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Old 11-25-2021, 03:34 PM   #241
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The thing with this Rock/Reigns deal is that the story writes itself; “The Head of the Table”, “The Tribal Chief”, the man that puts the food on the table for the whole family, confronted by his own cousin who’s the actual trailblazer, the biggest star on the planet. Cousin vs Cousin.

And when a story writes itself so easily and you don’t plan to deliver it you should be doing everything to go in the opposite direction - if you don’t want to disappoint your fan base that is.

At Survivor Series they clearly leaned into it. They might not have expressly advertised it but they hinted at it. They laid the table, pardon the pun. Which makes me think the plan is for it to happen at some point. Not in 2022 though.

You can’t blame the fans for anticipating on the night.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:54 AM   #242
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I have zero doubt that they are pushing really hard to have the Rock put over Reigns, as they should.
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Old 11-26-2021, 09:40 PM   #243
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The thing with this Rock/Reigns deal is that the story writes itself; ďThe Head of the TableĒ, ďThe Tribal ChiefĒ, the man that puts the food on the table for the whole family, confronted by his own cousin whoís the actual trailblazer, the biggest star on the planet. Cousin vs Cousin.

And when a story writes itself so easily and you donít plan to deliver it you should be doing everything to go in the opposite direction - if you donít want to disappoint your fan base that is.

At Survivor Series they clearly leaned into it. They might not have expressly advertised it but they hinted at it. They laid the table, pardon the pun. Which makes me think the plan is for it to happen at some point. Not in 2022 though.

You canít blame the fans for anticipating on the night.
I agree that the story writes itself, but I donít think avoiding your public relationship with The Rock just because people want to see a match that canít happen is the answer. And Iím not sure how many casual fans have actually expected these two to have a match, or The Rock to even come back. It may just be this pocket of hardcore fans who want to fantasy book because their interest in this goes just far enough without realizing The Rock is too big a star to work matches now.

I donít think ďHey, 25 years ago the biggest star on the planet made his debut with us, weíre going to talk about thatĒ necessarily sends the promotional message the IWC is claiming it does.
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Old 11-27-2021, 04:07 AM   #244
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But it wasn’t just the promotional packages. The scene with Vince and Reigns that referenced The Rock didn’t really add anything other than calling out the relationship between Reigns and Rock. That planted a seed. Whether they intended it to - and whether or not that was intentional - is debatable.
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Old 11-27-2021, 06:18 AM   #245
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Let’s not forget that Roman also hit the Rock Bottom during the match.
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Old 11-27-2021, 05:50 PM   #246
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But it wasnít just the promotional packages. The scene with Vince and Reigns that referenced The Rock didnít really add anything other than calling out the relationship between Reigns and Rock. That planted a seed. Whether they intended it to - and whether or not that was intentional - is debatable.
I donít think the Rock Bottom means anything. Theyíre related. Itís like if a Hart uses a Sharpshooter. I canít comment on the Vince/Reigns stuff.

By the way, if Rock is coming back in some capacity for WrestleMania ó host, enforcer, etc. ó it was doubtful he was going to establish that at Survivor Series anyway. Thatís Raw after Royal Rumble type stuff.
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Old 11-28-2021, 05:00 AM   #247
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Yeah it could be just a little “shout out” to The Rock on the 25th anniversary of his debut.

