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Old 09-01-2023, 04:50 PM   #81
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Reflecting on the three threads about CM Punk, it's clear that people have chosen sides and no amount of debating will change anyone's mind.

Rrgardless of what we think of him, watching him accept that award it's clear he's won at life. He's happily married,baccomplished his dreams, has friends who love him and obtained the respect/"seal of approval" of the wrestling legends he grew up admiring.

He also appears to be happy that he's been able to impart advice to younger wrestlers who are willing to take it on and with the positive impact he's has on the lives of his fans. It's clear he wanted to give back to the business as someone who's drawn money by providingbadvice like those before him did for him (there's an interview with Hobbs who talks about CM Punk sitting down with him after every match and reviewing his with him work). Alas, not everyone is going to be receptive.

It's a bigger conversation around human needs/values. If you're someone who's highest values are needing to feel certainty along with important and you have this guy come in who is influential and in many ways minimises your work/contributions you're going to feel threatened and want to do what you can to fulfil/restore those needs. On the other hand, if your highest needs/values are more around growth you might be more receptive to what Punk has to offer.

I've oversimplified this but I can empathise with how some of the "AEW Originals" might be feeling.
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Old 09-01-2023, 05:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Dirty Dastard View Post
Dave "No Ulterior Motives And Only Neutral Sources" Meltzer.
When he said it came from a Neutral Source, he meant that “Neutral Source” is the gamer tag Brandon Cutler uses.
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Old 09-01-2023, 05:22 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Dirty Dastard View Post
Dave "No Ulterior Motives And Only Neutral Sources" Meltzer.
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I was just coming here to make a thread about this. I was going to ask what is wrong with this guy? Is this a worked shoot or something where he just pisses off everyone in the lockeroom?

If this is not some wrestling angle then seriously what's wrong with this dude? lol. It seems like wrestlers either love him or despise him with no in between
Jealousy is a hell of a thing. Punk came in, moved the needle (going deeper than ratings, it’s pretty widely accepted Punk has been good for AEW’s business) and actually mentored talent. He’s also got strong political opinions and came in to give his honest opinion on the product and how it can improve. It’s like hiring a Jim Cornette who is active in the ring. A lot of the roster wants to be in denial about what is possible, what is good and told that their shit don’t stink.

Punk’s big issues have been around The Elite’s camp, who were immediately handed power and have had an “everything is awesome” approach that has been threatened by someone coming in and pointing out there is actually an effective and ineffective way to do this. And Tony Khan won’t let the side with evidence on its side stand, he’s trying to embolden everyone and that’s allowing the party in the wrong to continue to fuck with people’s shit.
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Old 09-01-2023, 05:23 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues View Post
Reflecting on the three threads about CM Punk, it's clear that people have chosen sides and no amount of debating will change anyone's mind.

Rrgardless of what we think of him, watching him accept that award it's clear he's won at life. He's happily married,baccomplished his dreams, has friends who love him and obtained the respect/"seal of approval" of the wrestling legends he grew up admiring.

He also appears to be happy that he's been able to impart advice to younger wrestlers who are willing to take it on and with the positive impact he's has on the lives of his fans. It's clear he wanted to give back to the business as someone who's drawn money by providingbadvice like those before him did for him (there's an interview with Hobbs who talks about CM Punk sitting down with him after every match and reviewing his with him work). Alas, not everyone is going to be receptive.

It's a bigger conversation around human needs/values. If you're someone who's highest values are needing to feel certainty along with important and you have this guy come in who is influential and in many ways minimises your work/contributions you're going to feel threatened and want to do what you can to fulfil/restore those needs. On the other hand, if your highest needs/values are more around growth you might be more receptive to what Punk has to offer.

I've oversimplified this but I can empathise with how some of the "AEW Originals" might be feeling.
Great fucking post.
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Old 09-01-2023, 05:25 PM   #85
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If AEW were a nuclear power plant, CM Punk would be Frank Grimes and The Elite would be Homer.
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Old 09-01-2023, 05:32 PM   #86
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If AEW were a nuclear power plant, CM Punk would be Frank Grimes and The Elite would be Homer.
Haha nice
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Old 09-01-2023, 05:38 PM   #87
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“When people tell me that they don’t like me or that the internet is mad at me, I just chuckle because Roddy Piper liked me. Dusty Rhodes liked me and Harley Race liked me. And that means more than anything else in the world because these legends put their stamp on me before anyone else did. It gave me the confidence and it gave me the ability to succeed.” - CM Punk

Inspiring stuff.
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Old 09-01-2023, 06:00 PM   #88
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How about CM Phil got his ass beat so embarrassingly twice in UFC, that he should have never been given a top spot, or at the very least not a bad ass kick everybody's ass gimmick.

