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Old 08-29-2023, 10:41 PM   #201
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CM Punk is the biggest dork loser ever. Fucking cry baby. Love him.
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Old 08-29-2023, 11:02 PM   #202
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Reports coming out that during the scuffle some monitors fell onto Tiny Khan. This is my favorite thing ever
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Old 08-29-2023, 11:42 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
Interesting background on Juice, I have no context for him as I havent seen his work anywhere else but coming into AEW I wasnt a fan. The amount hes grown on me kinda snuck up on me the last week or so.

Im biased around Jay as hes a Kiwi, love his look, love his attitude. Just feels like a main guy to me despite not really being presented in that way until the last month or so.

Some people have a main character energy and I feel that way around Jay.
It is sometimes interesting to be a casual witness.

What I mean is this: it's fine for folks to only be aware of AJ Styles as a thing in WWE. He is who and what he is on the roster and has been surprisingly treated as a star since showing up in spite of his relative size in "the land of the giants" (though, part of that is fanfare around the fact that he did come in the company to begin with, but let's ride past that right now for the larger point). It is quite another to have seen AJ become the guy he is now from aaaaaaallll the way back in late stage WCW where he was one half of a high spot-centric tag team with a dude named Air Paris wearing flight suit coveralls and aviator sunglasses (Air Raid). Watching him grow, for better or worse, in various companies, casually in the background for the last couple of decades puts a different spin on exactly how far he has come when not just distilled to being a guy who needed to sojurn to Japan to wash the TNA stink off of him so that WWE would bother taking a chance.

It's one of the reasons why I admit that I was in the minority about Keith Lee in that he was pretty over for a guy who - to me - was just one of two generic, big, former football players who were a tag team in RoH (the other was Shane Taylor, who is STILL there under the new regime. I'm surprised they haven't made some sort of cross promotional angle about this... but I guess I shouldn't be). It was a roller coaster watching the guy popularly known as EC3 go from a WWE developmental nobody to a built and pushed star in TNA, go BACK to WWE developmental as that star, and then get all the star beaten out of him. Or watching some lowly foreign nobody be given a gimmick where he's cosplaying as Kato from The Green Hornet, and then go on to shed that and basically become New Japan's John Cena.

We get to see folks who surely has something nobody capitalizes on. We get to see talentless shitheads pushed to the moon to no avail. But somewhere between that, we get to see a guy like Steve Austin go from WCW midcarder and/or tag teamer extrordinare to ECW loudmouth to the abysmal Ringmaster to the serendipity that brought forth "Austin 3:16". We get to track Chris Jericho's trajectory from one of the most frustratingly underutilized potential talents in WCW all the way to now being one of the most frustratingly overutilized has-beens in AEW trying to sadly eek out more glory days that existed between these two points. And in between all that, we get to see some folks who we bank on being a surefire, can't miss star be fucked over or "dumb themselves out of position", or conversely, see someone we had no expectation for grow into a talent that they seem like they had no possibility at ever becoming.

It's part meta, but it's all wrestling.
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Old 08-30-2023, 12:10 AM   #204
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When did the narrative change for Punk?

In WWE he was praised for being anti-establishment and lauded for standing up for himself against the machine. Similar characteristics on camera got Austin over as the biggest star in the industry.

In AEW he does the press conference and stands up for himself, defends himself and appears to be the same person. Now he is treated like a pariah by half the audience. Is it primarily more because of who he upset?
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Old 08-30-2023, 12:27 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
It's interesting reading anti-CM Punk comments not just on this forum but across social media. While initially jarring as its a view I don't resonate with, I quickly remember that the split crowd that I see on television every week is also made up of people here.

CM Punk has given the wrestling world so many incredible moments over the years that seems to be forgotten/overlooked because he called out wrestlers who simply aren't and have never been draws. I don't really get why people would side with the Young Bucks or Jungle Boy over CM Punk (who seems to constantly get needled). In some ways it reminds me of Bret vs Shawn.

For those who seem to hate Punk, would AEW really be better without him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splaya View Post
Yes. While your point is valid about drawing capability, and while both are adults by age, Punk is a "veteran" of the business and should have a thick skin. You have already been suspended for a long period because of fighting and because someone says something on TV, you feel the need to not just confront them, but fight them. Nah. Sorry. I'm a big fan of his but he needs to shut the fuck, grow up, and be the leader, not the instigator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
There's a lot we just won't know about who did what so everyone is free to take a side based on if they like Punk or not.

