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Old 02-04-2022, 03:38 PM   #3321
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Historically speaking (I don't know this info), did WWF/E have any stars outgrowing the company 3 years in their infancy?


Legit asking - have ZERO idea of historical rasslin stuff
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:21 PM   #3322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dravehausen View Post
Historically speaking (I don't know this info), did WWF/E have any stars outgrowing the company 3 years in their infancy?


Legit asking - have ZERO idea of historical rasslin stuff
Depends on how you define infancy. Vince bought WWF in the middle of 1982, and in January 1984 Hogan won the WWF title. The first Wrestlemania was in March 1985, so I would argue that yes Hogan had become a true star well within those 3 years.
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:26 PM   #3323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dravehausen View Post
Historically speaking (I don't know this info), did WWF/E have any stars outgrowing the company 3 years in their infancy?


Legit asking - have ZERO idea of historical rasslin stuff
That’s a hard question to answer because the context of the time was completely different. AEW has launched as a promotion with globally recognized stars and a national cable platform. The WWWF was an existent territory for about 20 years before Vince K. took it over. It’s not really apples to apples — wrestling just operated differently then.

Hulk Hogan was the WWF Champion within two years of Vince K. taking over in 1982. The first WrestleMania was in 1985.

The whole “AEW is still young” thing doesn’t hold much water with me. I don’t think it takes that long to get over. Austin’s run at the top basically lasted as long as AEW has been around. Something in its fourth season isn’t considered “new” in television terms. But yes, I would say the WWF did have stars within 3 years of forming. But they also had television and a presence before that.
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:33 PM   #3324
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
The whole “AEW is still young” thing doesn’t hold much water with me. I don’t think it takes that long to get over. Austin’s run at the top basically lasted as long as AEW has been around. Something in its fourth season isn’t considered “new” in television terms. But yes, I would say the WWF did have stars within 3 years of forming. But they also had television and a presence before that.
Yeah I don't know how anybody plays that card for a company with an unlimited budget and no necessity to turn a profit. They are not making money and reinvesting and growing based on their success. There is nothing wrong with doing it the way they are, but that whole give the poor startup company that is only 3 years old a break is asinine.
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:42 PM   #3325
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Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
Depends on how you define infancy. Vince bought WWF in the middle of 1982, and in January 1984 Hogan won the WWF title. The first Wrestlemania was in March 1985, so I would argue that yes Hogan had become a true star well within those 3 years.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
That’s a hard question to answer because the context of the time was completely different. AEW has launched as a promotion with globally recognized stars and a national cable platform. The WWWF was an existent territory for about 20 years before Vince K. took it over. It’s not really apples to apples — wrestling just operated differently then.

Hulk Hogan was the WWF Champion within two years of Vince K. taking over in 1982. The first WrestleMania was in 1985.

The whole “AEW is still young” thing doesn’t hold much water with me. I don’t think it takes that long to get over. Austin’s run at the top basically lasted as long as AEW has been around. Something in its fourth season isn’t considered “new” in television terms. But yes, I would say the WWF did have stars within 3 years of forming. But they also had television and a presence before that.



Admittedly, I didn't read all that ^ - it shouldn't be this complex.




AEW started a couple years ago.


Whatever Vince McMahon or whoever started WWWWWWWWWF - where was it in the same amount of time as AEW's total time in existence.




AEW - started in 2019 - its 2022



WWF (or whatever the OG company was) started in ???? its 2022.





We can go down the "rabbit hole" of semantics with cable vs not cable blah blah blah, but that's not what I'm after. That wouldn't be a "fair comparison" to either party.



Just wanna know, did WWF have any stars that were bigger than the brand in the same amount of man made time measurement of your choosing?
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Old 02-04-2022, 04:56 PM   #3326
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Nah dude. You can only do apples to apples comparisons like comparing the company that’s had 3 years to build an audience with the company that’s had 69/41 years (depending where you want to start) to build one.
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Old 02-04-2022, 06:08 PM   #3327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dravehausen View Post
Admittedly, I didn't read all that ^ - it shouldn't be this complex.




AEW started a couple years ago.


Whatever Vince McMahon or whoever started WWWWWWWWWF - where was it in the same amount of time as AEW's total time in existence.




