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Old 10-21-2019, 04:07 AM   #1
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Is "The Cena Generation" the last new fan base?

Is "The Cena Generation" the last new fan base?

It doesn't seem like wrestling has hooked kids since then -- what do you think?
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:09 AM   #2
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For now. If they somehow suddenly became cool you’d see new fans.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:43 PM   #3
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Just wait, Tim Storm fan base brewing among the youth of major cities rn.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:15 PM   #4
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Yes but in terms of those kids sticking around to become WWE's new core base or long-term fans, the Attitude Era generation is probably the last that managed to do both.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:26 PM   #5
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I think the fundamental flaw WWE has is they haven't tried to make anybody new with long term in mind.

They need to debut somebody at 24-25, build/protect them for 2 years, then follow through when it's time for that person the become a top guy.

It's what they did with Cena.

It's incredible to think that is the dying days of the attitude era, they essentially made their 2 top guys (Cena and Batista) and and got a solid 5 years out of Batista who is older, and about 12 years out of Cena.

Nowadays, there is no looking forward. It's why they have to keep hotshotting legends.

AJ Styles is the last new guy that they have truly pushed as a top level guy consistently, but he was whatsoever 38 when he came to WWE.

They need to pick a handful of young guys and invest in them for the long term.

Akam, Rezar, and Otis are like the only main roster guys under 28. That is an issue.

To truly create a new fanbase, you need a guy young enough to be at the top of the card and booked well for 10+ years, not a guy they kind of push, then bury, then gets over big, then gets buried again because he got over, then push again long after anybody cares.

So to answer your question, yes they probably wont be able to create a new fan base with how they run the company today.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Is "The Cena Generation" the last new fan base?

It doesn't seem like wrestling has hooked kids since then -- what do you think?
Its been 5 minutes. What do you mean "hasnt hooked them since then?"
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Its been 5 minutes. What do you mean "hasnt hooked them since then?"
What do you mean it's been 5 minutes.
The kids who were like 8 when Cena had his reign of terror are like 18-21 now.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Just wait, Tim Storm fan base brewing among the youth of major cities rn.
If u want Tim Storm to hit a DETENTION BREAKER on his opponent gimme a STORM YEAH
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:54 PM   #9
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"1 fall"
"you still got it"
"you deserve it"
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Yawn.
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
What do you mean it's been 5 minutes.
The kids who were like 8 when Cena had his reign of terror are like 18-21 now.
Cena has only been out for 5 seconds. Hogans kids were the same kids that were teens in the 90s. Cena has a new batch of kids that are now teens young adults in some cases but some are still 10 right now.



Theres literally nothing that says that cycle wont repeat itself if the right talent comes along. This is a truly bizzar chicken little scenerio youve concocted and it seems based on literally nothing.
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan X View Post
Just wait, Tim Storm fan base brewing among the youth of major cities rn.
You mean his students? And I don't mean wrestling school students, I mean from the school school he teaches/taught at (don't know if he's retired or still active).
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:52 PM   #12
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Tim Storm is the old dude who can quote Eminem and bring up his 92 year old Mama in the same promo and make it work.
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:53 PM   #13
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For the moment. But I would be interested to see how they would attempt to recapture that demographic if Vince suddenly retired (fat chance, I know) or he passed suddenly and someone like Triple H, for example, took control.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
I think the fundamental flaw WWE has is they haven't tried to make anybody new with long term in mind.

They need to debut somebody at 24-25, build/protect them for 2 years, then follow through when it's time for that person the become a top guy.

It's what they did with Cena.

It's incredible to think that is the dying days of the attitude era, they essentially made their 2 top guys (Cena and Batista) and and got a solid 5 years out of Batista who is older, and about 12 years out of Cena.

Nowadays, there is no looking forward. It's why they have to keep hotshotting legends.

AJ Styles is the last new guy that they have truly pushed as a top level guy consistently, but he was whatsoever 38 when he came to WWE.

They need to pick a handful of young guys and invest in them for the long term.

Akam, Rezar, and Otis are like the only main roster guys under 28. That is an issue.

To truly create a new fanbase, you need a guy young enough to be at the top of the card and booked well for 10+ years, not a guy they kind of push, then bury, then gets over big, then gets buried again because he got over, then push again long after anybody cares.

