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Old 03-27-2016, 01:18 AM   #1121
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He could've taken out KG Beast another way. And let's be honest here, there's no blowing up loophole. He blew those mooks the fuck up, no if, ands or buts. And he killed to cars worth of people.

That being said, I loved Affleck and he's definitely "best Batman" potential but he needs a solo film with a better story and characterization.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:23 AM   #1122
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Also, Kalyx did a great job of bullet pointing all the issues of this film, which lead me to remember that they pushed this film back damn near a year and still swung and missed. Amazing.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:38 AM   #1123
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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post

I also laughed at Snyder continually pointing out that the areas were abandoned/empty at the final battle, though. Although, the news was all "Thankfully downtown is mostly empty because the workday is over"...... I don't think Snyder knows how downtown areas work in major cities.... there would still be tons of people.

Also found it "weird" how Gotham City is right across the bay from Metropolis. Seems like two cities that were that close, would pretty much have the same "feel" to them, and one would not be a vile cesspool of crime and corruption.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:42 AM   #1124
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I honestly couldn't tell the difference between one city from the other. They did a shit job of establishing anything remotely unique about each city. Establishing shots would've done wonders in that department but apparently they were not found to be useful and instead were let out of the film.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:14 AM   #1125
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Misc:

- No way in hell in a let's split scenario would Superman go after Luthor instead of immediately going for his mother. Doomsday wasn't in anybody's mind so why wouldn't Bats go beat up the nerd guy while Superman tosses out the thugs? Cool beat down tho.
- Batman doesn't brand the worst person on the planet. He brands mooks.
- Clark; give the spear to woman who looks like she can throw it expertly and wouldn't have any ill effect holding it.
- More Amy Adams in a tub please. Add Diana.
- Jon Kent giving advice (really Clark imagining what he'd say) was a good kind of nonsensical.
- I honestly never noticed Bruce and Clark's mothers had the same name. I checked and yes they did.
- Da fuck happened to Wayne Manor? Anything? No? Okay we'll roll with it. I guess.
- Perry is having so much fun pretending he doesn't know Clark is Superman. And also pretending people rather read sports than about Batman.
- Oh... Bruce, you don't seem to object to the hot metahuman the way you do the dude who saved the world.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:22 AM   #1126
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Nerd nitpick:

- In the big Batman v Superman showdown, I can understand Superman getting caught by the Kryptonite gas bomb once.... but the second time he pretty much just stood there and let it happen. I get that he didn't really want to be fighting Batman at all, but he could have easily just seen/heard Batman loading the gun and just grabbed/smashed it at super speed.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:25 AM   #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD View Post
- I honestly never noticed Bruce and Clark's mothers had the same name. I checked and yes they did.
For some reason I had never put two and two together before this movie.... which you would think I would, because it is quite obvious now that it has been pointed out.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:26 AM   #1128
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lol was going to bring up the whole "just give the spear to diana" thing.

Also, am I missing something, or did the news report clearing superman immediately after the bombing make the whole scene pointless? Like when it happened, I was like "oh shit, so this is what is going to spur batman to take him down!" 2 seconds later "well shit"

But then Batman tries to kill him anyway because reasons.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:27 AM   #1129
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The more I talk and think about the movie, the less I like it.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:28 AM   #1130
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Well the thing with the bombing was it was still "Superman's fault" in that he was "the reason"/"the target".

And yeah, I for sure thought the spear was gonna go to Diana.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:39 AM   #1131
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Yeah, but it wasn't like it really changed anything. At least not noticably. Plenty of people hated him before that.
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:06 AM   #1132
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People are wayyyyyy too harsh on DC. I say that as someone who likes both Marvel and DC. But it's like people have very, very narrow versions of characters in their mind when it comes to DC on film and no matter what DC does people will complain online. They seem to get a pass for tv series and animated films, but live-action for some reason people get real wacky about.