For the record, I don’t think they do Rock/Reigns at next year’s Mania, if anything they do something to set it up for WrestleMania Hollywood II in the same vein as they set up Rock vs. Cena “Once” in a lifetime.
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Old 11-28-2021, 01:25 PM   #248
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I can see there being some sort of interaction at some point, but I just can’t see Rock working a match at this point. Being in ring shape and finding the time to do that as opposed to doing movies and otherwise being an entrepreneur just doesn’t seem to fit. I can see him involved in WrestleMania — possibly even the next two — but I just can’t see him working that match with Reigns. The role for him seems to be something like raising the hand of the guy who beats Reigns. Maybe slapping Heyman out, motivating The Usos to stand up for themselves. That sort of thing.
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Old 11-28-2021, 01:36 PM   #249
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I can see there being some sort of interaction at some point, but I just canít see Rock working a match at this point. Being in ring shape and finding the time to do that as opposed to doing movies and otherwise being an entrepreneur just doesnít seem to fit. I can see him involved in WrestleMania ó possibly even the next two ó but I just canít see him working that match with Reigns. The role for him seems to be something like raising the hand of the guy who beats Reigns. Maybe slapping Heyman out, motivating The Usos to stand up for themselves. That sort of thing.
I agree with you
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Old 11-29-2021, 11:03 AM   #250
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Rock will acknowledge Reigns and be in his corner. Heyman will get the boot from "the family" and go back to Brock's corner.


Pay me.
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Old 12-05-2021, 12:00 AM   #251
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Since #fan has been going absolutely insane about this in the Ratings Thread, I’m going to come back in here and explain myself because he’s latched onto this so hard:

I checked out TPWW on my lunch break and saw a bunch of people, can’t remember who, acting like The Rock was back. When I’ve signed in, I think I’ve got a lot of them on ignore (so probably Guru Dave and/or Damien Rey), which is further proof of why ignoring them was a great idea. I had a little laugh at how fickle a large contingent of the online wresting audience can be, with their simple WWE = bad narrative, and my perception that they were complaining that they somehow got The Rock back. I then got attacked because it turns out The Rock didn’t come back (which would have been my guess, considering the dude is SO fucking busy and can’t afford to take bumps), and for not actually watching a show they were complaining about.

So take it as a hypothetical. I’m sure if The Rock did come back and raise Roman’s arm or something, they would complain. Yes, that’s a hasty generalization, but I think it’s a correct one. But I in no way feel embarrassed about scanning TPWW, taking in some bullshit posts and making a flippant comment. Nor am I embarrassed because I did not watch Survivor Series, lol. I also stand by everything I said about it making total sense for the WWE to promote The Rock’s debut at the event 25 years ago, and it being pretty unreasonable to expect the guy to come roaring back into wrestling when it could jeopardize his film schedule.

I hope that clears things up. I did not know if Rock actually came back or not — I would have said no. In fact, I said in Vastardikai’s thread that it may be possible for him to send in a video or something, which would have been cool, but that’s about the most you could hope for. I just read that he had from some shitty posters, and made a flippant remark about how fickle some people are. It works whether he actually came back or not, because I’m pretty sure those people are going to remain as fickle.

Cheers! Your friendly neighborhood Noid.
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Old 12-05-2021, 01:14 AM   #252
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Ah, so Noid does have me on ignore but logs in without his account so he can still view my posts. I wish he’d stop creepily obsessing over me. Like get over me pal. Plans change.
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Old 12-05-2021, 03:22 AM   #253
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Oh. Since it bumped...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
You try and call me out, but you’ve been swinging and missing too much lately, with a Guru Dave or BigCrippyZ level of obsession. And it’s been ever since *I* called *you* out because you can’t deal with that, being the sea lion that you are.

“The New Avengers movie sucked. I can’t believe Spider-Man got killed in the first ten minutes.”
“I had no clue Spider-Man was going to die because Tom Holland is signed on for way more movies, but there’s probably a reason if you think about it.”
“Spider-Man didn’t even die! Haha! If you had seen the movie you would know that!”
“Well, I hadn’t seen the movie…”
“How embarrassing for you!”
“I don’t really like the Avengers movies that much anymore. I still follow them loosely, but I haven’t been into them because they kind of suck.”
“Then why do you still talk about Avengers movies?”
“It’s a habit and I’m still obsessed with comic books and comic book movies. Not that I can find a comic book movie that is very good. And the discussion around comic books isn’t very stimulating these days.”
“Mental gymnastics!!! Lol, I can’t believe you actually thought Spider-Man died.”



I’m not the one doing backflips here.
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Holy shit. This glimpse into how Noid’s brain views himself and this interaction is wild.

