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Old 05-26-2019, 07:49 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
I'd change Sting vs Hogan at Starrcade 97 to a cage match and have Sting go over without the shenanigans.
I thought about some WCW ones, but the thing with WCW is that they were always going to make bone-headed decisions just because of the philosophy and mentality of people there. You can change one finish, then you're going to get politics fucking up something a month later.

In a perfect world, Hogan would have been willing to play ball and maybe build to something with Bret. But it isn't and he wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Iceman King Gertner View Post
I wouldn't put that on Austin. Business was trending down prior to the turn. You could argue his heel work in 2001 was his best character work. I much prefer 2001 Austin over 98-2000 Stone Cold.
I don't blame Austin's performances or anything. There was an air around the product, you're right, and it didn't help that they were losing all their babyfaces. They probably should have had a tiny bit more foresight and had people built up to go against a heel Austin should they have wanted to go down that route.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Seanny One Ball View Post
You have seen so much though.

The best thing you introduced me to was Mid South. At least the matches are almost uniformly solid affairs.
I just can't get behind your Dick Murdoch love or this Billy Graham stuff.

Dick Murdoch had the worst legs in the business besides Jay Strongbow.

Admit it.
Murdoch had one of the best punches ever. He just looked like a sack of shit. But he was amazing.

Billy Graham had a three matches series with Dusty at the Garden, and the matches are really good.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:59 PM   #43
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I agree that Sting going over clean in a cage really wouldn't have changed much but that's just how it should have been.

Also, haven't been real active recently and thought Gustavo Fringe was a Guru Dave phase at first. Pretty cool thread idea though Gustavo.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:07 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
I agree that Sting going over clean in a cage really wouldn't have changed much but that's just how it should have been.

Also, haven't been real active recently and thought Gustavo Fringe was a Guru Dave phase at first. Pretty cool thread idea though Gustavo.
Thanks man. The time travel thread I made in casual didnt fare as well.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:08 PM   #45
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A lot of stuff you can change. With WWE being in the state that it's in currently, I'd probably go change something more recent.

So, I'll go with Survivor Series 2012. The Main Event is CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback in a triple threat match for the belt. And, this is where The Shield is introduced to us for the first time.

I would have had CM Punk go over squeaky clean with zero Shield interference. So, they would be nullified and would eventually find their own way to the roster.

Roman Reigns would not be shoved down our throats as Vince's eventual true love AKA "The Guy".

Seth Rollins probably wouldn't have 25 nicknames to his credit, change his finisher multiple times, be a more careful worker in the ring, and probably find his own way to stardom with the talent he got.

Dean Ambrose probably ends up being the most popular of the bunch with his attitude and durability.

Trying to think of other big, recent moment that can be changed so the product can be better. Definitely something with John Cena.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:26 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ClockShot View Post
A lot of stuff you can change. With WWE being in the state that it's in currently, I'd probably go change something more recent.

So, I'll go with Survivor Series 2012. The Main Event is CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback in a triple threat match for the belt. And, this is where The Shield is introduced to us for the first time.

I would have had CM Punk go over squeaky clean with zero Shield interference. So, they would be nullified and would eventually find their own way to the roster.

Roman Reigns would not be shoved down our throats as Vince's eventual true love AKA "The Guy".

Seth Rollins probably wouldn't have 25 nicknames to his credit, change his finisher multiple times, be a more careful worker in the ring, and probably find his own way to stardom with the talent he got.

Dean Ambrose probably ends up being the most popular of the bunch with his attitude and durability.

Trying to think of other big, recent moment that can be changed so the product can be better. Definitely something with John Cena.
My goodness... Im gonna say you messed up the entire WWE timeline with these little changes. So bad that now Vince cloned himself and now is starting to clone more John Cenas! Duh du nana!
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:36 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Iceman King Gertner View Post
Murdoch had one of the best punches ever. He just looked like a sack of shit. But he was amazing.

Billy Graham had a three matches series with Dusty at the Garden, and the matches are really good.