This movie felt like a comic book to me . I could picture it as a 8 issue mini-series 'event' series. First time a comic book film has come across that way to me. Every superhero in every superhero film has let characters die before, including Batman in the 1989 Batman film. Don't the Avengers members try to kill their adversary in each film (groups and solo films)? If Batman sometimes kills the bad guys/uses a gun, it doesn't bother me. It's unrealistic to expect the character not to change over time. He used a gun in the comics in his early days (among other fatalities for bad guys) and occasionally has used one in recent time (Shooting Darkseid in Final Crisis for example). People go overboard w/ the DC hate sometimes, it's really silly (IMO).
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:25 AM   #1133
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If it means anything, I liked Man of Steel.
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:52 AM   #1134
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I don't approach this as a Marvel or DC guy, and I liked the movie, there's just general gaffs in the story telling that goes beyond characters doing things they wouldn't do.

- Bruce uses guns. His classic aversion to guns was his response to his parents getting killed by a gun. Now; we can reason that this Batman was reborn after losing a Robin and that changed him, but we never explore that. For all we know he always fired at explosive barrels and has a huge kill count, but then his issues with Superman make him a hypocrite. The only guy Superman killed directly was an evil krytonian who'd kill us all. Bruce, for all his brutality, is on record as letting each member of the Suicide Squad live plus Joker.

This Bruce has glaring inconsistencies.

- We spoke about this a year or so ago and it came to pass - the JL stuff was and rushed. That's not saying Marvel is better, it just seemed rushed in general.

- Batman can't possibly be so angry that he never opts to just talk to Superman and ask him to leave or just get to know him.

- Who was that chick in Bruce's bed? Zack knew he wasn't actually a playboy, right?

- How do you NOT do the 'Remember who beat you' line? This Batman is the biggest shit talking version we seen on screen and he doesn't say it.

I can go all day but only because I wanted a movie where Batman meets/fights Superman to be Avengers amazing. But it's just Iron Man 2 good. For similar reasons even.
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Old 03-27-2016, 01:17 PM   #1135
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Agree with Siik, thought it was a great comic book movie. Used a lot from the Dark Knight Returns and even had some exact scenes from it. The more I think k and talk about the movie the more I like it. I think they did great with Batman and loved his character development. Don't think a lot of you understood the story they told with Batman, he was struggling at the beginning with becoming that monster that kills and It's foreshadowed through his nightmare of what he may become. At the end through Superman he realizes he was about to far and sees the human side of Superman. Superman giving the spear to Wonder Women wouldn't have worked as Superman sacrifices himself for mankind which is why the world like Superman again. Just seems like to me people made their minds up that this was going to suck and that just them they can nitpick. I though it was a great comic book movie that followed it source material pretty close.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:18 PM   #1136
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Forgot about this part, but at the beginning when they have Bruce Wayne running the streets during Man of Steel's climax, there is an old man in the Wayne building and Bruce sounds like he is yelling "DAD" as he runs towards the building/him. Is he actually yelling "DAD", or was it "DAN" or something like that? Was that old man Bruce's father, who survived the shooting, but Bruce became Batman anyways, and then his dad died in the Man of Steel battle?
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:21 PM   #1137
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I think it was "Jack"
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Old 03-27-2016, 03:43 PM   #1138
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He said Jack. And all the comic book referencing and end credits ass kissing doesn't skew the fact that this ended up being a poorly cut, constructed and executed story will a billion questions unanswered due to all the shit that was going down.

Bruce not trying to vet Superman at all is odd. I can understand him trying to prepare for battle under the premise of what if but he's hell bent on a killing a guy that really hasn't done anything wrong. Even a jaded Batman would know everything he could about his enemies.