AEW - started in 2019 - its 2022



WWF (or whatever the OG company was) started in ???? its 2022.





We can go down the "rabbit hole" of semantics with cable vs not cable blah blah blah, but that's not what I'm after. That wouldn't be a "fair comparison" to either party.



Just wanna know, did WWF have any stars that were bigger than the brand in the same amount of man made time measurement of your choosing?
Oh, so you weren’t asking legit, you just wanted to make a false “Yay AEW!” point and stick your fingers in your ears and go “blah, blah, blah” I’m not listening when people try to actually deal with the question.

The answer is yes. Whichever way you cut the cheese. The stars in the CWC and WWWF were bigger than today. If you want to start from Vince Jr, the answer is still yes. AEW doesn’t get to walk out with “they’re doing really well for 3 years!” They’re also capitalizing on years of history. They’ve got Jericho, JR, Sting, Danielson and Punk all signed.
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Old 02-04-2022, 06:30 PM   #3328
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Big bang theory fans are getting pissed now about shitty AEW after their show. They will never hit a million again and either be cancelled or moved to a shitty timeslots in the next year.
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Old 02-04-2022, 06:30 PM   #3329
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post the next GGI match up
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Old 02-04-2022, 06:35 PM   #3330
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honestly
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Old 02-04-2022, 06:58 PM   #3331
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Originally Posted by TNARICK1 View Post
Big bang theory fans are getting pissed now about shitty AEW after their show. They will never hit a million again and either be cancelled or moved to a shitty timeslots in the next year.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Tony sends out directions to design a Tru TV title belt. Tru TV is a better fit for AEW than TBS and is on just as accessible as TNT is. Plus Tru TV has no hits, is kind of "in development" they are turning more similar to Vice from what I can tell. AEW could be their "crown jewel" if they moved there, I think it would be a good idea.

In particular I hate seeing the AEW logo next to the TBS logo. AEW was pretty much designed to work with TNT, so it really just sucks that they got the boot. Why didn't Dynamite just move to Tuesday night? Do they have hockey on Tuesdays?
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Old 02-04-2022, 07:13 PM   #3332
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Originally Posted by TNARICK1 View Post
Big bang theory fans are getting pissed now about shitty AEW after their show. They will never hit a million again and either be cancelled or moved to a shitty timeslots in the next year.
I can definitely see better uses for the slot. Would not be surprised to see AEW move at all.
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Old 02-04-2022, 07:17 PM   #3333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dravehausen View Post
Admittedly, I didn't read all that ^ - it shouldn't be this complex.




AEW started a couple years ago.


Whatever Vince McMahon or whoever started WWWWWWWWWF - where was it in the same amount of time as AEW's total time in existence.




AEW - started in 2019 - its 2022



WWF (or whatever the OG company was) started in ???? its 2022.





We can go down the "rabbit hole" of semantics with cable vs not cable blah blah blah, but that's not what I'm after. That wouldn't be a "fair comparison" to either party.



Just wanna know, did WWF have any stars that were bigger than the brand in the same amount of man made time measurement of your choosing?
Well IF you had taken 45 seconds to read, the answer is yes.

But of course WWE had a ruthless businessman in charge and not a creepy 40 year old manchild nerd spending his daddy's money, so of course we should totally be more proud of Tony and all his hard work
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Old 02-04-2022, 08:36 PM   #3334
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Originally Posted by TNARICK1 View Post
showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/2022-2-2-Wed-FinalCable-LSD.png

Did 954,000 viewers and a 0.35 demo.

Hahaha in your face damnienray u fucking idiot. AEW sucks ass
So what are you gonna say next time they hit 1m? Or will you be too busy eating your ham salad sandwiches
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Old 02-04-2022, 10:46 PM   #3335
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So what are you gonna say next time they hit 1m? Or will you be too busy eating your ham salad sandwiches
Naw they will get a million again, Tony will spend a few more million (of his father's money) on more free agents, or a few hundred thousand on special theme episodes.

At some point that will no longer work, at which point he will start paying people with Nielsen Boxes to watch his shows. As long as Big Shad is signing those checks, Tony will spend whatever it takes to appear extra successful.
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Old 02-04-2022, 10:47 PM   #3336
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The easiest answer is a true Star in wrestling is somebody who outdraws the company. What I mean by that is are people paying to see WWE, or are they paying to see Stone Cold.

