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Old 08-28-2023, 05:42 PM   #161
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Just watched a video on YouTube of all the entrances and aesthetically, the show looked pretty fucking great. Also, I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this before but AEW kinda kills it when it comes to entrance music. Even the beginning of the Bucks’ theme was some great mid-2000s Smackdown cheesiness.
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Old 08-28-2023, 07:29 PM   #162
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Old 08-28-2023, 09:33 PM   #163
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Seriously though, how can there be all these pictures during different matches where there are TONS of empty seats and many sections tarped???

We have all called bullshit on WWE's attendance claims for years, but we are just supposed to ignore crowd pictures from the show that were coming out in real time?
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Old 08-28-2023, 11:38 PM   #164
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So much can be done to fudge numbers. And the dirt sheets are on Tony Khanís side. No one is going to scrutinize what they consider to be an important achievement.
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Old 08-28-2023, 11:45 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
Being completely fair, he's come off as a scrub for quite awhile before "finding himself" in Japan. This is including his very forgettable NXT run, which culminated with him "going on strike" (kayfabe), and getting squashed by the then debuting Sami Callihan. Being WWE developmental, of course, neither of the two used their recognized names.

He toiled in the indies and RoH for awhile, but then veered toward Japan. Ironically, the same could be said for his partner in Jay White, as Jay was pretty bland in RoH before he ended up becoming groomed to become the NJPW heir apparent gaijin heel. And while what makes Jay... well, King Switch hasn't exactly translated stateside much as of yet, Juice Robinson is oozing that intangible that was missing from him in Connecticut (by way of Florida) about a decade previous.
Interesting background on Juice, I have no context for him as I havent seen his work anywhere else but coming into AEW I wasnt a fan. The amount hes grown on me kinda snuck up on me the last week or so.

Im biased around Jay as hes a Kiwi, love his look, love his attitude. Just feels like a main guy to me despite not really being presented in that way until the last month or so.

Some people have a main character energy and I feel that way around Jay.
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Old 08-28-2023, 11:49 PM   #166
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As for the Punk vs. Perry stuff. Perry having a sulk about the real glass vs. fake glass stuff does not cast him in a good light. Now it seems hes openly mocking Punk about it thats not a god look either.

Its a shame its Punk in it again but he doesn't sound like hes done a whole lot wrong here this time based on whats getting out.

If TK doesnt want to take control of this stuff he needs to let someone else do it. Give Daniels more power or something then back him up to draw a line in the sand.
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Old 08-28-2023, 11:54 PM   #167
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Backstage drama is good for AEW according to TK. In other words: "I have no spine and want to keep awkwardly hugging as many people as I can at media scrums. Thanks guys!"
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Old 08-29-2023, 01:53 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
Interesting background on Juice, I have no context for him as I havent seen his work anywhere else but coming into AEW I wasnt a fan. The amount hes grown on me kinda snuck up on me the last week or so.

Im biased around Jay as hes a Kiwi, love his look, love his attitude. Just feels like a main guy to me despite not really being presented in that way until the last month or so.

Some people have a main character energy and I feel that way around Jay.
He was actually Kevin Owens first opponent for his NXT debut match.
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Old 08-29-2023, 01:59 AM   #169
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Old 08-29-2023, 08:50 AM   #170
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How are they going to book Collision for Saturday night if they suspended the guy who does a lot of the booking for the show?

hahahaha
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Old 08-29-2023, 09:15 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
As for the Punk vs. Perry stuff. Perry having a sulk about the real glass vs. fake glass stuff does not cast him in a good light. Now it seems hes openly mocking Punk about it thats not a god look either.

Its a shame its Punk in it again but he doesn't sound like hes done a whole lot wrong here this time based on whats getting out.

If TK doesnt want to take control of this stuff he needs to let someone else do it. Give Daniels more power or something then back him up to draw a line in the sand.
So let me get this straight. Punk stops Perry from doing a glass spot, then Punk runs to the sheets with the story about it even though he whines like a bitch whenever someone else goes to the sheets. Perry is annoyed by Punks hypocritical nonsense and trying to embarass him via the sheets, so he throws out a harmless one liner that Punk overreacts to (because he's the softest man alive) and starts shit backstage again. And somehow you find Perry to be the problematic one? LOLOLOL, k.
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Old 08-29-2023, 09:17 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
As for the Punk vs. Perry stuff. Perry having a sulk about the real glass vs. fake glass stuff does not cast him in a good light. Now it seems hes openly mocking Punk about it thats not a god look either.

