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Old 05-19-2019, 02:17 AM   #1121
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I already have someone I am probably doing w/ this -- but if anyone is curious -- up to two different devices can stream a BR Live live event at once per their site.

So if any of y'all wanna pay $25 just team up to stream:

https://support.live.bleacherreport....r/category/101
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:46 AM   #1122
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Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
With all due respect to Pac, compared to Moxley in terms of star power, there is no comparison whatsoever.

It's part of the reason I have a hard time believing he will go to AEW, because why would he go just to put over the AEW core? It's not for the money, and unless he is gonna be the top guy, he is gonna be just as unhappy with his booking there, and there he won't have his wife.

As far as Pac, after thinking about it more, I don't blame him at all. If AEW is supposed to be all about wins mattering, why would anybody want to do jobs? I mean Goldust will for his brother, but other than that you are gonna get a bunch of Rybacks who won't job unless they are getting just as much money as the winners so as not to devalue their worth by taking losses.

Pac is a bigger star than Page, so why should he take a loss?

This is what happens when you give talent the option of calling their own shot, you get guys who will take advantage of that for their own benefit.
I agree that there is no comparison to general audiences, or to whatever casual WWE audience there is, but we're talking about a hardcore wrestling crowd. The traditional "he's a star"/"he's not a star" metrics are kind of null and void with this audience at this point in time. PAC is someone that they should build as a star for whatever audience they hopefully grow.

It's not always about winning and losing when it comes to happiness. Moxley can make good money with AEW and probably get to cut his own promos and have a say over the direction of his own gimmick. And he probably will be treated as one of their biggest stars early out the gate. I don't have problems seeing him there at all.

I think you might be taking the wins and losses thing a bit too seriously. But then again, I think AEW might be doing that too. I also don't think it's a problem giving talent more autonomy over their creative direction. Wrestling has needed that back for a long time.

This is just bad planning and perhaps a bad overarching philosophy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik View Post
I don't think this is that big of a deal tbh

It's unfortunate PAC backed out - but until the show airs and I see a product I am not going to judge AEW in a negative light. And even then, if the first show, or couple shows have some tough bits I am going to chalk it up to growing pains.


I do agree w/ the pricing being too high but I am sure I will spend the $ regardless.
It's really cool you are willing to cut them that slack and spend that money. You're not wrong for doing so. It's just not a guarantee that other people will be as patient and forgiving as you. I'm not sure if I'm willing to pay even less than 50% of what you yanks are paying for this show now, and I've been highly positive about them. $50 is just way out of the question for me. Nope, not happening.

I accept that they are going to have growing pains, and if this were an injury or some sort of wanky contract thing that has blind-sided them, I'd be more forgiving. But if this is just them being dumb fucks and having an impossible planned finish, then I chalk that up to stupidity as much as I would WWE.

I do hope fans are more patient with them than they are WWE. Especially early days. But they're not entitled to that, nor guaranteed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Smeat View Post
Rumor going around the net hints that it wasn't just "creative issues" for PAC's removal from Double or Nothing and more changes might be on the way for the event's card.

Supposedly AEW got hit with similar visa-related issues that plagued NJPW's recent US shows and all due to how strict the US government has become under President Trump for allowing foreign wrestlers to work in the country.

Also seems AEW's partnership with China's OWE is once again not as strong as previously assumed since OWE recently partnered with Canadian based SMASH and might be considering plans for their talent to work in Canada instead of the US.
I would be a bit more forgiving if there were visa issues, because that's administrative legal stuff way out of their hands. The OWE thing is weird, because I don't know why they would choose a small-time Canadian promotion over something going to get TNT exposure.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:48 AM   #1123
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They need to announce something pretty big for Hangman Page, and they should make an angle out of the visa thing, with Page suggesting that PAC didn't file the right paperwork to get in the ring with him. There needs to be some sort of thread to this so there's the implication it's going somewhere.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:53 AM   #1124
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And clearly Trrump knew AEW was working with China so hes like, "fuck them they can't work with China if China won't work with me on Tariffs" and is trying to wreck their promotion because Vince McMahon paid him off to do it. Someone call The democrats to launch a conspiracy hearing in Congress
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:05 AM   #1125
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I don't think anyone is suggesting it's an active agenda against AEW...
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:12 AM   #1126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I would be a bit more forgiving if there were visa issues, because that's administrative legal stuff way out of their hands. The OWE thing is weird, because I don't know why they would choose a small-time Canadian promotion over something going to get TNT exposure.
They still have a working relationship with AEW but likely will be working more often with SMASH in order to build up their North American exposure and minimize on-going visa issues from hurting those plans.