That is a very small list of people historically. Very few have been bigger than the brand in WWE, drawing people who normally would not go to a show just because WWE is in town, but Brock Lesnar is having a match, they want to check it out.

AEW does not have anybody on that level. It is why you get AEW chants, because the brand itself is the reason people go, much like ECW was. It does not matter what wrestler is on the show until they get a true Star.

The funny thing is that is what Vince wants. He wants WWE to be the draw, but his company is so big they do have to let a few people be elevated to that level.

Also funny is that Tony wishes the opposite. It is why he tries so hard to bring in new people, because he does not have anybody who is an actual star that can continually bring in viewers. Signing new people gives him a short rerm bump, and that is the best option he has.

CM Punk is supposed to be a giant star, and they built him vs MJF for 2 months, and the payoff for them was a 13% decrease in ratings from the previous week.

That tells you all you need to know about Phil. The people that watched that show, myself included, are the people that were going to watch AEW regardless of who was on the card.
They make up all this other stuff about Punk expanding other metrics. TK’s paying out the ass for guys who aren’t drawing. He’s going to have to up everyone’s contract to keep them too.
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Old 02-04-2022, 10:49 PM   #3337
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Naw they will get a million again, Tony will spend a few more million (of his father's money) on more free agents, or a few hundred thousand on special theme episodes.

At some point that will no longer work, at which point he will start paying people with Nielsen Boxes to watch his shows. As long as Big Shad is signing those checks, Tony will spend whatever it takes to appear extra successful.
Has anyone honestly said they would never hit 1 million again? All I’ve seen is people saying they won’t likely be hitting it consistently. Which has proven to be true.
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Old 02-05-2022, 05:12 AM   #3338
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I don’t think it’s “people”, it’s specifically the backyard guy.

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Exactly. This is the last time they will hit 1 million. They are not creating any stars and are running out of people to bring. I'm gonna laugh in Damien Rey's bitch ass face next week when they can't even hit 1 million.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:59 AM   #3339
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Austin Theory is a bigger star than just about anyone in AEW. Shawn Michaels was not as big a star as Hulk Hogan, no. He was a bigger star than Jungle Boy. They do not have a Tom Cruise. They have not created a Tom Cruise.
What’s Hogan got to do with anything? Surely a more “apples to apples” comparison would be to claim that Disco Inferno is a bigger star than Michaels by virtue of the fact that he was exposed to a bigger audience. Nobody in 96 was tuning in to Nitro to watch Disco, as nobody today is tuning into see Theory. Which is literally the metric by which you determine who is a star.
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Old 02-05-2022, 03:27 PM   #3340
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Little baby XL crying that AEW can't hit 1 million viewers lmao
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Old 02-05-2022, 03:31 PM   #3341
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Where?
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Old 02-05-2022, 04:19 PM   #3342
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From your eyes probably
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Old 02-05-2022, 04:19 PM   #3343
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Old 02-05-2022, 04:21 PM   #3344
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Old 02-05-2022, 04:48 PM   #3345
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What’s Hogan got to do with anything? Surely a more “apples to apples” comparison would be to claim that Disco Inferno is a bigger star than Michaels by virtue of the fact that he was exposed to a bigger audience. Nobody in 96 was tuning in to Nitro to watch Disco, as nobody today is tuning into see Theory. Which is literally the metric by which you determine who is a star.
No, I’m talking about guys in the same position in the different companies. Austin Theory is a guy being groomed for main events. He’s in one at the next PPV. He’s in segments with Vince every week. He’s a bigger star than AEW guys.
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Old 02-05-2022, 05:06 PM   #3346
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Only he’s not a star according to the definition you gave; talent that people tune in to see.

He might be being groomed for Main Events, and for my money he’s a good horse to back, but people are not tuning in to see him. Does he “spike a rating”? He might, I don’t know, the numbers are not the be-all and end-all to me in the same way they are for some. He’s a good talent, a great prospect, he may even be better right now than AEW’s very best, but he’s not pulling the “1.8”m people in. AEW have positioned Page as their champion. He’s not pulling in “1.8”m, but it’s reasonable to assume that a higher proportion of AEW’s audience of “900”k are tuning in to see Page.

