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Old 01-18-2019, 12:46 AM   #1
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WWE's current strategy of hoarding independent talent is lamentable
It is a sound business strategy. Take advantage of your resources and make things difficult for the little man - independent wrestling promotions. Is not this the same company that welcomed competition and touted their victory over evil billionaire Ted Turner's wrestling venture? I cannot wait to complain about how they are mistreating newly signed talent.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:48 PM   #2
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So what are they supposed to do? Not have a sound business strategy? McMahon told you himself, it's all about the monaaaaaaaaay.
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:21 PM   #3
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It's nothing new, it's exactly what he did in the 80's, why wouldn't he do it again.
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:33 PM   #4
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WWE isn't forcing talent to sign contracts.
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:45 PM   #5
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I've been saying it for a while but for several years now WWE's approach is to focus on making any potential competition worse vs. trying to actually make themselves better.

With AEW having legit financial backing, I'm hoping they'll need to reconsider this strategy.
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:49 PM   #6
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This is tame compared to some of the shit he did in the past. Remember when the first Survivor Series aired the same day as Starrcade? So Vince contacted all the cable companies and told them if they carried Starrcade, they would not get Survivor Series or any wwe show going forward.
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Old 01-18-2019, 05:59 PM   #7
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I think they should let talent out of their contracts if they don't want to be there. To be honest, and this is going back quite a while, I don't know why anyone would want to work for WWE. It hasn't been wrestling for a long time.
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Old 01-18-2019, 07:23 PM   #8
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Even at the expense of the Colts, I hope the Jaguars win a Super Bowl and the XFL fails again. That would be one epic fuck Vince year.*

*Because in my fragile mind, Vince hates the Kahns with a passsssion now.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:18 PM   #9
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They aren’t hoarding anything. If talent doesn’t want to be there they can sign elsewhere.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:39 PM   #10
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The Jaguars seem unlikely to win a Super Bowl, but the XFL failing is a good bet.
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Old 01-19-2019, 02:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I think they should let talent out of their contracts if they don't want to be there. To be honest, and this is going back quite a while, I don't know why anyone would want to work for WWE. It hasn't been wrestling for a long time.
Money/lifelong dream stigma, I'd guess. Exposure. Even working there for a bit probably gets you more pay elsewhere when you leave.
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Old 01-19-2019, 01:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
The Jaguars seem unlikely to win a Super Bowl, but the XFL failing is a good bet.
The Jags aren't good, but the XFL will again be a failure. I think it had a far better chance in 2001 then it does today.

2001 XFL had good innovations like the sky cam, NFL has had that for years now. Football itself is less popular today than it was in 2001, and it is in far more often too, so the desire for more football is really not there.

Despite that, there is also another league that is launching before the XFL.

This feels like Vince being stubborn and thinking last time it was ended prematurely.

He already lost a ton of money selling stock to fund this league at like $30, instead of at $90 like it was 6 months later, or at $80 like it is today.

Before a single kickoff he lost $200 million in stock profit he could have made by doing nothing at all, twice as much as Tony Khan is using to fund AEW.

Nothing shows how out of touch Vince is today than him thinking the XFL will be successful.
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:11 PM   #13
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It’s him trying to erase one of his biggest public failures by...doing the exact same thing.
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:12 PM   #14
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I'm still trying to figure out why he thinks rehashing the XFL brand was a good idea
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:15 PM   #15
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I think part of it is that he’s a Republican, and he heard a bunch of rednecks whinging about black people expressing themselves freely, and he thought it a hot-button enough cultural shift to just promote an “alternative.” The XFL doco blowing his vision probably helped to.
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:33 PM   #16
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The only good thing to come out of the XFL was this amazing moment with our football coach:
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
They aren’t hoarding anything. If talent doesn’t want to be there they can sign elsewhere.
Okay, so what would you rather do... take a job where you make $50 a night and are appreciated or make $500 a night?

Yes, that's an exaggeration, but WWE has gotten into a habit of throwing a more comfortable amount of money at people who "have a name" on the indy circuit and, for the most part, not doing shit with them or even planning to. They mostly just take talent off the table so that they aren't making money for or gathering attention elsewhere.