From that very polite first response to the blatant avoidance of major parts of the conversation as he becomes a poor innocent victim.

There is a serious mental issue at play here. Fucking hell.
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I also love how he’s trying the “You started calling me out after I called you out!” thing. Lol

I can literally point out the exact moment where I stopped biting my tongue because Noid and I were friends and said “fuck it” and started making him defend his more ridiculous bullshit. I can also pinpoint the moment after I started doing that where he started desperately trying to call ME out to try to save face. He’s trying really hard to flip history on events that have the dates posted right there on the left.

Combine that with the absolutely insane interpretation he gave with that Spider-man analogy earlier. The guy seriously creates his own world in his mind with its own events and its own special logic and then argues based on that.
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Old 12-05-2021, 03:33 AM   #254
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Oh. Since it bumped...







Oh, that Spider-Man analogy? Yeah, I stand by it. Sorry, dude. People tried to dogpile me because they finally thought they had me in a “gotcha.” I didn’t see the show and made a remark about people complaining about what would obviously be a good thing. You’re trying really hard to squint and see something in it that isn’t there.

By the way, I call you out because you’ve become a shallow apologist who can’t even answer direct questions, seemingly focused on trying to catch me in some sort of moment where I get something wrong, like it matters. Because it does to you. So much for some reason. It became really apparent after I called you out on the frivolity of your “they should hire talented people regardless of where they come from.” That cut you real deep. Since then you’ve been projecting the same embarrassment onto me.

I’ll say it again: Only in the IWC would you find people complaining about the return of The Rock. I stand by that completely.
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Old 12-05-2021, 03:41 AM   #255
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Throwing a “can’t even answer direct questions” in a post where you clearly dodge the direct problems being stated isn’t helping your case...
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Old 12-05-2021, 03:56 AM   #256
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Neither is going back to the awkwardly desperate reach of that “hiring talented people“ argument you tried to start to save face after I started calling you on your bullshit. You REALLY felt good about that one in your fantasy world. You can go ahead and bump that thread and try again too after you duck and dodge here for a while.
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Old 12-05-2021, 04:00 AM   #257
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Throwing a ďcanít even answer direct questionsĒ in a post where you clearly dodge the direct problems being stated isnít helping your case...
In the Ratings Thread you have been avoiding the same question for quite a while now. And I have responded directly to what youíve posted. I stand by it. Iíve restated my opinion on the matter several times now. I donít agree with your assessment at all. I could say the exact same thing right back at you. Always trying to diagnose people and shit.

When was the last time you actually made a point instead of trying to smear people? The last actual point youíve made. Not the last time you said someone is delusional or whatever to dismiss them outright? You act like youíre Mr. Logic, but youíve been nothing but ad hominem and insecurity lately.

I could have just said ďWait, The Rock didnít come back? Why the fuck are there muppets on here acting like he did?Ē By then I was already being called names because I didnít watch the show and ďfell for itĒ or whatever. Iíll admit that I made no effort to diffuse it, but I donít see my doubling down on it the way you do.

Wrestling fans are fickle and they absolutely would whinge if The Rock returned. It was a little jab. It doesnít actually matter if he did or not. But people are acting like me acting on the assumption that something posted here was actually true is bonkers. Lol, what? I saw something, quipped about it, got mocked (Iím not the one who watched Survivor Series) and stand by what I said. And my perception of it. Thereís such a willingness to dogpile someone when they go against the grain here. Whether itís me, xrod, CyNick or someone else. Iím not ďplaying a victim.Ē Itís been the way this place has been for some time. I donít like it, per se, but it doesnít worry me, because I honestly get a kick out of how much heat I get for what I believe is honesty that stings people because they recognize the truth in it.
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Old 12-05-2021, 04:03 AM   #258
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I don’t tread lightly on people. Maybe I should be kinder? I dunno, but I don’t expect them to tread lightly on me either. But I don’t agree with the assessment you’re making of the situation at all. I don’t think you’re right. I do believe it’s you doing the gymnastics to try and get me into a position where I’m “wrong” because you are pretty darn desperate to try and get one over me.
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Old 12-05-2021, 04:25 AM   #259
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Iíll say it again: Only in the IWC would you find people complaining about the return of The Rock. I stand by that completely.
What a little cunt. Disgusting.
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Old 12-05-2021, 04:35 AM   #260
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For the sake of trying to get you to see the problem in just ONE small issue...

