talk to me that way." His driver says Chapman then locked himself in the garage and fired eight shots with his handgun. Then his driver wouldn't talk to police again.

That's according to the report on Yahoo. Seems wacky/terrible any way you look at it. And I agree, ClockShot, I wouldn't want that mess (despite how great Chapman is).
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:25 AM   #4794
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From a baseball/moral standpoint I would absolutely love if something wacky like this would let me sign him for 1/2 his value now.

But from a 2015 standpoint, unfortunately will probably have to avoid this one since people are morons and will make #Social #Media posts about it all offseason long
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:47 AM   #4795
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Clubs have yet to confirm, but reportedly STL and SD made a deal.

Cardinals get: Jedd Gyorko

Padres get: John Jay

We now go live to Damian Rey for his thoughts.
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Old 12-08-2015, 11:09 AM   #4796
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Cardinals will get the better end of that deal, just like they always do.
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Old 12-08-2015, 11:31 AM   #4797
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Jay was injured a bunch last year too, wasn't he?
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:15 PM   #4798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
Cubs Kris Bryant filed a grievance against the team with the reason due to the service time clause in his contract. Team knew going as far back as May that he had filed a complaint with it becoming public today.
This will go nowhere. Boras pushed for this (does he rep Franco too?) but isn't a frivolous idiot. This is posturing for the next negotiations in the collective bargaining agreement. Every team currently does this and are well within their right to do so.
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Old 12-08-2015, 01:24 PM   #4799
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Franco is represented by Ryan Royster, who likely moonlights as the lead guitarist for Frank Drebin and The Anal Mess.
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:14 PM   #4800
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Hi screech! I'm live on the scene at the winters meeting from my couch with the fallout of the deal that sends Jed Gyorko to St Louis for Jon Jay.

Good deal for the Padres solely for the fact that they get out from under the $19 million owed to Gyorko over the next three years. Also opens the door for former first round pick Corey Spangenberg to helm second base full time. Spangenberg's combination of speed, defense, and contact approach at the plate lead to a 2 WAR season over 108 games.

Jay also seemingly fills a platoonspot in center. He's a contact oriented hitter who has a career 287 hitter and 350 plus on base with adequate, maybe better defense.

Jay is pretty much a stop gap but the Padres needed a lefty bat and the fact Jay can play respectable defense in center is a plus, as they now have a decent platoon between Jay and Upton, Melvin.

It's clearly a salary dump but a productive one at least.
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