I’ll remind you that you made the comparison between Page and Theory, before then pivoting to compare guys in the same position.

As things stand I’d personally much rather say there are barely any/almost no stars in wrestling today.
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Old 02-05-2022, 06:47 PM   #3347
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Only he’s not a star according to the definition you gave; talent that people tune in to see.

He might be being groomed for Main Events, and for my money he’s a good horse to back, but people are not tuning in to see him. Does he “spike a rating”? He might, I don’t know, the numbers are not the be-all and end-all to me in the same way they are for some. He’s a good talent, a great prospect, he may even be better right now than AEW’s very best, but he’s not pulling the “1.8”m people in. AEW have positioned Page as their champion. He’s not pulling in “1.8”m, but it’s reasonable to assume that a higher proportion of AEW’s audience of “900”k are tuning in to see Page.

I’ll remind you that you made the comparison between Page and Theory, before then pivoting to compare guys in the same position.

As things stand I’d personally much rather say there are barely any/almost no stars in wrestling today.
That’s not my argument at all. My argument is that if you are anyone of any remark in WWE, mathematically you are going to be more “famous” than anyone in AEW. I see what you are interpreting, but it’s not the same thing. More people do tune in to see Theory. They tune into Raw. And they see Theory.

Theory is a bigger star than Adam Page. I’m not pivoting on anything. AEW doesn’t have the reach.
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Old 02-05-2022, 10:35 PM   #3348
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They make up all this other stuff about Punk expanding other metrics. TK’s paying out the ass for guys who aren’t drawing. He’s going to have to up everyone’s contract to keep them too.
Punk can draw a certain type of people nobody else can, and that is the small subsection of MMA fans who enjoy watching colossal failures go on different shows and still pretend they can win a fight against anyone. Punk is the king in that demo.
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Old 02-05-2022, 11:10 PM   #3349
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Punk’s always been able to generate hype for one event. Outside of Money in the Bank 2011, did he ever actually draw money before getting his ass handed to him in the UFC and getting ghost cum on his face in shitty horror films?
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Old 02-06-2022, 04:32 AM   #3350
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That’s not my argument at all. My argument is that if you are anyone of any remark in WWE, mathematically you are going to be more “famous” than anyone in AEW. I see what you are interpreting, but it’s not the same thing. More people do tune in to see Theory. They tune into Raw. And they see Theory.

Theory is a bigger star than Adam Page. I’m not pivoting on anything. AEW doesn’t have the reach.
We started the conversation about WWE and AEW’s ability to create “stars”. You defined “star” as someone that people tune in to see. Seeing someone because you tuned in is not the same thing - otherwise Kevin Patrick (that’s the Irish backstage interviewer btw) is also a “star” by your working.

Now you’ve introduced the notion of “fame” to the conversation. I’m not going to argue your “mathematics” because that would be stupid, I’d just be cautious of extrapolating too much from the numbers. You’ve also changed the benchmark of what we were originally discussing. Or at least what I thought we were discussing given the actual words you used.
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Old 02-06-2022, 02:34 PM   #3351
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We started the conversation about WWE and AEW’s ability to create “stars”. You defined “star” as someone that people tune in to see. Seeing someone because you tuned in is not the same thing - otherwise Kevin Patrick (that’s the Irish backstage interviewer btw) is also a “star” by your working.

Now you’ve introduced the notion of “fame” to the conversation. I’m not going to argue your “mathematics” because that would be stupid, I’d just be cautious of extrapolating too much from the numbers. You’ve also changed the benchmark of what we were originally discussing. Or at least what I thought we were discussing given the actual words you used.
I’ll take your word that you didn’t know what I meant.
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Old 02-06-2022, 02:40 PM   #3352
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Old 02-07-2022, 08:46 AM   #3353
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The WWE universe are the biggest stars. They are featured every single minute of every Raw.