So to answer your question, yes they probably wont be able to create a new fan base with how they run the company today.
And even your initial point is a rosy view. WWE didn't give a solitary fuck about Cena. Even Vince himself publicly admitted he didn't see "it" initially, even when he was getting over. Pushing him and Randy Orton was an "experiment" because they were kind of in a spot as a company and had a rapid exodus of top-tier names around the same time.

All the other stuff helps, but you don't neccessarily "need" certain things to have a top star. That's a problem WWE already has: they figure this shit is formulaic, repeatable, and predictable, and that anyone can be instantly plugged into success. Look how many YEARS it took for them to FINALLY get the type of reacton they wanted for Roman Reigns - a reaction they could have organically gotten to years ago with a heel turn and a subsequent redemption, mind you - and they were just being stubborn with his push.

You know who else they were stubborn with? Jinder Mahal. And again, a large part of his failure wasn't even his fucking fault. They had spent so much time letting him languish as a comedy fodder jobber and a shithead, then they expected us to buy he goes from jerking curtians to main eventing inside of four weeks? Even Vince Russo would say that's pretty bad fucking storytelling.

They want SO BAD for Baron Corbin to be the next big thing that they blinded themselves to why he's not. At the same time, they could have just MADE Kofi with a legitimizing win over Brock... not a seven second steamrolling loss that killed him quicker than a clean loss did to Samoa Joe. The Fiend (wicked annoying, change the channel heat garnering appearance screeches aside) was something new and exciting... for awhile. But now, it's back to the same shit he's been facing since Husky Harris days: counting lights. He's basically a career jobber, and every time they freshen him up, they have him lose more, so the facelift becomes useless. He could have been a top guy by now, and instead, he has been a waste of a spot through little fault of his own.

Not saying it wouldn't help, but youth in and of itself isn't neccessary to make a new star. They just need to... well... make the goddamn stars that get made and roll with it, and not try to shoehorn someone ad nauseum or suddenly lose interest in someone two weeks into a push.

I will say again that I don't see "it" personally with Keith Lee and Dominic Dijakovic. I still see the same two "bums" I saw in Ring of Honor, except Dijak doesn't look nearly as clumsy anymore, but they are over in NXT. I'm not blind to that fact. They obvously have something. So here is what is likely to happen: they get called up to the main roster, forced into a tag team that initially squshes, but then starts losing to some bullshit team they throw together and hotshot to a tile run, they break up, have one more critically acclaimed feud series, and then fall off the planet inside of six months. No sustained push. No repackage. Just flights around the world to sit in catering until they're needed to job to Roman, because that will still be a thing.

And even if I'm wrong, and they decide to push one of the two more up the card, there is no telling if things are even going perfectly, that one day it will just... stop. Or they get saddled with some stupid gimmick just for "Vince's stamp". Or that one of them will trip and fall and now they become comedy forever and constantly compared ON AIR to Titus O'Neil.

I've lost too much faith in the company to come across the next big thing, and I honestly believe that even if they accidentally fell into finding a good looking, naturally athletic, bodybuilder built, tall, dubiously ethnic, highly charismatic guy who is a natural, fast learner in the ring, that they wouldn't somehow fuck that up by not pushing him, giving him an insurmountably dumbass name and/or otherwise batshit gimmick, or otherwise just not grooming him to be "the guy" because for whatever reason, he's not "the guy" in Vince's eyes, but he's too valuable to let go to AEW - NWA - ROH - TNA - AAA - MLW - NJPW or anywhere else that could gain exposure from that person. So, they'll warehouse him in a contract for a good 5 years so that he can't help any other fed, and he'll be paid enough money not to bitch so much about it, but it wouldn't do him, WWE, nor the business as a whole a lot of good in the long run.
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Old 10-22-2019, 03:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Cena has only been out for 5 seconds. Hogans kids were the same kids that were teens in the 90s. Cena has a new batch of kids that are now teens young adults in some cases but some are still 10 right now.



Theres literally nothing that says that cycle wont repeat itself if the right talent comes along. This is a truly bizzar chicken little scenario youve concocted and it seems based on literally nothing.

Cena hasn't been a focal point consistently for years. Neither have the kids that grew up with him, wearing his shirts and watching WWE.

