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Old 04-30-2022, 08:39 AM   #681
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Apparently Bivens signed an extension to his last contract but had rejected a new deal. Same for Dakota. Surprised they never even tried her on the main roster. Could have even kept her with Raquel Gonzalez Rodriguez and boosted the Womens tag division to 2 teams. Bivens could have been great with any number of talents, my first thought was pair him with “Zero Peesence” Gable Stevenson but I guess he’s a long way off yet. Who else on the main roster packs personality/charisma/presence? Ricochet? Put him with Lashley to counteract MVP with Omos? Dunno. The dude was with the company 3 years and only recently made TV, guess he had enough.
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Old 04-30-2022, 08:49 AM   #682
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Crazy how good NXT was at one time under Triple H's leadership. I mean it really changed wrestling on a main stream level. It feels forgotten now, at least by me. I'll never forget NXT selling out arean's for Takeover's and those shows being absolutely nuts. Nakamura vs Zayn ... my lord.

I guess it wasn't "sustainable" not really prepping guys to work for Vince, at all. But still, it was a huge thing, and aside from some booking differences AEW isn't all that much different. All of these companies that are blooming in the last 5 years are pretty much extensions of ROH. Evolve and PWG were evolutions of ROH in ways, the talent went between all of those companies. And then that talent was hired for NXT, and then for AEW.

I can't really watch NXT right now they really need to tour.
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Old 04-30-2022, 06:44 PM   #683
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everything is the child of something. everything Gabe learned that allowed him to craft RoH he learned working under Heyman in ECW. we're all someones child.
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Old 04-30-2022, 07:15 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by Destor View Post
everything is the child of something. everything Gabe learned that allowed him to craft RoH he learned working under Heyman in ECW. we're all someones child.
Not Phil, who filed legal protection against his own Mother

https://www.tmz.com/2013/06/26/cm-pu...-mother-court/
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Old 04-30-2022, 07:24 PM   #685
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Not Phil, who filed legal protection against his own Mother

https://www.tmz.com/2013/06/26/cm-pu...-mother-court/
I fail to see the humor or a valid point.
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Old 04-30-2022, 07:46 PM   #686
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I fail to see the humor or a valid point.
Ummm, Phil sucks as a human
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Old 04-30-2022, 08:07 PM   #687
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Ummm, Phil sucks as a human
What’s humorous about that? We don’t know enough about their relationship either.
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Old 04-30-2022, 09:20 PM   #688
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Don’t bother using logic with him. It’s a waste of your time.
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Old 05-01-2022, 05:14 AM   #689
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I fail to see the humor or a valid point.
What is the normal reaction to an xrod post.
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Old 05-01-2022, 01:03 PM   #690
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Old 05-01-2022, 01:58 PM   #691
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None of those releases seem crazy at all. Dakota Kai could have maybe been a solid hand, but I didn’t find her particularly interesting. And who knows what circumstances were behind it?

Harland was probably the drizzling shits, plus he seemed to get heat.

Malcolm Bivens was lucky to have a job as a manager in modern WWE, really.
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Old 05-02-2022, 02:06 AM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Crazy how good NXT was at one time under Triple H's leadership. I mean it really changed wrestling on a main stream level. It feels forgotten now, at least by me. I'll never forget NXT selling out arean's for Takeover's and those shows being absolutely nuts. Nakamura vs Zayn ... my lord.

I guess it wasn't "sustainable" not really prepping guys to work for Vince, at all. But still, it was a huge thing, and aside from some booking differences AEW isn't all that much different. All of these companies that are blooming in the last 5 years are pretty much extensions of ROH. Evolve and PWG were evolutions of ROH in ways, the talent went between all of those companies. And then that talent was hired for NXT, and then for AEW.