You get dog piled on with the same energy you give.

Your analogy showed you as a poor innocent victim giving a nice, polite response and then getting shit on for it by a bunch of assholes.

Reality showed an asshole making a smug insult based on something that it turns out didn’t happen and he got shit on for it with the same “asshole energy”.

Go ahead and be a smug asshole. But don’t pretend you’re just a poor boy being ganged up on when it backfires and that same energy is returned.
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Old 12-05-2021, 05:04 AM   #261
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What fan said. I didn’t have a problem with Noid until he started being an asshole to the regular contributors. He deserves a slice of humble pie.
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Old 12-05-2021, 08:35 AM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
Throwing a ďcanít even answer direct questionsĒ in a post where you clearly dodge the direct problems being stated isnít helping your case...
One time Noid complained that a segment "did well on TV but it didn't look good on paper," so he couldn't say it was a good segment. I asked him to clarify what that meant. He wrote five essays about how Jimmy Jacobs (who either wrote or took credit for the segment) was working me or some shit. I never mentioned Jimmy Jacobs at all and Noid never got close to answering the question.
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Old 12-05-2021, 10:52 AM   #263
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Old 12-05-2021, 06:20 PM   #264
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I don’t think I’ve seen so many words written by someone because they made a bit of a tit of themselves.
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Old 12-05-2021, 09:33 PM   #265
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Lmao a simple “oops should’ve read the results instead of only looking here” and a chuckle at himself would’ve squashed this immediately. Instead he’s just digging deeper and deeper holes.
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:12 AM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
For the sake of trying to get you to see the problem in just ONE small issue...

You get dog piled on with the same energy you give.

Your analogy showed you as a poor innocent victim giving a nice, polite response and then getting shit on for it by a bunch of assholes.

Reality showed an asshole making a smug insult based on something that it turns out didnít happen and he got shit on for it with the same ďasshole energyĒ.

Go ahead and be a smug asshole. But donít pretend youíre just a poor boy being ganged up on when it backfires and that same energy is returned.
I didnít pretend I was a ďpoor boy.Ē I donít know how you can so confidently accuse people of ďliving in a different realityĒ when you go ahead and project massively onto others. I just didnít say it with the certainty I was accused of and piled on for. And Iím not complaining about that, because I give as good as I get (although I do generally try to make actual points instead of leaning on insults, etc.). Iím just stating thatís what happened.

Do yanks really struggle with hypotheticals and conditional statements? Iíve noticed you in particular do this a lot. It doesnít matter whether or not the thing I was responding to was actually true or not. Iím just befuddled at how many people latched onto me not being sure it didnít happen as a ďgotcha.Ē
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:17 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
One time Noid complained that a segment "did well on TV but it didn't look good on paper," so he couldn't say it was a good segment. I asked him to clarify what that meant. He wrote five essays about how Jimmy Jacobs (who either wrote or took credit for the segment) was working me or some shit. I never mentioned Jimmy Jacobs at all and Noid never got close to answering the question.
This would have been the Festival of Friendship. I thought it was shit, but it seemed to work for some people. If you look at the actual material, as it was written — absolutely shit. People were suckered in by it because they’re attracted to the personalities involved — Chris Jericho, Kevin Owens, Jimmy Jacobs. Jericho was hamming it up in the segment, and people have always been lenient when it comes to Jericho’s shit.

I would have said this all at the time. I can do it by memory. I think you’re either misremembering or flat-out lying.
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Old 12-06-2021, 05:18 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL View Post
I donít think Iíve seen so many words written by someone because they made a bit of a tit of themselves.
Lol I fucking love this shit, man.
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Old 12-06-2021, 09:15 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid
I think Jericho's recent run is completely overrated from every standpoint other than Jericho's performance. Like, Jericho is king, so he puts the hard work in and it shines, but on paper it was so average it hurts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Screech
lol why does it matter what it looked like on paper if it worked on the show?