I don't see you denying the bad legs factor.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:09 PM   #48
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Montreal screwjob
If you reverse it it gets pretty interesting. It isn't even far fetched as Bret had the lifetime contract and if money was good enough Vince would have probably stuck to it. Had he screwed Shawn in that match and forced him out if the company would have changed a bunch. Shawn ended up with a Nitro girl so fate could have led him to WCW but what they did with him would be the key.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:43 AM   #49
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I'm gonna say Mania 34 WWE Title Match with Shinsuke going over. It wouldn't have hurt AJ at all, but WWE flushed their biggest ever opportunity have a Japanese Superstar. Not to mention Shinsuke could have been a cornerstone for the company going to Fox, instead of in a turd of a tag team.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:57 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Simple Fan View Post
If you reverse it it gets pretty interesting. It isn't even far fetched as Bret had the lifetime contract and if money was good enough Vince would have probably stuck to it. Had he screwed Shawn in that match and forced him out if the company would have changed a bunch. Shawn ended up with a Nitro girl so fate could have led him to WCW but what they did with him would be the key.
Vince had the money to pay Shawn. Charging extra for PPVs got him out of the hole. He just didn't want to pay Bret that much anymore and the Bret/Shawn dynamic was a headache. Plus, I think Vince understood that having talent clogging the top, even if it is someone as good as Bret Hart, was counterproductive then.

One thing I never hear getting talked about is why Bret over Shawn. I mean, Bret was getting paid double, but I wonder about the other factors compounding that issue. Bret ran with Davey Boy and Owen. He had no allies in WCW. Shawn ran with Hunter and had Nash & Hall with influence in WCW.

I wonder if the risk of Shawn being used well in WCW scared Vince out of ever letting him go. Shawn may not have been the biggest ratings or PPV draw in the WWF, but if he went to WCW where he could have been "cool?" Well, who knows how that would change history?
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:20 AM   #51
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He'd have to be used to unseat Hogan as the lead of the NWO as Bret really should have if they wanted to go that way. Overall I don't think it changes anything other than Shawn not taking the casket bump and not having to retire early on the WCW side. WWF would have seen some changes with Bret hanging around but I still think Austin, Rock, and HHH out do him.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:26 AM   #52
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He'd have to be used to unseat Hogan as the lead of the NWO as Bret really should have if they wanted to go that way. Overall I don't think it changes anything other than Shawn not taking the casket bump and not having to retire early on the WCW side. WWF would have seen some changes with Bret hanging around but I still think Austin, Rock, and HHH out do him.
What casket bump?
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:32 AM   #53
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What casket bump?
1998 Royal Rumble. He landed on the casket that led to his retirement. Toughed it out til Mania to put over Austin.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:36 AM   #54
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He'd have to be used to unseat Hogan as the lead of the NWO as Bret really should have if they wanted to go that way. Overall I don't think it changes anything other than Shawn not taking the casket bump and not having to retire early on the WCW side. WWF would have seen some changes with Bret hanging around but I still think Austin, Rock, and HHH out do him.
Hogan was never going to play ball with Bret. It's doubtful he would have with Shawn, but he'd be dealing with someone that might have had more of a backstage backing and someone that might have been able to manipulate Hogan back into being a face and edging himself out more.

Shawn's back injury was exaggerated. He did get the surgery, but his personal problems were keeping him away from a proper comeback. I think he was working matches in 2000.

If Shawn manages to get a hold in WCW, no way HHH doesn't jump. He signed a five-year deal once he knew the WCW ship was sinking, or he was at least hedging his bets and playing Pascal's wager a little bit. If Vince went broke, he could always go to WCW. But I don't think he outdoes Bret in the WWF if Shawn is not there to be the top guy and they actually need to lean on him a bit. Without Shawn to buddy up to, he probably finds himself without allies and may not get out of the mid-card there.