I can't really watch NXT right now they really need to tour.
I still believe the initial plan was for HHH to be obstensably running shit while Vince was busy with the XFL. All of "Hunter's kids" would have been called up and put in prominent spots, so when Vince came back to take a look, they wouldve been things he wasn't particularly high on (mainly shorter in height), but there would have been a roster of varied talent led by talent that had been fostered and pushed in NXT. He can't bitch about it if it's already in place and working, with popularity and merch sales. Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Instead, Vince folded the tents of XFL well beforehand (in something wildly unforseen), then immediately went "what the fuck?!" about things like size, and proceded to put stupid touches on callups like name changes or tennis skirts or Demolition masks... and instead of taking the good shit from NXT and introducing it to the main roster, they're going the other shit by infecting NXT with the more garbage aspects of the main roster.
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Old 05-02-2022, 02:14 AM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post

Malcolm Bivens was lucky to have a job as a manager in modern WWE, really.
I was surprised he was even there ever, given how much Vince apparently hates the idea of managers anymore, Paul Heyman excepted... possibly begrudingly since he's attached to Brock personally. I'm honestly even surprised that MVP has been doing mouthpiece and corner work for folks for the last few years. And I don't mean that as a knock on MVP.

Remember, this is a company that actively discourages using managers and tag team wrestling as a division, and has about a two decade track record at this point that proves exactly how much by deeds instead of words. I'm willing to bet if young prime versions of Jim Cornette, Jimmy Hart, or even Bobby Heenan existed now in their capacity as manager, they would not likely find a home in WWE and end up as post 'Mania release fodder.
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Old 05-02-2022, 02:44 AM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
I still believe the initial plan was for HHH to be obstensably running shit while Vince was busy with the XFL. All of "Hunter's kids" would have been called up and put in prominent spots, so when Vince came back to take a look, they wouldve been things he wasn't particularly high on (mainly shorter in height), but there would have been a roster of varied talent led by talent that had been fostered and pushed in NXT. He can't bitch about it if it's already in place and working, with popularity and merch sales. Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Instead, Vince folded the tents of XFL well beforehand (in something wildly unforseen), then immediately went "what the fuck?!" about things like size, and proceded to put stupid touches on callups like name changes or tennis skirts or Demolition masks... and instead of taking the good shit from NXT and introducing it to the main roster, they're going the other shit by infecting NXT with the more garbage aspects of the main roster.
I said it before, but NXT's failure is solely Vince McMahon's fault. Triple H got at least 20 different acts ready to be big stars in WWE, and Vince went out of his way to bury each and every one of them.

He astonishingly went out of his way to push the few people that came from NXT who had little to no impact on the black and gold brand whatsoever. Alexa Bliss was a manager for almost her entire NXT run. Ditto for Carmella. Elias was just a weird outlier that Graves would trash on commentary. Mojo got a few start/stop pushes, way more of a push than anybody expected considering he was jobbing to the likes of Bull Dempsey. Xavier Woods didn't do much of anything in NXT. Then of course you have guys like Strowman and Omos who were in developmental but never even made it to having a match. He actually pushed Jackson Ryker for a while
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Old 05-02-2022, 05:42 AM   #695
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Jackson Ryker
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Old 05-02-2022, 05:43 AM   #696
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It’s mental that more effort was put into pushing him than a dozen other names.
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Old 05-02-2022, 08:41 AM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Guycott View Post
I was surprised he was even there ever, given how much Vince apparently hates the idea of managers anymore, Paul Heyman excepted... possibly begrudingly since he's attached to Brock personally. I'm honestly even surprised that MVP has been doing mouthpiece and corner work for folks for the last few years. And I don't mean that as a knock on MVP.

Remember, this is a company that actively discourages using managers and tag team wrestling as a division, and has about a two decade track record at this point that proves exactly how much by deeds instead of words. I'm willing to bet if young prime versions of Jim Cornette, Jimmy Hart, or even Bobby Heenan existed now in their capacity as manager, they would not likely find a home in WWE and end up as post 'Mania release fodder.
I don’t think Vince is against using managers and tag teams. I mean, WWE has better managers and a better tag division than their nearest rival, easily. But I’m not sure how hungry they would be to get new people into that role when they’ve got a whole bunch of talkers already up there. But I guess it was his choice to leave, so good for him.
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Old 05-02-2022, 11:18 AM   #698
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There’s definitely a “sweet spot” when it comes to things like managers. AEW has far too many to the point where more people have them than don’t and so it doesn’t feel special. Apparently they pitched him pairing with Omos and he turned it down. Not sure what his next step would be, another manager in AEW? He’s a standup comedian too so maybe he wants to concentrate on that.
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Old 05-02-2022, 03:32 PM   #699
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It’s possible. He seems to go back a fair way with ROH and EVOLVE, so it’s possible he’s looking to take a job with either ROH or doing something with Gabe? Or he’s just ready to quit.

