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10-07-2020, 02:01 PM | #1 |
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in the grand scheme of things, did Shawn Michaels matter?
In the wrestling world he is obviously a name, one of the "greats".
Outside of fans, do common people even know who Shawn Michaels is? He certainly didn't add to the "realism" of wrestling. If he was erased from wrestling history, would it change all that much ? Come down to my dungeon..eh...I'll stretch the feck out you Only legends know..ehhh.. |
10-07-2020, 02:40 PM | #2 |
Higher. Further. Faster.
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I'm not sure I understand the question. You're suggesting that he only mattered to the world of wrestling but then posit that things wouldn't have changed all that much if he hadn't existed in the world of wrestling. Am I misunderstanding you?
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10-07-2020, 03:00 PM | #3 |
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10-07-2020, 02:48 PM | #4 |
Hey Mister!
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I’m not sure anyone in wrestling has ever been as big of a cunt as HBK was in the 90’s and I think the landscape of the WWF in that era would be very different without his bullshit nonsense.
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10-07-2020, 03:02 PM | #5 |
Higher. Further. Faster.
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Oh, man. Is this going to devolve into another 'KLIQ WUZ DA GRTST!!! NWO N DX DREW ALL DA MONEEZ!!! vs. 'The Kliq only looked out for themselves' argument? In God damn 2020 of all years?!?
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10-08-2020, 07:33 PM | #6 |
It's all Bullshit
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10-07-2020, 02:59 PM | #7 |
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HBK also left wrestling right as it was about explode and came back after the boom
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10-07-2020, 03:06 PM | #8 |
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Well it's not like Bret ever did
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10-07-2020, 03:18 PM | #9 |
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To the people outside of wrestling, no, Shawn Michaels doesn't mean a damned thing.
Inside wrestling you would likely have to be a moron to argue against his value. Questioning his value is fine though because he didn't bring in huge money on his own like Austin or Hogan or Rock did and I'd be hard pressed to believe his PPV buys would stack up against any of theirs. He probably wrestled for bigger crowds when he was in The Rockers than as a single for a long long time. That being said he was better in the ring than Austin, Hogan and Rock by a fair way. Austin wasn't far off when he was healthy but post neckbreak Austin isn't getting close. |
10-07-2020, 03:20 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
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10-07-2020, 03:27 PM | #11 |
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I think Shawn mattered because in my view, he was a huge part of transforming the top guy in wrestling to the post Hogan big character WWF to era, to edgy more adult, Attitude era. Would we still have had Austin and Rock bring that change around? Of course we would, but I think Michaels was sort of a bridge between the two eras.
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10-07-2020, 06:56 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
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10-07-2020, 07:04 PM | #13 |
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10-07-2020, 07:13 PM | #14 |
Hey Mister!
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I dunno about women, but plenty of gay dudes who don’t watch wrestling probably enjoyed that issue.
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10-07-2020, 07:17 PM | #15 |
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10-08-2020, 04:52 PM | #16 |
Tongue my Fartbox
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10-07-2020, 07:42 PM | #17 |
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Absolutely, inside the wrestling world he is a major influence. How many superkicks do you see on every single episode of any wrestling show today?
Between NXT and Dynamite tonight, there will probably be 20 superkicks just tonight. That is because wrestling fans who grew up on Shawn Michaels want to wrestle like Shawn Michaels. Outside of wrestling, non fans have probably heard of DX, even if they don't know Shawn Michaels by name. He certainly was never huge outside of wrestling, but he has done SOME things outside of wrestling like his hunting show or occasional acting. That itself is more than almost every other former wrestler ever. |
10-08-2020, 01:17 PM | #18 |
Feeling Oof-y
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There are very few wrestlers that have penetrated to the point where the general public would know who they are, and even then it’d be a generational thing. I’d wager on Hogan, Taker, Warrior being the ones that 90/100 people would know. Macho, Austin, Flair, and maybe Bret in the next tier. Michaels probably in the tier below that.