Its a shame its Punk in it again but he doesn't sound like hes done a whole lot wrong here this time based on whats getting out.

If TK doesnt want to take control of this stuff he needs to let someone else do it. Give Daniels more power or something then back him up to draw a line in the sand.
Daniels is absolutely shit at being head of talent relations. Exhibit A: where was he in Brawl Out?
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Old 08-29-2023, 09:20 AM   #173
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I don't even like Perry, and he shouldnt have taken the verbal shot at Punk. He should have just let it go because everyone knows Punk is a crybaby and will REEEEEEE out about everything. But to act like Perry is the problem here is just stupid at this point. There is one common denominator in all of these issues and it's CM Punk. To still be oblivious to him being the issue at this point is absolutely laughable.

The real problem is TK being such a mark for Punk that he won't manage his company because he's afraid his favoritest bestest buddy will get butthurt and quit like he threatened to before his match at All In.
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Old 08-29-2023, 09:21 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
Daniels is absolutely shit at being head of talent relations. Exhibit A: where was he in Brawl Out?
At the Brawl? That's literally why Punk doesn't want him at Collision lol.
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Old 08-29-2023, 09:46 AM   #175
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Imagine Cena kicking out Ross or Laurinaitis for doing their job.
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Old 08-29-2023, 10:51 AM   #176
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Thumbs down

It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?
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Old 08-29-2023, 11:10 AM   #177
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Yes. While your point is valid about drawing capability, and while both are adults by age, Punk is a "veteran" of the business and should have a thick skin. You have already been suspended for a long period because of fighting and because someone says something on TV, you feel the need to not just confront them, but fight them. Nah. Sorry. I'm a big fan of his but he needs to shut the fuck, grow up, and be the leader, not the instigator.
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Old 08-29-2023, 11:12 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?
More than that. What about the next big name that comes along? They see how this locker room acts and, suddenly, the WWE's deal isn't so bad.

Whether or not Mercedes signs is the next one to watch. Considering how AEW treats outsiders to their Kliq (see: Rosa, Thunder; Deeb, Serena; Fisto, Lu) and one who is a much bigger star than even Saraya was at one point. Also, how of all the major Women's free agents available, only Britt's friends were brought in for more than a one off.
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Old 08-29-2023, 11:44 AM   #179
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There's a lot we just won't know about who did what so everyone is free to take a side based on if they like Punk or not.

I'm on team Punk. The adult in the room who seems to be the only one (including TK) who is trying to put out a product that is best for the promotion regardless of whether people like him for putting his foot down or not.

If Perry wants to bleed every week like Mox, ship him off to Dynamite or GCW.
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Old 08-29-2023, 12:00 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
So let me get this straight. Punk stops Perry from doing a glass spot, then Punk runs to the sheets with the story about it even though he whines like a bitch whenever someone else goes to the sheets. Perry is annoyed by Punks hypocritical nonsense and trying to embarass him via the sheets, so he throws out a harmless one liner that Punk overreacts to (because he's the softest man alive) and starts shit backstage again. And somehow you find Perry to be the problematic one? LOLOLOL, k.
Ding
Ding
Ding
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Old 08-29-2023, 12:14 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?
Yeah like when Shawn refused to do the job for Bret? Oh wait, that would make Punk the Shawn, not the Bret. So Hangman is the Bret?

Serious answer to your last question is yes. AEW was better without him. What exactly has he done since he came back?

1. Undermined the World Championship
2. Leak shit to the dirtsheets
3. Got that "banned things" list out everybody laughed at
4. Had a bunch of self jerkoff matches with FTR
5. Only works with his friends (The Klique much)?
6. Undermined the office
7. Verbally dressing down extras
8. Given nobody the rub
9. Messed with other wrestlers booking
10. Got a jumping ovation from Mark owner
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Old 08-29-2023, 12:25 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
There's a lot we just won't know about who did what so everyone is free to take a side based on if they like Punk or not
There is a lot we don't know. But there is one thing we do know: the one common denominator in all of the drama is CM Punk. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
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Old 08-29-2023, 12:27 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?
It would make no difference to the product. There would just be far less drama embarassing the company as a whole.
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Old 08-29-2023, 01:06 PM   #184
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a lot of you complaining about Tony Khan having a light hand with Punk...did you whine about how Vince let Shawn Michaels (and friends) do much worse, on and off tv?
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Old 08-29-2023, 01:22 PM   #185
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Tpww forums wasn't around during the 90's so now I didn't have the chance to whine. I also wasn't available to the knowledge I have of the business when I was 12 years old.


