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Old 01-17-2022, 01:50 AM   #63001
Tom Guycott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
with comedy we rob horrors of their power. its imperative that we tear these things down with humour otherwise we make gods of them.
It's a cool axiom, but it also lies against the "freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequence" line in the sand.

Also, again, the source is part of the problem. This is exactly a joke Dave would have buried someone else over. But since it's him saying it, he thought it would go over great. A five star joke. Six if he had said it in the Tokyo Dome.
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Old 01-17-2022, 02:01 AM   #63002
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Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
But since it's him saying it, he thought it would go over great. A five star joke. Six if he had said it in the Tokyo Dome.
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Old 01-17-2022, 02:03 AM   #63003
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you have freedom of association and meltzer also has the freedom to be wrong and he has the freedom to be a hypocrite too. its no small coincidence that the rise of poor mental health and the rise of comedy police are perfectly parallel. its a human coping skill that we have evolved over millenia that we have only recently decided should be done away with and we're another millenia away from having a replacement for it and it comes with a body count.
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Old 01-17-2022, 02:47 AM   #63004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Lets not kid ourselves. 7 stars.
That's only if he were telling it to Kenny Omega. Or maybe even the Young Bucks. Plans change.
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:03 AM   #63005
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lmfao accurate
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:03 AM   #63006
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The temp was not right for Charlotte's plastic.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:31 AM   #63007
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This whole Meltzer thing is like if a white guy made a joke about black people loving watermelon and then a black guy was like “ Don’t forget fried chicken.”

And then people became outraged… at the black guy.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:49 AM   #63008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
I mean it doesn't bother me personally that he said it. But in today's world? Sheeeeit that was about as dumb as it gets. We give Trump shit all the time for the stupid shit he said but not even he has gone this low. Don't act like we all don't know that holocaust jokes are considered the very bottom of the barrel and about the worst thing you can say in public. They have been damn near automatic cancellation for a long time now. Dave being Jewish is why I find his comment to be particularly egregious in that sense; if anyone should know better than to make light of it then it's him.

And Gertner. I love you. A lot. I'd dock with you bro. But there is no way in hell that saying "WWE is having the Elimination Chamber in Saudi Arabia because Auschwitz wasn't available" is anything other than a holocaust joke. A bad joke, but still a joke.

And wtf does Bruce Prichard have to do with this anyways? Fuck that guy too. He needs to retire like 15 years ago. His brother was cooler anyways.
Bruce Prichard started this constant "let's continuously try and play gotcha with Meltzer" garbage with his podcast.
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Old 01-17-2022, 11:15 AM   #63009
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And that's how they reinvent their product, and subscriptions.




Next, it'll be how many subscribers leave one for the other. And sadly, it'll be the most interesting thing to happen in all of professional wrestling.
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Old 01-17-2022, 01:15 PM   #63010
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Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
It's a cool axiom, but it also lies against the "freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequence" line in the sand.

Also, again, the source is part of the problem. This is exactly a joke Dave would have buried someone else over. But since it's him saying it, he thought it would go over great. A five star joke. Six if he had said it in the Tokyo Dome.
Do you think it holocost him any subscribers?
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Old 01-17-2022, 01:31 PM   #63011
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He wasn't even joking about the Holocaust. It's just faux outrage from people who hate Meltzer.

"The WWE are holding an event in a country that murders their own people and has committed war crimes and atrocities because apparently a place that committed war crimes and atrocities where people were murdered wasn't available. How is that in any way shape or form joking or belittling the Holocaust.
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Old 01-17-2022, 01:50 PM   #63012
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that post has no connection to the holocaust even in passing
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Old 01-17-2022, 02:23 PM   #63013
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The problem is Meltzer was not actually trying to be funny, he was trying to bury WWE. He is so far down that path it clouds his judgment. It is more important to make WWE look bad then be mindful of what comes out of his mouth, to the point where his warped perspective is WWE and the Holocaust are the same level of bad. He did not even realize how wrong that was until outside criticism came, then he issued a half hearted apology to save face. The fact that he said he had family members killed there so it is ok that he said it is further proof that he does not understand why what he said is offensive to other people.