This version of Batman was very short sided.
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Old 03-27-2016, 03:48 PM   #1139
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Because if there's even a 1 percent chance that he can turn bad he has to take it as a 100 percent certainty
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Old 03-27-2016, 03:57 PM   #1140
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Short sided? I just don't see it. It was an excellent Batman/Bruce Wayne combo and told a great story.
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:03 PM   #1141
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How is Batman automatically labeling Superman a threat in need of being destroyed without finding out anything about him, at all, a great Batman/Bruce Wayne combo? When has Batman ever jumped to such a blind and uninformed conclusion that made zero sense given Supes hadn't even done anything wrong to that point?

It would've made more sense if he went after Supes AFTER he had the knightmare. That would've made more sense.
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:23 PM   #1142
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What is the deal with Batman's dreams anyhow... felt like he was Wesley Dodds or something....

Though I guess Superman got in on the daydreaming/hallucinating too when he had that conversation with his father.
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:29 PM   #1143
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I mean Superman was an alien that had just been responsible for an alien invasion. Batman being Batman had to do what he does and investigate. Don't see any problem with Batman going after Superman. Add to the point that Superman was being setup makes even more sense.
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:39 PM   #1144
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Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
What is the deal with Batman's dreams anyhow... felt like he was Wesley Dodds or something....

Though I guess Superman got in on the daydreaming/hallucinating to when he had that conversation with his father.
I think Batmans dreams were foreshadowing future events. In the Batman gun dream its foreshadowing Darkseid and Apokolisp. The Flash dream was pretty cool and not sure what it means but I bet it gets revisited.
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:49 PM   #1145
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I know it was foreshadowing future events.... that's why I said it seemed like he was Wesley Dodds or something.... Far as I know Batman never had vaguely prophetic dreams...

Maybe they will tie the upcoming Sandman movie into the DC Movie Universe and that is why Joseph Gordon-Levitt left-it....
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Old 03-27-2016, 06:09 PM   #1146
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What exactly did he investigate? It sure as shit wasn't superman as he didn't know jack shit about him.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:25 PM   #1147
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The dreams were DC's awkwardly shoehorning in a bunch of foreshawdowing in a desperate attempt at catching up to marvel's CU.

They don't want to slowly build anything, they want Avengers money now.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:30 PM   #1148
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I don't really know what you mean. What did you want him to do? He knew he was alien and how to stop him how much more do you need. Superman is the one that has a problem with Batman and that's what puts Batman in the I need to kill this guy mindset.
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:38 PM   #1149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts HD Edition View Post
The dreams were DC's awkwardly shoehorning in a bunch of foreshawdowing in a desperate attempt at catching up to marvel's CU.

They don't want to slowly build anything, they want Avengers money now.
I don't think they need a slow build. I thought the dreams were great and the only thing that I had a problem with was that it was only Justice League members on the metahuman database. Could have had some villians in there and it would have felt as forced. Other than that I thought it was great.
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:23 PM   #1150
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You said Batman had to investigate and I'm asking what did he investigate about Supes in the movie, exactly? He was more concerned with apprehending the shipment of kryptonite and acquiring Lex's intel than anything else. He didn't investigate Superman at all. Lex knew more about Superman than Bruce did, which is really odd considering Bruce is supposed to the world's greatest detective.

These are one of the why's I mentioned in my review. Other than the city getting thrashed and his employees dying because of the battle with Zod, a battle Zod had more to do with than Supes, Bruce hates Superman and never bothers to further look into. Just jumped to a conclusion on him for no other purpose than to serve the story.
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:25 PM   #1151
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The Justice League stuff didn't anything of merit for the film. They were forced in for no reason other than to get them in there, served no purpose to the plot and even I the dream Barry gave Bruce wrong info, rendering that useless, as if Lois dying was a plotline they ever explored anyways.

The film's just all over the place with a bunch of threads that didn't need to be there, random unnamed JL members included.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:34 PM   #1152
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I just don't see anymore reason that Batman would need to go after Superman. Especially after Superman threatens Batman . I'd say Supermans not the easiest guy to investigate hands oon, but once he found out how to stop him that was his main focus. His looking in to Superman led him to the kryptonite which led him to Luthor. Lex is a super genius so I'm sure he can put some things together and find out their identities. Just don't see what more you want Batman to do.