So now I didn't whine.
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Old 08-29-2023, 02:14 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
There is a lot we don't know. But there is one thing we do know: the one common denominator in all of the drama is CM Punk. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
SOMEONE has to be involved from top to bottom to get the product right. Punk has basically been left in charge of Collision because TK isn't a real boss. Punk may be being sensitive about it but its his reputation that's on the line with that show and all of AEW to some extent. He takes certain things way too seriously but I can understand why someone in that position without much of a support system would freak out at every little transgression.
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Old 08-29-2023, 02:16 PM   #187
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SI confirmed the suspensions.

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Old 08-29-2023, 02:30 PM   #188
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Truth is, Punk is imitating what he’s seen before in the big corporate wrestling companies. You might say he’s lived ling enough to see himself become the villain. Ultimately this is Vince’s fault. Obviously.
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Old 08-29-2023, 02:33 PM   #189
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Obviously joking there.

I’m one of Punk’s biggest fans and I even I can look at the optics and see he’s not coming off well here. You can say he’s just passionate about the product or he’s being the only adult in the room (btw, resulting to violence every time somebody rubs you the wrong way is not very adult) but his actions are neither a good look for him or AEW as a whole.
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Old 08-29-2023, 02:55 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
SOMEONE has to be involved from top to bottom to get the product right. Punk has basically been left in charge of Collision because TK isn't a real boss. Punk may be being sensitive about it but its his reputation that's on the line with that show and all of AEW to some extent. He takes certain things way too seriously but I can understand why someone in that position without much of a support system would freak out at every little transgression.
This is pretty much bang on. Punk takes it seriously, but he also wants AEW to make money so he can be worth the money heís making. Heís being openly mocked by wrestlers who donít understand how to do that and donít have much interest in doing that.
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Old 08-29-2023, 03:07 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Hart View Post
a lot of you complaining about Tony Khan having a light hand with Punk...did you whine about how Vince let Shawn Michaels (and friends) do much worse, on and off tv?
"But WWE" is not now, nor has it ever been a good argument. You are just excusing anything that happens. What if somebody comes out and says Tony Khan raped them? Will you say it is ok, but Vince McMahon was accused or raping someone as well?

The truth is there are lots of people who hated Shawn and Vince at the time. The problem with that however is that in retrospect, they used it properly. Shawn was the top heel at that point mostly because of that whole situation with Bret, and Vince used it to become such an effective heel that he was able to eventually get both Shawn and Bret back as babyfaces. He put them both over at Wrestlemania.

All this Punk shit has nothing to build to. He doesn't even let people he dislikes on Collision, so he certainly isnt working with them. They all work on guaranteed contracts so they are getting paid no matter what, so what is the incentive? The boss clearly showed that he is not going to fire anybody for really any reason.

I think in their history they have publicly fired 2 people, Jimmy Havoc and whatever spanish announcer was doing an offensive Japanese impression. Other than that, he just puts them away for a bit.
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Old 08-29-2023, 03:13 PM   #192
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The way Shawn Michaels acted is pretty openly derided too.
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Old 08-29-2023, 03:27 PM   #193
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Quote:
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"But WWE" is not now, nor has it ever been a good argument. You are just excusing anything that happens. What if somebody comes out and says Tony Khan raped them? Will you say it is ok, but Vince McMahon was accused or raping someone as well?

The truth is there are lots of people who hated Shawn and Vince at the time. The problem with that however is that in retrospect, they used it properly. Shawn was the top heel at that point mostly because of that whole situation with Bret, and Vince used it to become such an effective heel that he was able to eventually get both Shawn and Bret back as babyfaces. He put them both over at Wrestlemania.

All this Punk shit has nothing to build to. He doesn't even let people he dislikes on Collision, so he certainly isnt working with them. They all work on guaranteed contracts so they are getting paid no matter what, so what is the incentive? The boss clearly showed that he is not going to fire anybody for really any reason.

I think in their history they have publicly fired 2 people, Jimmy Havoc and whatever spanish announcer was doing an offensive Japanese impression. Other than that, he just puts them away for a bit.
Firstly, the thing about rape is just reaching and you know that, we are not talking about out and out crimes here.