And no it is just not Bruce Pritchard people playing gotcha, it was Jewish Leaders and Organizations that condemned him using THAT to pop his listeners, making them also think that is alright to say.
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Old 01-17-2022, 02:37 PM   #63014
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Meltzer probably thought he could get away with it because he’s Jewish. It’s far from the most tasteless thing anyone has ever said or done, but people are getting fed up with the guy’s shit. So when he makes a comment about women having fake tits (something I defended him for), and a quip using the holocaust to try and prop up a complete non-point (something l’m not because fuck this guy), people are going to call him out for it.

It’s aim and tone. Everybody and their mothers can make the joke about a show called “Elimination Chamber” in Saudi Arabia. Dave tripping over his feet to make that joke and link it to Nazi Germany has got a few people going “Dude…” I mean, common sense would dictate that the show isn’t going to be called that (and likely never was). Because of stuff like this, funnily enough.
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Old 01-17-2022, 04:19 PM   #63015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
The problem is Meltzer was not actually trying to be funny, he was trying to bury WWE. He is so far down that path it clouds his judgment. It is more important to make WWE look bad then be mindful of what comes out of his mouth, to the point where his warped perspective is WWE and the Holocaust are the same level of bad. He did not even realize how wrong that was until outside criticism came, then he issued a half hearted apology to save face. The fact that he said he had family members killed there so it is ok that he said it is further proof that he does not understand why what he said is offensive to other people.

And no it is just not Bruce Pritchard people playing gotcha, it was Jewish Leaders and Organizations that condemned him using THAT to pop his listeners, making them also think that is alright to say.
I meant the whole "anti Meltzer" stuff began because of Prichard
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Old 01-17-2022, 04:54 PM   #63016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
I meant the whole "anti Meltzer" stuff began because of Prichard
He’s certainly given it a bit of wind. I mean, I never paid much attention to Meltzer until about…2015? I always assumed he got some stuff right, some stuff wrong. But I was aware of this “lol at people who trust the dirt sheets mentality.” But I also remember not believing a lot of stuff was like the sheets reported because it just didn’t make sense…and it turned out they were wrong.

Just a long-winded way of saying that I think there was definitely anti-Meltzer sentiments before Prichard, but that’s obviously been a big story in the development of Meltzer’s relationship with the internet crowds.
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Old 01-17-2022, 05:00 PM   #63017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
I meant the whole "anti Meltzer" stuff began because of Prichard
I can fairly say I thought Dave Meltzer was a d-bag LONG before Bruce Prichard said people should be Anti Meltzer.
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Old 01-17-2022, 05:17 PM   #63018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
This whole Meltzer thing is like if a white guy made a joke about black people loving watermelon and then a black guy was like “ Don’t forget fried chicken.”

And then people became outraged… at the black guy.
Your comparison might make sense...if there was someone else (that I guess would have to be non-Jewish) setting Meltzer up for the punchline. There wasn't. It was all him. He did it by himself.
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Old 01-17-2022, 05:34 PM   #63019
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The setup was WWE having a show called “Elimination Chamber” in Saudi Arabia. Meltzer’s joke was a response to that.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:04 PM   #63020
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LOL that's a bit of a stretch and is nowhere near the same thing as what you presented. Comparing WWE having a PPV for the last 20 years called Elimination Chamber to a white guy joking about black people loving watermelon? Are you going for an Xrod gimmick now? Is that what this is?
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:05 PM   #63021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
The setup was WWE having a show called “Elimination Chamber” in Saudi Arabia. Meltzer’s joke was a response to that.
Gas Chamber and Elimination Chamber are the same thing, because... Fed Bad?
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:13 PM   #63022
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Gas Chamber and Elimination Chamber are the same thing, because... Fed Bad?
In Germany they don’t call the event “Elimination Chamber” and I bet you’ll never be able to guess why!
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:20 PM   #63023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
LOL that's a bit of a stretch and is nowhere near the same thing as what you presented. Comparing WWE having a PPV for the last 20 years called Elimination Chamber to a white guy joking about black people loving watermelon? Are you going for an Xrod gimmick now? Is that what this is?
You realize WWE themselves changed the name of the PPV in Germany specifically to avoid this issue, right? So they were well aware of the issue with the title in certain settings and decided to hold the event in Saudi Arabia.