I'm on team Punk. The adult in the room who seems to be the only one (including TK) who is trying to put out a product that is best for the promotion regardless of whether people like him for putting his foot down or not.

If Perry wants to bleed every week like Mox, ship him off to Dynamite or GCW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
Obviously joking there.

Iím one of Punkís biggest fans and I even I can look at the optics and see heís not coming off well here. You can say heís just passionate about the product or heís being the only adult in the room (btw, resulting to violence every time somebody rubs you the wrong way is not very adult) but his actions are neither a good look for him or AEW as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
This is pretty much bang on. Punk takes it seriously, but he also wants AEW to make money so he can be worth the money heís making. Heís being openly mocked by wrestlers who donít understand how to do that and donít have much interest in doing that.
One - I hate to use the Vinceism here, but "perception is reality, pal!" If Punk has "thick skin", the spin will be that he's a bitch that's all talk. If he, you know, repeatedly backs up what he says about being disrespected or come see me, and then THE PEOPLE HE ENDS UP FIGHTING ARE THE ONES WHO CAME TO SEE HIM, then this makes him a hothead and a locker room cancer. We all know how it would play out, and there is no winning for him here. People who dislike him are going to find a way to dislike him even if he brought cookies for everyone every week. "What an asshole, he didn't bring any oatmeal raisin!"

Seems to me like one particular side is trying to drive him away either though sheer annoyance or sullied reputation so they can go back to being a place where all the indy friends can make a boatload of money while getting fellated by the small audience that just wants to see ANYTHING not WWE or watch people do the same flips and comedy spots for about a year until it bores them then they go start watching something else.

Two - The Bret vs. Shawn argument isn't a good comparison anymore, because to the audience at large for AEW, Bret was an overrated whiny bitch and Shawn did no wrong especially now that he's a repentant, reformed,born-again good boy. That absoves him of all the drugs and asshattery he was doing in the timeframe in queston. There's a lot of retconning of context. It's why we get condecending comments like "masturbatory Bret Hart fantasies" about actual good matches or the Bucks waxing poetic about how Shawn and The Hardy Boyz inspired them. Its weirdly like if someone took a historical event like Pearl Harbor, and over time, ran with the conclusion that Hawaii deserved to be bombed because something something US bad instead of the actual context of Japan striking first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
There is a lot we don't know. But there is one thing we do know: the one common denominator in all of the drama is CM Punk. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
There's a difference between being an arsonist, and holding accelerant while having others run towards you with lit cigarettes and/or blowtorches.

If someone hears the adage "don't poke the bear", so they INSIST they go up to the bear and poke it not even with a large stick but with their finger, and said bear takes a big wet bite out, I still fail to see how any of this is the bear's fault. I wouldn't consider the bear to be a bully. I wouldn't understand how it is that the bear deserves to be drug out in the streets and shot. I would be more aligned with the stupid games/stupid prizes ethos here.
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Old 08-30-2023, 12:34 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
When did the narrative change for Punk?

In WWE he was praised for being anti-establishment and lauded for standing up for himself against the machine. Similar characteristics on camera got Austin over as the biggest star in the industry.

In AEW he does the press conference and stands up for himself, defends himself and appears to be the same person. Now he is treated like a pariah by half the audience. Is it primarily more because of who he upset?
This. WWE is the evil empire. But our boys?!? How DARE he say anything bad!

See one of the previous statmets I just made about how the Bret/Shawn narrative has been warped over the last couple of decades. Bret is more of the villan for taking everything too seriously, and Shawn is the patron saint of being flashy. Especially to the AEW fans who merely want this to succeed just to spite WWE instead of wanting it to succeed because it's actually any good on a consistent basis.
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Old 08-30-2023, 01:55 AM   #207
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Punk is only the common denominator because it’s the same group of insecure, entitled cunts causing the problems. You don’t go on global fucking television and air your dirty laundry. Taking the issue up backstage? That’s an entirely different thing. Jack Perry tried to hijack AEW’s biggest show (or at least the free part of it). Fuck that noise. I HATE that sort of unprofessionalism. Give me a dick who at least turns it on when it’s showtime, thanks. Joey Janela did the same shit, Adam Page did it too.

