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Old 11-03-2018, 09:06 PM   #1
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What if the WWE decided NOT TO BE AWFUL?
Like would they make more or less money?

It's time to make TPWW MEAT again!

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Unlike traditional grills which cook food from a single, direct heat source, the Pit Barrel® Cooker’s cylindrical shape and “Hook-and-Hang” method places the food in the center of the action, heating the meat from all sides at once, producing consistently great-tasting, perfectly cooked meat every time.

Also have some popcorn.
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:11 PM   #2
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I don't think it matters. None of this matters.
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Old 11-03-2018, 09:50 PM   #3
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They dont know they are awful. So this may never happen.
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:01 PM   #4
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They’re making more money now than they ever have. There is no incentive for them to do anything different.
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Old 11-03-2018, 10:26 PM   #5
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What if I decide to be sober? A lot of what if's being tossed around here.
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:38 PM   #6
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They would obviously make more money if they were better. They’re content now though. They have their core audience of people who are gonna watch and give them money no matter what and they don’t seem to care to put in the effort for more.
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:59 AM   #7
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Live attendance is falling, they know they have to do something, whether it’ll be good or interesting is another matter.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
They’re making more money now than they ever have. There is no incentive for them to do anything different.
IF this is true, it is only because of this one guy from another thread. That uber Reigns fan.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:58 AM   #9
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If they put effort in then they'd be a drop-off when that stops working and they decide they want to cut back again. Better to make money with a pedestrian and sustainable effort. Plus, if they were good, they'd have stars, and then they'd have guys with leverage at contract negotiations time, or more talent crossing over into other forms of entertainment. The crossing over is probably good, because if people see wrestlers as legit stars, they might take up-and-comers more seriously too, but they want a bunch of drones.
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:36 AM   #10
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In trying to do something new there's usually an initial drop off, so even if it was "good", if Vince wasn't into it he'll look for any reason to stop. So no. It'll always be like this until he dies at least.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:32 AM   #11
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I don’t buy the initial drop off idea. I’ve had this discussion before with people who think that improving their storylines, methodically building characters and making everything happen for a reason would turn the existing audience off. It wouldn’t. No one watching now is going to stop if the show just got more compelling. There may be people who don’t give a fuck whether it’s more compelling but it’s not a deal-breaker.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:41 AM   #12
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I don't think it'd be a huge drop off by any means, but there would be some growing pains with a change in direction. You literally need the hypest fucking shows week after week after week to create any amount of buzz and boost in viewership. It'll take more than a month of really good storytelling. As much as WM14 and Tyson gave a jump start to the Attitude Era, it was only after a year and a half of a much better and more gritty product that set the foundation were they even ready for it.


Only after a while would you see an actual boost in the midst of dealing with your standard fluctuations. And I think Vince would look for any reason to bail on trying something new that he's not completely sold on. So if it's Roman Reigns at the top, with their standard shitty exposition-laden, over-produced storytelling and the ratings are steadily dropping, Vince will "let it ride" and "make excuses" because it's his guy and his style. But if the product is artistically better and less produced and you're dealing with the status-quo for any amount of time, no matter how short, Vince will bail because he's not interested and he doesn't like it.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I don’t buy the initial drop off idea. I’ve had this discussion before with people who think that improving their storylines, methodically building characters and making everything happen for a reason would turn the existing audience off. It wouldn’t. No one watching now is going to stop if the show just got more compelling. There may be people who don’t give a fuck whether it’s more compelling but it’s not a deal-breaker.
I get what you're saying, but you'd be surprised how many people are adverse to good things. "I don't want no fucking common sense in my wrestling!" Look at the mouth-breathers who actually react to things like the Dean Ambrose heel turn. Kevin Dunn actually gets reaction shots of these people holding their head in confusion. People believe a match is going to end after one finishing move even when there is a table set up in the ring and no one has gone through it.

Wrestling fans aren't the smartest batch of people in the wold. A lot of us would like it to become water-cooler talk again, but I can see the current fan base, whatever you want to call them, being confused and off-put by a product that ties things together and where people actually get heat, etc. I've seen a bunch of people online whinging about heel promos that hurt their feelings, etc.

I think the rate of increase would completely overshadow the rate of decrease. I think most of the viewing public want something better. Hell, that's is why they're turning off and most of them are in their 50s. But good wrestling would be scary and unusual to some people.
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:49 PM   #14
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God that's a cynical way to view things.

I agree.
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:33 PM   #15
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It's cynical, but it's not based on nothing. The least the WWE could do is offer a boutique show that is actually good using main roster talent on the WWE Network. I'm not talking about NXT or 205 Live.
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:58 PM   #16
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Like outside the normal continuity or as an extra though?