God damn, a Bret vs. Rock feud could have been tremendous.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:43 AM   #55
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HHH jumping to WCW is even crazier to think about. Think he'd do fine in WWF without Shawn as he did. But if Shawn and HHH are jumping to WCW around 1998 HHH isn't anything like he is now. Hell that might also pull Chyna over and he stays with her. That's a real time twister there.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:14 PM   #56
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People can post or I will... what the effect or backlash it had in the timeline. Grn Rep for everyone who participates.

There was one match in 2001 I believe that occurred between Jericho and The Rock. It was right before the Invasion angle I believe, but my memory is fading. Jericho and The Rock fought each other in a face-vs-face match. It was a great match and as the match progressed, Jericho slowly started to gain the upper hand before heels interfered and ended the match. I feel like if Jericho had gone over clean here, it would have really put him over the top as a legit guy (as opposed to the flukey transitional champion that he became later).
Believe it or not, the fans were a little more in Jericho's corner than they were The Rock's.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:29 PM   #57
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Hogan was never going to play ball with Bret. It's doubtful he would have with Shawn, but he'd be dealing with someone that might have had more of a backstage backing and someone that might have been able to manipulate Hogan back into being a face and edging himself out more.

Shawn's back injury was exaggerated. He did get the surgery, but his personal problems were keeping him away from a proper comeback. I think he was working matches in 2000.

If Shawn manages to get a hold in WCW, no way HHH doesn't jump. He signed a five-year deal once he knew the WCW ship was sinking, or he was at least hedging his bets and playing Pascal's wager a little bit. If Vince went broke, he could always go to WCW. But I don't think he outdoes Bret in the WWF if Shawn is not there to be the top guy and they actually need to lean on him a bit. Without Shawn to buddy up to, he probably finds himself without allies and may not get out of the mid-card there.

God damn, a Bret vs. Rock feud could have been tremendous.
Good point about Shawn. I don't doubt that Shawn had back problems, but I also suspect that he didn't want to play second fiddle to Austin. His ego would not have been able to handle it. Going to WCW also wouldn't have been an option because Bret might have legitimately murdered him. I could be wrong here but I highly suspect that this may have been the case.
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:05 PM   #58
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Halloween Havoc 98: Hogan/Warrior II doesn’t happen and DDP goes over Goldberg. DDP was so fucking over in 1997-1998 and WCW didn’t put the strap on him until fucking April 1999.
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:28 PM   #59
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Halloween Havoc 98: Hogan/Warrior II doesn’t happen and DDP goes over Goldberg. DDP was so fucking over in 1997-1998 and WCW didn’t put the strap on him until fucking April 1999.
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:52 PM   #60
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Language, Mr Steele.
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:52 PM   #61
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Booker T should of went over HHH at WM 19
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Old 05-31-2019, 02:59 PM   #62
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Watch your fucking mouth, James Steele
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Old 05-31-2019, 03:10 PM   #63
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When did TPWW become so soft.
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Old 05-31-2019, 03:53 PM   #64
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To be fair, everything is soft if you compare it to the way your penis gets when you think about Triple H.
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:30 PM   #65
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I would have put Luke Harper over AJ Styles due to interference from Shane. Then Orton does his "I changed my mind lol" bit. Make Orton vs. Wyatt vs Harper (the WYATT FAMILY EXPLODES!) the Smackdown Title Match and you still get your nonsensical Shane vs AJ match.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:29 PM   #66
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Steele! how nice of you to grace us with your presence. I agree with DDP getting the title sooner.
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Old 06-02-2019, 09:28 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
To be fair, everything is soft if you compare it to the way your penis gets when you think about Triple H.
Could cut fucking diamonds.


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Originally Posted by Gustavo Fring View Post
Steele! how nice of you to grace us with your presence. I agree with DDP getting the title sooner.
Bonjour. Another thought was you have DDP come so close to beating Goldberg at Havoc and coming short like he did. Only, he goes on to win WW3 battle royal and he finally beats Goldberg and wins the World Title at Starrcade 98. If they didn’t hotshot the belt onto Goldberg in July 98, they could have done so much more. Hogan crowns DDP as World Champ at Bash at the Beach and keep building Goldberg up to where you do DDP/Goldberg at Starrcade and it’s a Hogan/Warrior babyface vibe to it.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:36 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Conspiracy Victim Vito View Post
To be fair, everything is soft if you compare it to the way your penis gets when you think about Triple H.