It's not a Chicken Little scenario Destor, it's realistic one. Wrestling is a niche thing and the niche is tinier than it used to be. Many seem to have a hard time accepting that. I didn't say it was going away -- though I have some concerns about over-saturation -- it will settle at a number at some point, the base of wrestling fans and casual viewers. From there who knows.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:20 AM   #16
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I do think that people can see the strings a lot more clearly. The Reigns pushed wore on people REALLY fast because they have the Cena push to compare it to.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:35 AM   #17
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Other names that spring to mind that they had chances to make something special out of are Cesaro and Shinsuke Nakamura.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:24 AM   #18
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They have bungled Finn Balor and Ricochet.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:57 AM   #19
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There are so many problems with WWE.
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Old 10-22-2019, 08:29 AM   #20
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It all boils down to a couple of core issues: everything is overproduced and nothing seems organic, but if something does happen organically they generally stifle it instead of building off of it. There is a major lack of grit for a product that is supposed to be based around pre-scripted violence.
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Old 10-22-2019, 08:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Cena hasn't been a focal point consistently for years. Neither have the kids that grew up with him, wearing his shirts and watching WWE.

It's not a Chicken Little scenario Destor, it's realistic one. Wrestling is a niche thing and the niche is tinier than it used to be. Many seem to have a hard time accepting that. I didn't say it was going away -- though I have some concerns about over-saturation -- it will settle at a number at some point, the base of wrestling fans and casual viewers. From there who knows.
Hogan had been gone for decades before cena.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:11 AM   #22
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Yes and kids liked Rock and Austin before the Cena era

Not sure why you can't be realistic that WWE and wrestling aren't that popular with kids and nothing seems to indicate that will change in the near future.

It is weird to argue that wrestling is anything but niche in an era where multiple wrestling feds are competing for the same core of fans.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:16 AM   #23
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small anecdotal evidence, but my brother-in-law is a teacher and says he never hears any kids talking about wrestling and hasn't in years.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
It all boils down to a couple of core issues: everything is overproduced and nothing seems organic, but if something does happen organically they generally stifle it instead of building off of it. There is a major lack of grit for a product that is supposed to be based around pre-scripted violence.
It's so true. Even Becky, after having the bloody face but still standing claiming its her show, the best thing that happened in WWE in about 5 years, WWE tried to shut it down almost instantly.

The next night they had her give the chance to fight Ronda at Survivor Series, after her whole initial momentum started when she called bullshit on Charlotte being given every opportunity.

Go back and watch that clip, the fans wanted Asuka, and Becky's character should have picked anybody but Charlotte.

Instead of JUST doing what is logical and going with the hot hand, they have to overbook everything.

That is just talking about on air stuff. How about them killing characters for petty shit. Braun Strowman was pretty red hot, but he showed up at the arena 5 hours before the show starts instead of 7 hours like protocol says.

Well WWE can't have that, so instead let's bury the guy to teach him a lesson, who cares about the millions of dollars they could make, the new fans they could have made, etc.

It is absolutely an unfathomable decision for a publicly traded company to make.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
It all boils down to a couple of core issues: everything is overproduced and nothing seems organic, but if something does happen organically they generally stifle it instead of building off of it. There is a major lack of grit for a product that is supposed to be based around pre-scripted violence.
This is part of it. I completely agree with that. A big reason behind that is Vince McMahon permeating through everything. He needs to go.

They've also been adverse to making stars outside the Vince vision. People mentioned Cesaro and and Shinsuke Nakamura. It's hard to imagine them being stars in Vince McMahon's WWE, but that's exactly the issue. Sure, Cesaro isn't the most captivating on-air promo in the world, but his booking in 2014 (it's been over four years, wow) didn't help matters. Losing to Sheamus? Being an extra in Money in the Bank? You're trying to build a world-beater, let him beat the world. Nakamura's strengths were never played to. He adapted well to "sports entertainment," but he was never allowed to bring his own DNA in, because you've got to fit the circus. The promotion no longer builds itself around what it has.

And people have lost faith. I'm not the biggest fan of the Becky or Kofi pushes, but even if you adored them both as performers, what is your first instinct? "They're gonna fuck this up." So, as a result, you don't tune in, and they don't gain any real traction. They've conditioned even their more sincere attempts to fail.

And now you've got so many people across the board. You've almost got a shadow roster of guys with amazing potential that are being largely neglected. Cesaro and Luke Harper weren't drafted. Chad Gable wasn't drafted on the night he was supposed to be. It's not just that fans get annoyed by this, but it dislocates the product from itself, like when Jinder Mahal was WWE Champion and Owens and Styles were slumming it in the mid-card. It doesn't "feel right" when you've got a roster that full and too much collecting dust. They'd be better off just letting go of those people and having something a lot more streamlined.