I could see them using talent for a Lucha Undeground type project that wouldn't affect regular WWE broadcasting.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:21 PM   #17
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Nah, I mean like a one-hour version of a main WWE product.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:22 PM   #18
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It's pipe-dreaming, because that would just be hour one of Raw.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP View Post
They dont know they are awful. So this may never happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
They’re making more money now than they ever have. There is no incentive for them to do anything different.
Therein lies the problem. They're making money, so they don't know or care that they're putting out a craptastic product 9 times out of 10. They're like WCW in the late stages. If they scale back to settling down and making shows better, they'll lose money, and from a business standpoint, that's unacceptable as opposed to an issue of healthier sustainability. The videogame industry has a similar issue at parallel.

Would you rather make guaranteed, decent money for the next ten years, or make ALL of the money in the next quarter? (but what happens in the following quarter-? WHO GIVES A FUCK!!!?).

The thing that makes this sadder, to me, is that they'll do something like, say, try to put their foot in the door in the UK and try to edge out potential competitors when it became a new wrestling hotbed. And they did this not by putting on a superior show and letting the market decide, but by saying they get rights to what venues they run, and other promotions can't work them. If you're the only game in town, you don't have to worry about trivial shit like being good.

It's like they *know* they're shit, but they don't want to focus on not being shit, but instead, making sure their shit is the only thing available.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:11 AM   #20
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WWE shows are like a McDonald's hamburger. Made the same across every restaurant, so when you go into a McDonald's there is no uncertainty as to what you'll get. No uncertainty makes customers feel "safe" and stockholders feel "secure". McDonald's could introduce new menu items on the side to try to attract more customers, but their "main event", THE BIG MAC will always be a Big Mac.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
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It's cynical, but it's not based on nothing. The least the WWE could do is offer a boutique show that is actually good using main roster talent on the WWE Network. I'm not talking about NXT or 205 Live.
Thing is, NXT is already serving that. Supposedly.

They're supposed to be "grooming" talent. They actually book those shows. There are actually storylines and progression in additon to in-ring improvement. The *only* thing NXT isn't doing is touring to simulate the road.

There is more going on interesting in an hour per week of NXT than the 5 hours per week of main roster television. There was a point in time where RAW used to be that good and consistent on network TV. Now, we have this notion that NXT is only for the "hardcore fan". Why? They're doing stuff there that made RAW popular to begin with; what helped with the Attitude Era pop-culture surge. It is, in fact, what RAW and Smackdown should be more like. I mean, that's what they're supposedly being prepared to meet... right?

But then, those NXT stars that were supposedly being "groomed" for greatness show up on the main roster and they do absolutely fuck all. They aren't used. They are extras in skits. They job repeatedly. Any good will and hype they garnered from their "grooming" gets snuffed out in short order instead of cultivated. It's like growing a well-maintained garden, and when harvest time comes, you don't sell it or can it or eat it... you just pull all the shit out the ground and toss it in the corner of your yard to rot and attract vermin. What is the point of the excercise if you're not going to take advantage of your own set-up?
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
WWE shows are like a McDonald's hamburger. Made the same across every restaurant, so when you go into a McDonald's there is no uncertainty as to what you'll get. No uncertainty makes customers feel "safe" and stockholders feel "secure". McDonald's could introduce new menu items on the side to try to attract more customers, but their "main event", THE BIG MAC will always be a Big Mac.
But "secure" doesn't have to mean "bland" or "bad" or "lackluster" or "straight up garbage". If it does, I'll just go to Sonic, Hardee's, Rally's, Five Guys',or Red Robin instead.

I just don't want WWE to do something similar to they did a number of years ago when they were faced with the exodus crisis (injury, retirements, and walk-offs) where they had to scramble to build new stars - a thing they should always have had if they built the undercard to a next man up level... and I fear a similar thing is going to happen, but with the audience at some point soon in the future.

They're not going to address the quality of the product until AFTER the people are finally fed up with all the "meh". Then, they'll try to do better to get folks to come back instead of laying the groundwork of doing better now so no one is tempted to stop watching.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:12 AM   #23
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I think the rate of increase would completely overshadow the rate of decrease. I think most of the viewing public want something better. Hell, that's is why they're turning off and most of them are in their 50s. But good wrestling would be scary and unusual to some people.
I don’t know. I think that dumb wrestling fan stereotype that makes up a lot of the audience and isn’t turned off by Vince’s 1st grader sense of humor and storytelling ability is the same dumb wrestling fan stereotype who is just in awe watching the bright lights and fake violence. Neither of which are gone in this fantasy world. They still tune in because “rasslin’” and then more people tune in because “good rasslin’”

I don’t think it would be as much of a culture shock as you think. It’s not like we’d be going from a Larry the Cable Guy show to Shakespeare the next week. It’s still the dumb wrestling dumb wrestling fans love.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:27 AM   #24
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History question: What year did the KANE/UNDERTAKER HAVE MAGIC LIGHTNING POWERS thing happen? Was the pre-Attitude? If so how retarded was the rest of the show at that time?
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:59 AM   #25
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It was at the beginning of the Attitude era. I actually stopped watching because I thought it was dumb and I was 10 lol
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:27 AM   #26
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I think we can all agree that the Attitude was a significant transformation for the WWE.