AND WITHOUT A CONTRACT, SAXON!
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Old 02-07-2022, 09:01 AM   #3354
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Course we have a resident star here in Shisen KOTF - getting his sign on national TV.
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Old 02-07-2022, 10:06 AM   #3355
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I wish there was a way to have a thread showing everyone who got a TPWW sign on TV. I'm sure Shisen would know what to call it.
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Old 02-07-2022, 10:18 AM   #3356
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Man the NBA and College Basketball plus all the excitement and self preservation for The Pro Bowl and Superbowl coming up put a lot of guys off AEW Friday night.

517,000 viewers and a .19 in the 18 to 49 demographic for Rampage.

It really sucks that AEW has to compete with the biggest names in sports like NBA and NFL, directly which pulls lots of viewership.

But without that big sports competition, people going out to party or breaking news days Rampage probably would EASILY break 850k each week and if it wasn't basketball season Dynamite would EASILY break major records.
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Old 02-07-2022, 03:21 PM   #3357
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Man the NBA and College Basketball plus all the excitement and self preservation for The Pro Bowl and Superbowl coming up put a lot of guys off AEW Friday night.

517,000 viewers and a .19 in the 18 to 49 demographic for Rampage.

It really sucks that AEW has to compete with the biggest names in sports like NBA and NFL, directly which pulls lots of viewership.

But without that big sports competition, people going out to party or breaking news days Rampage probably would EASILY break 850k each week and if it wasn't basketball season Dynamite would EASILY break major records.
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Old 02-07-2022, 09:44 PM   #3358
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Can you imagine if there was a brand new sitcom with an ensemble cast like Friends in 2022 that came out and got 500,000 viewers?

Now can you imagine the actors on the show CONSTANTLY talking about how great their ratings are and getting into Twitter fights with random people calling them cunts/twats/small white dick energy ect.?

Something tells me that wouldn't fly.
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Old 02-08-2022, 03:11 AM   #3359
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AEW’s ratings are pitiful and they act like fucking twats about them. No one in television acts that way, because that’s not the way ratings work.
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Old 02-08-2022, 06:24 AM   #3360
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Can you imagine if there was a brand new sitcom with an ensemble cast like Friends in 2022 that came out and got 500,000 viewers?

Now can you imagine the actors on the show CONSTANTLY talking about how great their ratings are and getting into Twitter fights with random people calling them cunts/twats/small white dick energy ect.?

Something tells me that wouldn't fly.
I was actually trying to think of a good analogy but wrestling is so unique it’s really difficult.

Your analogy to Friends isn’t quite 1:1 as Friends isn’t still running new programming. Comparisons to movies don’t quite work either. Or to shows like Game of Thrones.

The best I came up with was long running soap operas as they run for years with multiple new episodes a week and no break. In the UK there are 2 huge long-running soap operas on opposing channels; BBC1 has Eastenders which has run since 1985, and ITV has Coronation Street which has run since 1960. They have both pulled huge ratings in the past; 5/10 of the most watched shows (non-sports, non-news) of all time in the UK are episodes of the 2 shows (4 Eastenders, 1 Coronation Street) with an episode of Eastenders the most watched show of all time with 30 million aggregate viewers (only 2m viewers less than the 1966 World Cup final - that’s the one hosted and won by England, and the coverage of Princess Diana’s funeral).

These shows were ratings juggernauts, but have seen significant declines over the years. Eastenders average rating in 1987 was over 21m, in 2020 it was around 5.5m and last year it registered its lowest ever overnight rating. Struggling to find year-by-year average ratings for Coronation Street but their highest rated episode of the year has steadily declined from a high of 27m in 1989 to 7.1m in 2021.

Over the years other soap operas have been launched, most notably, Brookside (Channel 4, 1982-2003) which regularly drew an audience of 8m+, Emmerdale (ITV, 1989-present) with it’s highest ever rating of 12.5m, and Hollyoaks (Channel 4, 1998-present), viewing figures harder to come by but current figures have them at around 500,000 viewers per episode. These “upstart” soaps have struggled to “muscle in” on the kind of viewing figures achieved by Eastenders and Coronation Street.

So I guess, Coronation Street is WWE, Eastenders is WCW, Brookside is ECW, Emmerdale is AEW, and Hollyoaks is Impact.

If you think the wrestling twittersphere is polarised, you should see it when the UK soap fans get heated.
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