But yeah, huge influence within wrestling. There won’t be many modern wrestlers that won’t cite him as an influence. |
10-08-2020, 04:11 PM | #19 |
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The Rock is top tier
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10-08-2020, 04:47 PM | #20 |
Feeling Oof-y
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10-08-2020, 04:13 PM | #21 |
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My dad mentioned Ric Flair recently when I asked my folks if they ever actually watched it when I had it on TV as a kid.
He seemed to like Ric Flair quite a bit, actually. I was extremely impressed by that. It would be like me reeling of car engine info without just by hearing it drive past. |
10-08-2020, 04:49 PM | #22 |
Feeling Oof-y
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Yeah massive oversight by me on that one.
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03-30-2022, 08:16 PM | #23 |
Anger
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Shawn Michaels had a bit of mainstream attention at the time but his name does not ring out today the way Austin, Hogan or even Undertaker to the non wrestling fan. I would even go as far to say Triple H is more known to casual mainstream than Michaels. Don't get me wrong he is recognizable to a lot of his generation of non wrestling fans but I think the majority of younger crowd who does not watch wrestling would say "who?"
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03-31-2022, 06:40 AM | #24 |
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No, wrestling is dead. It doesn’t matter. No wrestler matters.
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03-31-2022, 06:57 AM | #25 |
I am the cheese
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well he out drrew bret so if he didnt matter then bret certainly didnt
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03-31-2022, 09:56 AM | #26 |
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We’ve had a fair bit of debate about “name value” and/or crossover appeal the last few weeks.
I think there’s very few wrestlers that have permeated general popular culture, and for this generation I think Taker and HHH are probably towrads the top of the list, ahead of an Austin. Austin’s run at the top was so short. Taker and to a lesser extent HHH have been billed as big deals for over 20 years, that’s a lot of fans that have come and gone but have seen these guys at the top of the card. You’ve got your Rock’s that had a short run but became a megastar, and Cena’s who had a huge run on top and is breaking into the mainstream, and being the guy that the kids were into means your moms and dads also know who he is. Michaels not being around from 98-2002 is a real hit to him as this was the time that most eyes were on WWE. This is where a lot of “lifers”/“hardcore” fans got their start with wrestling, and where a lot of “casuals” would have been tuned in before drifting away from the product. I also think “didn’t have great impact in the mainstream” =/= “meant nothing in the grand scheme of things”. HBK is massively influential in changing the perception of what a main event star could be, and for all its faults what the “workrate era” looks like today. |
03-31-2022, 09:57 AM | #27 |
Feeling Oof-y
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And now I’ve re-read the whole thread and see I already made those points in 2020
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03-31-2022, 01:49 PM | #28 |
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Austin is definitely ahead of HHH as far as their place in pop culture goes. Short run or not, he’s gotta be top tier.
Andre’s up there too. Like Gertner said, HBK is low 2nd tier/high 3rd. But he’s also the GOAT so... bonus points in the mattering department. |
03-31-2022, 02:11 PM | #29 |
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I was at a pub quiz, maybe like 8-10 years ago with a group of about 7 or 8 people of different ages. There was a picture round with pictures of random celebrities to name and The Undertaker was on it. Not a single other person had any clue who he was or what he was famous for.
I think wresting fans in general overestimate how much any wrestler is known to the general public. I’d say your average Joe who doesn’t watch/hasn’t watched wrestling will only know The Rock and maybe Hulk Hogan. Anyone under the age of say 25 probably doesn’t have a clue who Hogan is either. However those under 25 likely know who John Cena is, but most over that age won’t know him other than from Suicide Squad. I honestly think that’s it. Nobody else commonly known. |
03-31-2022, 03:36 PM | #30 |
quesque fuck?
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Mattered a ton yes.
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03-31-2022, 03:55 PM | #31 |
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It's gotta be the area where you're from because if that happened in my city I would say the vast majority would know who Taker was.
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03-31-2022, 06:01 PM | #32 |
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I had definitely heard of The Undertaker before I was a fan. If you had asked me who Shawn Michaels was, I would have guessed singer or race car driver.
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03-31-2022, 06:03 PM | #33 |
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I didn’t know Bret Hart, but I would have eventually got him from The Simpsons. I think I thought that was a made up wrestler as a kid.
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