Now, you can argue whether people SHOULD be offended by that. But to find offense in the joke made by a Jew in response to it is some insane misplaced outrage.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:21 PM   #63024
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And what’s this about an “xrod gimmick”!?! You can insult me all you want but if you do it by implying that xrod is anything but a man with a very solid grasp of logic then I’ll have to object!
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:25 PM   #63025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme Olajuwon View Post
In Germany they don’t call the event “Elimination Chamber” and I bet you’ll never be able to guess why!
I think you think you are arguing against me, but there is a difference in Germany, the perpetrator, being sensitive to promoting the word chamber, and using the victims as a punchline. Bringing up the Holocaust as a joke to demean the Fed he dislikes because he likes a different Fed better is not a reasonable course of action.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:30 PM   #63026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
You realize WWE themselves changed the name of the PPV in Germany specifically to avoid this issue, right? So they were well aware of the issue with the title in certain settings and decided to hold the event in Saudi Arabia.

Now, you can argue whether people SHOULD be offended by that. But to find offense in the joke made by a Jew in response to it is some insane misplaced outrage.
I am unaware of Saudi Arabia murdering millions of people in a gas chamber. That is the comparison Meltzer made. Now he was probably having an issue with the Elimination part of the title, but that is not the comparison he made, and he was rightly criticized.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:36 PM   #63027
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Finally had to go look up what this Tweet was..... was gonna write a response, but writing it I realized that I don't actually care, so abandoning the post.
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:36 PM   #63028
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Wow! Can't believe that no good Tony Khan tweeted in support of Meltzer
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Old 01-17-2022, 06:36 PM   #63029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
I am unaware of Saudi Arabia murdering millions of people in a gas chamber.
…

I’m obligated by my own rule and a vow to TPWW to pretend that this is a smart observation. So… This is me doing that.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:59 PM   #63030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
I am unaware of Saudi Arabia murdering millions of people in a gas chamber.
Saudi Arabia has basically turned their whole area of the middle east into one giant Elimination Chamber at one point or another. Look at Yemen rn. They have bombed like 200k people into the next world and blown the whole place to smithereens and are intentionally stopping food and aid from getting in there. Like 10 million people are currently in a famine and at risk of starving to death with another 15 million having very very low food security. Millions of people made homeless. Masses of refugees.

It may not be a gas chamber but lets not be so blind as to pretend Saudi doesn't have an atrociously vile track record.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:11 PM   #63031
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I wonder if maybe WWE changed the EC name in Germany (I think they changed it in 2009, give or take a year) because of the way Germany is continually tightening the laws there around speech regarding the holocaust/Nazis? I believe they were doing a lot of modification to those laws around then doing with how to handle the subject when it was broached by media or on social media. Maybe the figured they would just change it to avoid any potential legal trouble down the line.

Haven't they changed it more than once since then? I think they use "No Escape" now. But I think there was another name for a few years in there somewhere.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:15 PM   #63032
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Serious psa though: If any of you ever go to Germany it is best not to even talk about the holocaust or Nazis. Like if you are on a tour or in a museum or something I imagine it's ok. But otherwise don't even risk it. You can find yourself in trouble in a hurry from the stories I've heard from guys I know who were stationed over there. One of my good friends got in some shit when he was off post drunk one night and made a dumb holocaust joke and the wrong person heard it.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:16 PM   #63033
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I absolutely understand that atrocities have been committed by SA. That itself is of course worthy of criticism. I need to state that clearly so we don't give anybody here the chance to miss the actual point.

The issue is Meltzer connecting the dots to Auschwitz because of "Chamber". The issue is Meltzer needing so badly to criticize WWE that he did not even consider that bastardizing the Holocaust to take a dig was not going to be received well.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:25 PM   #63034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
…

I’m obligated by my own rule and a vow to TPWW to pretend that this is a smart observation. So… This is me doing that.
This is quickly becoming the new "I have this person and that person blocked, so...". Did you read the rest of that post?

I am unaware of Saudi Arabia murdering millions of people in a gas chamber. That is the comparison Meltzer made. Now he was probably having an issue with the Elimination part of the title, but that is not the comparison he made, and he was rightly criticized.

Do not pick one sentence and try to represent it like I did not explain further, you are better than that.
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Old 01-17-2022, 08:38 PM   #63035
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:04 PM   #63036
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We know what this all comes down to.

MELTZER BAD
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:06 PM   #63037
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I heard Meltzer sneezed today.

He clearly did it for the sole purpose of shitting on WWE since Vince hates sneezing.
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:28 PM   #63038
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Herb Abrams invented Meltzer bad, for the record. Went so far as to name a jobber after him.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:18 PM   #63039
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What
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:27 PM   #63040
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I’ve wondered about the story behind that for years.
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