Punk is the most important asset AEW has. They’re so lucky he doesn’t swing his dick around more. The fact Tony Khan can’t keep his lower ranks in line in some serious all-time horrendous management. Punk is the one trying to grow the business and help younger talent, and he’s out there fighting for himself because this shit is run so poorly.
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Old 08-30-2023, 02:09 AM   #208
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And Daniels being pro-Elite in the brawl is why Punk doesn’t want him at Collision, Seph. That’s exactly the point. There are too many people inept at their jobs in a position because of nepotism. The whole system there needs a gutting.
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Old 08-30-2023, 02:11 AM   #209
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And the Punk/Miro thing was a joke. Even Alvarez is walking back from it and swearing he didn’t make up stories…honest. Punk helped Miro in WWE, got him off the bench in AEW. Miro apparently checked on Punk and Punk said “Yeah, unless you want to fight me too. Let’s take it outside.” Then Miro said “Let’s take it to the ring.”
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Old 08-30-2023, 02:11 AM   #210
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NO FUCKING WAY

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Old 08-30-2023, 02:14 AM   #211
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Are they allowed to use “Together” like that in marketing?
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Old 08-30-2023, 02:37 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
And the Punk/Miro thing was a joke. Even Alvarez is walking back from it and swearing he didnít make up storiesÖhonest. Punk helped Miro in WWE, got him off the bench in AEW. Miro apparently checked on Punk and Punk said ďYeah, unless you want to fight me too. Letís take it outside.Ē Then Miro said ďLetís take it to the ring.Ē
Nice! Wonder who leaked the original story to the wrestling media.
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Old 08-30-2023, 04:54 AM   #213
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Alvarez said he heard it from “5” guys (not the Japanese faction). None of them apparently expressed it was a joke. Now people are saying either it didn’t happen or it was a joke, and Alvarez is calling them liars either now or at the time.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:16 AM   #214
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hilarious! Some might say that Alvarez is a cancer within the wrestling industry.

Last edited by Ben Rodrigues; 08-30-2023 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:23 AM   #215
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NO FUCKING WAY

Money says that Skye has no idea what this about. Because she is an idiot.

Or, LOOK! 3 big asses!
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:23 AM   #216
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My take away from all this continues to be that Hangmans the man. He should go over Punk for the "Real World Title" in a Diesel/Backlund style squash on a Chicago PPV.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:25 AM   #217
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Money says that Skye has no idea what this about. Because she is an idiot.

Or, LOOK! 3 big asses!
I dont get it, what am I missing?
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:45 AM   #218
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I dont get it, what am I missing?
A lot
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Old 08-30-2023, 06:51 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepholio View Post
Saying Shawn wasn't the draw Bret was immediately discredits you. Bret was a better wrestler, sure. But Shawn was also pretty damn good and had things Bret didn't, like charisma and showmanship.

Blaming the elite here is also stupid. How many stories have you heard about them sending people home? Outside of Punk, how many stories are there about them having nonstop confrontations with people backstage? Speaking of the elite, and also in reference to us not talking about out and out crimes here, didn't they just put over Punks besties, and specifically, Cash "I'll pull a strap on a buster" Wheeler?

A draw is who brings in money. If you don't know that Bret was a much bigger draw than Shawn then you are probably not factoring international markets where tours were booked around Bret, even while Shawn was champion (see 1996).

The elite went into Punks lockerroom - that escalated this. There is no denying that. Is Punk an asshole ? sure. He also drew more for AEW than anyone else on the roster. They dont just hand out timeslots on TNT - Collision is a thing because of Punks star power.

Punk is a problem in that he probably feels a responsibility and need to be the lockerroom leader. Thats on him. Jungle boy and the rest of the ELITE hated punk before there were any problems.

THE ELITE NEVER WANTED PUNK IN AEW - BEFORE ANY PROBLEMS
Here is a video of them reacting like assholes to Punk Debuting.




If you are an EVP of a company you would react like a jealous child to someone bringing such a strong position reaction to your company ?



Good Day Sir!
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Old 08-30-2023, 07:04 AM   #220
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Sir, they’re being facetious.
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Old 08-30-2023, 07:10 AM   #221
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Lol they went to his locker room because he told them to. Punk marks are the most in denial people lol.
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Old 08-30-2023, 07:30 AM   #222
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I dont get it, what am I missing?
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
A lot
What's wrong with Skye Blue?
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Old 08-30-2023, 09:38 AM   #223
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What's wrong with Skye Blue?
She isn't a smart person. I may have been harsher than I meant, but she isn't exactly the brightest crayon in the box. Thinking fans should just make their own Skye Blue hats instead of selling them, for instance. Not adding input for a match she was in, as mentioned by Lufisto.