Because they are trying to push too many people through, in a sense. It feels like they aren't really trying with anybody, but you can't push eight different undefeated future mega-stars at once. You only need one star, but they've created an environment where they need two, so you need to create two stars, so you're splitting attention at least as much those ways.

This company is so fucking ludicrious. I was thinking the other day that the best thing that can happen is that Triple H, Stephanie McMahon, Shane McMahon, Paul Heyman, Michael Cole, Michael Hayes, Road Dogg, Ryan Ward and whoever else has shares or stakes in this company need to go to Vince and say "It's time." Either Vince steps back and lets certain things be run differently and autonomously from his vision, or they're going to start selling stock and advising investors that they do the same, because they've lost faith in him. They've got to a hold a blowtorch to this guy to get him out. But that won't happen, because no one that company is really "in touch" nor do they have the balls. They also probably like their dividends too much, and that isn't going down while Vince is getting money from the networks and despots.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:50 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Yes and kids liked Rock and Austin before the Cena era

Not sure why you can't be realistic that WWE and wrestling aren't that popular with kids and nothing seems to indicate that will change in the near future.

It is weird to argue that wrestling is anything but niche in an era where multiple wrestling feds are competing for the same core of fans.
Im not contesting their popularity. Im contesting your ridiculous assurtion that because weve gone half a second without a kid draw that the world is ending and it will never happen again.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:04 PM   #27
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How many people on these boards have kids? Serious. I imagine most die hard wrestling fans don't have children.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:09 PM   #28
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How many people on these boards have kids? Serious. I imagine most die hard wrestling fans don't have children.
I mean I don't have kids yet -- but I'm getting married. There are others who have kids, though.
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:06 PM   #29
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Im not contesting their popularity. Im contesting your ridiculous assurtion that because weve gone half a second without a kid draw that the world is ending and it will never happen again.
I think it's somewhere betwen what you two are saying though. You're obviously exaggerating to make a point, but Cena has been out of the loop since basically 2016 in a promotion that does still largely want to market themselves towards children.

They've tried to replace Cena, rather obviously, with Roman Reigns, and it just hasn't worked.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:15 AM   #30
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I mean, it must be frustrating for him, probably expecting to be the new company poster boy once Cena left, only to have so many false starts. Then the poor guy has to take time off because of leukemia, comes back months later to get probably the loudest pop from a WWE crowd in who knows how long, but they still haven't even seemingly tried to push him to WWE Champion status.

It really is completely befuddling why this company refuses (outside of what I've already mentioned) to create new superstars to lead them for the next at least 5-10 years, probably more. Maybe moreso as to why I still keep the hopelessly eternal optimist viewpoint with regard to the product when it's obvious that its stagnant and seemingly very slowly dying.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Is "The Cena Generation" the last new fan base?

It doesn't seem like wrestling has hooked kids since then -- what do you think?
It's odd cause I see kids at indie shows and around town in Rollins or Roman shirts often.

Might just be my location. But appears down here kids still watch WWE. Buddy went to the Jackson MS house show this year. "It was all old people and little kids".

Then he sent me a pic of Emerson Shitmore's twin. Was 400+lbs bad hair and supposedly smelled like 4 month old cabbage. Sounds like how Merc described Emerson smelling at that one WM.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
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How many people on these boards have kids? Serious. I imagine most die hard wrestling fans don't have children.
I got 2. One is grown and will be 30 next year. The other is 14.
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Old 10-27-2019, 12:59 AM   #33
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Other names that spring to mind that they had chances to make something special out of are Cesaro and Shinsuke Nakamura.
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They have bungled Finn Balor and Ricochet.
The list is far deeper and the timeframe is far longer.

Shinsuke is a special case. On one hand, he's kinda like Owen Hart, in that he is good enough to be considered one of the best ever if he took it more seriously... but he apparently doesn't give a shit as long as he makes his money and can go surfing, he's happy. Good for him personally.

On the other, there is zero reason why he couldn't have been top tier and possibly helped carry the company. He has that intangible charisma. He has that "it" factor in spades. Even with his imperfect English promos, he wasn't getting drowned in "WHAT?" chants or other bullshit; he had the crowd quiet down to understand and absorb what the fuck he was saying, and got huge pops after. People who knew who he was from NJPW could turn to the uninitiated and be like "Hey, watch THIS shit... it's about to be an awesome match!" And the company did fuck all with it.