I don't have, however, any ratings information in front of me. It seems like if the theory is correct, right at the start of the Attitude period there would be a considerable drop off of fans.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pit Barrel King View Post
I think we can all agree that the Attitude was a significant transformation for the WWE.

I don't have, however, any ratings information in front of me. It seems like if the theory is correct, right at the start of the Attitude period there would be a considerable drop off of fans.
I think it was around WM 14 when the viewers really started investing again.
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Old 11-06-2018, 05:42 PM   #28
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The attitude era is overrated as fuck. Crazy shit started happening. It drew in viewers because "what the fuck is happening right now?" but it wasn't sustainable.

I think the general idea is that the attitude era ended at the same time of the WCW buyout (early 2001). Which also happens to be the time wrestling started heading downhill.
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Old 11-06-2018, 05:52 PM   #29
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The attitude era is often used as an excuse as to why wrestling can never be good anymore. They went from IC title matches main eventing Raw to crazy fucking "Tyson and Austin! Tyson and Austin" and world title changes ending the show and now you can never go back to the non-hotshotting days.

Yet now WWE HAS actually tried to go back to the midcard main eventing shows. The problem is that in the old days, the midcarders were over because they were hyped up during the same shows the stars were on. So while you're waiting to spend $30 to see the main eventers either live or on PPV, you'll happily tune in to see the midcarders fight for the IC Title for free. Now it's main event or nothing. No one feels special so... fuck it. There's too much entertainment out there to watch something just because it's the only thing on TV.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:34 PM   #30
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The attitude era is overrated as fuck. Crazy shit started happening. It drew in viewers because "what the fuck is happening right now?" but it wasn't sustainable.

I think the general idea is that the attitude era ended at the same time of the WCW buyout (early 2001). Which also happens to be the time wrestling started heading downhill.
Well, is that what the ratings show though? Whether or not the attitude era was a good thing or sustainable, did it cause a brief drop in viewership? Did "change" cause a significant drop in the audience?

I honestly don't think the core of Attitude was "crazy shit happening" I think it was stars that were over with the crowd and who got over with the general public. Mankind, The Rock, and Austin were insanely over. DX was a hot act despite wrestling like shit.

In my opinion it was a combination of "everyone's a superstar", "let's do heavily scripted scenes that don't fit into the broadcast style", and "the title doesn't mean shit" stuff that drove me and most other people away from the product.

My wrestling geek dream scenario is to be given the ropes and to come out at the beginning of raw and let the entire roster know that they aren't special, that none of them are superstars. I'd take the script for that night and burn it in a trash-can. Then I'd fire Seth Rollins because he's awful.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:53 PM   #31
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The attitude era also had a lot to do with how those stars were handled. It's easy to say that there's no Austin, no Mankind and no Rock around right now. But Put those guys into today's environment where every promo is scripted and every story is bland and innocent and how do things change? Also, the ratings definitely show a decline after the attitude era and a rise when it started.

Seth Rollins would still be a midcarder in that era though, of course. Because he is HORRIBLY overrated by people who are desperate to crown anyone as a star nowadays. But what about the Fandangos of the world? I feel like he'd be a fucking legend in another era.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:31 PM   #32
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watch any movie that Rock and Austin did and you'll know how shitty they'd be in this new era.

Scripting has to fucking end.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:48 AM   #33
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The attitude era also had a lot to do with how those stars were handled. It's easy to say that there's no Austin, no Mankind and no Rock around right now. But Put those guys into today's environment where every promo is scripted and every story is bland and innocent and how do things change? Also, the ratings definitely show a decline after the attitude era and a rise when it started.

Seth Rollins would still be a midcarder in that era though, of course. Because he is HORRIBLY overrated by people who are desperate to crown anyone as a star nowadays. But what about the Fandangos of the world? I feel like he'd be a fucking legend in another era.
I think people overlook how crucial the stuff that worked during the Attitude era was to carrying the rest of the shit. Without Austin, Rock, Mankind and even JR as a voice you could trust, none of that shit is keeping viewers coming back. But it's not in WWE's best interest to suggest that, and you have guys like Vince Russo still dining out on how hot the period was.

I think your point about the fans is fair. I don't think it would be a huge culture shock, but I think there would be something jarring about it. They've actually got a big problem with their fans, because now that they want to be part of the show and everyone thinks they're smart, they can reject even good wrestling things. We got Jeff Hardy back, but the fans wanted Brother Nero even though there was never money there.
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