This has actually been made worse by NXT, where they might get a false sense of upward momentum, but then when they get the call to the main roster, they're "just another guy". They've gone even harder with tournaments like the Mae Young and CWC, trying to sign talent that you know damn well they really wouldn't do shit with or see any value in (women and cruiserweights), but they appear to not want to take the chance to let someone else see value and capitalize.

People around here have poked fun at Ryder over the years, but seriously, the guy is mostly getting a paycheck to tour with WWE and barely do anything. When he was at his hottest, there wasn't like there was a viable place to go where he could truly say "push me or else". Hell, even when Cody walked, it was considered a huge gamble, even with the beginnings of a new renaissance in the industry going on about that time. They signed CM Punk way back when, and had zero plans for him. They have Daniel Bryan, and fired* him. Twice. And basically gave him paid leave for a few more years. They turned KENTA into a joke, and Shinsuke Nakamura isn't that far behind. Gallows & Anderson are around in spite of WWE treating their tag team divisions like scum. Same with War Machine Raiders. They have the Kanelis' family because the company had a raging boner for Maria and her husband had to tag along, but they clearly have no plans for him to be worth shit. Ricochet is hot shit in NXT right now, but main roster? If it ain't Rey Rey, it ain't worth doing, so you know he'll be on the purple brand holding the "this flippy shit is all you are" title for awhile until all his shine rubs off and he fucks off to oblivion or walks like PAC. Oh yeah, and PAC. Pretty sure 3/4 of UE is around just so those three guys who aren't Adam Cole aren't in ROH anymore.

There's plenty more, but you get the point. There are very few people they "really" want. Every person they have is one less person available for ROH, iMPACT, NJPW, and any other fed... only that strategy is getting less sustainable, since there are now more sources making more noise than ever before, and less guys having to sacrifice "what they love" for "more money".
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:58 AM   #18
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Gonna go ahead and tell WWE to fuck off Kacy so she can be our dream girl elsewhere
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Okay, so what would you rather do... take a job where you make $50 a night and are appreciated or make $500 a night?
I personally would rather take $500, but that's just me.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:53 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
I personally would rather take $500, but that's just me.
Anyone with a brain takes that.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Okay, so what would you rather do... take a job where you make $50 a night and are appreciated or make $500 a night?

Yes, that's an exaggeration, but WWE has gotten into a habit of throwing a more comfortable amount of money at people who "have a name" on the indy circuit and, for the most part, not doing shit with them or even planning to. They mostly just take talent off the table so that they aren't making money for or gathering attention elsewhere.

This has actually been made worse by NXT, where they might get a false sense of upward momentum, but then when they get the call to the main roster, they're "just another guy". They've gone even harder with tournaments like the Mae Young and CWC, trying to sign talent that you know damn well they really wouldn't do shit with or see any value in (women and cruiserweights), but they appear to not want to take the chance to let someone else see value and capitalize.

People around here have poked fun at Ryder over the years, but seriously, the guy is mostly getting a paycheck to tour with WWE and barely do anything. When he was at his hottest, there wasn't like there was a viable place to go where he could truly say "push me or else". Hell, even when Cody walked, it was considered a huge gamble, even with the beginnings of a new renaissance in the industry going on about that time. They signed CM Punk way back when, and had zero plans for him. They have Daniel Bryan, and fired* him. Twice. And basically gave him paid leave for a few more years. They turned KENTA into a joke, and Shinsuke Nakamura isn't that far behind. Gallows & Anderson are around in spite of WWE treating their tag team divisions like scum. Same with War Machine Raiders. They have the Kanelis' family because the company had a raging boner for Maria and her husband had to tag along, but they clearly have no plans for him to be worth shit. Ricochet is hot shit in NXT right now, but main roster? If it ain't Rey Rey, it ain't worth doing, so you know he'll be on the purple brand holding the "this flippy shit is all you are" title for awhile until all his shine rubs off and he fucks off to oblivion or walks like PAC. Oh yeah, and PAC. Pretty sure 3/4 of UE is around just so those three guys who aren't Adam Cole aren't in ROH anymore.

