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Old 06-18-2016, 01:29 AM   #6201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droford View Post
The Jays should have saved runs for the next 2 games
Jays only really needed one in this series. Obviously the goal is to win the series, but they've put a dent in Baltimore with what they've done so far. Obviously if Baltimore wins this series it's great for them, but moreorless their best outcome is to go 4-3 against the jays in this last stretch of games they've had.
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Old 06-18-2016, 01:29 AM   #6202
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used obviously a coupe times there, obviously.
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Old 06-18-2016, 01:41 AM   #6203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
Maybe you need more of a breakdown. A pitcher is on every defensive play. If a pitcher has a bad game then multiple runs are given up and it's probably going to be a lose. If a everyday player has a bad game then they go 0 for 4 and might post an error. Those stats will not doom the game for the team.
A pitcher is not in on every defensive play. Once the ball is in play the pitcher is largely uninvolved.

Unproductive players doom the game. If your 2 or 3 hitters are pulling 0fers they're killing your chances to win.

In that one night, yes, the pitcher has a direct impact in the game he's throwing. But pitchers are not "more valuable" than position players. Position players create offense and score runs. The pitcher does not. It's a working relationship. Some pitchers are more valuable than everyday players and vice versa.

To try and blanket statement it is silly. Are you saying Mike Trout is not the Angels most valuable player? Their most important player?
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Old 06-18-2016, 07:10 AM   #6204
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I forgot you are unable to read. On the day pitcher A is pitching and Everyday Player B is playing, player A has more of am effect/is more valuable than player B. And player B is only on defensive plays that involve him and most are routine.

You just said if the number 2 AND 3 hitters are pulling 0ferz then the chances of winning is slim. If the pitcher (1 player) throws a terrible game then that game is doomer. 1 to 2 players. This averages out because the starting pitcher only plays 1 of every 5 games. To suspend a starting pitcher per starts is retarded due to everything I said.
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Old 06-18-2016, 07:27 AM   #6205
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Maybe you will understand this way.

Game 7 of the World Series. Arrieta is pitching and Trout is playing. Who is going to effect the game more and cause their team to win/lose the last game of the season?
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Old 06-18-2016, 09:56 AM   #6206
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If your starting pitchers can't keep you in the game, your every day players can hit you 6 thousand homeruns and you aren't going to win.
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Old 06-18-2016, 09:58 AM   #6207
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as proven by mike wright lastnight. They were putting pressure on sanchez who bent but never broke... wright fell apart and the jays took over.
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:00 AM   #6208
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But then I guess you look at Felix Hernandez during the lean years with Seattle and wasn't he having an era nearly under 2 and finishing the season below .500 cuz the rest of the team was so shit.

I say every day players and pitching staff are of equal value. I think personally, to have a competitive team, your hitting, starting pitch and relief pitching need to have at least 2/3 elements working for them.
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:39 AM   #6209
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That was an entire team hitting like shit for him. Not just 1 player. It took the entire team to suck that bad to cause him to lose games.

Overall, they are equal in value because they play everyday.
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:41 AM   #6210
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Which is why they should all be suspended the same amount of games instead of making a starter pitcher lose 5 starts instead of 5 games.
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:49 AM   #6211
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being suspended for 2 starts would have sufficed though, so "14 games" to ensure it.
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:53 AM   #6212
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5 starts is 5 games for a starting pitcher. He's not involved in the other 4 games he'd be suspended for. How is it fair to impact a team losing an everyday player for 5 games but losing a starting pitcher for one? That makes no sense.

And no. A pitcher is not more valuable than the players behind him. Dale said it best that they're equal in value, though that's going to vary based on the talent of the player. Now you're saying they're equal value, after trying to say pitchers are more valuable. Which one is it?
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:53 AM   #6213
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And I'm still wondering if you think Mike Trout is not the most valuable player on his team.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:00 AM   #6214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastardly Dale Newstead View Post
being suspended for 2 starts would have sufficed though, so "14 games" to ensure it.
That makes sense. But having a pitcher miss 5 starts because an everyday player misses 5 is stupid.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:03 AM   #6215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 View Post
5 starts is 5 games for a starting pitcher. He's not involved in the other 4 games he'd be suspended for. How is it fair to impact a team losing an everyday player for 5 games but losing a starting pitcher for one? That makes no sense.

And no. A pitcher is not more valuable than the players behind him. Dale said it best that they're equal in value, though that's going to vary based on the talent of the player. Now you're saying they're equal value, after trying to say pitchers are more valuable. Which one is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Rey 2.0 View Post
And I'm still wondering if you think Mike Trout is not the most valuable player on his team.
He said an entire team has to suck ass to make Fenix lose games. Not 1 player.

I never said Trout was not the most valuable. You are 100% missing the point.

Seriously, read what I am saying. On the given day a starting pitcher is starting he is more valuable. Over a 5 day period they are equal since the starting pitcher only pitches once.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:08 AM   #6216
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Pitchers are more valuable than position players. This is your argument. And it's not true.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:11 AM   #6217
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I get what you're saying in theory. The starting pitcher does have a larger impact on the outcome of the game. Obviously. But it doesn't mean they're more valuable. Those are two different things.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:22 AM   #6218
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The argument is having a starting pitcher miss 5 starts instead of 5 games is stupid because of 5he impact they have on the game.

You are just changing the argument because you do not like a certain word I used.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:41 AM   #6219
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I'm not arguing based in what I do or don't like. Your word choice was poor. You said "more valuable" and that's not true. Bigger impact? Sure. Bigger role? Sure. More valuable? No. That's a blanket statement that doesn't work. Every player provides a different amount of value.