Someone like CIMA will be treated less harshly for visa stuff since he has a full-time contract with AEW unlike PAC. Same for Lucha Bros likely won't have any problems even though they will be splitting time with AAA since they have also full-time contracts in the US.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:25 AM   #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droford View Post
And clearly Trrump knew AEW was working with China so hes like, "fuck them they can't work with China if China won't work with me on Tariffs" and is trying to wreck their promotion because Vince McMahon paid him off to do it. Someone call The democrats to launch a conspiracy hearing in Congress
Plz no politics in the wrestling forum

Politics thread in casual often enough to keep me away from there
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:28 AM   #1128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I agree that there is no comparison to general audiences, or to whatever casual WWE audience there is, but we're talking about a hardcore wrestling crowd. The traditional "he's a star"/"he's not a star" metrics are kind of null and void with this audience at this point in time. PAC is someone that they should build as a star for whatever audience they hopefully grow.

It's not always about winning and losing when it comes to happiness. Moxley can make good money with AEW and probably get to cut his own promos and have a say over the direction of his own gimmick. And he probably will be treated as one of their biggest stars early out the gate. I don't have problems seeing him there at all.
True, but Ambrose/Moxley is that big time star to the hardcore fanbase/crowd also. My point being is AEW would be crazy not to hitch their horse to him if they got him.

Pac is a great hand to have, he is amazing in the ring, but nobody would be surprised that he isn't instantly booked in the top matches, whereas we would all be saying what the hell is AEW doing if they brought Mox in to job to like Christopher Daniels or Jimmy Havoc.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:01 AM   #1129
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I am truly excited to see Moxley and Havoc cut each other up, they need to have an Abudullah/Brody, or Cactus/Vader level rivalry. Just with lots more light tubes, thumb tacks, barbed wired and the like.
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Old 05-19-2019, 01:11 PM   #1130
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Originally Posted by xrodmuc316 View Post
True, but Ambrose/Moxley is that big time star to the hardcore fanbase/crowd also. My point being is AEW would be crazy not to hitch their horse to him if they got him.

Pac is a great hand to have, he is amazing in the ring, but nobody would be surprised that he isn't instantly booked in the top matches, whereas we would all be saying what the hell is AEW doing if they brought Mox in to job to like Christopher Daniels or Jimmy Havoc.
Don’t disagree with you on PAC, but I’m not sure I get where Mox coming in to lose to Daniels and Havoc comes from.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:06 PM   #1131
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ITV will apparently be showing an AEW: Before the Bell special or something of the like. Their programming is not restricted to ITV4.
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:46 PM   #1132
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Apparently the match with Page wasn't the issue, but rather an upcoming match with Omega in September.

Plan was for PAC to beat Hangman, lose the DG belt sometime before September, then lose to Omega.

However DG office now wants to keep the belt on PAC through september which fucks up AEW's booking.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:36 PM   #1133
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I don't really buy that. I mean, I'm sure that's the story, I just don't buy that as a good reason to pull the match. Just put PAC over and then don't do the Omega match?
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:51 PM   #1134
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I imagine their thought process is that they don’t want Hangman to job right away if it’s not leading to something for PAC.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:59 PM   #1135
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I...get that. I just don't like it.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:59 PM   #1136
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Exactly what I was thinking. Page is a full time guy. If they think he has a future, jobbing him to a guy who's going to be a one off doesn't do them any good.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:02 PM   #1137
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It's not the end of the road for Page if he loses though, lol. He can cut promos about how devastating a loss out the gate is when he has his sights set on championship glory. It can build to an eventual redemption match with PAC when the DG belt isn't involved.

I'm happy that they want wins and losses to matter, but this was always going to be the problem: taking that too rigidly and booking yourself into corners because you are too petrified to have guys take losses. You can always bounce them back.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:03 PM   #1138
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Just not there with them on this one. Them fucking around with their card has done more damage to my interest as a viewer than Hangman Page losing one fucking match.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:04 PM   #1139
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Like, they don't need to book Omega vs. PAC either. Just don't book the match.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:06 PM   #1140
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Just not there with them on this one. Them fucking around with their card has done more damage to my interest as a viewer than Hangman Page losing one fucking match.
The biggest issue is it seems this has nothing to do with Page himself, meaning he didn't refuse to do the job. The company not wanting to book him to lose, draw, win by DQ, or have a no contest to the point they would pull the match a week out is just poor management.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:00 PM   #1141
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The biggest issue is it seems this has nothing to do with Page himself, meaning he didn't refuse to do the job. The company not wanting to book him to lose, draw, win by DQ, or have a no contest to the point they would pull the match a week out is just poor management.
Oh, I don't put this on Page at all. Nor PAC. This is really AEW's fault, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:01 PM   #1142
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AEW is fine.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:15 PM   #1143
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
It's not the end of the road for Page if he loses though, lol. He can cut promos about how devastating a loss out the gate is when he has his sights set on championship glory. It can build to an eventual redemption match with PAC when the DG belt isn't involved.