The fact that he has got into fights with the 3 weakest dudes who are playing wrestlers is proof he at least learned one lesson from UFC, dont get tough with anybody unless they are literal sheltered California gymnast.
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Old 09-01-2023, 06:07 PM   #89
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Old 09-01-2023, 06:10 PM   #90
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As a massive UFC fan, I don't even care about CM Punk's UFC run. Got a couple of nice entrances and video packages. He started in his late 30s. Anyone who knows anything about MMA wasn't expecting much. As far as UFC goes, he's an after thought.

They're different worlds. People watch AEW and accept Orange Cassidy's leg kicks and defend the clearly fake stuff a lot of the are the same people who come after CM Punk and his performances in the UFC. I can buy though him training MMA for years at this point with top MMA talent, he'd be able to defend himself in a fight.
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Old 09-01-2023, 06:27 PM   #91
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Should we celebrate the fact that CM Punk tried his luck in UFC despite not being talented enough? Or should we just call a spade a spade? I wonder if he was delusional enough to believe he'd have the same amount of success as Lesnar.
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Old 09-01-2023, 06:49 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
If AEW were a nuclear power plant, CM Punk would be Frank Grimes and The Elite would be Homer.
If AEW were Tool Time, CM Punk would be Al and the Elite would be Tim.
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Old 09-01-2023, 06:53 PM   #93
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I think it's cool that he was willing to do something that he wanted to do knowing that if he was exposed (which he was) there would be people who would criticise him. In a world where people care way too much about the voices and opinions on the outside, it's refreshing to watch someone put themselves out there like that in order to fulfil a desire he had. More people would be happier and more fulfilled if they went after what they wanted.

He started in his late 30s with no MMA background in a league with people having trained since they were children. He wasn't going to be Brock. WWE/AEW talent in the same situation would have gotten the same results.
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Old 09-01-2023, 07:48 PM   #94
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Quote:
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If AEW were Tool Time, CM Punk would be Al and the Elite would be Tim.
More superkicks! Ho-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho!
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Old 09-01-2023, 08:16 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
How about CM Phil got his ass beat so embarrassingly twice in UFC, that he should have never been given a top spot, or at the very least not a bad ass kick everybody's ass gimmick.

The fact that he has got into fights with the 3 weakest dudes who are playing wrestlers is proof he at least learned one lesson from UFC, dont get tough with anybody unless they are literal sheltered California gymnast.
And he can legitimately whoop the entire AEW roster. I can think of them as different disciplines, but the “CM Punk is a bad fighter” argument is clearly not holding weight in AEW. You’ve got to turn it on every bitch in that locker room.
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Old 09-01-2023, 08:19 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Dirty Dastard View Post
If AEW were Tool Time, CM Punk would be Al and the Elite would be Tim.
Ooh, that’s a good one. Now I want to see a lost Home Improvement episode where Al whoops Jonathan Taylor Thomas’ ass for getting out of line. Wilson is Jim Ross who hides his face because he’s ashamed to be involved.
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Old 09-01-2023, 11:03 PM   #97
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Quote:
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And he can legitimately whoop the entire AEW roster. I can think of them as different disciplines, but the “CM Punk is a bad fighter” argument is clearly not holding weight in AEW. You’ve got to turn it on every bitch in that locker room.
While there's some merit to what Noid is saying, I'd say Punk's in-ring work has been subpar as far his AEW run is concerned.
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Old 09-01-2023, 11:12 PM   #98
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Look, Punk represents what I want in wrestling which is a major reason why I'm on team Punk. Whether he's an ass hat or not he knows wrestling, wrestling history and respects it. The style he preferres is what I prefer and when he's around we get more of that.

I'm not a fan of cartoon characters, flippidy shit, kicking out after a devastating piledriver on a chair, blood in every match and all that. I want stories and rivalries that pull me in. Telling and advancing those stories while in the ring during matches. I don't feel I get that with what The Elite or TK do on their own. Its just matches thrown out there because "it'll be a good match". There's little in the way of build and its all over after a couple of weeks.