Your next paragraph about Shawn being a top heel..when and for how long? Shawn Michaels was never the draw Bret was, never mind Austin or anyone else. If anything Shawn was trying to run Rocky out of the business. Shawn Michaels did not matter to WWF as much as Punk matters to AEW.

I agree with you about Punk being allowed to control who is at collision - its never a good thing for a worker to have that much control. I read a good take about Punk being able to sue AEW because he was attacked by EVPs of the company. That is a very real legality.

My point was that Shawn Michaels and his Kliq did far worse to WWF than Punk has done to AEW - if anything its those childish fuckers , the elit and jungle boy.
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Old 08-29-2023, 04:22 PM   #194
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Saying Shawn wasn't the draw Bret was immediately discredits you. Bret was a better wrestler, sure. But Shawn was also pretty damn good and had things Bret didn't, like charisma and showmanship.

Blaming the elite here is also stupid. How many stories have you heard about them sending people home? Outside of Punk, how many stories are there about them having nonstop confrontations with people backstage? Speaking of the elite, and also in reference to us not talking about out and out crimes here, didn't they just put over Punks besties, and specifically, Cash "I'll pull a strap on a buster" Wheeler?
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Old 08-29-2023, 04:26 PM   #195
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Yes, it was hyperbole just to show the but WWE is not a good argument.

I never claimed Shawn was the draw Bret was. Neither of those guys were ever on top at a peak time. Shawn was the top heel because of the screwjob. It was a brief time, about 5 months, but they leaned into it, which was my point, they used it.

Shawn was far more important to WWE than Punk is to AEW. Just the fact that he was in 4 Wrestlemania main events proves that. Has Punk even main evented 4 AEW PPVs yet?

Again, just because Shawn was worse doesn't excuse CM Punk.

And I certainly am not forgiving any of those guys, Elite, Jack Perry, Christopher Daniels, Ryan Nemeth, etc. The difference is they all clashed with just one guy. If Sammy Guevara got into it with Jack Perry, the same way he did with Andrade and Eddie Kingston, well I would say the pattern is with Sammy Guevara being the asshole.
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Old 08-29-2023, 04:33 PM   #196
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Yeah pretty sure we gave Sammy the business too when he was in the center of all the nonsense, starting with him proposing in the ring and then it being called off a few months later because he was supposedly cheating on her with Tay, who he then began working with on air.
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Old 08-29-2023, 04:59 PM   #197
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lol Punk got into it with Miro at All In too and was asking him if he wanted to take things outside to settle it.
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Old 08-29-2023, 05:10 PM   #198
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Quote:
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lol Punk got into it with Miro at All In too and was asking him if he wanted to take things outside to settle it.
There is ZERO chance that happened lol. Miro would kill him
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Old 08-29-2023, 06:23 PM   #199
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Obviously joking there.

Iím one of Punkís biggest fans and I even I can look at the optics and see heís not coming off well here. You can say heís just passionate about the product or heís being the only adult in the room (btw, resulting to violence every time somebody rubs you the wrong way is not very adult) but his actions are neither a good look for him or AEW as a whole.
He's not coming off well, no. It sounds like he's handling things like an alcoholic promoter 30 years ago. You're right in that IF thats what happened it isn't professional but again, we are hearing 3rd hand what might have happened so we have to take everything being said with a grain of salt. However, if TK is allowing him to do this and asking people nicely to not do stupid shit isn't working.....

Quote:
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Saying Shawn wasn't the draw Bret was immediately discredits you. Bret was a better wrestler, sure. But Shawn was also pretty damn good and had things Bret didn't, like charisma and showmanship.

Blaming the elite here is also stupid. How many stories have you heard about them sending people home? Outside of Punk, how many stories are there about them having nonstop confrontations with people backstage? Speaking of the elite, and also in reference to us not talking about out and out crimes here, didn't they just put over Punks besties, and specifically, Cash "I'll pull a strap on a buster" Wheeler?
The Elite don't send people home because they just play with the people they want to play with and really don't care about anything outside of that.

Quote:
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lol Punk got into it with Miro at All In too and was asking him if he wanted to take things outside to settle it.
Sounds like its much ado about nothing. That being said: He's making this really hard for me.....
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Old 08-29-2023, 10:23 PM   #200
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Id also like to point out that this Punk/Perry thing started because Perry wanted to do some spotbwith real glass and everyone told him no. Not just Punk. Then they do a spot at all out with the windshield. Did Hook not have lacerations all over his arm? Wasn't Perry told no because real glass is unsafe?

Thanks guys.
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