I'm happy that they want wins and losses to matter, but this was always going to be the problem: taking that too rigidly and booking yourself into corners because you are too petrified to have guys take losses. You can always bounce them back.
Seems its a lot more of their long term plans being wrecked because of Dragon Gate and no assurances Dragon Gate wouldn't ever do this again with their talent in AEW.

They've made it clear in a bunch of interviews that they value long term planning to avoid the problems that plague WWE's Creative and want to avoid repeating TNA/Impact's problems when it came to botching the development of Styles as their top star.

Supposedly their creative mindset is a lot similar to Gedo, who is well known to plan things out as far out as a couple years in advance and then tweak things to keep those plans on course.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:25 PM   #1144
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I'm still not buying it. They just can't have PAC lose. Good? At some point he won't be Dragon Gate's champion and he can lose. They might even be able to get him under exclusive contract then.

Long-term planning is good, but this is just inflexible and lacks creativity. Cancelling a match in May because you can't put over someone in a particular match in September, even though it's not hyper-critical that be the scenario? This is just a mess to me.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:28 PM   #1145
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Imagine the shit WWE would get if it cancelled AJ Styles vs. Seth Rollins this month because they couldn't put Roman Reigns over Seth at SummerSlam because 2K don't want Seth losing big PPV matches since he's on their cover or whatever. People would be bitching non-stop.

AEW has a lot of good will because they present themselves as babyfaces and they're the other and we all need something else, but they can't be pulling this shit all the time because they've booked themselves into corners.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:30 PM   #1146
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FFS, just have PAC beat Page and then don't do Omega vs. PAC in September. Easy.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:45 PM   #1147
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Why do you think you need to tell them how to book a show when you have no idea what their plans are.

Stop playing fantasy booker for a product that hasn't aired. D o N will be just fine. People need to chill more & bitch less.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:49 PM   #1148
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Quote:
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Why do you think you need to tell them how to book a show when you have no idea what their plans are.

Stop playing fantasy booker for a product that hasn't aired. D o N will be just fine. People need to chill more & bitch less.
Because they advertised something they aren't delivering and now I'm not going to give them my money. I'm the dude who started this thread with all the optimism I could muster. I want something different. This is WWE-type shit.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:57 PM   #1149
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Apparently PAC vs Hangman happened last night at a show in England. PAC got himself DQed and then cut a promo saying he isn’t going to AEW.

If it’s not a work already, they could make a decent angle out of it.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:54 AM   #1150
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I'd be fine if they turned it into an angle and actually delivered some stuff out of this.
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Old 05-21-2019, 07:50 PM   #1151
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:54 PM   #1152
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Nice! I am a fan and glad he landed in AEW, hopefully he gets over again, dude deserves a good run.
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:58 PM   #1153
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Not surprising seeing Shawn Spears in. He's hardly a huge signing, but the perception is that he was misused by WWE. It does make AEW's general "we're not going to take everyone" stance on former WWE talent pretty silly, but that was always the case. It's a good spot for him.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:04 PM   #1154
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He's perfect for them honestly. Solid, over midcard talent that can help get talent over and be a useful hand. As long as they don't push every ex wwe guy to the moon, picking up the lesser guys here and there are fine.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:06 PM   #1155
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Eh, I wouldn’t say AEW is at TNA level yet in terms of signing WWE castoffs. WWE haven’t released all that many people in the past few years.

If they sign TJP or some shit then yeah, that’s a problem.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:58 PM   #1156
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He just opened his school too in Florida. So now AEW has more connections to things.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:09 PM   #1157
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AEW isn't taking cast offs. Its taking defectors. Thats what makes this new territory. Highly talented performers in their prime back by real money and a seasoned creative.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:37 PM   #1158
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When AEW starts signing "WWE rejects" solely to have them hog the spotlight or be put over at the expense of their own home grown and/or developed stars, then people can start to become worried over AEW's future.

Impact's problem was never them signing stars released by WWE but their constant habit of tossing their own stars to the side just to cater to whatever was the newest shinny toy dumped by WWE or old star(s) looking for an easy paycheck. Joe's star status in Impact took a big hit when they signed Angle and Hogan's notoriety with hogging the spotlight once caused a TNA title change to be delayed because he refused to be outshined at an event.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:41 PM   #1159
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Curious about how they will deal with the lower card guys if they have true win/loss records. Like if someone has a 5-25 record or something, going to "look bad"... I guess they could always just have them have a winning streak if they want to give them a push.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:51 PM   #1160
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Curious about how they will deal with the lower card guys if they have true win/loss records. Like if someone has a 5-25 record or something, going to "look bad"... I guess they could always just have them have a winning streak if they want to give them a push.
I miss the days when you could say you had some matches in a made uo town and everyone went with it
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