There's plenty more, but you get the point. There are very few people they "really" want. Every person they have is one less person available for ROH, iMPACT, NJPW, and any other fed... only that strategy is getting less sustainable, since there are now more sources making more noise than ever before, and less guys having to sacrifice "what they love" for "more money".
I think I get what you are saying, but WWE has roles for guys. You bring up Zach Ryder, he works hard, fills a role, makes good money doing it, what's wrong with that? You need guys to fill Main Event or whatever other jobber show is going. There are house shows daily all over the US and the world, they need talent to fill those shows as the stars aren't going to be there every night. A lot of these guys the wwe signs aren't stars, they are role players. Could they be stars in other companies that nobody watches, maybe. But you go where the money is when you're trying to pay bills.

It's not like Mike Kanelis matters at all so he fills a role. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan weren't exactly amazing when they first got to WWE because their style is different. They were able to grab the brass ring and become relevant but that is so rare. Not every one can be the world champ.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:23 PM   #22
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I would just hate being part of the WWE product. It'd be soul-draining as fuck. It's like a cult and you can't even do the thing you were trained to do in an authentic way, because you're in this bizarre plastic land.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post
I would just hate being part of the WWE product. It'd be soul-draining as fuck. It's like a cult and you can't even do the thing you were trained to do in an authentic way, because you're in this bizarre plastic land.
They are actors playing a role.
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:20 PM   #24
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They are actors playing a role.
Yeah, I wouldn't be exactly keen to be cast in a shitty drama that didn't make any sense either. You can always have pride in your work.
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:40 PM   #25
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Yeah, I wouldn't be exactly keen to be cast in a shitty drama that didn't make any sense either. You can always have pride in your work.
Dusty Rhodes wore polka dots "All the way to the pay window" as he said numerous times.

I get some people dig that starving artist life, but most people work for the money. Not saying either way is wrong, but look at the Colons. They could easily go bust their ass working in Puerto Rico like Carlito, or they can get paid for minimal effort or wear and tear on their bodies.

Primo has been around 10 years, traveling the world, making if I had to estimate probably on average $200,000 a year. Yeah he isn't killing it, but that is still a lot of money, and considering how little he actually wrestles, it's not like he can't easily keep going another 10 years.

WWE no longer even has mass yearly firings, and it's because WWE is financially the best they have ever been, and that is only going to get that much better come October when their new TV deals actually start paying out.

Point is, WWE has some really good job security these days. That along with a steady paycheck isn't that bad of a deal, no matter how underutilized they may feel.
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:20 PM   #26
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None of that is false. It just wouldn’t be for me. I can totally get why someone would bail on that life or be miserable.
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Old 01-21-2019, 01:03 AM   #27
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None of that is false. It just wouldn’t be for me. I can totally get why someone would bail on that life or be miserable.
Yeah for sure. A job is a job, guys probably like working for a living so why not do it for the biggest company in your industry? If they can make a better living at a different company go for it, but don't over estimate your self worth. I feel like the Revival are over estimating themselves much like Jack Swagger, and Ryback.
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Old 01-21-2019, 02:17 AM   #28
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Yeah for sure. A job is a job, guys probably like working for a living so why not do it for the biggest company in your industry? If they can make a better living at a different company go for it, but don't over estimate your self worth. I feel like the Revival are over estimating themselves much like Jack Swagger, and Ryback.
To be fair, Ryback was mega over for a time, granted 7 years later he still thinks he is that guy, but at least he can say he reached a height the others can't.
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Old 01-21-2019, 10:36 AM   #29
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Yeah I don't miss the current product at all lol
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:51 PM   #30
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Ryback was somewhat over, but I think people overrate how deep that popularity ran. It was a very superficial thing and I don't think it would have translated into much more.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:58 PM   #31
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He should be headlining Wrestlemania this year
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:40 AM   #32
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I think I get what you are saying, but WWE has roles for guys. You bring up Zach Ryder, he works hard, fills a role, makes good money doing it, what's wrong with that? You need guys to fill Main Event or whatever other jobber show is going. There are house shows daily all over the US and the world, they need talent to fill those shows as the stars aren't going to be there every night. A lot of these guys the wwe signs aren't stars, they are role players. Could they be stars in other companies that nobody watches, maybe. But you go where the money is when you're trying to pay bills.