It would have made the most sense to train him up as a referee or commentator, in my opinion.
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Old 05-02-2022, 06:38 PM   #700
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RODERICK STRONG HAS CENA NUFF

(and requested his release)
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Old 05-02-2022, 06:59 PM   #701
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RODERICK STRONG HAS CENA NUFF

(and requested his release)
an wwe fire everyone around him but want to keep him for some reason.
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Old 05-02-2022, 07:02 PM   #702
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Its possible they wanted to keep him as a coach.
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Old 05-02-2022, 08:08 PM   #703
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yeah even the coaches are leaving
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Old 05-02-2022, 08:22 PM   #704
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Old 05-02-2022, 09:12 PM   #705
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Roderick Strong looks like a Sitcom Dad 10 years after the show was cancelled.
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:44 AM   #706
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He actually pushed Jackson Ryker for a while
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Jackson Ryker
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It’s mental that more effort was put into pushing him than a dozen other names.
And on top of that, he was part of a trio where the other two guys got purged.

Forgotten Sons pretty much forgotten, but it could have been worse. Could have been like Hit Row. I would say that's the worst, if not for the perpetual implosion of The Diamond Mine... the only constant there is Roddy, and that stable can never get off the ground.
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Old 05-03-2022, 01:17 AM   #707
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nerfect View Post
I don’t think Vince is against using managers and tag teams. I mean, WWE has better managers and a better tag division than their nearest rival, easily. But I’m not sure how hungry they would be to get new people into that role when they’ve got a whole bunch of talkers already up there. But I guess it was his choice to leave, so good for him.
Do they, though? Do they really?

Besides Heyman and MVP, who was the last manager - actual manager, not just an injured mouthpiece (David Otunga) or a valet with a mic who eventually gets in the ring anyway (Zelina) - to get any actual serious time? Last one I remember is Dutch Mantell/Zeb Coulter. Paul Ellering was back for enough time to build up Authors of Pain in NXT, but then when they got called up, he was back on the unemployment line, and they got split up and shitcanned. The only other one I can think of outside of that was Abraham Washington, and he got himself fired for mentioning the one name he wasn't allowed to on Twitter (Linda).

Tag teams are worse. Most established actual "teams" that gel or work as teams get split up for no reason or treated as jokes. Then, they make teams out of whole cloth from two thrown together singles. The one of the few true teams still around right now are the Usos, and part of that is being auxillary to Roman. If they literally werent Bloodline, they'd be on the breadline, or chilling somewhere in catering next to War Machine The Viking Experience The Viking Raiders.

They have two sets of tag team champions (not counting NXT or the women's belts, because those are different difficulties), but they're mostly ornamental. The "division" itself reminds me of when Gregory Helms was the Cruiserweight Champion when there was almost nothing on the roster but "heavyweights", or when AJ Lee was the Diva's Champ with no other legit full-time wrestling ladies on the card except Nattie, and she pretty much had to carry matches against swimsuit models and "reality tv stars". There are no more Road Warriors, British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain, Demoliton, etc., etc., and the few that show up get shit on or disappeared. American Alpha had potential, but again, not only were there few other actual tag teams around to make them look good, but Vince was super horny to make Jason Jordan the next big breakout singles superstar and was super eager to split them ASAP.

I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell. And I'm convinced if they go back and take the money, they'll eventually swing back around to that line of thinking. They only want them back to deny AEW the buzz. Just like the deal with Gallows & Anderson. Just like when they "showed interest" in the Young Bucks.

They'll dabble every once in awhile. They may put together some sort of [insert wrestler name] Tournament for Tag Team Supremacy or hire some guy who looks like they'll become the new Harvey Whippleman or Paul E. Dangerously, but then both of those ideas will last for a number of weeks, then begin to fade into obscurity, and the idea of the next great tag team renissanse or prodigous mouthpice will be shelved for another few years. They never stick with it, and they seemingly never will. I would assume on the manager front Bivins saw the writing on the wall.
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Old 05-03-2022, 02:56 AM   #708
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Do they, though? Do they really?