A position player missing 5 games and being replaced with a bench player is not the same as a starter missing one game. The team losing the suspended player is not receiving the same punishment.

The Angels would hurt more losing Mike Trout for 5 games than they would losing Garrett Richards for one start/game. Because Trout is their most valuable player. Richards, and his 4 starting brethren, are not.

To which I ask, who is losing out more, Baltimore for losing their best player for a week or Kansas City losing their 3rd or 4th best pitcher for one game?
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:02 PM   #6220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien View Post
Any normal pitcher has more of an effect on the game than any starting normal everyday player. So yes they are.
You keep bringing up Trout. Not me. I am talking players of equal talent. You want to talk about a superstar and a average player.
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Old 06-18-2016, 12:16 PM   #6221
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Of course because the suspension in question involves a superstar (Machado) and an average player (Ventura).

I've already conceded that I'm theory you're not wrong but given the context the suspensions are not equal.
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Old 06-18-2016, 06:09 PM   #6222
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2 runs for the Blue Jays so far thru 7. Told you
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Old 06-18-2016, 06:10 PM   #6223
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Also Ventura got his suspension recuced to 8 games and start it tonight..Manny should at least get hus 4 to 3.
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Old 06-18-2016, 08:21 PM   #6224
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Update Manny took his suspension and starts tomorrow
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Old 06-19-2016, 09:21 AM   #6225
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Jays definitely had their chances yesterday.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:05 PM   #6226
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Jays struggle against Gallardo (Whom I wish they picked up in the offseason), and Baltimore's bullpen is very good. Jays need to strike early for the most part to get to Baltimore.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #6227
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OFFICIAL SUPERWIN LIST

4/3: Francisco Liriano
4/6: Kenta Maeda
4/14: Jason Hammel
4/18: John Lackey
4/19: Jason Hammel (2)
4/22: Jeff Samardzija
5/1: Clayton Kershaw
5/3: Jake Arrieta
5/11: Noah Syndergaard
5/15: Jose Fernandez
5/15: Dan Straily
5/18: Travis Wood
5/21: Matt Cain
5/22: Madison Bumgarner
5/22: Jerad Eickoff
5/24: Jason Hammel (3)
5/24: Jake Odorizzi
6/2: Madison Bumgarner (2)
6/9: Jorge De La Rosa
6/11: Tanner Roark
6/18: Chris Hatcher
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:39 PM   #6228
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As much as I hate to say it I'm quite certain that the Mets' hopes of winning the division are already fucking dead.

I knew the Nats would be a good team but I never expected them to be THIS good. Yes there is plenty of season to go but since the six division format was implemented over 90% of teams with a 6+ game lead in their division at this point in the season have held on to win it. That bodes well for the Nats, Giants, and Rangers who are all above that threshold. Oh and of course the Cubs who had theirs in the bag a long time ago.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:45 PM   #6229
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And really as I look at the Mets' schedule, the only bad team they play between now and the break is the Braves. And they just lost their series to them this weekend with a 4 game set against them next weekend. They also have the Royals, Cubs, Marlins, and 7 games against the Nats before the ASG. If they play the way they have lately through that stretch they could be sub-.500 by the break.

They have looked like ass for the better part of a month and a half and are only 5 games over .500 because of their hot end to April. The starting pitching is still there minus Harvey but they can't hit anything other than solo HRs, they have no speed, and their bullpen is coming back to earth after a great start.

In the two Wild Card era they should stay in the mix for a postseason spot most of the season even if their recent slide continues but there is no reason at all to expect a Cespedes-esque trade this year. They gutted the farm to go for it all last year and unfortunately they fell just short of a title. It was a worthwhile gamble because 2015 was such an incredible ride, but there is a very real chance that this group of pitchers won't get to October again. Not with the offense they have now they won't.
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:21 PM   #6230
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Red Sox place Rusney Castillo on waivers. Who's due $10.5 mil. this season and about $50 mil. going to 2019. Looking like nobody's gonna grab him.

Yankees are off the hook if Boston just gives up on him. Doesn't make the Kei Igawa signing look so bad.
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:30 PM   #6231
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Dale Scott got smashed in the balls and had to leave the game, game is currently delayed while Dan Ayasonia (sp) puts on the home plate ump gear.
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Old 06-19-2016, 03:53 PM   #6232
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Jays falling apart
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Old 06-19-2016, 04:06 PM   #6233
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Meh. Stroman was pathetic. Not much you can do when your starting pitcher comes in and gives up 7 runs and can't get through the third inning.
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Old 06-19-2016, 04:17 PM   #6234
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Yeah, by "Jays" I mostly meant Stroman....
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Old 06-19-2016, 04:26 PM   #6235
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The East has solved him..... he's going to have to make some adjustments [/buckmartinezpattabler]
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Old 06-19-2016, 06:18 PM   #6236
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I hate to say I told you so lol
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Old 06-19-2016, 06:47 PM   #6237
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Jays put up 6 runs today.
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Old 06-19-2016, 06:49 PM   #6238
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Quote:
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I hate to say I told you so lol
I sincerely doubt that, good sir.
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Old 06-19-2016, 06:51 PM   #6239
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Never really understand opposing team fans who are naturally antagonistic and are unable to look at the game objectively. What did you tell us?

Jays pitching today cost them, not any inability to get runs. Baltimore certainly had something to do with that, given that 1-9 in the order can do damage. You aren't winning many games when your starter gets shelled for 7 runs before the end of the fourth inning.

Looking forward to the next time they play tho. Been a good season series so far, and not much bullshit between the 2 teams.
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Old 06-19-2016, 07:07 PM   #6240
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Quote:
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Jays put up 6 runs today.
Wasnt enough though..
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