Quote:
Bad ideas executed well aren't necessarily good ideas. And it doesn't take a genius to say "Hey Jericho, go and be Jericho." It's nice to see Jericho making money from the company, but I could have done without pretty much all of it. Far from Jericho's most significant or best work. Some people say that it is. I say that's overrating it by quite a lot.

Most of what I saw of it was Jericho polishing turds. That's got charm to it. And that's how I'd describe Jericho's recent run: charming. But give that shit to anyone else and it fucking sucks hard. I'd rather just not see the turds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid
It was literally being discussed because Jimmy Jacobs was credited with writing it. It's not something that got over because it was some genius piece of crafted fiction. It's something that got over because Jericho is so fucking good. With anyone else it's just another tag team splitting up (which is what it turned out to be anyway).

This is Russo taking credit for the This is Your Life segment. No one was like "Oh, This is Your Life...awesome!" It was "holy shit, The Rock is funny." There's nothing inherently good about a "Festival of Friendship" idea. In fact, it sounds fucking shit. Jericho stealing the show despite this made it fairly memorable for modern stuff. Alleging that Jimmy Jacobs is some sort of creative genius for helping Jericho get dumb stuff over is a far cry from him being a good "writer" or even booker.

More power to the guy. I liked the Lacey stuff. But WWE has vastly been shit. He has been helping writing it. I'm not going to think the dude is an amazing writer now just because he's outside the big evil company instead of contributing to it.

God, people are so easily worked. Jimmy Jacobs could give your average internet fan's sister herpes, then get sympathy from them because his dick's itchy. And people say that kayfabe wouldn't work today.

Quote:
I barely know or care who Jimmy Jacobs is. If he wrote it or didn't, or took credit for it - who cares?

My question, which you still haven't answered even in this essay, is why does it matter what it looks like on paper if it worked on the show?

Whether or not you like who wrote it or how it seemed it would be is irrelevant if the end result is something you've admittedly enjoyed. Jericho was given an idea to work with and he crushed it, as usual. Are you unable to just enjoy that part of it without bitching?

Quote:
Because that is what we were talking about. It's the whole conversation.

Your question is not pertinent. I have very purposefully avoided engaging with it.

I actually didn't enjoy the segment. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I can accept that people generally enjoyed it though. I'm not a big fan of Jericho's latest run. I just appreciate him as a talent. But I could do without the list stuff entirely. It's been well-received though, so whatever. My point is just that I believe he deserves all the credit for that, because the things he was given to do were, in my opinion, terrible. You can disagree with me on that, and that's fine. But your question about how it ended up isn't relevant to my line of thinking, because how it was exists outside star and performance is entirely my concern.

And before you go and ask the same question again, that is because that is what I am talking about. I don't care if something is shit when it is written and then turns out to be great, except when I am talking specifically about how it is shit when it's written. Within that context, yes, that is everything to do with the point I am making. Why were we talking about that? Because I asked what Jimmy Jacobs did and someone said "He's been given credit for this," and I said "Eh, I don't think he deserves credit for that." That is what we were talking about. Who takes credit is the subject matter. Not whether or not that ultimately matters.
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Old 12-06-2021, 09:36 AM   #270
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As usual only read the results and judging solely by them, this event sucked ass.
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Old 12-06-2021, 10:11 AM   #271
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How it started...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
Only the IWC would get The Rock back and complain about it.
How Noid thinks it started...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
“I had no clue Spider-Man was going to die because Tom Holland is signed on for way more movies, but there’s probably a reason if you think about it.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I didn’t pretend I was a “poor boy.” I don’t know how you can so confidently accuse people of “living in a different reality” when you go ahead and project massively onto others.
This is gonna continue as a “No, YOU!” back and forth now from the looks of it. I’m just gonna let the actual, real quotes speak for themselves.
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:05 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drave View Post
screech’s post
There you go. Weird you dragged it up, but thanks. So I did actually address the question. I said I purposefully didnt engage with it, but I really did.