Besides Heyman and MVP, who was the last manager - actual manager, not just an injured mouthpiece (David Otunga) or a valet with a mic who eventually gets in the ring anyway (Zelina) - to get any actual serious time? Last one I remember is Dutch Mantell/Zeb Coulter. Paul Ellering was back for enough time to build up Authors of Pain in NXT, but then when they got called up, he was back on the unemployment line, and they got split up and shitcanned. The only other one I can think of outside of that was Abraham Washington, and he got himself fired for mentioning the one name he wasn't allowed to on Twitter (Linda).

Tag teams are worse. Most established actual "teams" that gel or work as teams get split up for no reason or treated as jokes. Then, they make teams out of whole cloth from two thrown together singles. The one of the few true teams still around right now are the Usos, and part of that is being auxillary to Roman. If they literally werent Bloodline, they'd be on the breadline, or chilling somewhere in catering next to War Machine The Viking Experience The Viking Raiders.

They have two sets of tag team champions (not counting NXT or the women's belts, because those are different difficulties), but they're mostly ornamental. The "division" itself reminds me of when Gregory Helms was the Cruiserweight Champion when there was almost nothing on the roster but "heavyweights", or when AJ Lee was the Diva's Champ with no other legit full-time wrestling ladies on the card except Nattie, and she pretty much had to carry matches against swimsuit models and "reality tv stars". There are no more Road Warriors, British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain, Demoliton, etc., etc., and the few that show up get shit on or disappeared. American Alpha had potential, but again, not only were there few other actual tag teams around to make them look good, but Vince was super horny to make Jason Jordan the next big breakout singles superstar and was super eager to split them ASAP.

I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell. And I'm convinced if they go back and take the money, they'll eventually swing back around to that line of thinking. They only want them back to deny AEW the buzz. Just like the deal with Gallows & Anderson. Just like when they "showed interest" in the Young Bucks.

They'll dabble every once in awhile. They may put together some sort of [insert wrestler name] Tournament for Tag Team Supremacy or hire some guy who looks like they'll become the new Harvey Whippleman or Paul E. Dangerously, but then both of those ideas will last for a number of weeks, then begin to fade into obscurity, and the idea of the next great tag team renissanse or prodigous mouthpice will be shelved for another few years. They never stick with it, and they seemingly never will. I would assume on the manager front Bivins saw the writing on the wall.
yep poor stone and la knight both managers
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:51 AM   #709
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Lmaooooo at the idea at WWE having a better tag team division than AEW. Fucking laughable take.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:56 AM   #710
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I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell.


That was how they were using FTR. Accidentally putting Icy Hot on their balls. Just insane. Lol
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:03 AM   #711
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and they were shaving the backs of one another as well. brilliant.
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:19 AM   #712
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Lmaooooo at the idea at WWE having a better tag team division than AEW. Fucking laughable take.
impact and nwa have better tag teams then the wwe
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:09 PM   #713
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THAN. THAN. FUCKIG THAN.
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:09 PM   #714
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Sorry about that little outburst.
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:10 PM   #715
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THAN. THAN. FUCKIG THAN.
*fucking
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:13 PM   #716
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I can’t blame Roddy. When UE split he was the “other guy” when Cole and O’Reilly was feuding. Then they launched Diamond Mine, I think mostly as a vehicle for the Creed Brothers (which is fine), let that one guy go, then Bivens. Apparently they approached him with a name change. Where does the dude fit on the Main Roster? Fine as part of a group but as a solo act?
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:13 PM   #717
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*fucking
Sorry. Clearly too worked up.
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Old 05-03-2022, 12:15 PM   #718
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I can’t blame Roddy. When UE split he was the “other guy” when Cole and O’Reilly was feuding. Then they launched Diamond Mine, I think mostly as a vehicle for the Creed Brothers (which is fine), let that one guy go, then Bivens. Apparently they approached him with a name change. Where does the dude fit on the Main Roster? Fine as part of a group but as a solo act?
he couldn't even hang as a solo act in NXT so his main roster chances were pretty damn slim imo
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Old 05-03-2022, 01:50 PM   #719
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Well yeah. He’s a tag/stable guy if ever I saw one.
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Old 05-03-2022, 03:18 PM   #720
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Do they, though? Do they really?