It's not like Mike Kanelis matters at all so he fills a role. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan weren't exactly amazing when they first got to WWE because their style is different. They were able to grab the brass ring and become relevant but that is so rare. Not every one can be the world champ.
Couple of problems here:

Firstly, the false equivalence of "Not every one can be the world champ". That's fine and all, but that isn't what people are asking for. Signing talent with no discernable plan for them - even in supposedly "filling a role" - is something WWE is apt to do.

Also, they have a wealth of talent, but they get fixated on elevating and pushing only a handful of people, and staying focused on that same handful. It isn't like back in the day, where they tier off talent, and have semi discernable jobbers, lower card, midcard, and upper crust of folks... they instead go "here's this new person", and then they generally fuck off of tv or do nothing important after about 3 months. It looks even goofier when you have NXT and structure that to both train and build talent, then "promote" them to the main roster and treat them like dickheads.

Ryder was easy, since when the whole "Ryder Revolution" thing was going on, WWE seemed pretty keen on ignoring it. He got himself over in his own way, and WWE didn't know what to do with that. Now imagine the big fat nothing he got in that time period, and imagine if there were another potentially viable company that would offer him competitive money and an opportunity to do something besides make catering table cameos backstage. I always point to that tragedy and make the comparison to "Austin 3:16", and look at is as a big "what if" scenario, where Vince still didn't take the chance on Steve Austin there because he didn't see it. He wasn't too high on John Cena, either. Two of his biggest workhorses and cash cows, and he didn't really like them too much. Was Ryder potentially a new one? What if he passed on those two like with Zack? Again, not saying Zack was guaranteed to be company carrying material, but he was one of the most over people on the roster for a time, and he was squandered about as badly as MCMG in TNA (most over tag team, and during that period of time they had like one canned promo and two matches in like a three month period).

The roster is simply full of bodies who aren't going to amount to much of anything unless and until there is another round of people who walk and compounded injuries. They always seem to go into some sort of "panic mode" every so often because they weren't assed to make many people look like credible threats with upward momentum. Top people from NXT become yet another face inside of two PPVs on their main roster arrivals. Laser focus on the search for the new Hogan, they are willing to look past all the Pipers, Savages, and Rick Rudes. Hell, I'd go so far as to say if you took the 80s roster and booked them like they would today, Hulk Hogan and Andre would be on every show in both a promo AND a match, and just about everyone else would barely be on TV.

Yeah, people generally go where the money is, but it isn't always just about money. If an AEW can actually offer guys competitive pay and and opportunity to become something other than just a body on the roster, it is a chance for a refreshing change of sorts - anyone who leaves the WWE machine has the chance to flourish elsewhere, and anyone who stays has x number less people in front of them for their potential push.
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Old 01-22-2019, 06:01 AM   #33
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To be fair, Ryback was mega over for a time, granted 7 years later he still thinks he is that guy, but at least he can say he reached a height the others can't.
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Ryback was somewhat over, but I think people overrate how deep that popularity ran. It was a very superficial thing and I don't think it would have translated into much more.
Even though I wasn't really a fan of his, he was getting the Goldberg-like monster push (and the same push that Asuka got later, with the wrecking shit and even asking for handicap matches). It was mostly a physique thing, like with Chris Masters, and he really wasn't that great, but he served a purpose. And in the purpose, he could have very much been a top guy, even in all the superficiality. He was smashing guys in a badass way not seen for awhile, and it was nice to see them trying to make him a big deal in the midst of all the 50/50 booking nonsense.

But then came the dumb shit. A stop in his upward momentum. A fuck off to the midcard. A gay love angle with Heyman, of all people. Adding him to be another meatshield to stop CM Punk from getting at Heyman after they wrung that Curits Axel well dry... they killed whatever he had going for him themselves. Your badass buzzsaw that was tearing through all comers was now, like everyone else, just another guy.

Ryback wasn't the banner waver for the company, but he should have at least been in that company.
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