They have a deep roster full of talent with their own strengths that they aren't allowed to play to or show off. Everyone is background and filler and folks they just want to hold under contract so that they can't go elsewhere and generate any buzz. They ironically call people they don't want to push "flavor of the month" no matter how much they might get over, but will actually pick their own "flavor" to try to beat people over the head with. They break gimmicks with promise. They bury workhorses under piles of bullshit. And like so many of us have repeated to ourselves, they have made us lose faith.

It is hard to keep faith when you know that anyone called up from NXT will eventually mean nothing no matter how much they're cultivated and pushed and supported in Orlando. I keep thinking to the Velveteen Dream "Call Me Up Vince" tights, and hope to any god that will listen that McMahon doesn't take him up on that. He's flourishing in NXT, and main roster will inevitably fuck that all the way up in short order.
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:53 AM   #34
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WWE has not made a truly new star since The Shield. They were obviously in love with Roman from day one, but they booked and protected all 3 of those guys for 2+ years until they split.

They debuted in 2012. They have not purposely made a single new star since then. Yes there was Daniel Bryan, but that was not purposely done.

The only other guy who is in the argument would be K.O. But even K.O. hasn't been booked consistently, just better then most.
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:16 AM   #35
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Which K.O.?

That's only half sarcasm. They seem to be in love with those initials in NXT as much as they love giving someone the name Bronson. Hero looked like he was going to be pushed like a monster and jumped to the main roster until he got a little doughy around the middle and they acted like that was a huge sin, and they released him. Then he went full fat boy, and they hired him back because... reasons.
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:16 PM   #36
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Not sure what (if anything) wrestling can do to get kids interest

Maybe 'more flips' and cool gymnastic like moves are the best bet...the future might need to be flips?
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:23 PM   #37
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There are so many problems with WWE.
Except thereís not, because theyíre still making boatloads of profits, which is all that really matters to the higher ups in the company.

Also, we know from multiple accounts that WWE actively stifles talent thatís getting too hot because they donít want any more of their top stars becoming bigger than WWE the way they have in the past.
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:00 PM   #38
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Except thereís not, because theyíre still making boatloads of profits, which is all that really matters to the higher ups in the company.

Also, we know from multiple accounts that WWE actively stifles talent thatís getting too hot because they donít want any more of their top stars becoming bigger than WWE the way they have in the past.
True, but in terms of content, I mean. The things that prevent it from engaging the viewer. In terms of making money, yeah, they're fucking unstoppable unless scandal breaks out or whatever.
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:08 PM   #39
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Not sure what (if anything) wrestling can do to get kids interest

Maybe 'more flips' and cool gymnastic like moves are the best bet...the future might need to be flips?
Jesus Christ, no.

Twitter people are so self-important. Even the way this question is phrased: "the last new fan base?" It's a fucking locked and weird question, because it's got to be phrased in a way that centers around you and now in such a definitive way. Didn't you also share that fucking ridiculous "wrestling was better because you were a kid" video? The one that could be dismissed with 5 seconds of actual thinking?

Kids are not as fucking stupid as many of the "influencers" you share. They're able to seek out good content if it exists. The problem is -- it doesn't. Not in wrestling. There's no fucking meat on the stick anywhere. What reward do they get from investing in it? The secret isn't to write "Flips" on a decrepit van left out in a carpark somewhere.
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Old 10-10-2020, 07:05 PM   #40
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xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)xrodmuc316 got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
Not sure what (if anything) wrestling can do to get kids interest

Maybe 'more flips' and cool gymnastic like moves are the best bet...the future might need to be flips?
Honestly, I think they need to go the other way. They need people that look the part. Even with how checkered a past as Lars Sullivan has, that dude looks like a 1980's heel wrestler.

Is he going to move the needle with us jaded decades long fans, probably not one bit. But that's the kind of thing that can build a new fanbase.

A scary looking unstoppable monster eventually gets taken down by a good guy the kids can get into.

Adam Cole on the other hand, a bad guy with a faction, we established fans can see workrate and all that and appreciate his work, but a 6 year old kid seeing wrestling for the first time isn't getting hooked on Adam Cole vs Johnny Gargano.
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