TL;DR : Basically what I said before. An idea isn’t necessarily good in conception even if it is salvaged by performance, etc. These can also be detrimental to your end product. But even if something works, you can still criticize its writing. That’s a direct answer to the question. I just thought it was the wrong question to ask, which I could have explained better at the time.
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:06 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
How it started...



How Noid thinks it started...





This is gonna continue as a ďNo, YOU!Ē back and forth now from the looks of it. Iím just gonna let the actual, real quotes speak for themselves.
I donít deny thatís what I posted first. And I still stand by it. Why are you making up a reality that doesnít exist, huh?
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:10 PM   #274
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By the way, I gave Jericho way too much grace as a performer. He’s kind of the shits and has been for a long, long time now.
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:40 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
There you go. Weird you dragged it up, but thanks. So I did actually address the question. I said I purposefully didnt engage with it, but I really did.

TL;DR : Basically what I said before. An idea isnít necessarily good in conception even if it is salvaged by performance, etc. These can also be detrimental to your end product. But even if something works, you can still criticize its writing. Thatís a direct answer to the question. I just thought it was the wrong question to ask, which I could have explained better at the time.



I just did a quick search and posted what was being discussed. Nothing weird at all at bringing posts in question in plain sight is there?
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:45 PM   #276
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lol it took me randomly remembering that interaction after months/years(?) and someone else posting the quotes to finally answer a direct question. Congratulations.

(and you still claim you addressed it despite evidence staring you in the face that you did not)
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Old 12-06-2021, 02:55 PM   #277
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Dude just accused me of “making up a reality that doesn’t exist” in response to me simply quoting his ACTUAL initial post followed by his ACTUAL warped interpretation. Lol Unbelievable.

This thread is a Noid-logic, hole-digging gift from God.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:08 PM   #278
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I didn't watch Survivor Series, but I'm glad I stumbled into this thread anyway. What a treat.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:11 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screech View Post
lol it took me randomly remembering that interaction after months/years(?) and someone else posting the quotes to finally answer a direct question. Congratulations.

(and you still claim you addressed it despite evidence staring you in the face that you did not)
How did I not answer it? I literally responded to it.

Where is this evidence I did not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-norm-fan View Post
Dude just accused me of ďmaking up a reality that doesnít existĒ in response to me simply quoting his ACTUAL initial post followed by his ACTUAL warped interpretation. Lol Unbelievable.

This thread is a Noid-logic, hole-digging gift from God.
I never denied that was my initial post. In fact, thatís the post I have been most preoccupied with and have explained and stood by. I donít see anything warped about my interpretation of it, nor do I even see how your quotes connect to it.

Iíve noticed you do this a lot, but there is a lot of dishonesty is how you attempt to argue. I donít even remember that Spider-Man analogy, but do stand by it. Where did I ever claim that was how I think this ďstarted?Ē Can you find that, or did you just pull it out of your ass because it is convenient?

Again, where did I claim I was a ďpoor boy?Ē You just flat-out lie at this point.
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Old 12-06-2021, 03:23 PM   #280
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I’ve stood back and watched it without commenting in the past, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a string of quotes from you that a) actually connect to each other, and b) actually say what you think they say. They’re at best cherry-picked and disconnected, at worst blatantly dishonest and misleading.

It’s all the more annoying because you seem to place pride in logic. But I genuinely don’t think you understand it anywhere near the level you think you do. Your reasoning is constantly fallacious. You’re responding emotionally to things and letting that influence your reading. And everyone is capable of that, but you really seem to think you’re above it. And you seem to suffer from the conviction that you’re right, and if you’re right, then if you said it, it’s right.

Can you actually back up either of your accusations that:

a) I believe that this didn’t start with my comment about The Rock?

b) I actually labeled myself any sort of victim?

These are untruths, man. They’re just false, lol.
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