The three asses jokes was a Crack at the 3rd best Chicago guy and the lesser Nemeth.

For the record, Punk is 2nd.
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Old 08-30-2023, 10:58 AM   #224
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The Elite don't send people home because they just play with the people they want to play with and really don't care about anything outside of that.


This really made me laugh but it makes sense. I do often believe that the MONEY MATCH is the Elite versus CMFTR but the Bucks won't do it because Punk will use the UFC experience he has and work super stiff with fists and submissions and the Bucks only realistically have flips that require oversells (Punk won't sell that shit) and kicks (which also require sells and Punk won't do it)
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Old 08-30-2023, 11:01 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Splaya View Post
This really made me laugh but it makes sense. I do often believe that the MONEY MATCH is the Elite versus CMFTR but the Bucks won't do it because Punk will use the UFC experience he has and work super stiff with fists and submissions and the Bucks only realistically have flips that require oversells (Punk won't sell that shit) and kicks (which also require sells and Punk won't do it)
Despite Punk's subpar in-ring skills, he's been a "professional" once the bell rings. I doubt he'd ever take liberties and harm his opponents even if he despises them.
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Old 08-30-2023, 11:23 AM   #226
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GD, I do not disagree with you. But if that was really the case, then why do the Bucks and Omega refuse the match then.
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Old 08-30-2023, 01:02 PM   #227
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Despite Punk's subpar in-ring skills, he's been a "professional" once the bell rings. I doubt he'd ever take liberties and harm his opponents even if he despises them.



He couldn't for real harm Tony Khan. He is an IRL bitch
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Old 08-30-2023, 02:41 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Vastardikai View Post
Money says that Skye has no idea what this about. Because she is an idiot.

Or, LOOK! 3 big asses!
I am wondering if Punk has some fued with Skye Blue that has not yet been made public considering who else is on the meet and greet
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Old 08-30-2023, 02:42 PM   #229
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Lol they went to his locker room because he told them to. Punk marks are the most in-denial people lol.
"Because he told them to" This is such a ridiculous statement to absolve the Elite.

So let me get this straight, EVP's of a company storm a contracted workers lockerroom knowing there is likely to be an altercation. Can you say "unsafe work environment"?

The end result is that Punk could have sued the company based on this. No wonder he can dictate who can be backstage and who can't.

Thank you for essentially proving the point that the Elite are a bunch of self-serving shitheads who are not thinking of the company but rather their own pals and interests.

Dont get me wrong - I used to like CM punk much more than I currently do. The problem is that you either play on the Elite's terms or you're on the outs. Punk is not a guy who will be bitched out, and the Elite knows this. They are peeved that he drew more people to AEW since its inception than any of them.

Punk is on a guaranteed contract. He has legal cause due tot he EVPs getting physical with him.
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Old 08-30-2023, 02:54 PM   #230
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Arguing over who was a bigger draw, Shawn/Bret doesnt really apply when you are using it to describe a company that the owner just recently admitted has not made a profit in going on 5 years.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:01 PM   #231
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Walk into someoneís private locker room as an employee of a venue or company uninvited and see what that opens for you, legality-wise. Barging into a starís personal locker room is very likely to be read as a breach of contract. And if the Bucks wanted a fight, they got one.

By the way, Punk said heíd walk up and down the halls to go with anyone who had a problem. He didnít invite people to kick in his door, smack his dog and threaten his friendís injured wife.

Punk takes things seriously. Probably too seriously in the inconsequential clown show that is modern wrestling. But if you canít the systemic attempts to bully and gaslight because thereís a guy who shows this can still be an art form? Youíre not thinking with your head.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:05 PM   #232
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Arguing over who was a bigger draw, Shawn/Bret doesnt really apply when you are using it to describe a company that the owner just recently admitted has not made a profit in going on 5 years.
Over simplification. AEW is gaining traction, and they will stabilize. If your basis of comparison is WWe then it will do you well to remember how long they have been in existence. Factor in the pandemic as well.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:07 PM   #233
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If I were Punk, this thing would go one of two ways:

1) I use a parachute clause in my contract or demand a buyout and go on my merry way because this shit isnít worth the stress or risks to my health. If Tony Khan canít educate his roster to not bite the hand that feeds them, fuck them. Letís see what happens when Tony has to justify Collision to get the TV rights fees he needs without the only needle-mover they have.