I want Punk there because he knows what people like me want and I don't want that to go away from AEW. The structure is there where the best in wrestling can happen which can't always be done in the WWE format. If Punk leaves again, more opportunities will be missed and it sucks when those go by the wayside.
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Old 09-01-2023, 11:14 PM   #99
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Rhodes seems to be doing a better version of that at the moment.
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Old 09-01-2023, 11:15 PM   #100
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It's around in pockets. Would be nice if it was all in one place.
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Old 09-01-2023, 11:32 PM   #101
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I do have a preference for your style of storytelling, Franky D. But I'd be lying if I don't get excited by Osprey and Omega matches. I like that pro wrestling isn't a monolith and can cater to different people with talents like Cassidy and Punk on the same show.
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Old 09-02-2023, 03:32 AM   #102
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Nothing wrong with being a punk fan. I was team punk on this board when he was still in RoH. I remember his big summerslam moment with DX and Kane Knight saying it was a fluke. I said then he would be a star if they stayed out of his way and let him get himself over.

Do i champion him post ufc? Absolutely not. Its a bad look. But i get why a person would like its work. If he had any credibility left id enjoy it too. And if all we had to go on was punk going out and putting the work in there'd be no drama. His work would shine above everyone elses and theyd freely choose to model themselves after his example strictly because they want his success for themsevles. Thats what being a role model is.

But thats not what he does. And what i cant get behind is his corrosive personality. Whats happening with punk now is no different than when punk was trying to be a leader in the wwf. He wants to stand in front of the boys and puff his chest out like he's the man cept now not only does everyone know he's a work but theyre not in company ran by adults. So there's no reason to not tell him to shut the fuck up and go sit in the corner and if it blows up from there so what?

Good leaders lead and people follow good leaders because theyre worth following. If you need to stand up and yell and demand they get in line then you arent fit for the job. Good locker room leaders are organically elected by sheer force of merit. You dont roll around in the floor like a toddler until you get your way, or in this case your own time slot.

No one wants to follow him. What greater indictment do you need?
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Old 09-02-2023, 03:42 AM   #103
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Nothing wrong with being a punk fan. I was team punk on this board when he was still in RoH. I remember his big summerslam moment with DX and Kane Knight saying it was a fluke. I said then he would be a star if they stayed out of his way and let him get himself over.

Do i champion him post ufc? Absolutely not. Its a bad look. But i get why a person would like its work. If he had any credibility left id enjoy it too. And if all we had to go on was punk going out and putting the work in there'd be no drama. His work would shine above everyone elses and theyd freely choose to model themselves after his example strictly because they want his success for themsevles. Thats what being a role model is.

But thats not what he does. And what i cant get behind is his corrosive personality. Whats happening with punk now is no different than when punk was trying to be a leader in the wwf. He wants to stand in front of the boys and puff his chest out like he's the man cept now not only does everyone know he's a work but theyre not in company ran by adults. So there's no reason to not tell him to shut the fuck up and go sit in the corner and if it blows up from there so what?

Good leaders lead and people follow good leaders because theyre worth following. If you need to stand up and yell and demand they get in line then you arent fit for the job. Good locker room leaders are organically elected by sheer force of merit. You dont roll around in the floor like a toddler until you get your way, or in this case your own time slot.

No one wants to follow him. What greater indictment do you need?
Some people want to follow him, and thats fine. But largely I agree with your point.

Apart from the return excitement and his feud with MJF I cant think of a lot of his thats stood out right now. A part of me is glad hes not facing Starks at the PPV, I would like to see Starks win not lose.
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Old 09-02-2023, 03:49 AM   #104
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Zero was definitely hyperbole on my part
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Old 09-02-2023, 07:38 AM   #105
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You're right in that AEW isn't run by adults. That goes into a TON of this.

People do want to follow him though. FTR, Starks, Hobbs, House of Black, Miro. Joe and Andrade are all who wanted to go work with him on Collision. I'm sure there are more.
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Old 09-02-2023, 07:58 AM   #106
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Punk's shit in WWE isn't part of this "common denominator" discussion. I'd argue he got along pretty friggin well there to get where he got. I know he was very Punk-esque on his way up and rubbed some people the wrong way, but he had a legit run there and made nice with the right people long enough to carve a legacy.

The thing is - and this is what someone like Destor will never understand because he thinks the moment you sign a contract, you're a slave - he eventually got tired of eating shit. So he walked out. People do it every day. For some reason, in wrestling, you're just expected to suck your boss's cock, even if he's the worst human alive. Punk got sick of it, walked out, and the drama ensued. But that doesn't detract from the LENGTHY successful run he had, which would have necessitated him getting along.