Besides Heyman and MVP, who was the last manager - actual manager, not just an injured mouthpiece (David Otunga) or a valet with a mic who eventually gets in the ring anyway (Zelina) - to get any actual serious time? Last one I remember is Dutch Mantell/Zeb Coulter. Paul Ellering was back for enough time to build up Authors of Pain in NXT, but then when they got called up, he was back on the unemployment line, and they got split up and shitcanned. The only other one I can think of outside of that was Abraham Washington, and he got himself fired for mentioning the one name he wasn't allowed to on Twitter (Linda).

Tag teams are worse. Most established actual "teams" that gel or work as teams get split up for no reason or treated as jokes. Then, they make teams out of whole cloth from two thrown together singles. The one of the few true teams still around right now are the Usos, and part of that is being auxillary to Roman. If they literally werent Bloodline, they'd be on the breadline, or chilling somewhere in catering next to War Machine The Viking Experience The Viking Raiders.

They have two sets of tag team champions (not counting NXT or the women's belts, because those are different difficulties), but they're mostly ornamental. The "division" itself reminds me of when Gregory Helms was the Cruiserweight Champion when there was almost nothing on the roster but "heavyweights", or when AJ Lee was the Diva's Champ with no other legit full-time wrestling ladies on the card except Nattie, and she pretty much had to carry matches against swimsuit models and "reality tv stars". There are no more Road Warriors, British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain, Demoliton, etc., etc., and the few that show up get shit on or disappeared. American Alpha had potential, but again, not only were there few other actual tag teams around to make them look good, but Vince was super horny to make Jason Jordan the next big breakout singles superstar and was super eager to split them ASAP.

I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell. And I'm convinced if they go back and take the money, they'll eventually swing back around to that line of thinking. They only want them back to deny AEW the buzz. Just like the deal with Gallows & Anderson. Just like when they "showed interest" in the Young Bucks.

They'll dabble every once in awhile. They may put together some sort of [insert wrestler name] Tournament for Tag Team Supremacy or hire some guy who looks like they'll become the new Harvey Whippleman or Paul E. Dangerously, but then both of those ideas will last for a number of weeks, then begin to fade into obscurity, and the idea of the next great tag team renissanse or prodigous mouthpice will be shelved for another few years. They never stick with it, and they seemingly never will. I would assume on the manager front Bivins saw the writing on the wall.
Heyman and MVP are where you could stop. I didn’t say the most managers, I said the best managers. No one touches them.

The Usos have been on the main roster for 12 years now. The New Day have been together for 8. The Street Profits for 6. The longevity argument is an outdated one. Splitting up teams wouldn’t negate the argument that WWE have a good division anyway.

Right now they’ve got aforementioned teams, RKBro, Alpha fucking Academy, The Mysterios, Ziggler & Roode, and the ability to put a bunch of other guys into the mix that currently aren’t cycled in (Edge & Priest, Gunther & Kaiser, Styles & Balor). It’s just an antiquated argument that they don’t have the teams available to produce top quality tag team stuff. It’s been the highlight on Raw.

This is probably the strongest the division has ever been since The Hardys, E&C, The Dudleys, APA, Too Cool, Radicalz days. And I can’t think of another time where it was more important in the context of the show. RKBro and The Usos are just about to headline a PPV.

I’ve also read that RKBro are MASSIVE merch movers for them. Hence why they don’t break them up. But the team has gotten over and worked. To say they aren’t one of the most important acts there right now is just absurd.

Now compare that to AEW. Do Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus compare as champs to either WWE team? No. Are any of the teams true main event acts? No. They’ve got FTR, who are outstanding, but booked so terribly by the company. They’ve got alien belts no one cares about and have had to build up a reputation outside the show to get over enough to stand out.

WWE had them in the first place, lol. WWE wants them now? They hired them anyway. FTR quit. Their greatness was well known before any AEW run.

The anti-WWE lens skewers everything, and it tends to fall back on antiquated arguments and internet tropes that don’t hold true under examination.
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