2) I go above Tony, get WBD to start laying down the law and start being tougher on these assholes. No more Jungle Boy. You act like that on the air and try to fuck a property trying to expand via WBD media platforms, you get fucking cut down. Pull your fucking heads in and start being professional. Thereís an effective and an ineffective way to do things, which is why CM Punk is money and basically no one else in the company is. They donít know what theyíre doing and wonít be listened to any more.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:12 PM   #234
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Iíve been in situations where you canít trust management to handle things or do right by people. It fucking sucks. I honestly donít know what Iíd do if I had the view of Tony Khan I imagine I would if I was in Punkís shoes. I really wouldnít blame him for leaving, whether he gets the full amount owing on his contract or not.

It might also depend on whether or not he can edge other guys out of their deals too. Thereís no doubt a bit of a hero complex in Punk. Does he want to leave FTR, Joe, Starks, Hobbs, Andrade, etc. to rot in that company? I guess it depends on what they want, but I doubt other talent have the escape clauses Punk does. Anyone looking to sign with AEW should look into that though.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:13 PM   #235
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Over simplification. AEW is gaining traction, and they will stabilize. If your basis of comparison is WWe then it will do you well to remember how long they have been in existence. Factor in the pandemic as well.
I am saying there is no reason to argue who is a bigger draw, Punk or Elite, since they haven't made any profit. That is not their faults, it is Tiny's. If that dude is giving the Young Bucks of all people $3 million a year, then the company clearly doesnt care about making money.

Who draws more in AEW doesn't matter in the slightest because there is no need to draw, Tony will fund it regardless. He is not putting up with all this shit because these guys are cash cows for him, he is putting up with it because he is afraid of people not liking him.

And what traction are they gaining BTW? All In is over, they are going right back to selling 4000 tickets and getting 850,000 tv viewers this week.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:15 PM   #236
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The boys and the office don't mix, and the boys SHOULDN'T be the office.

All EVPs should be stripped of any executive powers while they are currently active as talent. Tony Khan really needs to lay down the law on Punk and the Elite. He needs to bring in someone in talent relations than is not biased. He will learn - these things take time.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:23 PM   #237
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To be fair, Iím not sure The Elite actually have any power anymore. I think it was all stripped away when it became evident they werenít the bookers they claimed to be.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:25 PM   #238
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I am saying there is no reason to argue who is a bigger draw, Punk or Elite, since they haven't made any profit. That is not their faults, it is Tiny's. If that dude is giving the Young Bucks of all people $3 million a year, then the company clearly doesnt care about making money.

Who draws more in AEW doesn't matter in the slightest because there is no need to draw, Tony will fund it regardless. He is not putting up with all this shit because these guys are cash cows for him, he is putting up with it because he is afraid of people not liking him.

And what traction are they gaining BTW? All In is over, they are going right back to selling 4000 tickets and getting 850,000 tv viewers this week.
I'd bet this for sure.

If Punk is deemed to be off suspension and eligible to be at Collision, I would run advertisements stating "CM Punk to open Collision to discuss the events of All In". Ratings would be very high because a lot of people would tune in which would uspet the Bucks. But if the rating was just the same as the past, the Bucks could just argue "See no one cares about him".

Which would be ironic because it would mean AEW would be admitting that no one cares about Collision but whatever.
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Old 08-30-2023, 03:34 PM   #239
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Punk being a bigger draw is relevant because it shows what could hypothetically be possible under good management, versus what is just not possible at all. Thatís the source of all this Punk/Elite heat. Punk has proven that you can get 1 million viewers late Friday night. The narrative was supposed to be that the fuckabout gang was doing the best itís possible for anyone in their slot to do. False.

It doesnít matter if AEW has CM Punk, gets Goldberg, gets Steve Austin ó thatís where it becomes irrelevant, because the product is largely a joke outside the star power. Thatís on Tony.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:33 PM   #240
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Punk being a bigger draw is relevant because it shows what could hypothetically be possible under good management, versus what is just not possible at all. Thatís the source of all this Punk/Elite heat. Punk has proven that you can get 1 million viewers late Friday night. The narrative was supposed to be that the fuckabout gang was doing the best itís possible for anyone in their slot to do. False.

It doesnít matter if AEW has CM Punk, gets Goldberg, gets Steve Austin ó thatís where it becomes irrelevant, because the product is largely a joke outside the star power. Thatís on Tony.
LOL that happened once, because after 7 years people wanted to know what he would do. Any comeback he makes now does not have 7 years of waiting behind it. Collision had him come back after like 9 months, and they came nowhere close to a million viewers.
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