The AEW run is a different beast. He's run out of fucks to give, and he's got the leverage and power to do what the fuck he wants. On top of that, he clearly thrives on conflict, which should be harnessed in pro wrestling. Tony doesn't know how to do that because he's a Kendall Roy-esque nepo-baby and not an actual leader.

And to act like Punk is some common denominator and the Elite aren't is ridiculous. There's been non-stop rumblings of their general shittiness. The difference? They're passive-aggressive twerps (much like their Uncle Dave). Passive aggression doesn't quite make for the most salacious headlines, though. But if you're an aggressive guy like Punk, the passive aggression will PISS YOUR THE FUCK OFF, and you'll start looking for trouble. And that's when the headlines start.

I'm not saying Punk is reasonable, but I don't think he's any more unreasonable than some of our favorite pro wrestlers of the past. Hell, I'll cop to him being a total diva (lmfao, do with that what you will), but I'm fine with that.
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Old 09-02-2023, 08:32 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol Dirty Dastard View Post
Punk's shit in WWE isn't part of this "common denominator" discussion. I'd argue he got along pretty friggin well there to get where he got. I know he was very Punk-esque on his way up and rubbed some people the wrong way, but he had a legit run there and made nice with the right people long enough to carve a legacy.

The thing is - and this is what someone like Destor will never understand because he thinks the moment you sign a contract, you're a slave - he eventually got tired of eating shit. So he walked out. People do it every day. For some reason, in wrestling, you're just expected to suck your boss's cock, even if he's the worst human alive. Punk got sick of it, walked out, and the drama ensued. But that doesn't detract from the LENGTHY successful run he had, which would have necessitated him getting along.

The AEW run is a different beast. He's run out of fucks to give, and he's got the leverage and power to do what the fuck he wants. On top of that, he clearly thrives on conflict, which should be harnessed in pro wrestling. Tony doesn't know how to do that because he's a Kendall Roy-esque nepo-baby and not an actual leader.

And to act like Punk is some common denominator and the Elite aren't is ridiculous. There's been non-stop rumblings of their general shittiness. The difference? They're passive-aggressive twerps (much like their Uncle Dave). Passive aggression doesn't quite make for the most salacious headlines, though. But if you're an aggressive guy like Punk, the passive aggression will PISS YOUR THE FUCK OFF, and you'll start looking for trouble. And that's when the headlines start.

I'm not saying Punk is reasonable, but I don't think he's any more unreasonable than some of our favorite pro wrestlers of the past. Hell, I'll cop to him being a total diva (lmfao, do with that what you will), but I'm fine with that.
Excellent post.
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Old 09-02-2023, 08:33 AM   #108
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Dude was in the WWE system for almost a decade without much incident besides some disrespectful quips to Tony Atlas. WWE didn’t exactly shit-can him for having a bad attitude. He left.
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Old 09-02-2023, 10:23 AM   #109
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Excellent post.
+1
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Old 09-02-2023, 10:36 AM   #110
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"Once you sign a contract youre slave"

Such a weird statement. Id chop it up to a lack of understanding but i dont think thats the case. More like a clear ad hominiem. In the spririt of not having a grasp on my stance:

Slaves cant break the contract. Once you sign a contract you are however bound to the terms. Which covers if you sever the contract. Why anyone would think the penal portion of the contract shouldnt be observed is beyond me.

If you dont like your situation absolutely walk. Just be ready for your pre-mutually agreed obligations ex post facto. If thats slavery then the south shouldve won.
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Old 09-02-2023, 10:37 AM   #111
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And ftr none of that was his wwf drama i was referring to
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Old 09-02-2023, 12:35 PM   #112
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THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN
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Old 09-02-2023, 03:52 PM   #113
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Destor is a slave 2 dance numbers in movies.
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Old 09-02-2023, 03:53 PM   #114
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According to Fightful : there is video footage of Punk vs Perry and then Tony . It exists! now to wait for a leak
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Old 09-02-2023, 04:05 PM   #115
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I am not convinced at thos point that, if he did indeed go after Tony, Punk said something along the line of "get your fucking people in line!"
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Old 09-02-2023, 04:37 PM   #116
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CM Punk has been released
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Old 09-02-2023, 04:44 PM   #117
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Aye lmao
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Old 09-02-2023, 04:50 PM   #118
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They've removed him from the roster page as well
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Old 09-02-2023, 04:52 PM   #119
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God damnit
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Old 09-02-2023, 04:52 PM   #120
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Aye lmao
I think its the right move for Tony.

CM Punk has been tarnished after the first incident. He is on a knifes edge when it comes to the Elite so I think he just wasnt going to fit in.
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