Would it be possible to please not use that kind of language? It's 2019 and I think we are all past the point of discriminating against someone due to their sexual orientation.
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:21 PM   #69
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lol
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:31 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi View Post
Would it be possible to please not use that kind of language? It's 2019 and I think we are all past the point of discriminating against someone due to their sexual orientation.
I said nothing discriminatory, you silly guido.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:50 PM   #71
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The sheer rigidity of my penis when Triple H is on TV is almost super-human.
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Old 06-07-2019, 08:29 AM   #72
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Wendi Richter retaining over "Spider Lady" Moolah in the Original Screwjob. (Let's say for arguments sake that she stops demanding more pay and actually signs on the dotted line of a contract offer somewhere between what she and Vince want, allowing her to stay on with the company. The match still happens, just without Moolah in a more obvious disguise than "Mr. America".) Richter becomes a megastar and ignites a real women's evolution some 30 years before reality, and the Golden Age of the WWF women's division begins.
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Old 06-07-2019, 10:16 AM   #73
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Trish Stratus is the only one that ever mattered
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Old 06-07-2019, 01:45 PM   #74
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Anyone mention Booker T over HHH at Mania 19? Feel like that was a huge blunder as WWE didn't really have a super over babyface on Raw for fans to get behind
Booker was perfect. He was over, great music/entrance, good in the ring and on the mic, and there was clearly an opening.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:55 PM   #75
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Christian never loses the world title to Randy Orton and is still champion to this day
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:50 PM   #76
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Wendi Richter retaining over "Spider Lady" Moolah in the Original Screwjob. (Let's say for arguments sake that she stops demanding more pay and actually signs on the dotted line of a contract offer somewhere between what she and Vince want, allowing her to stay on with the company. The match still happens, just without Moolah in a more obvious disguise than "Mr. America".) Richter becomes a megastar and ignites a real women's evolution some 30 years before reality, and the Golden Age of the WWF women's division begins.
What is the “original screw job?”
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:03 PM   #77
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Ask yer mother
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:17 PM   #78
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Thinking about DDP beating Goldberg. Hmm. I'm not a big DDP fan, and he shat the bed as a main eventer. But going back to 1998 and having him be the one to beat Goldberg is...interesting. He certainly was over, and if he proved he could beat Goldberg if he got that Diamond Cutter out of nowhere, it could have created an interesting dynamic between the two.

My gut tells me that even thinking about beating Goldberg in 1998 is stupid. But man, maybe that's just because my mind is too focused on what actually did and didn't happen? If DDP had beat Goldberg, maybe it would have been the biggest talking point at my school and DDP would be one of the hugest deals ever? Who knows?

Still, I think WCW was too fucked to escape its fate.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:35 PM   #79
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Taker-Lesnar at Mania 30.

Not only was the match itself not good due to Taker getting hurt, WWE's handling of the streak killing rub was pretty terrible and capped off with Taker being the first guy to beat Lesnar clean. Cena and Rollins beat Lesnar beforehand but those were via DQ and Reigns getting pinned.

Taker beating Lesnar wouldn't have been ideal either since Lesnar was still in the midst of rebuilding his beast aura damaged by the Triple H feud the year before. Taker keeping his Mania streak intact would be the most important thing though.

WWE would have been better off not having that match at all and save Taker's streak till the Reigns match a few years later.
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:59 PM   #80
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Quote:
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What is the “original screw job?”
Pretty well summed up in parentheses. Richter kept demanding more and more money from Vince and wouldn't sign a new contract unless she got it. Therefore, as her contract was expiring and she was women's champion, he had Moolah dress up in a ridiculous Spider outfit with a mask in a match with Richter for the title. Richter was pinned; however despite clearly kicking out the ref continued and counted 3, and Moolah was declared the new women's champion.
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