Like I said if they would have had more than Justice League members in the metahuman database it wouldn't have felt as forced but it did serve a purpose, Batman now knows he has to form a team. Also was told by the Flash in his dream to find them. The info Flash gave Bruce could be for another time as Flash said he'd come back to far.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:44 PM   #1153
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If he's so hard to investigate how did Luthor, who's not anywhere near the level of a detective as Batman, find out Clark's true identity, that he dates Lois and that Martha Kent is his mom? See how this makes no sense?

None of it adds up. The Justice League references added nothing to the film. Nothing. Didn't advance the plot. Didn't give the characters anything to do, and what Flash did tell Bruce ended up being moot as it was wrong anyhow. They never followed up on any of it.

Batman knows he has to form a team why? He only knew that after Luthor told him he rang a bell. Beyond that he had no pre-existing reason to think rounding up all these meta humans was a good idea or even an idea at all.

I'd like Batman to act logically and know who and what exactly he's up against. To be informed on all angles and have the clear strategic advantage. He doesn't have that here, as he knows jack shit about Superman and didn't investigate him, just investigated how to stop him. Superman is supposedly this big threat but outside of collateral damage in a fight Superman didn't want or start, he's given Bruce zero reasons to think he'd go rogue, and Bruce being completely blinded to the point of not even listening to Clark was just a poor way to present what is supposed to be the human peak of physical and mental skill.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:55 PM   #1154
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I wanna put it out there that I'm not hating in anyone who liked or loved the movie. I enjoyed it, even though I've ripped it since I've seen it, and I very much liked Affleck. I'm just perplexed at how anyone could miss all these glaring holes presented.
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:10 PM   #1155
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Quote:
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If he's so hard to investigate how did Luthor, who's not anywhere near the level of a detective as Batman, find out Clark's true identity, that he dates Lois and that Martha Kent is his mom? See how this makes no sense?
Well, in Man of Steel Lois proved that one could seemingly quite easily just follow a pattern of "strange events" all the way back to Smallville and find out from IHOP Manager Pete Ross.
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:11 PM   #1156
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I didn't go into the movie looking for holes. I can get what your saying but I just don't see what more Batman needed to do. Got to remember this is also a Batman that has been out of the game for a while and feels threatened by the existence of Superman. Seems like your looking for to many answers in a introduction movie. Batman says he doesn't know why they need a team he just has some feeling.
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:03 PM   #1157
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:43 AM   #1158
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I liked it overall. I'd give it a 7.5/10. A lot of complaints have been fair.

A complaint that's been said a little... They didn't build Batman up enough. I would have loved one Batman story from some character summarizing how badass and awesome he is. Also wasn't enough focus on Gotham and what tha state of that city is.

Also Batman did drop some bodies, which Is fine with me, because that's what Frank Milller's Batman does.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:43 AM   #1159
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Simple Fan you're willfully ignoring filmic issues to the point where you would be doing no favors to DC/WB if they asked you what you thought.

I want the DCCU to work. I want it awesome. And it can do that without emulating MCU's tone. But we have to honestly assess what they did so far, two movies in, so they know how to improve.

We're not looking for holes they're chasing us.
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Old 03-28-2016, 01:35 AM   #1160
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Yeah that's a pretty dumb statement. I didn't go in looking for holes. They found me. You ask what more Batman needed to do. Well, other than finding out about kryptonite he didn't do anything. He was literally ignorant as fuck about Superman. Regardless if it's an introduction movie it still begs the question why. How did Lois Lane figure all this shit out while Batman had two years and knew nothing?

And there was no point in the film that suggested he was out of the game. He didn't seem even semi retired at any point.

If he felt so threatened why didn't he find out everything there is to know about him? That makes no sense.

You liked the movie. Great. Stop pretending there weren't glaring issues. The film was massacred by critics for a reason and logical character motivation was a big one.
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